Question for the English!!!

[adelaidepie]

Another point is that some English media always spout about how good they are when most true fans knows that there are problems within the English game. The true fans aren't the ones going we are the best and we will win everything. To be trueful over the time England has had it's share of dodgy decisions and this comes about because most of the time they are the hunted. However they have also badly under achieved at times. If the aussies whinge about Cahill and Kewell imgaine how England felt about Beckham's sending off?

With all respect to other countries most holding a world cup wont an 'England' team there because of the number of supporters. The English league allows for no discrimination eg not restricting the number of players from othe countries so over the time they have ended up with a great competition but at what expense? This is th main issue they have sold out the nation to supply a demand for the world for the best league. 10 - 15 years a go everyone spoke about how good the Italian league was and they had restrictions If I believe my info was right. Because of this there league was slowly overtaken by England. Although the Italians didn't do so well this time they were the current holders of the world cup so maybe what they did for their 'league' helped!

England can turn this around but the have to do what they did a little (can't believe I'm saying this) with the cricket and head hunt the best and let them change the direction of English football for better or worse in the end they can play the style that their players can play.

didn't an under age English team win something recently? If so shows that they have some playesr coming through now jsut need to mentor them properly.

Adelaidepie Julian

[ozzie owl]

didn't an under age English team win something recently? If so shows that they have some playesr coming through now jsut need to mentor them properly

England under 21's made last Euro final and got hammered by Germany.

[COLOSSUS]

You blamed Maradona for a hand ball that the referee didnt see in 1986, any particular player you blame for ball that crossed line which the referee again failed to see???

For the record, the disallowed goal would have changed the game a little, but the result wouldnt have changed. Germany in a league of their own tonight. Englands failure to deal with the conuter attacking Germans was funny to be honest. What was Gareth Barry thinking in the last goal??? and James diving out the way for the 3rd was laughable. These are top flight players who get paid monstrous amount of monies and they were made to look 2nd rate, embarassing. Oh well, an easy group they should of finished 1st in, play Ghana in the round of 16 and would of been on their way but the writing was on the wall from their first game. Another coach, another casualty for England id imagine. Next victim, Argentina or Mexico???

Col indulging in a little schadenfreude??? Since we've all given it large to Greece, I suppose you're entitled.

You are somewhat disingenuous though to, in one breath, claim that the result wouldn't have changed, then in the next, point out that the Germans scored on the counter attack. Had the game been 2-2 then there's no great need to push, therefore it's unlikely we would have left ourselves open to the very counter attack you talk about.

The fact is nobody will ever know what would have happened if the goal had been allowed and that's all we'll ever be able to say. I must admit, I did laugh though, when we were chasing the game and Capello took Defoe off and put Heskey on. If nothing else, that sealed his fate.

Come on Cyril, did you honestly think you were going to escape the banter???

Of course the game wouldve changed, but the result in my opinion would have been the same and im talking about the outcome. Germany were by far a class above your mob, and even at 2-2, you wouldnt have sat back because a) you guys cant defend as Barry and James proved, and 2) its knockout which means even if you were capable of defending, its pointless because there must be a winner and i highly doubt you would of wanted a penalty shootout with players like Terry taking them

Must say, i also laughed at Capellos decision to take off Defoe for Heskey but only because when your chasing a game in a knockout final, a coach who is thinking straight would take off a defender to add another striker and not like for like. Very strange decision, not that it would of changed anything

[COLOSSUS]

You blamed Maradona for a hand ball that the referee didnt see in 1986, any particular player you blame for ball that crossed line which the referee again failed to see???

They should blame the German keeper - he knew it was over the line, he should have been honest and told the ref...yeaaah right!

