to all the anti-Italians

[Juventino]

Far different back then, guys like Di Stefano played for three nations (Spain, Argentina and Columbia). Poor bastard still couldn't play in a world cup . That was just how it was.

[Translator]

Thanks for the clarification, hopefully next time minus the sarcasm. I ask a genuine question and somehow you feel the need to ridicule a fellow forumite. I wasn't sure of the rulings back then and felt that it would be hard to classify these players as "Children" as they had played in a WC 4 years prior.

tit for tat, obviously Duce meant sons of migrants when you went you made your sarcastic remark re children.

and your welcome.

[Madridista612]

For years, Real Madrid -- who, much like European businesses, benefited handsomely from government assistance and preferential treatment for years -- represented Francisco Franco's favorite toy.

In large part due to Franco's dictatorial ways, Real Madrid secured the best players, fielded the best teams and won Championships. But over the decades, Real Madrid saw its dominance erode at the expense of rivals, notably, cross-country foe FC Barcelona.

During the initial stages of his career, Francisco Franco worked long hours but as his professional life stagnated, due to age, he was inclined to take many extended vacations. His principle activities, during these hours of leisure, included hunting, fishing, golf, and even painting. Football was also high on his list of social interests and Real Madrid found, in the Dictator, an avid supporter.

so Franco was a Madridista like yourself.

and even as far as Fascist dictators go, he was only second best.

I wonder how that explains then that Barcelona won 9 domestic titles, Athletic Bilbao won 5 and Real Madrid only won 4, but seeing as Franco was the ruler of Europe, i'm sure he had a huge hand in Real Madrid's 5 Champions League titles in a row, so please, show me preferential treatment there. 9 Domestic Trophies Barca, 5 Domestic Trophies Athletic Bilbao and 4 Domestic Trophies Real Madrid in 11 years, doesn't exactly fit with the theory now does it? As for Di Stefano, i'm really tired of explaining this, but one more time just for the retard who actually believes i'm a bandwagon.

The mission to secure the signing of Di Stefano to FC Barcelona had first been given to Ramón Trias Fargas, who, besides being a lawyer and expert in commercial law, was the son of one of the share-holders of Millonarios, where Di Stefano was playing at the time. According to Trias Fargas, Barcelona's own management effectively obstructed the transfer when club president Marti Carreto also involved Barcelona chief scout Josep Samitier in the negotiations. Samitier, in his turn, brought in his Colombian friend, Joan Busquets, to speed up the talks with the Colombian club. Busquets, a director of Millonarios' rivals CF Santa Fe, seem to have tried more to sabotage the deal than to secure it. After issuing a harsh ultimatum to Millonarios to accept a modest offer for the player he organized Di Stefano's defection from Colombia when the ultimatum was rejected, despite Di Stefano owing the club money. River Plate, who owned the rights of the player from 1955 onwards, had accepted the transfer on the condition that Millonarios also agreed upon the transfer, which they, after what they perceived as Busquets' bullying tactics, weren't interested in doing. Trias Fargas' negotiations with the Colombians regarding a transfer sum were also breaking down when Carreto, despite assurances to Trias Fargas that he would pay whatever price Trias Fargas thought necessary, rejected a figure whenever it was agreed between the lawyer and the Colombians. Trias Fargas blamed Carreto claiming Barcelona directors had allowed him to spend $20,000 but Carreto only accepted to offer $10,000 plus the player's debts.

In 1953, Di Stéfano signed a deal with FC Barcelona and FIFA, who didn't know anything about Di Stefano heaving left Millonarios without permission, authorized the transfer from River Plate. The Spanish Federation, however, did not recognise the deal. According to Andres Ramírez, the Spanish Football Federation secretary, both Millonarios (who owned the rights of the player until the end of 1954, according to the agreements reached in the Lima Pact) and River Plate's consent were needed in order for Di Stefano to sign up with a Spanish club. Indeed Millonarios had reported FIFA the anomalous situation of the Argentinian, so FIFA iteself demanded the Spanish Federation to solve the problem. On 13 May 1953, he arrived in Spain to conclude his contract with Barcelona but during the discussions with the Federation, Real Madrid's president Santiago Bernabéu, acting upon the apparent division within the Barcelona management, convinced him to sign for them instead.

