OFFICIAL: Liverpool and Benitez part ways

[Judge Judy]

Nothing.
Just increasing my post count.

Look out tobes!

OH FUX

[MegaBonus]

this is a reason why benitez lost the confidence of his players.....look at the reaction at the decision to substitute torres

[Lucas is god]

Liverpool are forever living off past glories and have unrealistic expectations in the here and now. They are a strong club, but the fact they are still referred to as part of "the big four" irritates me as they haven't won the league title for 20 years, and have finished OUTSIDE the top four on three occasions in the past eight seasons alone. Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal have all won the trophy at least twice in the same period and have never finished outside the top four during this time.
I know Liverpool won the Champions League in 2004/2005, but they finished 37 points behind Chelsea that year in the Premiership, so you can't call it a completely successful season.
Whoever replaces Benitez has a very tough job, because he will be expected to bring great success to a club that is only above-average.

I don't want to question your intellectual capacity to understand exactly what the champions league is but you are forcing me to...
We've won 20 leagues in 108 years
We've won 5 European Cups in that same period
on average we win 1 league every 5.4 years and a champions league every 22 years. I think that the 2005 champions leauge is even better when you take into consideration our poor league form and squad, so tbh i can safely say that any liverpool supporter/player/manager would consider that a completely successful season especially considering the interest it bought in from potential buyers and investors(unfortunately american investors...), as it was the greatest Final of all time I believe that insured can consider his contribution to the club as an excellent one, the fa cup was just bonus. What have Arsenal done lately? When was the last time Chelsea won the Champions league, when was the last time arsenal did? therefore Liverpools decade has been more successful then arsenals, and yes i believe it is completely fair to judge based on the champions league. And the big 4 does not go on current league form, it goes on support, money, Reputation, current squad, history.

[MegaBonus]

Frithy...before you slag off on others......read on.....

Benitez’s reign ultimately a disappointment
June 4, 2010

Rafael Benitez’ six-year reign as Liverpool manager is over. In future he will doubtless be remembered fondly by Liverpool fans – he may have only guided the side to two trophies, but the victories over Milan and West Ham are two of the most remarkable finals in living memory. They were astonishing victories.
The rest of the footballing world will consider his spell something of a failure. Those two trophies seem an eternity ago, and in recent years his selections, transfers and tactics have often been difficult to understand, and were ultimately unsuccessful.

Part of the problem with Benitez’s reign was his formation as a whole. Liverpool have become accustomed to playing with a 4-2-3-1 system, but it actually took Benitez three and a half seasons before this was installed as the primary formation (which was strange considering he had experienced such success at Valencia with this system). Until then, he had largely persisted with a basic 4-4-2 for league matches, which didn’t suit his two most talented players. Steven Gerrard was not disciplined enough for a central midfield role and was playing too far from goal, whilst Xavi Alonso is a deep midfielder but not a holding one – they clearly both needed a destroyer alongside them. Instead, Gerrard was sometimes shunted out to the right and Alonso struggled for form – the shift to 4-2-3-1 suited them both, but it was late in arriving. The delay probably set Liverpool back a couple of seasons.

Misconceptions about his theories

Ironically, the two constant nagging criticisms about Benitez in the mainstream media were two things he actually got right. Firstly, his use of zonal marking contributed to Liverpool consistently having one of the best defences in the Premier League, and indeed in Europe. It’s easy to mock the system when it goes wrong, but Benitez was entirely correct in persisting with a system that was so obviously successful in terms of the ‘goals conceded’ record.

Secondly, his fondness for squad rotation was not a crazy idea – with Liverpool invariably reaching the latter stages of European competition whilst having to maintain league form, keeping the squad fresh was important. Pundits often made comments like “The players need to know who is in the first XI”, which not only has little merit in itself, it also ignores that fact that it was generally entirely possible to name Benitez’s eleven preferred players. The point that Liverpool’s squad as a whole were never quite good enough is probably a fair criticism, but the rotation itself was not the problem.

Problems with signing attackers

Benitez’s downfall was ultimately his inability to get the best out of attacking, creative players. The Liverpool career of Fernando Morientes – where the Spaniard transformed from a world class striker to a hapless target man within months – seemed strange at the time but essentially he was the first of many attacking talents not used to their full potential.


