I find it strange

[Steve#4]

That clubs hold trials for juniors, and pay fees for the following year straight after this year finishes....

My club does the same(a month after at least) because every other Joe does so we are no better.

Why do we do this?.....I have been researching some of the larger clubs in Brisbane and their trials start in Jan/Feb...

I also notice they try to keep fees as low as possible by parents buying shorts, socks, pads and boots but shirts supplied on game day, the way it used to be....Fees are around $300 to play then parents decide what apparel they want.

Me I think this is the way to go but I understand to be a Socceroo it is important you look good and how you play is a close second.....Clubs always talk about grass roots but it is them I think that need to investigate how to get back to this point.

Thoughts????

[Željko Jurin]

Who decides what attire your club provides the kids, and the fee structure at your club ? ...Just do it

PS .... Toros were free weren't they ?

[rossonero]

toros was free, but u had to buy your home and away kit, tracksuit, bag and pay for the ffsa rego fee....on top of that you played on unmarked pitch, kids had to put up their own nets and coached by .............

[B29]

$300 to play - that's way too cheap - no wonder Queensland don't produce any top players - you can't possibly develop players for any less than $800 - charging that much at least is what makes SA such a powerhouse in junior development

[fossil]

$300 to play - that's way too cheap - no wonder Queensland don't produce any top players - you can't possibly develop players for any less than $800 - charging that much at least is what makes SA such a powerhouse in junior development

$12,800 per team or $128,000 if you have 10 teams per year seams pretty good too! if the council is suppling the grounds etc and most coaches do it for free now put up a real comment on who's getting what and where in SA and player development isn't equal at all clubs.

[paul merson]

That clubs hold trials for juniors, and pay fees for the following year straight after this year finishes....

My club does the same(a month after at least) because every other Joe does so we are no better.

Why do we do this?.....I have been researching some of the larger clubs in Brisbane and their trials start in Jan/Feb...

I also notice they try to keep fees as low as possible by parents buying shorts, socks, pads and boots but shirts supplied on game day, the way it used to be....Fees are around $300 to play then parents decide what apparel they want.

Me I think this is the way to go but I understand to be a Socceroo it is important you look good and how you play is a close second.....Clubs always talk about grass roots but it is them I think that need to investigate how to get back to this point.

Thoughts????

The whole trials straight after the season surprised me too when I first found out about them, I suppose thats clubs all just trying to get in first and kniow in advance what players they have to work with come preseason, so work starts straight on their squad I suppose, as for paying fees up front, I suppose it locks players in, again its knowing what youre having to work with come preseason.

[mrrombold]

$300 to play - that's way too cheap - no wonder Queensland don't produce any top players - you can't possibly develop players for any less than $800 - charging that much at least is what makes SA such a powerhouse in junior development

I think it just spells it out really. They can obviously cover their running costs for $300 then you assume that they are still paying players. Either there clubs are marketing masters or we are paying players far too much. Can't wait to here the same old crap about junior fees not going into senior players pockets. 10 teams at $800 about 120K, salary cap 90K. But juniors don't fund seniors. "Yeh right".

[paul merson]

$300 to play - that's way too cheap - no wonder Queensland don't produce any top players - you can't possibly develop players for any less than $800 - charging that much at least is what makes SA such a powerhouse in junior development

I think it just spells it out really. They can obviously cover their running costs for $300 then you assume that they are still paying players. Either there clubs are marketing masters or we are paying players far too much. Can't wait to here the same old crap about junior fees not going into senior players pockets. 10 teams at $800 about 120K, salary cap 90K. But juniors don't fund seniors. "Yeh right".

So where does all of senior sponrship money go then?

[regangrandson]

$300 to play - that's way too cheap - no wonder Queensland don't produce any top players - you can't possibly develop players for any less than $800 - charging that much at least is what makes SA such a powerhouse in junior development

I think it just spells it out really. They can obviously cover their running costs for $300 then you assume that they are still paying players. Either there clubs are marketing masters or we are paying players far too much. Can't wait to here the same old crap about junior fees not going into senior players pockets. 10 teams at $800 about 120K, salary cap 90K. But juniors don't fund seniors. "Yeh right".

So where does all of senior sponrship money go then?

Salary cap is way to high. Cut it in half. 10 team club could reduce fees by $300.00 per kid, older players will stay in the game for less money and the sport or they will give it up and allow a spot for a youger player. The sport will be more accessible financially and senior teams will get younger forcing clubs to develop not but success. More players = more opportunity to find talent.