During the parallel negotiations between the two Spanish clubs and Millonarios, the Spanish Federation issued a ban on foreign players in the Spanish league. On September 15, the Spanish Federation made public the decision, which club presidents Carreto and Bernabéu had signed, to allow Di Stéfano four seasons in Spain - two for each team, to be played alternately. The agreement created such a storm of protests by the rest of the Barcelona management and the fans that Carreto resigned a week later. The interim board succeeding him opted to scratch the agreement all together for a compensation of four million pesetas, announcing on October 23 that Real Madrid could have the player permanently.

Il Duce =

[Madridista612]

As for the bandwagon statement....said the guy who started supporting Lazio in 1999-2000 realised what a mistake you've made yet?? Manchester United up next?? LOOOOL or seeing as you look like Italian football is your preference...Inter maybe?

[Motley]

im not anti italian, infact when i watch the azzuri play its all fine when the game is being shown from a distance. I only feel sick when close ups are shown of the shiraz heads. Hair styles and sideburns galore.

[sparrow]

im not anti italian, infact when i watch the azzuri play its all fine when the game is being shown from a distance. I only feel sick when close ups are shown of the shiraz heads. Hair styles and sideburns galore.

Hey, leave my Italian friends alone. At least their women are fine, I married one. I dated a Greek girl once, or I think it was a girl, but knew it just wouldn't work. Cost me a fortune in razor blades and shaving cream she did. Bless her
Don't you guys get a complex that your girls grow nicer beards than you guys?

[Piola]

As for the bandwagon statement....said the guy who started supporting Lazio in 1999-2000 realised what a mistake you've made yet?? Manchester United up next?? LOOOOL or seeing as you look like Italian football is your preference...Inter maybe?

yea man. full bandwagoner and sh*t

explains why I support Lazio. All the glory I get out of struggling to finish 12th

I never said that Franco bought Real titles, but I did prove that he is a Madridista like yourself. Something which you denied.

Madridista =

[admin]

Great debate amongst football fans.

PS It was never a penalty

[The Beaut Game]

Pedigree of the Azzurri will always come to the fore. There are no other teams left in the comp that come close. None!

P.s it was a penalty. and it was a goal against romania and so on and so forth.

The Spaniards will self destruct. (Unfortunately. They are good football nation)

The Dutch get far too ahead of themsleves and prance around. The quarters are a different dog. Resting the nine players against Romania smells of arrogance and immaturity of Van Basten as a coach.

Russia for me is a team to be concerned about. Like Italy they have had to fight at each turn or face expulsion.

The rest? Also rans!

[ruud]

Pedigree of the Azzurri will always come to the fore. There are no other teams left in the comp that come close. None!

P.s it was a penalty. and it was a goal against romania and so on and so forth.

The Spaniards will self destruct. (Unfortunately. They are good football nation)

The Dutch get far too ahead of themsleves and prance around. The quarters are a different dog. Resting the nine players against Romania smells of arrogance and immaturity of Van Basten as a coach.

Russia for me is a team to be concerned about. Like Italy they have had to fight at each turn or face expulsion.

The rest? Also rans!

lol.

[Madridista612]

did he support Real because they were against Barcelona and he wanted to surpress regionalism in Spain???

Yeh nice argument with the supression of regionalism thing....clearly done through Real Madrid ay....9 Domestic Titles Barca, 5 Domestic Titles Athletic Bilbao and 4 Domestic Titles Real Madrid. Clearly if you want supress regionalism you make the 2 biggest clubs supporting Catalan and Basque regionalism successful. You sir are a dumbas.s.

Well he certainly was a bandwagon Madrid fan (unlike me who watches almost every Real Madrid game, has countless jersey's [5 so not that countless]...for f*ck's sake I'm praying they show the Emirates Trophy on TV just so I can watch them play in pre season)....here's an account for you.

