Juniors in Amateurs or in FFSA

[Sir Bobby Charlton]

Hi Guys,

I am involved in an amateur club and we are looking at starting Juniors in 2012. I was wondering wether some of the other amateur clubs out there with juniors could give us any advice or guidance on the following:

1) FFSA or Amatuers?
2) Pros and Cons of each?
3) Where do we start and any other guidance on the matter?

Any assitance and advice would be appreciated, thank you.

[Lucas Leiva]

I'm led to believe there isn't an junior amateur set-up at the moment (except for up North with the Eliz & Districts set up, so depends where your club is geographically).

If not up north, then you will be looking at the FFSA competition. There are a few amateur clubs with junior teams in those divisions - I guess it would be good if one of those clubs responded on here!

[Sir Bobby Charlton]

Thanks for your response Lucas.

We don't want to be influenced by our geographic location, but to answer broadley, no we are not based out north, but in saying that, if the E&D is a better opportunity and competition, then we do not want to discount them. Also, I thought there are already some amateur clubs, that are not based out North that have juniors in amateur competition e.g. Monarchs, who are based at SAASL headquarters out in the west suburbs. Or am I mistaken?

[htfac]

The E&D have teams from Nuriootpa in the North, to Athelstone in the North East to The Adelaide Stingrays at Grange in the west. It is a great association that offers clubs good organization, good grass root competitions and leagues, all at a very reasonable cost. Something I think a start up club would be looking for. Definitely worth investigating.

[DOC]

E and D are everywhere, not just northern teams and they are your best option

[ExtraTime]

[quote="DOC"]E and D are everywhere, not just northern teams and they are your best option[/quote]
so would you appreciate a team from south then ??????

[DOC]

E and D are everywhere, not just northern teams and they are your best option

so would you appreciate a team from south then ??????

i went everywhere when i played e and d

[flyte7]

When we started the junior boys at Fulham we looked at E&D, but although the travel would have been taxing I would happily drive for an hour to watch my son play football. I think the main factor was that the games or at least some of them are played on a Saturday.

It was a diifficult start in the FFSA, but the last couple of years we have become more competitive. However, this year the FFSA introduced the JSL (community league compared to JPL, the elite league). As we are not affiliated to a federation senior mens side we must play in the JSL. The JSL also includes all the federation team 'b' sides. Some of these 'b' teams are of a very high standard e.g. Para Hills B's, but unfortunately there are some extremely weak teams in the league too.

I have no knowledge or experience of the E & D league so I'm not able to compare the 2, but happy to answer any other questions you might have.

At the end of the day I just want to get as many kids as possible playing the beautiful game so whatever you decide is great.

I think we had to write a mission statement and someone from FFSA came out and inspected our pitches/changing rooms, but all in all it was a fairly straightforward process. Just send them an email or give them a phone and I'm sure they will be very keen to get you on board.

[Big Mac]

E and D are everywhere, not just northern teams and they are your best option

so would you appreciate a team from south then ??????

i went everywhere when i played e and d

?????
Everywhere...what do you call everywhere?
Elizabeth & Districts has always been just that ( Elizabeth & surrounding Districts), what Clubs did you play against that weren't North or Nth/East?
Yes I know that 1 or 2 Clubs outside the area (Athelstone etc) have been added over recent times, but what Clubs are you talking about?.
I go back a fair while and have never known a Club from South, East or West.
Why is E&D the best option?

[Karmann Ghia]

When we started the junior boys at Fulham we looked at E&D, but although the travel would have been taxing I would happily drive for an hour to watch my son play football. I think the main factor was that the games or at least some of them are played on a Saturday.

It was a diifficult start in the FFSA, but the last couple of years we have become more competitive. However, this year the FFSA introduced the JSL (community league compared to JPL, the elite league). As we are not affiliated to a federation senior mens side we must play in the JSL. The JSL also includes all the federation team 'b' sides. Some of these 'b' teams are of a very high standard e.g. Para Hills B's, but unfortunately there are some extremely weak teams in the league too.

I have no knowledge or experience of the E & D league so I'm not able to compare the 2, but happy to answer any other questions you might have.

At the end of the day I just want to get as many kids as possible playing the beautiful game so whatever you decide is great.

