An Outsider Looks at Juventus

[Blue Mastiff]

There’s no question that Juve is yet again plunged into a crisis. After a year in which we conceded record amount of goals, tallied up new levels of losses, and finished 7th…we find ourselves in a similar situation. Being a fan of the club makes it harder to be objective, we all have our favorites and our biases. To that end, I asked an outsider to give his opinion on Juventus, someone who knows what’s going on and is removed enough from the emotional state to offer a fully objective opinion. So I chose a man who follows Serie A closely, and who’s opinion I respect immensely- Lorenzo Vicini of the Palermo Offside. I asked him to give his opinion on the club: I had no idea what his take would be. Without any further introduction, here it is-

It’s Not All Black & White

The 2010-11 season brought much expectation for the bianconeri faithful. The overwhelming belief was that this would be the year that Juventus returned to greatness – back amongst the Serie A elite where they have always been throughout much of their glorious history. Yet, with only nine games remaining, the Old Lady find themselves in seventh place, but more importantly eleven points adrift of fourth place. Barring a miraculous turnaround, Juventus will once again miss out on the Champions League causing much consternation and discord among the fan base. Such is the disappointment that many fans are already calling for the head of first year coach Gigi Delneri. But, is sacking the coach really the answer? The issue is not just simply black and white.

Since returning to the top flight in 2007, Juventus has finished in 3rd, 2nd and 7th place respectively while currently sitting in 7th place this year as well. After achieving real success in the two years that followed promotion, many wonder why Juventus hasn’t been able to get over the hump and legitimately challenge for the scudetto. The underlying answer can be found in the way the club was mismanaged during the Secco years, which was initially masked by the great finishes in 2007 and 2008. With the club mired in mediocrity this season, the new management at Juventus is taking the brunt of the criticism for the poor results.

And yet, even though the season started off promising, it was always going to be a difficult affair for the dynamic duo of Beppe Marotta and Gigi Delneri – fresh off their incredible run with Sampdoria a year earlier.. The fact of the matter is that for a club that expects and demands immediate results, patience is not an option. However, it should be. The successes of the past were rooted in years of hard work and consistency, not frequent turnover.

One of the chiefest of problems has been the Juventus transfer policy over the past few seasons. Marotta did not have much time to virtually start from scratch with what his predecessor left him. Juventus had one offseason to try and bring in quality players – not just quality in name, but up to the standard that Juve demands. Not only that, but the club also had to offload players who were not up to par. It was a tall task and one that had its shortcomings. The bianconeri brought in some potentially great players (Aquilani, Krasic, Quagliarella) while also signing ones who do not live up to the gold standard (Martinez, Rinaudo, Motta, Traore). They sent some of the waste from years’ past away (Zebina, Molinaro, Poulsen) while allowing some true talent to escape them (Caceres, Diego, Trezeguet).

As with any transition, it takes time for achievements to be seen. Delneri came in with plenty of pressure on his shoulders to reverse a negative trend in a short amount of time. The season has had plenty of highs and lows but with the recent revelation that his side will most likely not make the Champions League, disappointment has reigned supreme. Surely, Delneri has a part in the blame for the club’s plight, but he is far from the sole point of reference nor even its main one.

Sacking Delneri at this point would be foolish. First, it serves no purpose as the club is not risking anything by keeping him on board. Second, as the past dismissals/resignations of Ranieri and Ferrara have proven, there is little to gain by bringing in a caretaker. Third, Juventus has a history of sticking by their coaching appointments until the end. It wasn’t until recently that this trend of sacking coaches became popular in the bianconeri camp. The Juve mentality is one that has stood as an example to the rest of the league – you fight through each game and you do so until the end.

Perhaps it may be absurd to entertain such a notion, but I believe that Marotta and Delneri should not only stay on until the end of the season, but also be given an opportunity to regroup and further establish a team under their guidance going into the 2011-12 season. Why on earth would anyone even think that to be a good idea? Well, there’s a perfect case-study in Serie A that shows what happens when a team resorts to restarting season after season.