White Storm: The Story of Real Madrid by Phil Ball

"Franco was not a football fan, far from it, it seems that his "love" of football was born out of keeping up appearances with the public rather than an actual enjoyment for the game"

[Madridista612]

Pedigree of the Azzurri will always come to the fore. There are no other teams left in the comp that come close. None!

P.s it was a penalty. and it was a goal against romania and so on and so forth.

The Spaniards will self destruct. (Unfortunately. They are good football nation)

The Dutch get far too ahead of themsleves and prance around. The quarters are a different dog. Resting the nine players against Romania smells of arrogance and immaturity of Van Basten as a coach.

Russia for me is a team to be concerned about. Like Italy they have had to fight at each turn or face expulsion.

The rest? Also rans!

Or because they actually did the job in the first 2 games he was trying to give his other squad members a chance to impress. An Italian supporter with the name "The Beaut Game" smells of irony considering that Italy are the most ugly team on the planet.

[Piola]

did he support Real because they were against Barcelona and he wanted to surpress regionalism in Spain???

Yeh nice argument with the supression of regionalism thing....clearly done through Real Madrid ay....9 Domestic Titles Barca, 5 Domestic Titles Athletic Bilbao and 4 Domestic Titles Real Madrid. Clearly if you want supress regionalism you make the 2 biggest clubs supporting Catalan and Basque regionalism successful. You sir are a dumbas.s.

Well he certainly was a bandwagon Madrid fan (unlike me who watches almost every Real Madrid game, has countless jersey's [5 so not that countless]...for f*ck's sake I'm praying they show the Emirates Trophy on TV just so I can watch them play in pre season)....here's an account for you.

White Storm: The Story of Real Madrid by Phil Ball

"Franco was not a football fan, far from it, it seems that his "love" of football was born out of keeping up appearances with the public rather than an actual enjoyment for the game"

man you obviously dont get the point!! how can he MAKE a team successful without resorting to match fixing???

you blasted someone else because they said Real was Franco's team. you said "Ferrol was his team, how stupid can you be?"

whether or not, he was a bandwagoner, whatever reason it was, he obviously claimed to be a Real Madrid fan, so don't tell others to get their facts straight when you dont even do it yourself.

[Madridista612]

man you obviously dont get the point!! how can he MAKE a team successful without resorting to match fixing???

you blasted someone else because they said Real was Franco's team. you said "Ferrol was his team, how stupid can you be?"

whether or not, he was a bandwagoner, whatever reason it was, he obviously claimed to be a Real Madrid fan, so don't tell others to get their facts straight when you dont even do it yourself.

I was using sarcasm, the point being he didn't do anything to make them unsuccessful in order to supress Catalan and Basque culture. It's all bullsh*t Barca "we have a victim complex" propaganda.

What's the link with Franco and Real Madrid though??? How was it his team if he didn't even like football, Franco would have been the equivalent of one of those asian guys who wears a Real Madrid shirt because they had Beckham, the kind of person you ask what the result of the Real Madrid v Getafe game was and they shrug their shoulders. Just because Franco claimed to be a Real Madrid supporter doesn't make it true.

[Piola]

man you obviously dont get the point!! how can he MAKE a team successful without resorting to match fixing???

you blasted someone else because they said Real was Franco's team. you said "Ferrol was his team, how stupid can you be?"

whether or not, he was a bandwagoner, whatever reason it was, he obviously claimed to be a Real Madrid fan, so don't tell others to get their facts straight when you dont even do it yourself.

I was using sarcasm, the point being he didn't do anything to make them unsuccessful in order to supress Catalan and Basque culture. It's all bullsh*t Barca "we have a victim complex" propaganda.

What's the link with Franco and Real Madrid though??? How was it his team if he didn't even like football, Franco would have been the equivalent of one of those asian guys who wears a Real Madrid cabernet because they had Beckham, the kind of person you ask what the result of the Real Madrid v Getafe game was and they shrug their shoulders. Just because Franco claimed to be a Real Madrid supporter doesn't make it true.

if he was a Real bandwagoner then Real was his team wasnt it??

anyways, I hope youre over trying to play down the history of Italian football. Third best only to the Brazilians and Germans, not something I'm embarrassed about. As for you think we play boring football, thats your problem. Get a subscription to RAI and try and watch Italy as a neutral rather than a hater.

