Cup Round 2 - Teams remaining

[Super_Trooper]

Premier / State League
Adelaide City Premier
Adelaide Hills State
Sturt Marion Premier
Cumberland United Premier
Adelaide Uni State
Adelaide Olympic Premier
MUWFC Magic Premier
Parafield Gardens State


Division 1 & 2
Para Hills East Div 2
Seaford Div 1
Adelaide Comets Div 2
Adelaide Uni Div 2
Stirling Div 1
Adelaide City Div 1
MUWFC Magic Div 1
Western Toros Div 1


Division 3 & 4 & 5
NAB Div 3
Para Hills United Div 4
MOSA Div 4
Para Hills United Div 5
Seymour Div 3
Flinders Flames Div 4
Adelaide Uni Div 4
Pulteney Div 5
Elizabeth Vale Div 3
Elizabeth Grove Div 3
Flinders Flames Div 5
Salisbury United Div 3
Munno Para Div 5
Raiders Div 4
Brahma Lodge Div 5
Salisbury Inter Div 4


Under 17
Cumberland United
Fulham United
Western Toros
Sturt Marion
Adelaide Hills
Adelaide Uni
Para Hills Knights
South Adelaide


Under 15
U15 Red Campbelltown City
U15 Blue Adelaide Blue Eagles
U15 Red Fulham United
U15 Red Cumberland United
U15 Red Adelaide Uni
U15 Red South Adelaide
U15 Blue Parafield Gardens
U15 Purple Cumberland United
U15 Purple Adelaide Olympic
U15 Blue Adelaide City
U15 Blue Para Hills East
U15 Purple Gawler
U15 Red Adelaide Jaguars
U15 Blue Pirates
U15 Red Adelaide City
U15 Purple Para Hills East

Under 13
U13 Red Adelaide Hills
U13 Red Adelaide City
U13 Blue Fulham United
U13 Blue Adelaide Uni
U13 Blue South Adelaide
U13 Red Campbelltown
U13 Blue Para Hills East Black
U13 Blue MUWFC Magic
U13 Red Adelaide Blue Eagles
U13 Black Para Hills East Red
U13 Red Fulham United
U13 Red Adelaide Cobras
U13 Blue Adelaide Jaguars
U13 Red Para Hills East
U13 Blue Para Hills United
U13 Red Cumberland United

[Super_Trooper]

Because I totally have nothing better to do on a Monday but look over the weekends results - Interesting to see that the two clubs with the largest amount of teams still remaining in the Cup Rounds are Adelaide Uni and Para Hills East (both which are NOT Premier League Clubs).....

Clearly shows that these clubs are obviously doing something right in retaining players and able to fill teams without needing to offer the 'premier' status which I personally think is great to see!!

Next two largest clubs are Cumberland and Adelaide City which are generally strong clubs in senior and junior competitions...

6 TEAMS
Adelaide Uni – State, Div 2, Div 4, U17, U15 Red, U13 Blue
Para Hills East – Div 2, U15 Blue, U15 Purple, U13 Blue, U13 Blue, U13 Red

5 TEAMS
Adelaide City – Premier, Division 1, U15 Red, U15 Blue, U13 Red
Cumberland United – Premier, U17, U15 Red U15 Purple, U13 Red



Cannot wait to see the next Cup Round draw!!!!

[nanstar]

haha nice work Super T.. WHEN IS THE NEXT ROUND BEING DRAWN?! the suspense is already killing me

[Super_Trooper]

Not sure when it's being drawn... I think it'd be soon tho?!?!

[Stand Strong]

It may be interesting for your information that all junior teams at para hills east had byes for the first round of the cup be interesting to see how many are remaining after the second cup round but i wish them the best of luck with that i must say.

[juniorsupporter]

Pretty sure that Para Hills East girls' U17's played on the weekend (see topic FFSA Cup Round 1 Results)-... :? Of course best of luck to the remaining Easties...

[Super_Trooper]

Nice spotting hairyd|ck..... Alas as much time I appear to have on my hands I did not check for win/bye ratios! lol!

[Enrique]

Can Premier Reserve players play in the Social Div 1/2 Cup games???????

[Super_Trooper]

Players must play a minimum of 5 games in the relevant league competition to be eligible to play in the respective cup competition Semi-final and Final games.


I'm player at Adelaide City (Div 1) and for the first time in 14+ years of playing football we had a player card check as requested by Para Hills East (Div 2) before our cup game.