Take my beloved Palermo. Here is a club that is bursting with potential – and has been for the last few years now. The Sicilians found themselves on the cusp of uncharted territory in its history with qualification to the Champions League. The team finally had a coach who produced tremendous results, while being in complete harmony (and friendship) with the DS. Everything was coming together and a true project seemed to be in place. But the pieces started to fall apart slowly but surely during this season.

The beginning of the end came with the DS resigning over “differences” with the president. Several months later, after a poor run of results, the president demolished his own project by sacking the club’s greatest coach in its Serie A history. The new caretaker who was brought in has not done anything to make the situation any better and in reality, has made the club play worse. The end of the season threatens to set the club back significantly with several key pieces likely to be sold off. Once again, Palermo will have to rebuild. It’s a vicious cycle that has prevented Palermo from making that final step to legitimacy amongst the Serie A elite; but with Zamparini calling the shots, it is something that is practically inevitable.

The beauty for Juventus is that they don’t have to worry about a situation like the one mentioned above. While the Old Lady expects titles, it can also rest assured that the ability to establish a plan will not be ruined year in and year out. It takes time to create a winner. The glorious years under Lippi and Capello did not come about because of a single offseason. There was a project in place and a plan to follow. While Marotta and Delneri find themselves in an unparalleled time in the club’s history due to a myriad of factors, the duo deserve the faith of the fan base in order to rewire the club back to its glory days.

Even the casual observer can see that this year’s Juventus have shown positives not seen in the club over the past few years. There is certainly progress being made and one would think that should the current management be allowed to continue on, it wouldn’t be long until real success returns. Above all, continuity is crucial to Juventus. The fans expect it, the players know it and the club demands it. This Juventus is slowly turning the tide befallen them since Calciopoli and a return to greatness may be just around the corner. Only time will tell…if it is allowed to be given.

[Juventino]

I too do not think Delneri should be sacked. Two reasons, firstly Rome was not built in a day and thus it takes time to build a team. You cannot just dismantle a team and expect it to be quality 6 months later. 2011 has been disappointing but it could be a blessing in disguise to miss out on Europe and concentrate on Serie A next season. Secondly, besides Spalletti, what good coaches out there could you get (and he may not even be available)?

Next season I'd be looking at the Milan transfer route - I still don't rate the squad as a whole but they bought three or four quality players to take it to the next level and that is what Juventus needs.

[Milos#27]

It is hard to believe that we have continued to decline in such a fashion since we returned from Serie B, I think that our tendecy to get rid of trainers prematurely is suprising considering the average life spans of coaches pre calciopoli. Also I don't believe the current playing group is as good as the one first year back in Serie A and the decline must be at least in part attributed to the retirement, sale or ageing legs of our best players from the last decade.

The footballing philosphy that accompanied the appointment of Ciro Ferrara and the arrival of several big name players promised the bianconeri faithful that this would be a new skilful Juventus team that would challenge for the scudetto whilst playing an attractive brand of football. This excited me as I'm sure it did many Juve fans, but I could see from the outset that this would be a tremendous challenge for Ferrara being his first major club gig but also because Juve have never really played (at least not in my time) the attractive style of football attributed to the likes of Barcelona and Arsenal. Low and behold the project started with promise but soon nosedived as the season crumbled and Ferrara was given his marching orders only to be replaced by a subpar coach. It would have served the clubs interests better to leave Ferrara on, analyze the problems in the off-season and seek to rectify them for the next. However I must point out that Ferrara clearly wasn't comfortable in playing a system that employed a trequartista and you could see tactically he was out of his depth on numerous occasions, it just took a while to catch up with him.