So now they can blame a Cheating nazi b.astard along with a Cheating cocaine snorting bastard

[COLOSSUS]

The problem with English football is the creative flamboyant players which make the league what it is are all foreigners. Players like Lampard, Terry, Gerard, Rooney look great, but maybe it is the great players around them that make them shine.

example joe cole, all of england is crying out for his "creativity" to play. fact of the matter is he is not that creative, he's just the most technically gifted of the english. but even he isn't good enough to carry that position for chelsea which is why they have brought in so many midfielders over the years. deco malouda etc. all forcing cole out of the team

Too true on both counts i must say

[Hawkesy]

there's always something controversial about England exits, rooney or beckham's red card and now we have the goal that wasn't given. It would certainly have changed the game but who knows how much. Germany were clearly the better, MUCH BETTER side but the rest is just if's and but's.

When you lose 4-1 and your best player is your keeper, that speaks volumes.

Capello has to take a fair shunt of the blame. Playing gerrard wide on the left, no joe cole, no crouch, bringing on heskey when you need to chase a game and mainly for not having the ability to motivate the dressing room. The comments that came from James and Terry in this world cup shows he has lost the changing room.

That aside, you shouldn't need to motivate these people to play in a world cup for their country. Rooney was an absolute disgrace, he's had a lovely holiday in south africa for 3 weeks and should be refreshed for the season. How can a player of his ability lose the ability to even control a football.

As for the initial post, I don't hate maradona for the handball, he cheated but is it any different to committing a foul. You do what you have to do to win. The difference is his refusal to admit. Same as you can't blame the keeper for pushing the ball back over the line, it's up to the refs to spot these things and how did that ref and linesman miss that one.

[NEWSFLASH]

===translation. I am English and even I agree the English can't play football!

[adelaidepie]

Actually I meant this competition

England have won the UEFA European U17 Championship 2010 for the very first time after they came from behind to beat Spain 2-1 in an absorbing Final in Liechtenstein.

So they have a young group coming through who they can work with now plus the group that lost a final to Germany so not all doom and gloom but a bleedin long way to go and as long as the idiots at the top don't ruin them!

Adelaidepie Julian

[NEWSFLASH]

Yeah England have had a young group coming through the ranks for 44 years..won't be long now before they dominate the world stage.

[ozzie owl]

Yeah England have had a young group coming through the ranks for 44 years..won't be long now before they dominate the world stage.

[Hawkesy]

Yeah England have had a young group coming through the ranks for 44 years..won't be long now before they dominate the world stage.

don't ket facts get in the way of your argument. How did we do in the last few youth championships?

[MegaBonus]

australia lost to brazil in an u17 wc...YOUR POINT IS????

[Hawkesy]

australia lost to brazil in an u17 wc...YOUR POINT IS????

the point is if we are doing well in youth tournaments then clearly there are some decent players coming through. Personally, I couldn't give a fuck about them.

[ozzie owl]

Yeah England have had a young group coming through the ranks for 44 years..won't be long now before they dominate the world stage.

don't ket facts get in the way of your argument. How did we do in the last few youth championships?

FIFA Under 17 and under 20'2 no success

UEFA Under 21 Won 1982 and 1984
Runner up 2009
Under 17 won 2010.

[Hawkesy]

UEFA
Runner up 2009
Under 17 won 2010.

so, clearly, we must have some decent kids coming through. All this from a system that isn't working.

The system is working at youth level CLEARLY. It's the senior level where there's the issue, too many foreigners and too much money which means the players lack the passion. Look at how rooney was when he had his holiday in south africa interfered with.

[ozzie owl]

UEFA
Runner up 2009
Under 17 won 2010.

so, clearly, we must have some decent kids coming through. All this from a system that isn't working.

The system is working at youth level CLEARLY. It's the senior level where there's the issue, too many foreigners and too much money which means the players lack the passion. Look at how rooney was when he had his holiday in south africa interfered with.

Do you believe the system is working well?

[Hawkesy]

UEFA
Runner up 2009
Under 17 won 2010.

so, clearly, we must have some decent kids coming through. All this from a system that isn't working.

The system is working at youth level CLEARLY. It's the senior level where there's the issue, too many foreigners and too much money which means the players lack the passion. Look at how rooney was when he had his holiday in south africa interfered with.

Do you believe the system is working well?

As I said above, at youth level clearly it is but not at senior level.