[The Kop]

get a room lovebirds......

[Madridista612]

if he was a Real bandwagoner then Real was his team wasnt it??

anyways, I hope youre over trying to play down the history of Italian football. Third best only to the Brazilians and Germans, not something I'm embarrassed about. As for you think we play boring football, thats your problem. Get a subscription to RAI and try and watch Italy as a neutral rather than a hater.

Yeh as much his team as it is people who know Beckham used to play for them, ask them who Di Stefano is and they're like....."is that the name of a pasta sauce brand??"

I don't like Serie A because there's not enough of what I like about football. I like fast build up, quick little touches, flicks, tricks and shots at goal. That's why La Liga, Dutch Eredivisie, Portuguese Superliga and the English Premier League are inside my favourites and the Serie A is not.

[Missing Post Count]

Wasn't Di Stefano a wine?

[ruud]

i did a wine tasting course yesterday

it was pretty fun

especially after having a few wines!

[Piola]

if he was a Real bandwagoner then Real was his team wasnt it??

anyways, I hope youre over trying to play down the history of Italian football. Third best only to the Brazilians and Germans, not something I'm embarrassed about. As for you think we play boring football, thats your problem. Get a subscription to RAI and try and watch Italy as a neutral rather than a hater.

Yeh as much his team as it is people who know Beckham used to play for them, ask them who Di Stefano is and they're like....."is that the name of a pasta sauce brand??"

I don't like Serie A because there's not enough of what I like about football. I like fast build up, quick little touches, flicks, tricks and shots at goal. That's why La Liga, Dutch Eredivisie, Portuguese Superliga and the English Premier League are inside my favourites and the Serie A is not.

So you like tricks and flicks therefore the Italians don't deserve to win major titles, because they don't play the style you like??

You might prefer La Liga but if you cant sit through Serie A or an Azzurri game because you find it boring, then what kind of football fan are you???
Possession based games are the best cause there are much less ridiculous skill errors.

[Madridista612]

Wasn't Di Stefano a wine?

Yeh something stupid like that I was told, I don't think they told me it was wine but yeh. I HATE Real Madrid fans like that, oooh Ronaldo, Roberto Carlos, Zidane, Figo, Beckham.....but "who the hell are Butragueno, Di Stefano, Puskas, Gento, Kopa, Santillana, Hugo Sanchez, Camacho, Del Bosque, Juanito, Sanchis etc etc"

So you like tricks and flicks therefore the Italians don't deserve to win major titles, because they don't play the style you like??

You might prefer La Liga but if you cant sit through Serie A or an Azzurri game because you find it boring, then what kind of football fan are you???
Possession based games are the best cause there are much less ridiculous skill errors.

No...the Italians don't deserve to win major titles, because, they've cheated and because football should be about scoring goals and attempting to score goals rather than, throw a defensive wall and then go on the counter.

Possession games are too slow, really who wants to see 300 passes between the backs followed by a long ball to the forward and repeat, reminds me of that moment in the Simpsons where they go watch Mexico v Portugal. "Wing passes to centre, passes to wing, back to centre, centre holds it, holds it, HOLDS IT!!!"

[Piola]

No...the Italians don't deserve to win major titles, because, they've cheated and because football should be about scoring goals and attempting to score goals rather than, throw a defensive wall and then go on the counter.

hahahahaha hilarious

go back to football school

Obviously the only part of football you appreciate are little tricks and turns. LOL

that and clearly you haven't seen anywhere near enough of Italian football or know enough of the history to pass the judgement you do.

no point discussing things further. ciao

[Madridista612]

I've watched enough to know that it's sh*t boring. Every Serie A game that was on last season on both ESPN and Setanta I watched without fail. I like attacking football....that's why I don't like the Serie A. I know enough about it's history, I've even seen some old school games of Milan back when they had Van Basten, Gullit and Rijkaard, that was exciting, not the crap they're playing now, who do they have that can cause even a moment of excitement? Kaka is 1, Pirlo is alright and I haven't seen Lavezzi play because they haven't shown any Napoli games but apart from those players....that's pretty much it for the whole Serie A. Pshht if you didn't have me on this forum you wouldn't have a 200 something post thread arguing about Italian football. You love it and you know it . Anyway as you're not interested anymore, adios amigo.