[paul merson]

Salary cap is way to high. Cut it in half. 10 team club could reduce fees by $300.00 per kid, older players will stay in the game for less money and the sport or they will give it up and allow a spot for a youger player. The sport will be more accessible financially and senior teams will get younger forcing clubs to develop not but success. More players = more opportunity to find talent.

90k
26 rounds = $3461 p/w
15 player squad = $230 p/p
You want it halved = $115 p/w
Training 3 nights per week = 4.5 hours
Game = 3 hours

This doesnt include cup games, preseason or finals.

Even if we did this how would this increase numbers? We are at a capacity as is, but it may help pay for the $30k increase in the electricity bill this year!

[paul merson]

Oh and we as seniors get individual sponsorships each season to cover our expenses, let me tell you that some of us pull sponsors well over the cost of junior fees, I know, we are very selfish.

[regangrandson]

Oh and we as seniors get individual sponsorships each season to cover our expenses, let me tell you that some of us pull sponsors well over the cost of junior fees, I know, we are very selfish.

Charging kids $800 to play football is bloody outragious, just my opinion, especially when you have more than one kid. If you get sponsors to cover your expenses great. I guess if you didn''t get an individual sponsor the expeses would come out of your pay.

[paul merson]

Oh and we as seniors get individual sponsorships each season to cover our expenses, let me tell you that some of us pull sponsors well over the cost of junior fees, I know, we are very selfish.

Charging kids $800 to play football is bloody outragious, just my opinion, especially when you have more than one kid. If you get sponsors to cover your expenses great. I guess if you didn''t get an individual sponsor the expeses would come out of your pay.

Yep

[Stitch This]

Can't wait to here the same old crap about junior fees not going into senior players pockets.

a) What club are you involved with?

b) How much are your seniors paid?

c) How much of your junior rego fees go towards senior wages?

I appreciate you may not want to answer a) but you should have no problem answering b) or c) as you have indicated you already know the answer. So please share your wisdom.

[GaylyColouredStumps]

$300 to play - that's way too cheap - no wonder Queensland don't produce any top players - you can't possibly develop players for any less than $800 - charging that much at least is what makes SA such a powerhouse in junior development

I think it just spells it out really. They can obviously cover their running costs for $300 then you assume that they are still paying players. Either there clubs are marketing masters or we are paying players far too much. Can't wait to here the same old crap about junior fees not going into senior players pockets. 10 teams at $800 about 120K, salary cap 90K. But juniors don't fund seniors. "Yeh right".

So where does all of senior sponrship money go then?

to your wages merse..

the rest of your teammates divvy up the junior fees

[paul merson]

I think it just spells it out really. They can obviously cover their running costs for $300 then you assume that they are still paying players. Either there clubs are marketing masters or we are paying players far too much. Can't wait to here the same old crap about junior fees not going into senior players pockets. 10 teams at $800 about 120K, salary cap 90K. But juniors don't fund seniors. "Yeh right".

So where does all of senior sponrship money go then?

to your wages merse..

the rest of your teammates divvy up the junior fees

Ahh, well at least I can sleep at night!

[Željko Jurin]

Oh and we as seniors get individual sponsorships each season to cover our expenses, let me tell you that some of us pull sponsors well over the cost of junior fees, I know, we are very selfish.

Charging kids $800 to play football is bloody outragious, just my opinion, especially when you have more than one kid. If you get sponsors to cover your expenses great. I guess if you didn''t get an individual sponsor the expeses would come out of your pay.

Speaking from my son's teams perspecitve .... 87 training session, 28 games, 2 strips and a tracksuit top, not worth $650 ?

PS .... Our club also had a $40,000+ water bill for the 3 summer months only, and like we all know from our home bills, how much has electricity gone up in the last year or so, 70-80% ?

[Steve#4]

I didn't post this to have a go at any club, just to provide my thoughts and pose questions for discussion.

Researching the Brisbane clubs just brought home how junior soccer used to be for me.
I will say though I can't find how many nights they train and I am talking about SSF U8-U11.

The buy your own Socks/Shorts and the club supplies the top on game day seems to be the Norm.
Trials also for the following year are held in that year....Guess they don't have to order individual Tracksuits, hoodies, training tops etc as they have a shop you can buy it from if you want all that.

