Silly Question Why do clubs push players Up

[gl1968]

Silly Question Why do clubs push players Up, in discussions with various people from overseas ie uk and portugal they made the statement pushing players up a grade or two is not a common practice unless they are something very special. so i wondering why do they continually persist with this Adelaide and i assume rest of Australia.

Hey i don't pretend to be a soccer/football expert i just got bit curious after discussions with these people

[rabbit]

Good question. Some would say it is to make sure the "talented kids" get pushed and tested.
Ask the parents of "Little Johnny", they'll tell you the real answer..........

[johnydep]

Better to ask SASI through Tony Vidmar. You'll get a more constructive answer from him, rather than the stirrers we have here.

[johnydep]

Why do clubs push players up, in discussions with various people from overseas ie UK and Portugal they made the statement pushing players up a grade or two is not a common practice unless they are something very special. so i wondering why do they continually persist with this Adelaide and i assume rest of Australia.

I spoke to M. Valkanis last year about this, his view (in my interpretation) was that there were a lot of variables such as:

• has the player reach a stage where he/she can not gain any further development from current age group?
  is the player physically and mentally ready?
  is the team/coaching better/more suited to the player?
  is it for the betterment of the player?

Also was mentioned that moving players up should be carefully managed (again my interpretation):

• train up while still in his/her current age group
  play up occasionally while still in his/her current team
  monitor players physical an mental well being, allow him/her to still be part of current age group until ready to make full transition to age group (don't rush it)

It's a hard one, which I think doesn't have an answer that fits all.

[Bomber]

If a player is identified with special talent, then he shouldnt be held back playing above his weight, so to speak. Test against the best. Its called development. Sadly, too many parents still prefer winning kids games rather than see players in their club progress, thus give them the best possible grounding should they be serious about a career in football.

[rabbit]

Better to ask SASI through Tony Vidmar. You'll get a more constructive answer from him, rather than the stirrers we have here.

The question was "Why do Clubs push players up?" Not what Vidmar and Sasi have to say.

[rabbit]

If a player is identified with special talent, then he shouldnt be held back playing above his weight, so to speak. Test against the best. Its called development. Sadly, too many parents still prefer winning kids games rather than see players in their club progress, thus give them the best possible grounding should they be serious about a career in football.

Are you saying that parents would generally want players to stay in their own age group rather than "develop" in an older age group. ?

[gl1968]

let me add another point or two out of curiosity

Do you push 1 level only or is it ok to 2 - 3 levels?
if the coaching in the higher levels is not considered as good as the coach in his age level are you developing player still by pushing up or is he better off been coached by someone who knows what theya re doing?

if you win games is this a form of development of the ability of players, if so if you are constantly losing games will the plyaer develp as well ?

[rabbit]

Who is doing the pushing at most Clubs?

[gl1968]

the pushing i would say be from parents and some club officials depending on the agenda

[johnydep]

Better to ask SASI through Tony Vidmar. You'll get a more constructive answer from him, rather than the stirrers we have here.

The question was "Why do Clubs push players up?" Not what Vidmar and Sasi have to say.

Something about tools and sheds come to mind here.

Is your first comment the view from your Club? Do you wish to clarify which club it is that you speak for.

[gl1968]

i ma not talking about a particular club i feel in my opinion lots of clubs are pushing players up and i am not sure if benefits any one

[MegaBonus]

the same reason why teachers/schools extend the more capable student with more/harder studies......

[johnydep]

the pushing i would say be from parents and some club officials depending on the agenda

Then you would have to include a question about players and parents jumping from club to club:

• what are the benefits
  are there any negatives

[rabbit]

Better to ask SASI through Tony Vidmar. You'll get a more constructive answer from him, rather than the stirrers we have here.

The question was "Why do Clubs push players up?" Not what Vidmar and Sasi have to say.

Something about tools and sheds come to mind here.

Is your first comment the view from your Club? Do you wish to clarify which club it is that you speak for.

Hey, if the cap fits..............
Not a member of any Club and views are my own.

[gl1968]

the pushing i would say be from parents and some club officials depending on the agenda

Then you would have to include a question about players and parents jumping from club to club:

• what are the benefits
  are there any negatives

I agree the question should have asked about club jumoping parents,
re pushing up whose decision should it be Player/Parent/Club/Someone Else

I am not trying stir things i was just curious as it is a common practice in Adelaide but in some well know overseas countries they do it reluctantly

[harrycripps]

There are many variables as to why kids move up age groups;

Is the kid dominating because of size but not improving technique because he is using strength over ability? - Then should move up to appropriate level where size is irrelevant

Is the kid not getting good enough coaching in his adequate age group - Go to an Academy or change club

Is the kid dominating through ability, but not physically strong - Take care not to push too soon, but be aware the kid needs to be challenged

[rabbit]

the same reason why teachers/schools extend the more capable student with more/harder studies......

Couldn't agree more. Why shouldn't kids extend themselves........IF they are capable. Wouldn't think their would be too many hidden agendas from schools/teachers either.

[best]

Silly Question Why do clubs push players Up, in discussions with various people from overseas ie uk and portugal they made the statement pushing players up a grade or two is not a common practice unless they are something very special. so i wondering why do they continually persist with this Adelaide and i assume rest of Australia.