[MegaBonus]

in all seriousness (as ive posted elsewhere), england has been overtaken technically and tactically by the ...how does hawksey refer to them???...oh yeah...'the lesser nations'.

raised to play the game at 100 mph with an emphasis on the physical side of the game stops true mastery of ball maniplation to develop. which other country was also obviously lacking in this department????

[Hawkesy]

in all seriousness (as ive posted elsewhere), england has been overtaken technically and tactically by the ...how does hawksey refer to them???...oh yeah...'the lesser nations'.

raised to play the game at 100 mph with an emphasis on the physical side of the game stops true mastery of ball maniplation to develop. which other country was also obviously lacking in this department????

well if that's the case, then I'm glad. I like the physical game and long may it continue.

[MegaBonus]

i dont know if you have noticed...but sth americans teams can also be very physcal in what WC was it that you guys got kicked off the park???

[Hawkesy]

i dont know if you have noticed...but sth americans teams can also be very physcal in what WC was it that you guys got kicked off the park???

BIG difference between physicallity and kicking people off the park. Nothing better than a proper amateur league game in England when the game is played properly.

[MegaBonus]

played properly according to whom????


can you see a smilarity between your idea of 'properly' and the 'macho' ideas of what type of football 'real' men play according to AFL boffins???? im prety sre ts an 'anglo' thing...not a criticism, merely an observation.

[Hawkesy]

played properly according to whom????


can you see a smilarity between your idea of 'properly' and the 'macho' ideas of what type of football 'real' men play according to AFL boffins???? im prety sre ts an 'anglo' thing...not a criticism, merely an observation.

me? my opinion is the only one I care about.

I can see the similarity. They like a more physical sport than they see with football in australia. I think if they watched football in England at equivalent levels they would see a very different game.

[Barney Rubble]

You can't argue the game would have changed the game had Lampard's goal been allowed, but you can't say England would have won. They were rippeed apart until the set piece goal from Upton and could have been down 3-0 very easy.
Reality was that all over the park England were outplayed and this sort of result has been coming given the displays prior to the World Cup and the three group games.

Reality is in 2010 English football is behind the leading nations and cannot call itself football world power. Talk in the press of sacking Capello won't solve anything. Changing England coaches is as effective as moving the deck chairs on the Titanic, they is still bloody big hole under the surface. Lets face it apart from Italia 90 and the 1986 Euro's in England they have consistently failed to perform. The time is right for a revolution in English football and begin the slow road back. Rather than splashing mega millions on foreign coaches I would rather see those funds invested in the best youth coaches and acedemy from around the world and radically overhaul how young English players are coached. It has been there for all to see that the English players simply cannot match the world for technique, flexibility, tactical awareness and movement off the ball. The FA need to put their hand up and say we have a crisis and admit that thet are on the wrong path.

Mind you the same supporters who booed England off, will go home and in just over a months time will sit back in the EPL ground and cheer on their club sides, who will be 70% non English and wonder why England are so bad. Yes the large number of foreign players is damaging but maybe the young English players simply aren't good enough due to poor coaching and development.

Will the FA instigate what is needed to drag English players and clubs out of the mess, no it will simply do what it has done for a long time FA.

10/10

as i previously posted, in a few months we will all think about the 'goal' that was not.

not how shite they played.

By the way, moving the deck chairs on the Titanic

[Hawkesy]

You can't argue the game would have changed the game had Lampard's goal been allowed, but you can't say England would have won. They were rippeed apart until the set piece goal from Upton and could have been down 3-0 very easy.
Reality was that all over the park England were outplayed and this sort of result has been coming given the displays prior to the World Cup and the three group games.

Reality is in 2010 English football is behind the leading nations and cannot call itself football world power. Talk in the press of sacking Capello won't solve anything. Changing England coaches is as effective as moving the deck chairs on the Titanic, they is still bloody big hole under the surface. Lets face it apart from Italia 90 and the 1986 Euro's in England they have consistently failed to perform. The time is right for a revolution in English football and begin the slow road back. Rather than splashing mega millions on foreign coaches I would rather see those funds invested in the best youth coaches and acedemy from around the world and radically overhaul how young English players are coached. It has been there for all to see that the English players simply cannot match the world for technique, flexibility, tactical awareness and movement off the ball. The FA need to put their hand up and say we have a crisis and admit that thet are on the wrong path.