The appointment of Del Neri meant that the club had to change playing personnel and the exisiting players had to learn a new system and style of coaching methods for the third time in under a year. Again a huge ask for everyone involved. I must also point out that again the playing group is still not strong enough, even though some quality players were added all be it the majority of them on loan. But for every quality player at least two average players were added, a waste of money and potentially keeping a younger player schooled in the Juventus ways out of the team. But I must point out that Del Neri is used to coaching teams that don't control the majority of possesion and catch the opposition on the counter with swift passing moves, this is how his teams in the past have been set up. This does not suit Juventus even with the addition of some new players.

These tactical and personnel shortfalls coupled with our unbelievable list of injuries year after year (seriously are they training on concrete or something) means that Juventus will probably embark on their umpteenth rebuilding project at the end of this year.

My opinion they should keep Del Neri on longer just for continuity. Apologies also for the rant, I've been wanting to get that off my chest for a while...also feel free correct me on anything.

[Juventino]

Regarding injuries, one of the first things Agnelli did when appointed president was to look at the Vinovo training area and see why there were so many muscle related injuries. Changes were made, for example to the surface, and the number of training injuries and muscle related ones has dropped significantly this season. The team of doctors from the Secco era were also shown the door. Most of the injuries that have occured this season have been in-game. Sometimes there is nothing you can do about those.

[David Puddy]

The point made about Juve following Milan's transfer policy is the right one I think.
I've said before that many people had written Milan off after last season and stated that their squad needed a complete overhaul. Well they only really signed a couple of big names and all of a sudden it's turned around for them.
All Juve really need is 2 full backs, a left winger and maybe another striker if only one of Quags and Matri is kept at the end of the season.
In regards to Del Neri and Marrotta, I'm still undecided. Del Neri's inability to ever change formation or respond to opposition's tactical changes cannot continue, as evidenced with him taking Krasic off at the weekend which cost us the game (Along with giving another opportunity to one of the worst right backs I have ever seen in Motta).
We still have a lot of dead wood such as Grygera, Amauri, Tiago, Iaquinta, Salihamidzic, Grosso, Rinaudo, Traore who can be moved on at seasons end, giving us some money to play with in the transfer market.
Hopefully all of this accompanied with the opening of the new stadium will give us the much needed boost we need to regain CL football.

[Juventino]

Rinaudo and Traore are only loans, but the rest on that list do need to go. That would free up around 15-20 million when you factor in transfer fees and wages. We will sign Matri, Quagliarella and Sorensen on their pre-arranged deals while I am fairly certain Pepe will be signed. Aquilani on the other hand is a doubt with all the rumours and news surrounding the deal. Motta won't be retained, nor Rinaudo and I don't think Traore has an option to buy attached with his loan.

Sissoko will go so we need a central midfielder. Goalkeeper, left-back and center of defence I think are fine but right-back is a must. Possibly a left-winger, just depends on how Marchisio is used.

Matri, Quagliarella, Del Piero and Toni will be the strike force for next season at this stage. Ideally Toni would piss off but Del Piero is a must. He adds something different to those others up front and has linked up well with Quagliarella and now Matri.

[DOC]

that is the problem much like roma, and even liverpool in the epl, relying on the greats too much, these teams are in trouble and people can only look to totti, gerrard and del piero for inspiration, they are great players yes but these teams lack depth in quality

all 3 needs inspirational signings that can lift a team of his own back, look at what tevez has done for most of his time at city, you need something like that

[bapa]

that is the problem much like roma, and even liverpool in the epl, relying on the greats too much, these teams are in trouble and people can only look to totti, gerrard and del piero for inspiration, they are great players yes but these teams lack depth in quality

all 3 needs inspirational signings that can lift a team of his own back, look at what tevez has done for most of his time at city, you need something like that

ps, man city have spent way too much money on players. Dont think Juve can afford it, tbh!