Pity the ref had no idea what to do and it ended up being was both teams lining up on the line and each coach looking at the oppositions cards to make sure the players matched their own card...

Fair annoying since it wasted our girls warm up time prior to a cup game and esentially nothing was gained by PHE.

Even if we DID have reserve players PHE wouldnt have even know considering they didnt even know where our home pitch was and had to call to ask lol let alone the differences between our reserves and div 1 team !!

[pc9999]

Can Premier Reserve players play in the Social Div 1/2 Cup games???????

Well why not if they have a team the girls can move as the club sees fit assuming no cup ties. (Goal keepers excluded)
But I think the finals are restricted to min games or something.

[pc9999]

I'm player at Adelaide City (Div 1) and for the first time in 14+ years of playing football we had a player card check as requested by Para Hills East (Div 2) before our cup game.

When I coached I called for them if I was suspect of overage players. Also, I had it called on me a few times too and in each case we were aware/prepared for it.

Fair annoying since it wasted our girls warm up time prior to a cup game and esentially nothing was gained by PHE.

I think it did as intended, put you out.

Even if we DID have reserve players PHE wouldnt have even know considering they didnt even know where our home pitch was and had to call to ask lol let alone the differences between our reserves and div 1 team !!

It would have been your prerogative to field anyone eligible. The Resi girls are not cup tied.
If you think about it
Pretty much all the teams had access to the Res players
6 can go straight to the 15s 1 to the 13s and all are available for prems (or Div 1).
Unlike other clubs AC did not do this, I for one am glad as it is undermining the work of the respective teams they got this far on their merits let them go and enjoy the games.

[Super_Trooper]

Yeah I know what you mean - We had def. had our own Reserve players approach us to play in our cup in both rounds 1 and 2 but there is no way in this world I would drop my own team players to play some reserves "for the chance" to advance to the next round..

We play as a team and we stick together as a team - sadly we lost on the day but we now recover as a team too and I wouldnt want it any other way...

[nanstar]

in 2009 Campbelltown called a card check on our then div 2 side because they suspected that one of our players was a prems player. yes it disrupted our warm up. We went on to win the game and the card check was useless for them. just annoying.

Obviously the other team won't know if a particular player has played prems or not , or if they've played more than 5 games, but FFSA will know. So teams use the card check to make sure that players are going under the right name. if everyone is using their real name then FFSA would check to see if they are cup tied or not. so the opposition team doesn't need to know everything when they card check, just that players are playing under their real name. If a team is using the real name of their players then you can pretty much be assured that they've been honest.

[Tony_Mowbray]

in 2009 Campbelltown called a card check on our then div 2 side because they suspected that one of our players was a prems player. yes it disrupted our warm up. We went on to win the game and the card check was useless for them. just annoying.

Obviously the other team won't know if a particular player has played prems or not , or if they've played more than 5 games, but FFSA will know. So teams use the card check to make sure that players are going under the right name. if everyone is using their real name then FFSA would check to see if they are cup tied or not. so the opposition team doesn't need to know everything when they card check, just that players are playing under their real name. If a team is using the real name of their players then you can pretty much be assured that they've been honest.

Hey there!!
Just an interested reader here as a lower division team has also just appealed on this ruling and has been told that the ruling "Players must play a minimum of 5 games in the relevant league competition to be eligible to play in the respective cup competition Semi-final and Final games. Only applies to the Semi final and finals cup games (WTF??).
I have since found that the club in question was told "players questioned were eligible to play in this cup game as they had not played at a higher level in round 1" the 5 game ruling did not apply (WTF?? x 2)

[Super_Trooper]

You are correct Tony...

EXAMPLE - If a Division 1 team had made it through Round 1 with their own team and in Round 2 decided to play some state league players who hadnt played in their own state league cup then they would be allowed to. The state league players would then only then be allowed to advance to the semi finals with the division 1 team IF they had played a minimum of 5 league games with the Division 1 team and not played in any state league cup games

NOTE - If the state league player has been on the match card OR played at any point in a state league cup game they cannot at any point play in a lower division cup game UNLESS they are a goal keeper

Hope this helps - Sorry for the essay but I'm bored at work

[pc9999]

I can see so many holes in the 5 game logic.
a) if the player in div x for various reasons hasn't played more than 5 games yet they have been part of the squad from day 1 and not played in another div/team then they are ineligible.

b) Team X can include player 1 on 5 team sheets yet player 1 is not even on the bench but they play prems yet they are still eligible.

c) With byes/illness etc perhaps 20% of the squad have not played sufficient games to be eligible. So if they do get to the finals they can only field 9 players.

