Recruitment vs Coaching

[mvsc]

An interesting argument that has come out of some posts Nuggett, myself, LRO etc have made in the Div 1 2012 coaches thread.

IMO at amateur level, recruitment is far more important than coaching. Gaining 3 or 4 players in key positions has the ability to significantly boost or drop a team from season to season. Even if you've got a dud coach, quality on the park is what really matters in our 'amateur' game. And even if you've got the best coach in the SAASL or the state, you can only get so much out of limited cattle.

Obviously the coach will have a significant say at this level in attracting players, so you can argue that recruiting is part of coaching anyway (but please, don't )

What are your thoughts?


(Out of interest, I heard this same argument on Triple M footy last Sunday or maybe the Sunday before, and it's been fresh in my mind since. One of the points 'for' the coaching being better is that good coaches develop a good 'culture' which breeds success, regardless of player quality).

[brooksy7]

I agree with you to a point, but the coaches effective communication and his ability to see the game and react to it are things a good/bad coach can have over his team. 3 or 4 qualitie players in 1 line of the field or another doesnt mean overall team success does it??

Good debate topic Fantasista

[Wraith]

I agree with you to a point, but the coaches effective communication and his ability to see the game and react to it are things a good/bad coach can have over his team. 3 or 4 qualitie players in 1 line of the field or another doesnt mean overall team success does it??

Good debate topic Fantasista

Couldn't agree more.

However if a coach can't recruit in Amateurs then he is set to struggle.

[KING NUGGETT]

with all due respect at amateur level the coaches only do so much. 3 or 4 key changes in personnel can either cause a team to shoot up or down the table.
recruitment is a much more important job than actual coaching. obviously cooky knows what he is doing given the recruitment at gardens in the last two years!

With all due respect fantasista DER...
Of couse Recruitment is VERY important as Florina has found out this year,
they weren't able to Recruit half of what they lost last year & are now fighting for survival.
Cooky on the other hand kept a core group of players together through bad times, lost a couple players who didn't believe!
Recuited what he neaded & will coach the Team next week or the week after to there 7 Major Trophy in 4 years.
To say that he is not a Major part of that success to total stupidity & disrespect...
,

[mvsc]

so which is it Nuggett? recruitment or coaching?

[KING NUGGETT]

so which is it Nuggett? recruitment or coaching?

WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR RECRUITMENT EINSTIEN??? THE FK'N TRAINER??? OR THE COACH???

[KVP]

This is an interesting topic.

Recruitment and coaching go hand in hand, both need to work otherwise having the best coach won't do it as will only having the best players.

I think a prime example of this is Fulham United. They have a decent squad, picked up a few players who can play, and still aren't doing very well. The Vale are an another example of a team with a great coach and havent had the best results lately either... Parafield on the otherhand have a good mix of both. For people to bring player payments into the fray is crap because yes of course money does talk but these players being paid good money still need to "want" to come out and play on a sunday and play good football. I think it takes a good coach to make top players play well.

[ontheblackburner]

with all due respect at amateur level the coaches only do so much. 3 or 4 key changes in personnel can either cause a team to shoot up or down the table.
recruitment is a much more important job than actual coaching. obviously cooky knows what he is doing given the recruitment at gardens in the last two years!

With all due respect fantasista DER...
Of couse Recruitment is VERY important as Florina has found out this year,
they weren't able to Recruit half of what they lost last year & are now fighting for survival.
Cooky on the other hand kept a core group of players together through bad times, lost a couple players who didn't believe!
Recuited what he neaded & will coach the Team next week or the week after to there 7 Major Trophy in 4 years.
To say that he is not a Major part of that success to total stupidity & disrespect...
,

We've recruited some very talented youngsters this year who are adjusting to life in the SAASL. If these boys decide to hang around, then we have a great base for future years. Trev is guiding these boys and he is doing a great job considering where we were before he took over. We've only had one league loss at home since Trev took over (2-0 to Farm).

Yes we are struggling but as u know Nuggett football can be a cunt of a game sometimes. We had two clear goals disallowed by linesman against you guys and the vale, hit the post twice against the pontians at home (2-2 draw), a dive given as a penalty against the grove (2-2 draw) at home - could of been a much different.

Not making excuses, we've had a bad year but personally i think we've recruited well considering the players we lost.

[gee_kay]

An interesting debate I think it has more to do with coaching. My question for u blackburner is this was Manca the man for the job? Or has u kept Azza would he have got the best out of what u have?

[ontheblackburner]

An interesting debate I think it has more to do with coaching. My question for u blackburner is this was Manca the man for the job? Or has u kept Azza would he have got the best out of what u have?

Thats a question of 'ifs' and 'maybes' - Trev is the head coach and has done a good job considering.

[Jay Walking]

Interesting debate.

Personally, I think its 50/50. You need to have the cattle to perform but you also need the coach to lead, guide, direct and motivate. If players don't like the coach or don't respect him, you can't get the best out of them. If you can't get good quality players to your club, its hard to play a winning style.

Cooky is a good example of how once he got the cattle, he could achieve success. Money doesn't always mean success and neither does a great coach. A mix of both plus a good core group of players is what's needed.

[gee_kay]

i agree that since Trev has taken over he has done a fair job but that must then show that coaching is the key to success.

[#Thirteen]

They go hand in hand
Recruitment is key.... there are many examples where good coaches haven't had the cattle (for many reasons, inc $$), haven't achieved results and had their "brand" tarnished

on the flip side

You can assemble a good squad but without a good manager success isn't guaranteed. Eleven players aren't going to win you the league, depth is important esp in amateurs (15-18) therefore putting a massive importance on the coach to manage their squad ( and egos) through 18 games plus cup fixtures.......as well as the technical side of the game

[KING NUGGETT]

Interesting debate.