[DOC]

that is the problem much like roma, and even liverpool in the epl, relying on the greats too much, these teams are in trouble and people can only look to totti, gerrard and del piero for inspiration, they are great players yes but these teams lack depth in quality

all 3 needs inspirational signings that can lift a team of his own back, look at what tevez has done for most of his time at city, you need something like that

ps, man city have spent way too much money on players. Dont think Juve can afford it, tbh!

it was an example

[David Puddy]

Rinaudo and Traore are only loans, but the rest on that list do need to go. That would free up around 15-20 million when you factor in transfer fees and wages. We will sign Matri, Quagliarella and Sorensen on their pre-arranged deals while I am fairly certain Pepe will be signed. Aquilani on the other hand is a doubt with all the rumours and news surrounding the deal. Motta won't be retained, nor Rinaudo and I don't think Traore has an option to buy attached with his loan.

Sissoko will go so we need a central midfielder. Goalkeeper, left-back and center of defence I think are fine but right-back is a must. Possibly a left-winger, just depends on how Marchisio is used.

Matri, Quagliarella, Del Piero and Toni will be the strike force for next season at this stage. Ideally Toni would piss off but Del Piero is a must. He adds something different to those others up front and has linked up well with Quagliarella and now Matri.

Speaking of left backs, wasn't De Ceglie meant to be back at the end of February?
How far away is he with his injury now?

[Juventino]

Good question. Been a while since we've heard anything about it too. It's a shame because he was looking good before the injury. Along with Quagliarella's injury, De Ceglie's was perhaps the most vital because of the way Delneri set the team up.

[Milos#27]

There is no doubt that we are in need of at least four quality players to compete for the scudetto and a champions league place next year. But if Del Neri remains we will again buy to suit his rigid 4-4-2 system, which I still maintain isn't the best for Juve. But if thats the way they go probably in their best interests to sign Quagliarella, Matri and Sorensen permanently. I think Pepe will also stay as he is versatile and I think his purchase fee is around 7 million Euros. The rest (Motta, Rinaudo, Traore etc.) need to go. I would like to see Aquilani stay but it looks unlikely (at least from latest reports) that Juve will take is option up.

You'd expect them to sell the deadwood Amauri, Iaquinta, Grygera, Grosso etc but also I would'nt mind seeing the backs of Melo, Martinez and Toni as they are useless and overpaid. We are in no doubt in need of a left and right back and also a left winger and if possible a central midfielder and a striker.

For a left back Coentrao is good option but a cheaper option might be Baines, although I havent seen much of him. At right back Andreas Beck is young and would also be financially viable. Bastos is the best option for the left wing and Mascherano for the midfield (If Melo is sold). I would like to see another experienced striker someone along the lines of Luis Fabiano added. This wouldn't be necessary if we had kept Trezeguet.

This is the team I would like to see participating next year(providing we stick with the same coach and system)

GK - unchanged
Defense - Cheillini, Bonucci, De Ceglie, Sorensen, Barzagli, Coentrao, Beck
Midfield - Marchisio, Krasic, Bastos, Pepe, Mascherano, Rossi, Ekdal, Giandonato
Forwards - Quagliarella, Del Piero, Luis Fabiano, Matri

Probably dreaming but this would be a competetive side.

Also I think I can remember reading somewhere that De ceglie re-injured himself in training. Shame cos he would have been handy these past few months.

[Juventino]

News on De Ceglie, he is training.

Muscular workout for the Bianconeri
Juventus were greeted in Vinovo by conditions that resembled anything but spring, following the two days rest granted by Luigi Del Neri. The heavy rain did not prevent the Bianconeri from returning to their preparations ahead of Sunday afternoon’s game to be played at the Olympic Stadium against Brescia.

After spending the first part of the session in the gym, under the watchful eye of fitness coach De Bellis, the players made their way to the dome to undergo a muscular work out, focusing on the abdominal muscles and a series of stretching exercises. In succession, small groups of players took to the training field to carry out athletic tests and “repeats”. Luca Toni also trained today, working with the ball to continue his recovery program, as did Paolo De Ceglie, who practised his crossing from the touchline, with Sorensen closing him down.