A lot of Benitez flops were predictable flops. No-one expected Jermaine Pennant to be a success, nor Albert Riera – neither had ever shown the form required for Premiership contenders, and they didn’t improve at Liverpool. Benitez seemed shocked when he bought Craig Bellamy and the Welshman turned out to be (a) fast (b) full of running (c) short on goals and (d) indisciplined. What did he expect? Any Liverpool fan could have predicted that before he arrived. Misjudgements like this gave the impression of him being a poor judge of talent.

His problem with attackers is probably best summed up best by a player he would consider a success – Dirk Kuyt. Yes, he performs a valuable role for Liverpool and is defensively excellent, but how has Benitez managed to get an exciting goalscoring forward and turn him into a defensive-minded workhorse? You can argue that Jose Mourinho has done the same with Samuel Eto’o, but then Inter have been successful and Eto’o remains a confident, excellent footballer. If you’re unsuccessful and you make players look worse than they actually are, you’re probably not doing a great job as manager.

The signing of Robbie Keane, though, was the most costly. Liverpool’s narrow failure to win the Premier League title in 2008/09 can be attributed mainly to the three goalless draws at Anfield in the opening months of the season, against Stoke, Fulham and West Ham. Failing to score against teams of that calibre is not acceptable for potential Premiership winners, and the fact that Keane was playing upfront looking lost and seemingly not fitting into the side can be identified as the main problem. A simplistic point it may be – but if Liverpool had scored in those games, they would have won the title.

Supporters of Benitez often defend his transfer record by pointing to the money that he received from transfers. That was something he did seem good at – how did he get £2m for Djimi Traore, £3.5m for Mark Gonzalez or £8.2m for Momo Sissoko? But of course, this misses the point, that a club like Liverpool should be buying players to improve the team, not to sell on at a profit – money which would doubtless be wasted on another flop anyway.

Furthermore, there is something rather ironic that supporters – who are no doubt (rightly) up in arms about their club being taken over purely for business reasons – can try and defend their manager’s transfers according to the balance sheet, rather than the players’ impact on the pitch.

Lack of a legacy

His cautious style was suited more to knockout football, and reaching the Champions League semi-finals four times in six seasons is a very good achievement. The run to the final in 2005 was Benitez at his finest. The way Liverpool overcame superior Juventus and Chelsea sides with 0-0s away from home and dominant performances at Anfield hinted at a manager who would leave a great legacy at Liverpool Football Club.


Strange substitution + players clearly not trusting him = Benitez's final season at Anfield
Unfortunately, similar success didn’t follow and his claim to be a legacy builder took a hit when Liverpool’s youth coach Rodolfo Borrell recently slammed the club’s academy, saying “It is unacceptable…the under-18s had no centre-forward, no balance, no tactical level, no understanding of the game”. How can this be the case after six years of rule by a noted tactician, who likes to utilize a large squad?

There are still Liverpool fans who wanted him to stay, but you wonder how much of this is an emotional attachment rather than a sporting one. After all, Benitez is a decent man you can’t help feel sympathy for considering the way pathetic boardroom squabbles undermined his position.

But, if in 2004 you had offered these Liverpool fans a flash forward to 2010 – where Benitez is still the manager, Liverpool have still yet to win the Premiership and the most recent season saw them further away than ever before under his reign, in seventh place, they would all have indicated that it was probably right for him to leave.

Maybe the most disappointing thing for Benitez is that the two trophies were not won through tactical masterclasses, but by barely believable comebacks and penalty shoot-outs. The switch to 3-4-1-2 at half-time in Istanbul certainly helped that comeback, but equally it was a bizarre decision to start without a true holding midfielder against a Milan side that notoriously packed their midfield with creative players.

If those two games didn’t show tactical wisdom, they unquestionably showed a group of players that had spirit, determination and faith in their manager, something maybe even harder to achieve than a great tactical gameplan. But sadly, none of those qualities have been in evidence over the past twelve months, and that was Benitez’s cue to leave.

[ComeBackDukes!]