Hey i don't pretend to be a soccer/football expert i just got bit curious after discussions with these people

All clubs push players up for different reason.
example white city u/12 are mostly u/11 the reason they played up was due to numbers.
it's harder for players to move up at strong clubs.

[rabbit]

All clubs push players up for different reason.
example white city u/12 are mostly u/11 the reason they played up was due to numbers.
it's harder for players to move up at strong clubs.[/quote]

And a little bit easier to move them down too
Then you would have to include another question. If they are moved up because of their talent, should they be allowed to move back down? Oops, there goes another can of worms

[Big Mac]

Silly Question Why do clubs push players Up, in discussions with various people from overseas ie uk and portugal they made the statement pushing players up a grade or two is not a common practice unless they are something very special. so i wondering why do they continually persist with this Adelaide and i assume rest of Australia.

Hey i don't pretend to be a soccer/football expert i just got bit curious after discussions with these people

All clubs push players up for different reason.
example white city u/12 are mostly u/11 the reason they played up was due to numbers.
it's harder for players to move up at strong clubs.

This team has a goal difference of -104...I wonder what these kids are getting out of it?

I thing there are a few Parents who push to have their Kids play up in the mistaken belief that State/development squads
wont look at them otherwise. I have seen 1st hand recently that Kids have stayed to play in their right age group
and have made these squads.
I can understand if a player is way above his team-mates in a weaker team, but most strong clubs the kids are generally playing in their own age
groups.

[Nova]

Better to ask SASI through Tony Vidmar. You'll get a more constructive answer from him, rather than the stirrers we have here.

With all due respect to Tony Vidmar, I expected a smarter comment than that from you JD
Why would he give a more constructive answer :?

[harrycripps]

All clubs push players up for different reason.
example white city u/12 are mostly u/11 the reason they played up was due to numbers.
it's harder for players to move up at strong clubs.

And a little bit easier to move them down too
Then you would have to include another question. If they are moved up because of their talent, should they be allowed to move back down? Oops, there goes another can of worms [/quote]

Therefore if kids go up an age group, it is because the age group he is playing in does not benefit the child, and that if a kid then goes down an age group, it is because that team is short through injuries or illness, or that the Club is desperate to win a certain game/s, get promotion, avoid relegation etc?

[Alba gu brath]

Another factor is SASI. I know from experience that sometimes SASI get involved about certain players and request that the club pushes them up a level or 2 if SASI feels it will help them develop. They have a big push on what happens with players that are training with them.

[johnydep]

SASI currently have several 14 year old, playing against Super League Reserve teams.
Teeboy (currently at AIS and in the U17 Joeys) has played above his age at clubs.

I mentioned asking Tony Vidmar (SASI) because he is following world trends, he is also studying the subject as it is his job which the SA tax payer is footing the bill for. He should be the fist port of call for such questions, if not him then who?

Playing up is not for everyone, and should be done carefully. Parents should err on the side of caution, don't push it but do ask questions. I've looked into it quite a lot and I still have reservations about it, but there are pros and cons.

At the end of the day they're still kids, sometimes people forget and need a gentle reminder. Let them use their time to learn and have fun, try different experiences but let them have the chance to be with their peer group when required.

I would like to see more input on this from higher levels; FFA, FFSA, SASI, etc. With the right information and training, clubs could implement the practice with more confidence. Players and parents would get better service, and the country reap the rewards of higher levels of player development.

Until that happens, clubs through Development Coaches have to do the best they can with the resources and knowledge at hand. It's not the ideal situation, and I'd love to share my frustration on the system currently used, but there's no point at the moment and I'm enjoying my time since backing off on some of what I've been involved in previously

[Bomber]

If a player is identified with special talent, then he shouldnt be held back playing above his weight, so to speak. Test against the best. Its called development. Sadly, too many parents still prefer winning kids games rather than see players in their club progress, thus give them the best possible grounding should they be serious about a career in football.

Are you saying that parents would generally want players to stay in their own age group rather than "develop" in an older age group. ?

Not necessarily "generally". But some still whinge, even parents of kids that dont have "the good player" that week because its "an important game this week".

[Ciudad Juarez]

speaking to an overseas talent scout, he told me that if a coach at a junior club had his team regularly winning 8/9/10-0 then he should be sacked.

Reason being that he is holding these kids back and not challenging them.

He believed that a mid table squad is where you want to be for development ie still being relatively challenged with the scope to improve.

[leo64]

the answer is you promote really talented kids who need more of a challenge and are exceeding in his or her age group, then monitor and follow their progression. but here we are pushing kids up out necessity and teams being short or because we think they look pretty good. if the kids are really excelling and can cope then sure they deserve to have a go up an age group, but unfortunely i see many teams with kids pushed up for the hell of it ,or to fill spots , or they have no choice, beacause of numbers etc. this is a real problem. i also hear of little johhny playing u17cs for example at 14 years of age and get told how good hes playing and competant he is. the bottoim line is that if he were playing u15a or u16a ,(no disrespect to the 17c comp,) he would be challenged and develop a lot quicker. my view anyway.

[MegaBonus]

if there are so many children/teenagers 'playing up'...whats the issue???? theyre all playing against each other....

[leo64]

if thats the case then play in your age group, thats what its there for, otherwise do away with age groups from u15s up and make it open league