Personally, I think its 50/50. You need to have the cattle to perform but you also need the coach to lead, guide, direct and motivate. If players don't like the coach or don't respect him, you can't get the best out of them. If you can't get good quality players to your club, its hard to play a winning style.

Cooky is a good example of how once he got the cattle, he could achieve success. Cooky was responsable for the rectuitment Money doesn't always mean success and neither does a great coach. A mix of both plus a good core group of players is what's needed.

so which is it Nuggett? recruitment or coaching?

WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR RECRUITMENT??? THE TRAINER??? OR THE COACH???

50/50 I would think 95% of a Clubs Recruiting is done by the Coach ....

[mvsc]

ok then Nuggett to narrow it down further - let's assume that the coach does all the recruiting - what is the more important part of his role -

the day-to-day (or training / gameday) coaching

or

the recruitment of quality players

[Jay Walking]

Interesting debate.

Personally, I think its 50/50. You need to have the cattle to perform but you also need the coach to lead, guide, direct and motivate. If players don't like the coach or don't respect him, you can't get the best out of them. If you can't get good quality players to your club, its hard to play a winning style.

Cooky is a good example of how once he got the cattle, he could achieve success. Cooky was responsable for the rectuitment Money doesn't always mean success and neither does a great coach. A mix of both plus a good core group of players is what's needed.

so which is it Nuggett? recruitment or coaching?

WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR RECRUITMENT??? THE TRAINER??? OR THE COACH???

50/50 I would think 95% of a Clubs Recruiting is done by the Coach ....

I think Lefty does a bit of work also. Wouldn't sell him short of the work he does there.

[Zelks]

The coach recruits the players he/she wants to play for their particular club for many reasons:

Depth of the Squad
Targeting and therefore satisfying a particular need (eg. A faster/mobile striker instead of a slow/physical striker)...
and the list goes on.

The coaches job is to recruit the team/players, work with the team he/she has at their disposal, if the coach and the team do not perform, well as we all know - the coach is first to go, and to say 'we recruited badly' is just poor form on the coaches behalf.

So coaching = recruiting/tactics/training/sponsors involvement etc...A good coach delegates some things to his assistant/player group etc, but the buck stops with the coach!

Also to add, if players don't want to play for the coach and no matter if they do or don't get paid, No matter how good of a coach you are - his/her job becames extremely difficult - so in my view 'recruiting' the right players to the club is without a doubt one of the coaches biggest decisions!

[KING NUGGETT]

I think Lefty does a bit of work also. Wouldn't sell him short of the work he does there.

NOT SELLING ANYONE SHORT JAY HIS AGKNOWLEDGED FOR HIS WORK AS CHAIRMAN,
READ WHAT I WROTE JAY 95% OF THE CLUBS RECRUITING HAS BEEN DONE BY THE COACH.
WHY???
BECAUSE IT'S HIS JOB!!! HE KNOWS WHAT HE NEEDS & WHAT HE WANTS...

WHAT TOTALLY FK'S ME OFF IS, IT'S NOT THE CHAIRMAN OR THE PLAYERS WHO GETS THE CRITICISM & THEN BOOT WHEN A TEAM FAILS,
IT'S THE COACH, BUT WHEN A TEAM STARTS TO GET RESULTS IT'S THE PLAYERS & THE CHAIRMAN.
WTF??? WHO WOULD BE A COACH???

[Jay Walking]

I think Lefty does a bit of work also. Wouldn't sell him short of the work he does there.

NOT SELLING ANYONE SHORT JAY HIS AGKNOWLEDGED FOR HIS WORK AS CHAIRMAN,
READ WHAT I WROTE JAY 95% OF THE CLUBS RECRUITING HAS BEEN DONE BY THE COACH.
WHY???
BECAUSE IT'S HIS JOB!!! HE KNOWS WHAT HE NEEDS & WHAT HE WANTS...

I'm saying that it wouldn't be that high, Lefty would do more that 5% of the clubs recruiting. Not that I know but I know who he talks to. I have my spy's out there

[Outlaw 2.0]

Interesting debate.

Personally, I think its 50/50. You need to have the cattle to perform but you also need the coach to lead, guide, direct and motivate. If players don't like the coach or don't respect him, you can't get the best out of them. If you can't get good quality players to your club, its hard to play a winning style.

Cooky is a good example of how once he got the cattle, he could achieve success. Cooky was responsable for the rectuitment Money doesn't always mean success and neither does a great coach. A mix of both plus a good core group of players is what's needed.

so which is it Nuggett? recruitment or coaching?

WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR RECRUITMENT??? THE TRAINER??? OR THE COACH???

50/50 I would think 95% of a Clubs Recruiting is done by the Coach ....

I never thought I would say it but, I agree with Nugget here. Regardless of who is in the side the coach does the bulk of recruiting and chooses who plays on game day.

I still believe in a Coach/Manager partnership which has a Manager to recruit and pick the side for gameday and a Coach to push players at training and take warm ups etc etc.

[swannsong]

Recruiting often comes from the coach, some from the players network and sometimes even the real estate adage counts...location, location, location !!!!

[mvsc]

so at our amateur level, what's the more important part of the coaches role -

recruiting players or the actual training / match-day coaching?

[LosMerengues20]

Great topic first of all, and some great points for both sides of the argument.
IMO recruitment seems to be a key factor in success, especially in higher divisions, BUT!
With good players unfortunately in some cases come big egos. This is where good coaching and squad management comes in. If you don't have a coach who can control the personalities in the team, quality will only get you so far. Eventually egos will clash, someone won't be unhappy that they've been dropped, and the whole team can implode.