Liverpool are forever living off past glories and have unrealistic expectations in the here and now. They are a strong club, but the fact they are still referred to as part of "the big four" irritates me as they haven't won the league title for 20 years, and have finished OUTSIDE the top four on three occasions in the past eight seasons alone. Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal have all won the trophy at least twice in the same period and have never finished outside the top four during this time.
I know Liverpool won the Champions League in 2004/2005, but they finished 37 points behind Chelsea that year in the Premiership, so you can't call it a completely successful season.
Whoever replaces Benitez has a very tough job, because he will be expected to bring great success to a club that is only above-average.

I don't want to question your intellectual capacity to understand exactly what the champions league is but you are forcing me to...
We've won 20 leagues in 108 years
We've won 5 European Cups in that same period
on average we win 1 league every 5.4 years and a champions league every 22 years. I think that the 2005 champions leauge is even better when you take into consideration our poor league form and squad, so tbh i can safely say that any liverpool supporter/player/manager would consider that a completely successful season especially considering the interest it bought in from potential buyers and investors(unfortunately american investors...), as it was the greatest Final of all time I believe that insured can consider his contribution to the club as an excellent one, the fa cup was just bonus. What have Arsenal done lately? When was the last time Chelsea won the Champions league, when was the last time arsenal did? therefore Liverpools decade has been more successful then arsenals, and yes i believe it is completely fair to judge based on the champions league. And the big 4 does not go on current league form, it goes on support, money, Reputation, current squad, history.

Well, both Arsenal and Chelsea have played in Champions League finals since 2005 when Liverpool DREW with A.C Milan, before being crowned champions by virtue of winning a penalty shoot-out. Arsenal were beaten by a last-minute goal in their 2006 final against Barca, after having Lehmann sent off early and Chelsea drew against Man U in the 2008 final, but lost their shoot-out. Does that mean they are of no comparison to Liverpool as far as European success over the last decade goes? Well, if you think so then you're kidding yourself. Arsenal and Chelsea consistently progress to the knock-out stages of the Champions League, while Liverpool sometimes don't even qualify to begin with. And Chelsea have made the semis five times in the past decade, compared to Liverpool's three.

As I said in my original post - in 2004/2005 Liverpool finished 37 points below Chelsea in the Premiership. That's almost a point a game! Yet your comeback to that is to say how great Liverpool are for winning the Champions League that year and to use that achievement to suggest they have some sort of profound superiority over Chelsea in Europe this past decade. But all your argument comes down to is this - Liverpool won a penalty shoot-out, Chelsea did not. And if you want to talk about history, then perhaps clubs like Huddersfield town and Wolverhampton should be included in "the big four" given their league success of years past.

The phrase was only coined this decade and all I'm saying is that Liverpool - whilst they are clearly the fourth best English club during this time - are a long way behind the other three clubs in terms of success in the past ten years and therefore do not deserve to be included in "the big four".

[Nice One Cyril]

Liverpool are forever living off past glories and have unrealistic expectations in the here and now. They are a strong club, but the fact they are still referred to as part of "the big four" irritates me as they haven't won the league title for 20 years, and have finished OUTSIDE the top four on three occasions in the past eight seasons alone. Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal have all won the trophy at least twice in the same period and have never finished outside the top four during this time.
I know Liverpool won the Champions League in 2004/2005, but they finished 37 points behind Chelsea that year in the Premiership, so you can't call it a completely successful season.
Whoever replaces Benitez has a very tough job, because he will be expected to bring great success to a club that is only above-average.

I don't want to question your intellectual capacity to understand exactly what the champions league is but you are forcing me to...
We've won 20 leagues in 108 years
We've won 5 European Cups in that same period
on average we win 1 league every 5.4 years and a champions league every 22 years. I think that the 2005 champions leauge is even better when you take into consideration our poor league form and squad, so tbh i can safely say that any liverpool supporter/player/manager would consider that a completely successful season especially considering the interest it bought in from potential buyers and investors(unfortunately american investors...), as it was the greatest Final of all time I believe that insured can consider his contribution to the club as an excellent one, the fa cup was just bonus. What have Arsenal done lately? When was the last time Chelsea won the Champions league, when was the last time arsenal did? therefore Liverpools decade has been more successful then arsenals, and yes i believe it is completely fair to judge based on the champions league. And the big 4 does not go on current league form, it goes on support, money, Reputation, current squad, history.