I think we had to write a mission statement and someone from FFSA came out and inspected our pitches/changing rooms, but all in all it was a fairly straightforward process. Just send them an email or give them a phone and I'm sure they will be very keen to get you on board.

very well said and good to see your club growing

[Sir Bobby Charlton]

Thanks for the comments flyte7. Interesting perspective. I too agree, that its about introducing the kids to the game, but when begining juniors you have to provide what the community (parents of kids) expect or are in the majority of the belief, hence why I am asking for advice/comments from other peoples experience.

An example is, I heard one comment from someone I spoke to, that parents have a mind set that if there kids are playing against a West Adel, Metro Stars, Enfield, White City or Adel City, that they are playing in an elite competition, be it in the JSL as flyte7 describes it, would this be true?

Also does anyone know what the fees (amateur clubs) are charging parents for juniors in the E&D or Federation?

[flyte7]

Thanks Karmann.

Sir Bobby, it is a very difficult balancing act to try and accomodate all the kids that want to play football and also remain competitive on the field. We have got it right in some of the teams, but others are a work in progress. The hardest thing I have found to manage is having a wide range of abilities. I think it's a lot easier to coach when the boys have similar skill levels.

If you have quality coaches that are good with the kids then your parents should be happy. If they're not then you don't want them anyway.

I think it's fair to say that the boys and their parents look forward to the games against the 'elite' clubs even though they are fully aware they are playing the 'b' side. At the moment the JSL is regionally based and I don't know what the FFSA plans are for next year. However, I think if (where numbers allow) they went to a div 1, 2 then the standard of the div 1 JSL with for example Para Hills, Adelaide City, Cumberland, Metro Stars, Comets, Fulham , Cove etc would be more than a match for JPL div 3 and many would be competitive in div 2 (outside of say the top 2 or 3).

Fulham prices range from <$200 for the younger kids to $375 for the older kids. That includes a strip, ball, bag and all ref fees etc. We have a part time football junior coordinator this year and are looking to appoint a full time position next year. I don't want to get into a debate about fees with other clubs and will just say that it's up to the parents to decide what is value for money. It could be that the standard of coaching or opportunities at an 'elite' club that charges $1000 make it better value for money.

[De Voyeur]

I think E & D fees are often around the $180 mark.

Something I have recently heard about is the Fed clubs introducing the small sided game approach. I believe this is going to be applied up to and including u11s at some clubs. The teams at u6s for example will train once during the week and play 4 v 4 on the weekend. The groups of four will be different every week. There will not be any goals or keepers but players will be trying to get the ball to a line.

While this approach is supposed to be great for developing the children's skills it will be interesting to see how it develops their competitive nature- everyone knows you need a bit of 'mongrel' in you. I know E & D is a strong, competitive league (especially in the early junior years before the best players go to feds).

As a dad, I know which I'd prefer to watch.

[James]

I think E & D fees are often around the $180 mark.

Something I have recently heard about is the Fed clubs introducing the small sided game approach. I believe this is going to be applied up to and including u11s at some clubs. The teams at u6s for example will train once during the week and play 4 v 4 on the weekend. The groups of four will be different every week. There will not be any goals or keepers but players will be trying to get the ball to a line.

While this approach is supposed to be great for developing the children's skills it will be interesting to see how it develops their competitive nature- everyone knows you need a bit of 'mongrel' in you. I know E & D is a strong, competitive league (especially in the early junior years before the best players go to feds).

As a dad, I know which I'd prefer to watch.

Kids are competitive regardless of how the game is formatted.

Also as a dad i would rather watch my kid having lots of touches and developing his/he skill set.

[De Voyeur]

I think E & D fees are often around the $180 mark.

Something I have recently heard about is the Fed clubs introducing the small sided game approach. I believe this is going to be applied up to and including u11s at some clubs. The teams at u6s for example will train once during the week and play 4 v 4 on the weekend. The groups of four will be different every week. There will not be any goals or keepers but players will be trying to get the ball to a line.

While this approach is supposed to be great for developing the children's skills it will be interesting to see how it develops their competitive nature- everyone knows you need a bit of 'mongrel' in you. I know E & D is a strong, competitive league (especially in the early junior years before the best players go to feds).

As a dad, I know which I'd prefer to watch.

Kids are competitive regardless of how the game is formatted.

Also as a dad i would rather watch my kid having lots of touches and developing his/he skill set.

This theory has obviously worked with great success in Europe and South American countries- will be interesting to see if it takes off here. Gives us dads a dilemma on which one to go for.

I guess we should not be making a choice on which one we'd prefer to watch anyway but on what will benefit our child the most and give them the most enjoyment.