Leonardo Bonucci did not take part in today’s session, having felt light flu symptoms. Tomorrow’s training will take place in the morning, again from the Juventus Center in Vinovo.

http://www.juventus.com/site/eng/NEWS_n ... 73DF33.asp

[Ga Pala]

For me Juve have to go back to producing or recruiting young talented players to form the nucleus of the team , whilst adding three to four quality players in their prime. Most importantly Juve need to go back to playing consistent football with a strong defensive unit. Its also time for Del piero to go , u cant rely on him for ever and if anything by keeping him Juve are stifling their ability to build a new attack that can take the team back to the top. Its about time they bought a quality forward and midfielder eg: Suarez, djzeko, muller,

And for gods sake piss off players like Toni ,iaquinta and Amauri they are a disgrace to the Juve shirt

[David Puddy]

There is no doubt that we are in need of at least four quality players to compete for the scudetto and a champions league place next year. But if Del Neri remains we will again buy to suit his rigid 4-4-2 system, which I still maintain isn't the best for Juve. But if thats the way they go probably in their best interests to sign Quagliarella, Matri and Sorensen permanently. I think Pepe will also stay as he is versatile and I think his purchase fee is around 7 million Euros. The rest (Motta, Rinaudo, Traore etc.) need to go. I would like to see Aquilani stay but it looks unlikely (at least from latest reports) that Juve will take is option up.

You'd expect them to sell the deadwood Amauri, Iaquinta, Grygera, Grosso etc but also I would'nt mind seeing the backs of Melo, Martinez and Toni as they are useless and overpaid. We are in no doubt in need of a left and right back and also a left winger and if possible a central midfielder and a striker.

For a left back Coentrao is good option but a cheaper option might be Baines, although I havent seen much of him. At right back Andreas Beck is young and would also be financially viable. Bastos is the best option for the left wing and Mascherano for the midfield (If Melo is sold). I would like to see another experienced striker someone along the lines of Luis Fabiano added. This wouldn't be necessary if we had kept Trezeguet.

This is the team I would like to see participating next year(providing we stick with the same coach and system)

GK - unchanged
Defense - Cheillini, Bonucci, De Ceglie, Sorensen, Barzagli, Coentrao, Beck
Midfield - Marchisio, Krasic, Bastos, Pepe, Mascherano, Rossi, Ekdal, Giandonato
Forwards - Quagliarella, Del Piero, Luis Fabiano, Matri

Probably dreaming but this would be a competetive side.

Also I think I can remember reading somewhere that De ceglie re-injured himself in training. Shame cos he would have been handy these past few months.

Like it.

However, I think we need generally defensive minded wing backs to compliment Krasic, and players like Coentrao, Vargas, Bastos on the left wing (If we are able to sign any of them). This will free the wingers up to be generally attack minded which is where they all thrive.

Still think Bale would be the utlimate answer for the left hand side, but will be near on impossible to get him.

Bring back Gio for one more season and give him a final chance to prove himself with a consistent run in the team at LM if were not able to sign anyone better.

Neymar would be an unbelievable addition to our attack, and has stated in the past that he likes the idea of coming to Turin. Del Piero tutoring this lad in his final years will definitely do him good!

[BTAC]

I've seen bits and pieces of Aquilani this season for Juve, but I'd love to hear from those who watch him week in and week out. How has he been? Any injuries to contend with? Do you guys want to keep him?

[Juventino]

Started the season well but form has dipped...I guess he has mirrored the team. Needs to be more consistent though. He missed two matches a couple of weeks ago, which was his first injury of the season.

Rumours earlier in the season said he was a keeper, now the rumours say the club thinks the fee is too high and will negotiate with Liverpool (I thought a set-price was done when the loan was sorted out, the papers suggest otherwise). We've been linked to Pirlo and it appears it will be one or the other.