The bigger clubs also have the academies setup but that is an extra cost if you child wants/needs extra training.

[The moyesiah]

Oh and we as seniors get individual sponsorships each season to cover our expenses, let me tell you that some of us pull sponsors well over the cost of junior fees, I know, we are very selfish.

Charging kids $800 to play football is bloody outragious, just my opinion, especially when you have more than one kid. If you get sponsors to cover your expenses great. I guess if you didn''t get an individual sponsor the expeses would come out of your pay.

You have a choices!!

Is Jonny a superstar? if not why are you paying $800, in fact if Jonny truly is a superstar (not a superstar in mum&dads eye) the club will pay his fees, and you would not pay anything, because that club sees the prospects of doing so.

If Jonny is not a Superstar then go to E&D and let Jonny enjoy his football and let your wallet enjoy it also, it's really very simple.

The problem isn't the clubs, the problem are parents who think their child is the next football prodigy. For example, U15/16/17 possibly 3-5 players from those age groups may go to 18s, the rest are just paying fees they don't need to pay and have virtually no future at the club after U17s (with the odd exception).

[Wraith]

If you're talking about SSF; most clubs don't hold trials and for that figure of $300, many clubs are around the mark.

[Željko Jurin]

You think we're expensive in SA .... look at point #6 in this;

http://www.smfc.com.au/files/2013-Youth ... -Sheet.pdf

[The moyesiah]

Oh and we as seniors get individual sponsorships each season to cover our expenses, let me tell you that some of us pull sponsors well over the cost of junior fees, I know, we are very selfish.

Charging kids $800 to play football is bloody outragious, just my opinion, especially when you have more than one kid. If you get sponsors to cover your expenses great. I guess if you didn''t get an individual sponsor the expeses would come out of your pay.

Speaking from my son's teams perspecitve .... 87 training session, 28 games, 2 strips and a tracksuit top, not worth $650 ?

PS .... Our club also had a $40,000+ water bill for the 3 summer months only, and like we all know from our home bills, how much has electricity gone up in the last year or so, 70-80% ?

Don't E&D pay the same Water, Leases, Electricity bills as our fellow FFSA clubs?

If so how can they pay these bills with such low fees? Possibly because they don't consistently pay their seniors wages?

What is the comparison in senior wage bills for Sunday Div1 clubs like Parafield Gardens (1st) or Elizabeth downs (2nd) vs Metro (1st) and ABE (2nd)? I bet the difference a year is very close to the difference per year in junior fees.

It's all relevant I'm sure.

[Željko Jurin]

I thought 'Amateur' league = No player payments ?

Do amateur players report this income, and pay tax on this income that they are allegedly receiving ?

Just asking, because you might be opeing up a dangerous can of worms here with your post

[regangrandson]

I thought 'Amateur' league = No player payments ?

Do amateur players report this income, and pay tax on this income that they are allegedly receiving ?

Just asking, because you might be opeing up a dangerous can of worms here with your post

A bit dramatic. Anyway the point you make about your water, electricity etc, you dont pay a premium because you are Fed. Also your bill is so high due to the amount of grounds you have which in turn allows you to field more teams which = more revenue from fees. Enfield for example has 9 junior teams, how many do you have 15, 20? Based on $650 a kid you could be talking about a 90K take compared to a $180K take. You use more resourses you have to pay. Then these extra players and parents buy their chevap, chips and cans of coke.

[Željko Jurin]

And I agree .... everyone has 'choices'

Personally, as a parent I would want to pay more then E&D clubs, to receive new strips each year (rather then hand me downs, like we used to get 30 years ago), qualifed coaches (again, 'choise' of which coach is actually qualified), and more trainings

[Stitch This]

What is the comparison in senior wage bills for Sunday Div1 clubs like Parafield Gardens (1st) or Elizabeth downs (2nd) vs Metro (1st) and ABE (2nd)? I bet the difference a year is very close to the difference per year in junior fees.

It's all relevant I'm sure.

As merson has already pointed out just a few posts above, Metro senior payments come from sponsorship.

Are you accusing him of lying or just plain thick?

[The moyesiah]

I thought 'Amateur' league = No player payments ?

Do amateur players report this income, and pay tax on this income that they are allegedly receiving ?

Just asking, because you might be opeing up a dangerous can of worms here with your post

Ask them, I didn't write up their contracts, if they even exist, but I put it to you that players get paid in amateurs, just like they get paid in amateur other codes, is it legit? under the table? over the bar? who knows.