[Steve#4]

I guess we should not be making a choice on which one we'd prefer to watch anyway but on what will benefit our child the most and give them the most enjoyment.

No guessing about it

[BIG RED]

Something I have recently heard about is the Fed clubs introducing the small sided game approach. I believe this is going to be applied up to and including u11s at some clubs. The teams at u6s for example will train once during the week and play 4 v 4 on the weekend. The groups of four will be different every week. There will not be any goals or keepers but players will be trying to get the ball to a line..

FYI there are 2 X 1 metre goals, no GKs,4v4 and goals can be scored for under 6 and 7 SSF age groups on a 30 X 20 metre pitch.

[Supersub]

I dont get the SSG idea.

We play 4v4, 3v3, 7v7..whatever at training every week. Whats there to look forward to on the weekend?

I'm glad E&D have stuck to there guns. It gives the young ones the experience of playing the real game without the pressure of winning or losing and league tables.

[James]

I dont get the SSG idea.

We play 4v4, 3v3, 7v7..whatever at training every week. Whats there to look forward to on the weekend?

I'm glad E&D have stuck to there guns. It gives the young ones the experience of playing the real game without the pressure of winning or losing and league tables.

I watched an u7 E+D game a few weeks ago. On a corner every kid on the park (bar the other goal keeper) were in the penalty box. So the E+D mod pitch does not result in the kiddies getting the 'real experience' as thy are not ready to apply 'real' tactics.

Come and watch a u6-7 SSF game. It is competitive, has less rules, the kids have less traffic to explore, it is fast and the kids get lots of the ball.

[De Voyeur]

Something I have recently heard about is the Fed clubs introducing the small sided game approach. I believe this is going to be applied up to and including u11s at some clubs. The teams at u6s for example will train once during the week and play 4 v 4 on the weekend. The groups of four will be different every week. There will not be any goals or keepers but players will be trying to get the ball to a line..

FYI there are 2 X 1 metre goals, no GKs,4v4 and goals can be scored for under 6 and 7 SSF age groups on a 30 X 20 metre pitch.

OK cheers. Sound like similar goals as are used by the junior development squad at Modbury Vista.

[Rumour With A View]

I dont get the SSG idea.

We play 4v4, 3v3, 7v7..whatever at training every week. Whats there to look forward to on the weekend?

I'm glad E&D have stuck to there guns. It gives the young ones the experience of playing the real game without the pressure of winning or losing and league tables.

I watched an u7 E+D game a few weeks ago. On a corner every kid on the park (bar the other goal keeper) were in the penalty box. So the E+D mod pitch does not result in the kiddies getting the 'real experience' as thy are not ready to apply 'real' tactics.

Come and watch a u6-7 SSF game. It is competitive, has less rules, the kids have less traffic to explore, it is fast and the kids get lots of the ball.

Some of them do....no change there !

[Željko Jurin]

Lets not get into a SSF vs 11v11 debate, there is an 11 page topic in the junior forum, with LOTS of examples from all around the world (still dont understand the doubters of SSF though, but each to their own)

Sir Bobby Charlton, if I were you, I would get in direct contact with clubs in a similar situation as yourself
(eg) Fulham, Plympton, Beverley and Sturt, who dont have seniors in FFSA, but do have juniors, to get the "FFSA" side of the question

Personally, if I were a parent and lived down South (assuming your team is) I wouldnt want to travel out North (to the e&d comp) every second week, I would just join a local FFSA club nearby, as I know games every week are close by
However, if you are from close to E&D, then I do think E&D would be a viable option for an amateur club

Isnt there a Southern comp or league somewhere ??

[We Done Ya]

Sir Bobby Charlton, if I were you, I would get in direct contact with clubs in a similar situation as yourself
(eg) Fulham, Plympton, Beverley and Sturt, who dont have seniors in FFSA, but do have juniors, to get the "FFSA" side of the question

Sturt entered senior this year to provide their juniors with a better copetition to play in (JPL) to improve development. Having said that Sturt have had a junior set up for a number of years and so it was a step by step process to get to where it is now.

[Phil collins]

Have you been to a EDJSA under 12 age group or higher lately. I am sure if you do that will give you a personal perspective of the standard then go and watch a FFSA under 12 age group and above and you will soon see the difference in standard. Then you will be able to decide with out bias

[Dirty Sanchez]

Beverley no longer exist, think a lot of the junior players went to Fulham