[BTAC]

Started the season well but form has dipped...I guess he has mirrored the team. Needs to be more consistent though. He missed two matches a couple of weeks ago, which was his first injury of the season.

Rumours earlier in the season said he was a keeper, now the rumours say the club thinks the fee is too high and will negotiate with Liverpool (I thought a set-price was done when the loan was sorted out, the papers suggest otherwise). We've been linked to Pirlo and it appears it will be one or the other.

Fair enough, cheers. I would like to see him play under Kenny, I think his style would fit us well now. Unfortunately I can't see it happening.

[Milos#27]

Good to see De Ceglie back, hopefully he can help with what has been a very problematic area for us. However I still can't believe we let Criscito go, even though in the end it helped us sign Bonucci

Although it is mathematically still possible for us to reach a Champions League spot I think we should be playing a few younger players, at least giving them more of taste, so the assesment can be made whether they are good enough for the jump. At the very least they will play with pace and passion even though it maybe rough and.

It seems that we are scared of missing out on europe all together which menationed above wouldn't be a bad thing. It would allow us to trim the squad down and focus all our energy on a top 3 finish.

On a player arrival front, we have alot of quality youngsters on loan or part ownership. As someone mentioned bringing back Giovinco would be good (although I heard he would be offered to Napoli as part of the Quagliarella deal) also we have part ownership deals in place for players like Ekdal, Marrone and Ariaudo who could provide very useful. Also I just recently read that although it looked settled we have been beaten by Chelsea to the signature of Lucas Piazon. Shame looks to be a promising player.

[Juventino]

Giovinco's agent said there is no truth to the Napoli rumours. After everything he's said I don't think he would want to come back, but money talks as does the chance of Europe. Ariaudo is 100% owned by Cagliari now. The 2.5mil to sign Matri on loan was done by giving them the other half of Ariaudo, so no money changed hands.

Getting a more defensive minded right-back, as mentioned above, is crucial. The left-back is allowed to attack more in Delneri's system but on the right you need somebody tactically and positionally (is that a word?) aware. Krasic does not get back enough to have two players bombing down the right.

On the note of Krasic, I wouldn't mind seeing him for a game or two have more of a free run. Have the system something akin to a 4-3-1-2 and see how he goes when not shut down on the right. Problem is that teams have worked out how to stop him and will put two or three players out on the right when he has the ball. If he is free it could stretch the opposition and give space to others. One problem is that he likes to run into space, which may not be afforded in the center, but I'd like to see it tried.

[Milos#27]

Giovinco's agent said there is no truth to the Napoli rumours. After everything he's said I don't think he would want to come back, but money talks as does the chance of Europe. Ariaudo is 100% owned by Cagliari now. The 2.5mil to sign Matri on loan was done by giving them the other half of Ariaudo, so no money changed hands.

Getting a more defensive minded right-back, as mentioned above, is crucial. The left-back is allowed to attack more in Delneri's system but on the right you need somebody tactically and positionally (is that a word?) aware. Krasic does not get back enough to have two players bombing down the right.

On the note of Krasic, I wouldn't mind seeing him for a game or two have more of a free run. Have the system something akin to a 4-3-1-2 and see how he goes when not shut down on the right. Problem is that teams have worked out how to stop him and will put two or three players out on the right when he has the ball. If he is free it could stretch the opposition and give space to others. One problem is that he likes to run into space, which may not be afforded in the center, but I'd like to see it tried.

With regards to Ariaudo, wasn't aware of that...disappointing to see them let go of another promising defender. Totally agree with the alternative system, we need to have a plan b because when you have one major attacking threat from midfield it doesn't take long for a semi-organised team to figure it out and shut it down....however i have noticed that Del Neri doesn't really have a plan b, its been shown in many games I have watched this year.

He had giovinco and diego at his disposal and ultimately they were moved on because they don't fit into his system, even though he claimed that it was not his decision to let diego go.