Well, both Arsenal and Chelsea have played in Champions League finals since 2005 when Liverpool DREW with A.C Milan, before being crowned champions by virtue of winning a penalty shoot-out. Arsenal were beaten by a last-minute goal in their 2006 final against Barca, after having Lehmann sent off early and Chelsea drew against Man U in the 2008 final, but lost their shoot-out. Does that mean they are of no comparison to Liverpool as far as European success over the last decade goes? Well, if you think so then you're kidding yourself. Arsenal and Chelsea consistently progress to the knock-out stages of the Champions League, while Liverpool sometimes don't even qualify to begin with. And Chelsea have made the semis five times in the past decade, compared to Liverpool's three.

As I said in my original post - in 2004/2005 Liverpool finished 37 points below Chelsea in the Premiership. That's almost a point a game! Yet your comeback to that is to say how great Liverpool are for winning the Champions League that year and to use that achievement to suggest they have some sort of profound superiority over Chelsea in Europe this past decade. But all your argument comes down to is this - Liverpool won a penalty shoot-out, Chelsea did not. And if you want to talk about history, then perhaps clubs like Huddersfield town and Wolverhampton should be included in "the big four" given their league success of years past.

The phrase was only coined this decade and all I'm saying is that Liverpool - whilst they are clearly the fourth best English club during this time - are a long way behind the other three clubs in terms of success in the past ten years and therefore do not deserve to be included in "the big four".[/quote]

Contradication in terms. Either they are, or they aren't. Make your mind up please

[The Kop]

Liverpool are forever living off past glories and have unrealistic expectations in the here and now. They are a strong club, but the fact they are still referred to as part of "the big four" irritates me as they haven't won the league title for 20 years, and have finished OUTSIDE the top four on three occasions in the past eight seasons alone. Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal have all won the trophy at least twice in the same period and have never finished outside the top four during this time.
I know Liverpool won the Champions League in 2004/2005, but they finished 37 points behind Chelsea that year in the Premiership, so you can't call it a completely successful season.
Whoever replaces Benitez has a very tough job, because he will be expected to bring great success to a club that is only above-average.

I don't want to question your intellectual capacity to understand exactly what the champions league is but you are forcing me to...
We've won 20 leagues in 108 years
We've won 5 European Cups in that same period
on average we win 1 league every 5.4 years and a champions league every 22 years. I think that the 2005 champions leauge is even better when you take into consideration our poor league form and squad, so tbh i can safely say that any liverpool supporter/player/manager would consider that a completely successful season especially considering the interest it bought in from potential buyers and investors(unfortunately american investors...), as it was the greatest Final of all time I believe that insured can consider his contribution to the club as an excellent one, the fa cup was just bonus. What have Arsenal done lately? When was the last time Chelsea won the Champions league, when was the last time arsenal did? therefore Liverpools decade has been more successful then arsenals, and yes i believe it is completely fair to judge based on the champions league. And the big 4 does not go on current league form, it goes on support, money, Reputation, current squad, history.

Well, both Arsenal and Chelsea have played in Champions League finals since 2005 when Liverpool DREW with A.C Milan, before being crowned champions by virtue of winning a penalty shoot-out. Arsenal were beaten by a last-minute goal in their 2006 final against Barca, after having Lehmann sent off early and Chelsea drew against Man U in the 2008 final, but lost their shoot-out. Does that mean they are of no comparison to Liverpool as far as European success over the last decade goes? Well, if you think so then you're kidding yourself. Arsenal and Chelsea consistently progress to the knock-out stages of the Champions League, while Liverpool sometimes don't even qualify to begin with. And Chelsea have made the semis five times in the past decade, compared to Liverpool's three.