[Inter_boy;)]

man you obviously dont get the point!! how can he MAKE a team successful without resorting to match fixing???

you blasted someone else because they said Real was Franco's team. you said "Ferrol was his team, how stupid can you be?"

whether or not, he was a bandwagoner, whatever reason it was, he obviously claimed to be a Real Madrid fan, so don't tell others to get their facts straight when you dont even do it yourself.

I was using sarcasm, the point being he didn't do anything to make them unsuccessful in order to supress Catalan and Basque culture. It's all bullsh*t Barca "we have a victim complex" propaganda.

What's the link with Franco and Real Madrid though??? How was it his team if he didn't even like football, Franco would have been the equivalent of one of those asian guys who wears a Real Madrid cabernet because they had Beckham, the kind of person you ask what the result of the Real Madrid v Getafe game was and they shrug their shoulders. Just because Franco claimed to be a Real Madrid supporter doesn't make it true.

if he was a Real bandwagoner then Real was his team wasnt it??

anyways, I hope youre over trying to play down the history of Italian football. Third best only to the Brazilians and Germans, not something I'm embarrassed about. As for you think we play boring football, thats your problem. Get a subscription to RAI and try and watch Italy as a neutral rather than a hater.

Why third best ? personally would rather have 4 world cups and 1 euro than 3 world cups and 3 euro, Italys club teams have been more successful in european competition, and to add to that Italy always seem to beat the Germans

edit: & from my observations Madridista obviously has as someone mentioned an inferiority complex

[Madridista612]

I support the Best Club of the XX Century, why would I have an inferiority complex?? Success wise, no one can compete with Real Madrid.....and no one in our life times ever will...unless you plan to be around for the awarding of the XXI Century trophy.

[Piola]

I support the Best Club of the XX Century, why would I have an inferiority complex?? Success wise, no one can compete with Real Madrid.....and no one in our life times ever will...unless you plan to be around for the awarding of the XXI Century trophy.

no one can compete with Real Madrid, that's true

and as a national team only Brazil and Germany an compete with Italia

inferiority complex = going to great lengths to play down the success of a more successful nation

[El Pibe D'Oro]

I support the Best Club of the XX Century, why would I have an inferiority complex?? Success wise, no one can compete with Real Madrid.....and no one in our life times ever will...unless you plan to be around for the awarding of the XXI Century trophy.

And if you base your argument on that of winning and losing things, then your argument vs Italians loses every time.


NOW MY FREIND JUST DO US ALL AFAVOUR AND FAAAAAAARK OFF YOU C0*CKSMOKER.

[Madridista612]

I support the Best Club of the XX Century, why would I have an inferiority complex?? Success wise, no one can compete with Real Madrid.....and no one in our life times ever will...unless you plan to be around for the awarding of the XXI Century trophy.

And if you base your argument on that of winning and losing things, then your argument vs Italians loses every time.


NOW MY FREIND JUST DO US ALL AFAVOUR AND FAAAAAAARK OFF YOU C0*CKSMOKER.

As soon as you tell me how exactly a c*ock is smoked, I have no doubt you'd be the expert.

[Inter_boy;)]

I support the Best Club of the XX Century, why would I have an inferiority complex?? Success wise, no one can compete with Real Madrid.....and no one in our life times ever will...unless you plan to be around for the awarding of the XXI Century trophy.

Real Madrid dont compete in the Euro, i just assumed this topic was about naitonal teams

wouldnt be suprised if an ITALIAN team overtakes Madrids Record of 9 trophies though (BBilan have 7.. and most of them didnt take place 50 years ago)

[pires7]

It's great how football brings the whole world together :?