Finally, whatever criteria FFSA comes up with they can always be circumvented if you realise quickly enough.

In the case of AC div1, they could have loaded with the reserves from Round 1, have 3 diff res players on their teamsheets play their normal squad during the week then after 5 weeks they have access to 15 res players for cup finals.

Guess who would win?

[Unretired]

i think there is also a rule that you can only move down to the next lowest team.....

so prems can only move down to reserves...

reserves can only move down to the next lowest team that your club has.

[juniorsupporter]

As posted in "Cup Tied" thread by Super_Trooper:


SUMMARY OF ADDITIONAL CUP COMPETITION RULES

Player Movement and Eligibility

• Players must play a minimum of 5 games in the relevant league competition to be eligible to
play in the respective cup competition Semi-final and Final games.

• A player may move up and play in the Premier Division Cup Competition Semi-Final and/or
final if they have played a minimum of five games for their respective club. Once a player has moved up, they are not permitted to move back down.

Example

• To be eligible to play in the Under 17 Cup Semi-Final or Final, a player must have played a
minimum of 5 league games in the Under 17 League.

• A player that has played for the Under 17 Team or Division 2 team is eligible to play for the
Premier Division Team in the semi-final and/or final if they have played a minimum of 5
games within the club.

• Once a player has played for a club in a cup competition, the player is unable to play for any other club in the cup competition for that season.

• Where FFSA conducts a number of cup competition, the information outlined below indicates when a player is or is not cup-tied:

• If a player plays in an Under Age Cup Competition, they may move up and play for their club in the next under age cup competition or Open Age Cup Competition, if age permits and if they have played the required number of games.

• Once a player has moved up to the next age level or open age cup competition they are NOT PERMITTED to move back down.

• Once a player has played in an Open Division Cup Competition they are PERMITTED to
move up to a cup competition that is deemed to be of a higher standard if they have played
the required number of games.

• Once a player has played in a higher cup competition, they are NOT PERMITTED to move
down.

• A goalkeeper from a lower division team may move up and play in a higher cup
competition and then move back down to the lower division cup competition.

Example

• An Under 17 Goalkeeper may move up and play in the Division 1 and 2 Cup and then move
back down to the Under 17 Cup Competition.

• A Goalkeeper from the Division 2 Team may move up and play in the Premier Division Cup
and then move back down to the Division 2

[Tony_Mowbray]

Hey thanks for all that .. most of which makes some sense, but Im still confused a little over the up and down player movement.

No where in the additional cup competition rules does it say anything about only applying to cup rounds ie my point on the FFSA ruling "players questioned were eligible to play in this cup game as they had not played at a higher level in round 1". Where is this stated?

All other rules other than those specified in "Additional Cup rules" surely must apply to all competitions league and cup equally. In which case the maximum number of player movements is 3, or am I wrong?

[The General]

Players must play a minimum of 5 games in the relevant league competition to be eligible to play in the respective cup competition Semi-final and Final games.


I'm player at Adelaide City (Div 1) and for the first time in 14+ years of playing football we had a player card check as requested by Para Hills East (Div 2) before our cup game.

Pity the ref had no idea what to do and it ended up being was both teams lining up on the line and each coach looking at the oppositions cards to make sure the players matched their own card...

Fair annoying since it wasted our girls warm up time prior to a cup game and esentially nothing was gained by PHE.

Even if we DID have reserve players PHE wouldnt have even know considering they didnt even know where our home pitch was and had to call to ask lol let alone the differences between our reserves and div 1 team !!

It is not you they were questioning,it is the club you play for, I take it you have not been with same club all this time ?

[Super_Trooper]

I've been with Adelaide City for 10+ years General

I can see so many holes in the 5 game logic.
a) if the player in div x for various reasons hasn't played more than 5 games yet they have been part of the squad from day 1 and not played in another div/team then they are ineligible.

b) Team X can include player 1 on 5 team sheets yet player 1 is not even on the bench but they play prems yet they are still eligible.

c) With byes/illness etc perhaps 20% of the squad have not played sufficient games to be eligible. So if they do get to the finals they can only field 9 players.

Finally, whatever criteria FFSA comes up with they can always be circumvented if you realise quickly enough.