If I have a free bar tab isn't that payment?
Do all the FFSA coaches that coach for their kids fees declare that, is that a payment? Does the club declare that they paid that?

[Željko Jurin]

I thought 'Amateur' league = No player payments ?

Do amateur players report this income, and pay tax on this income that they are allegedly receiving ?

Just asking, because you might be opeing up a dangerous can of worms here with your post

A bit dramatic. Anyway the point you make about your water, electricity etc, you dont pay a premium because you are Fed. Also your bill is so high due to the amount of grounds you have which in turn allows you to field more teams which = more revenue from fees. Enfield for example has 9 junior teams, how many do you have 15, 20? Based on $650 a kid you could be talking about a 90K take compared to a $180K take. You use more resourses you have to pay. Then these extra players and parents buy their chevap, chips and cans of coke.

These are all my estimates at my junior club ...... not the clubs actuals, but I do know about the water bill, and the apparel cost is not hard to work out

Say 150 kids x $650 = $97,500
50 kids x $300 = $15,000
Total = $112,500 in fees (and I wont take off the coach and manager discounts for their kids)

Water for 3 months = $40,000+
Water for the rest of the 9mths = $20,000 (a guess)

Apparel for 200 kids x $150 = $30,000

Electricity = $20,000 (a guess, probably much more) ... my home costs $4,000 for the year, and I dont have 4 pitches with 9 light towers

Ground maintenance, mowing, line marking = $5,000 to 10,000

Even if I'm out by $10,000 with my 2nd water guess, how much left over change is there ?

[The moyesiah]

What is the comparison in senior wage bills for Sunday Div1 clubs like Parafield Gardens (1st) or Elizabeth downs (2nd) vs Metro (1st) and ABE (2nd)? I bet the difference a year is very close to the difference per year in junior fees.

It's all relevant I'm sure.

As merson has already pointed out just a few posts above, Metro senior payments come from sponsorship.

Are you accusing him of lying or just plain thick?

If you think not $1 from junior fees are not going to seniors in some form, you might ask yourself the same question. I will say Merson is full of it, unknown to the true branches of fees or just political.

Bottom line is ALL money that comes in to a club is used to run the club, and guess what, Seniors are part of the club, it doesn't matter if it's 1000$ of junior fees or $20000 of junior fees.

It doesn't matter if a parent buys a chevap and a can of beer on Saturday, or a parent buys a hotdog and a can of coke on Sunday, this is club money to support the ENTIRE club and the running of the CLUB which involves juniors and seniors.

I'm also told at Mers club they have different line marking buckets for seniors and juniors. They also have two electrical boxes and juniors train under their electricity and seniors under theirs. They also do the same with water, two separate meters, even the rent is split.

[The moyesiah]

I thought 'Amateur' league = No player payments ?

Do amateur players report this income, and pay tax on this income that they are allegedly receiving ?

Just asking, because you might be opeing up a dangerous can of worms here with your post

A bit dramatic. Anyway the point you make about your water, electricity etc, you dont pay a premium because you are Fed. Also your bill is so high due to the amount of grounds you have which in turn allows you to field more teams which = more revenue from fees. Enfield for example has 9 junior teams, how many do you have 15, 20? Based on $650 a kid you could be talking about a 90K take compared to a $180K take. You use more resourses you have to pay. Then these extra players and parents buy their chevap, chips and cans of coke.

These are all my estimates ...... not the clubs, but I do know about the water bill, and the apparel cost is not hard to work out

Say 150 kids x $650 = $97,500
50 kids x $300 = $15,000
Total = $112,500 in fees (and I wont take off the coach and manager discounts for their kids)

Water for 3 months = $40,000+
Water for the rest of the 9mths = $20,000 (a guess)

Apparel for 200 kids x $150 = $30,000

Electricity = $20,000 (a guess, probably much more) ... my home costs $4,000 for the year, and I dont have 4 pitches with 9 light towers

Ground maintenance, mowing, line marking = $5,000 to 10,000

Even if I'm out by $10,000 with my 2nd water guess, how much left over change is there ?

Major sponsor?
all other sponsors?
ground sponsors?
fundraising?
profit over bar/canteen?

wouldn't this cover all that?

Why can't people just say of course juniors incomes helps seniors, just like seniors income will help juniors. Why all the cloak and daggers?