Mind you the same supporters who booed England off, will go home and in just over a months time will sit back in the EPL ground and cheer on their club sides, who will be 70% non English and wonder why England are so bad. Yes the large number of foreign players is damaging but maybe the young English players simply aren't good enough due to poor coaching and development.

Will the FA instigate what is needed to drag English players and clubs out of the mess, no it will simply do what it has done for a long time FA.

10/10

as i previously posted, in a few months we will all think about the 'goal' that was not.

not how shite they played.

By the way, moving the deck chairs on the Titanic

apart from the fact that I would say a lot of those out there don't support premiership sides.

[Steve#4]

[quote="Hawkesy"]there's always something controversial about England exits, rooney or beckham's red card and now we have the goal that wasn't given. It would certainly have changed the game but who knows how much. Germany were clearly the better, MUCH BETTER side but the rest is just if's and but's.

When you lose 4-1 and your best player is your keeper, that speaks volumes.

Capello has to take a fair shunt of the blame. Playing gerrard wide on the left, no joe cole, no crouch, bringing on heskey when you need to chase a game and mainly for not having the ability to motivate the dressing room. The comments that came from James and Terry in this world cup shows he has lost the changing room.

That aside, you shouldn't need to motivate these people to play in a world cup for their country. Rooney was an absolute disgrace, he's had a lovely holiday in south africa for 3 weeks and should be refreshed for the season. How can a player of his ability lose the ability to even control a football.

Good post.....Well expressed.......Your still a POME Toss though

[Madridista612]

played properly according to whom????


can you see a smilarity between your idea of 'properly' and the 'macho' ideas of what type of football 'real' men play according to AFL boffins???? im prety sre ts an 'anglo' thing...not a criticism, merely an observation.

me? my opinion is the only one I care about.

I can see the similarity. They like a more physical sport than they see with football in australia. I think if they watched football in England at equivalent levels they would see a very different game.

The motto of a pompous ass

[pottermus]

The London weather bureau have issued a warning that a shower of shite is on its way from South Africa

[ozzie owl]

Myabe the English FA could learn from this.


Bundesliga Foundation for Success
GERMANY'S Bundesliga is by no means the best in Europe. It does not have the biggest stars, it does not play the most attractive football and it is certainly not the most talked about.
It comfortably comes fourth in a pecking order which, depending on who you talk to, sees Spain, England and Italy easily rank higher.

But what the Bundesliga, despite not being formed until 1963, does do is provide a system which produces good players for the national team.

The Germans run their league with famed stereotypical efficiency and only a couple of months ago figures for the 2008/09 season showed the Bundesliga had overtaken the Premier League as the most profitable in football.

That has been achieved by keeping excess down to a minimum. Clubs paid 51% of revenue in players' wages - the lowest ratio of the continent's 'big five'.

By doing that they can also keep ticket prices down - with some clubs like Borussia Dortmund charging as little as £13 for admission - and that has resulted in it recording the highest attendances in Europe for the seventh successive season.

On average, nearly 8,000 more people see a match in the Bundesliga (average attendance 41,800) than in the Premier League.

The numbers for its English counterpart, are much higher in comparison with a wages to revenue ratio of 67% and an average ticket price of £39.

No teams in the German top flight are in danger of entering administration - like Portsmouth did this season - and more than half make a profit.

But it is not financial well-being which has helped Germany's national team as much as the long-term planning.

A decade ago the Bundesliga and German Football Association decided that to obtain a licence to play in the league you had to run an academy and, as a result, the two top divisions spend £60million a year on these programmes.

That has helped raise the number of German-qualified players under the age of 23 playing in the Bundesliga from 6% to 15%.

The proportion of Englishmen - of any age - playing in the Premier League ranges between 34% and 38%; the Bundesliga's German representation is 53%.

Germany's success in bringing through talented young players has been highlighted by the performance of their national youth teams.