In the case of AC div1, they could have loaded with the reserves from Round 1, have 3 diff res players on their teamsheets play their normal squad during the week then after 5 weeks they have access to 15 res players for cup finals.

Guess who would win?

In answer to your bullet points...

a) + b) + c) Rulings state that you need to play the 5 games however if you wanted an exemption from this e.g. player injured and has only returned mid-season yet has been part of and training with division x team for the entire time .... I think the team needs to put something in writing via their club delegate and forwarded to FFSA which is then discussed during competition meeting for a decision to be made... Seems only fair to allow that player to play but who knows!!

For AC1 as I mentioned previously we def. had reserve players approach us to play in our cup rounds as they didnt have their own cup to play in. AC1 is a large squad (19 players but 2 have semi-permanent injuries) so each week for standard league games we would have Full team sheet of 16 + 1 with an injury or away. We discussed having reserve players ask to play in our team and we unanimously agreed as a team that its not fair to bring in available reserve players and not play our own girls who train and play in the team week in and out - to me this is only common sense.. We played our 2 rounds as a team and we bombed out as a team and we wouldnt have it any other way!!

Looking at the discussions though we could have brought down some reserve players for the first 2 rounds and if we had the space on our team sheets(!) put them on our team sheets for league games (regardless if they played or not) to make them eligible for cup semi finals & finals....

Don't think there is any ruling with FFSA about players being on two team sheets at different locations?!!?!??!!?

Not a bad thought hey - Wonder if this happened at other clubs or in previous years?!!?!

[pc9999]

Not a bad thought hey - Wonder if this happened at other clubs or in previous years?!!?!

I know for Junior boys
same player was not allowed on 2 Teamsheets in 1 day.
it was done and nothing happened though
I think if someone complains then it is followed up.
an eg
game at an away ground 16s were short they asked for one of the 15s who had just played and player was willing to bench and rotate but one of the opposition reps noticed it and pointed it out so he was removed from the sheet and not allowed to play.

Girls/Women may be different, I think this was to avoid overdoing it for the younger ones who never say no.

[juniorsupporter]

Girls must be different because many girls each weekend, normally because of player shortages, play 2 games for two different teams within their clubs on a weekend. Happens routinely at many clubs.

[Super_Trooper]

Yeah I know plenty players play two games but what I meant was.. Having a player on two different team sheets but who is at two different locations

E.G. Reserves playing at Fulham and Divison 1 playing at Stirling both with 1pm kick off. Betty Sue is put of both match cards but only plays the 1 game with the Reserves team but is still put on Division 1 team sheet. This is done during the lead up to cup so Betty Sue who has not physically played a game for division 1 still 'qualifies' to play cup round games with Division 1 cup team

Not every lower division team always has a full team sheet - interchange is available for reserves and social divisions so the ref won't mark who has come on and off....

Very much a sneaky tactic and technically not cheating as I don't think you're breaking any rules?!?!?!

Thoughts...............

[The General]

[quote="Super_Trooper"]I've been with Adelaide City for 10+ years General

Your loyalty is to be admired Super T.
I was involved with a U/15B team a few years ago, and I couldnt believe we were asked to show our player passes by the opposition coach and assistant coaches ( it was not your club ) I was very suprised,as we werent setting the world alight.

They didnt take into consideration "Guest Players", of which we had 3 that game.It actually fired us up,and made us try even harder,what they thought was going to be a game to improve their goal average,ended up with us just losing 2-1.

Several years ago,I was helping a club in the bottom division ( Seniors ) and we drew Ade City Res in the first round of the Cup ( days when all the teams from all divisions played in one cup ). We played their team in our division and they walloped us 10-1,there was talk of forfeit,no way I was going to let that happen. You have to understand we were a new team,only 2 girls in the team had ever played soccer before ever,rest were brand new.
I was a bit suprised when we played Adel City Res in the Cup,they included 3 premier players as well ( all Prem teams got a bye in the first round )even after what their div 3 side did to us ??? Again,we used that to fire us up,only lost 5-0.but to us,that was a victory.

My point being,while there is a competition,there will always be clubs who will exploit rules to the fullest,because their priority is how many trophies their club will pickup on presentation night.
I would not complain too much about what other clubs do,unless your house is not made of glass.

[Easy Tiger]

Just out of curiosity General, how many years was that?

[The General]

Just out of curiosity General, how many years was that?

2001 - if you are asking about the Cup game,
2009 if you are asking about the Under15s game - sorry for the late reply,dont have computer access on weekends.