In the last couple of years Germany have won European titles at under-17, under-19 and under-21 levels and Joachim Low's squad which humiliated England in Bloemfontein was the youngest to go to a World Cup in 76 years, containing six of the under-21 championship-winning side.

It has also helped share the quality around the Bundesliga, which has had three different champions in the last four years, with a similar roll of honour in the German Cup.

England's Under-17s took Germany's European title this season so maybe there is some hope for the future, although that all depends on what chances arise for those potential stars at Premier League clubs.

Those opportunities are becoming increasingly rare in a foreigner-dominated top flight but is a situation which must be addressed if the England team is to avoid further disappointment at elite level.

GERMANY'S GENERATION NEXT

Mesut Ozil: Has already shown he can have a significant impact at the highest level despite having won just 14 caps. The 21-year-old played Champions League football with former club Schalke before moving on to Werder Bremen.

Thomas Muller: Three goals - all at the World Cup - in his first six appearances is a great start to an international career which only began in March. The 20-year-old has been at Bayern Munich since he was 10 but just over 12 months ago was still playing in their reserves.

Holger Badstuber: He only made his Bundesliga debut for Bayern on the opening day of the season, which finished with a Champions League final appearance. His talent was spotted by Germany boss Joachim Low, who selected the 21-year-old for the World Cup before he had even played an international match.

Jerome Boateng: The Manchester City-bound defender impressed during two years at former club Hamburg and is another member of the European Under-21 championship-winning side. Made his international debut in October, a month after his 21st birthday, and has not looked back since.

Marko Marin: Came to national attention when he was called into Germany'sEuro 2008 preliminary squad, although he failed to make the cut, as a second division player with Borussia Monchengladbach. The 21-year-old attacking midfielder has since moved to Werder Bremen.

[ozzie owl]

..
.
.

Brooking: Calls for reform
.


.Sir Trevor Brooking has claimed England's international fortunes will not improve until more emphasis is placed on youth coaching.

Yet again, the Three Lions are licking their wounds after getting mauled at a major tournament.

The inevitable inquests have already been launched as to how England's so-called 'Golden Generation' have slumped quite so badly, and what chance there is of an improvement for Euro 2012.

It seems the answer to the latter question is 'not much' judging by the paucity of talent coming through Premier League ranks.

The problem was highlighted by Brooking, the FA's youth development officer, in an extensive interview 10 days ago.

"Clubs are understanding the importance of developing young players," said Brooking. "We need to invest in specialised younger-age group coaching.

"The old days when I played informally around the corner with my mates, developing my skills base, are not going happen anymore.

"An 11-year-old youngster in this country isn't good enough technically so we have to play more short-sided games and do more ball work."

Those technical deficiencies were obvious in Bloemfontein as England subsided to their worst ever defeat by Germany.

German coach Joachim Low admitted he had highlighted obvious defensive frailties for his team to exploit and in the second-half, as England desperately chased the game, Germany were able to pick their opponents off with ease on the counter-attack.

"The way the game is going is pretty clear," said Brooking.

"Teams are keeping the ball on the floor more. In the back four, you want all players to be technically comfortable.

"It all starts at the back and we want to encourage the grass roots this is the way to play."

While the old arguments about Premier League self-interest will be raised whenever the issue of youth development is brought up, Brooking has highlighted a major reason why big clubs should take note; the new 50% tax rate and the fluctuating exchange rate, which will make it significantly more expensive to lure top players to England.

"If you wanted to bring the same overseas player in now as two years ago it would cost you a third as much again because of the Euro," said Brooking.

"Players also want to know what the net tax figure is for their contract, so it is going to cost the clubs a lot more.

"It means there is a big onus on us to produce better English players because the clubs won't be able to afford to bring them in from overseas."

The process will not be a quick one though.

Brooking estimates it will be five years before the Under-17 side that won this summer's European Championships will be challenging for full England honours, which means some dark days might be approaching.

"World Cup 2014 will be difficult for England," said Brooking.

"I don't think there are the obvious quality players coming through who can replicate what we have currently unless we can fast-track one or two of the younger ones, which is asking a lot."