As I said in my original post - in 2004/2005 Liverpool finished 37 points below Chelsea in the Premiership. That's almost a point a game! Yet your comeback to that is to say how great Liverpool are for winning the Champions League that year and to use that achievement to suggest they have some sort of profound superiority over Chelsea in Europe this past decade. But all your argument comes down to is this - Liverpool won a penalty shoot-out, Chelsea did not. And if you want to talk about history, then perhaps clubs like Huddersfield town and Wolverhampton should be included in "the big four" given their league success of years past.

The phrase was only coined this decade and all I'm saying is that Liverpool - whilst they are clearly the fourth best English club during this time - are a long way behind the other three clubs in terms of success in the past ten years and therefore do not deserve to be included in "the big four".

A little bit naive to think that the term big 4 was coined based on on-field recent year performances alone.
Dont you think......

[The one and only]

Benitez' first 5 years:
0405 - 5th (CL winners)
0506 - 3rd (FA Cup Winners)
0607 - 3rd
0809 - 2nd
0910 - 7th

Ferguson's first 5 years:
8687 - 11th
8788 - 2nd
8889 - 11th
8990 - 13th (FA Cup Winners)
9091 - 6th (Cup Winners Cup Winners)

what exactly are you trying to point out there?? when fergie took over at united they were just above relegation, i think benitez walked into a far more comfortable environment.

Nothing.
Just increasing my post count.

Look out tobes!

yeah kopster i didnt think a person with your intelligence would be trying to say that benitez is in any way a better manager then fergie

[Lucas is god]

Um Liverpool lost to Ac Milan in the 2007 champions league final....thats 2 appearances in the time that arsenal and chelsea have had one each and united has had 2, liverpool and united have both won it in the last 5 years. Liverpool have made it to atleast the semi's stage of the champions league 4 out of the last 6 years and one of those years that they didnt went on to make it to the semi of the europa league. Sure you could go off just history and include nottingham forest and leeds etc but as i said its a combination of fan base, history, current league status and current squad. The sheer fact that you seem to believe the big 4 is an actual ranking system and not just a term used to describe the top 4 clubs in england(note i did not say teams) points to a fundamental lack of knowledge on your behalf, oh and if you want to judge the big 4 on recent performances then shouldnt the same be applied to international football? Tunisia 1-1 France china 1-0 France, does this mean France as one of the worst teams in the world? Wolves had a golden patch in the 1950s by that same theory Blackpool are still a super power because sir stanley matthews once played for them in an FA Cup final

[Nice One Cyril]

Um Liverpool lost to Ac Milan in the 2007 champions league final....thats 2 appearances in the time that arsenal and chelsea have had one each and united has had 2, liverpool and united have both won it in the last 5 years. Liverpool have made it to atleast the semi's stage of the champions league 4 out of the last 6 years and one of those years that they didnt went on to make it to the semi of the europa league. Sure you could go off just history and include nottingham forest and leeds etc but as i said its a combination of fan base, history, current league status and current squad. The sheer fact that you seem to believe the big 4 is an actual ranking system and not just a term used to describe the top 4 clubs in england(note i did not say teams) points to a fundamental lack of knowledge on your behalf, oh and if you want to judge the big 4 on recent performances then shouldnt the same be applied to international football? Tunisia 1-1 France china 1-0 France, does this mean France as one of the worst teams in the world? Wolves had a golden patch in the 1950s by that same theory Blackpool are still a super power because sir stanley matthews once played for them in an FA Cup final

Big Four or not? Who the fuck cares what you call them? They finished seventh and won sweet FA.

[Lucas is god]

Um Liverpool lost to Ac Milan in the 2007 champions league final....thats 2 appearances in the time that arsenal and chelsea have had one each and united has had 2, liverpool and united have both won it in the last 5 years. Liverpool have made it to atleast the semi's stage of the champions league 4 out of the last 6 years and one of those years that they didnt went on to make it to the semi of the europa league. Sure you could go off just history and include nottingham forest and leeds etc but as i said its a combination of fan base, history, current league status and current squad. The sheer fact that you seem to believe the big 4 is an actual ranking system and not just a term used to describe the top 4 clubs in england(note i did not say teams) points to a fundamental lack of knowledge on your behalf, oh and if you want to judge the big 4 on recent performances then shouldnt the same be applied to international football? Tunisia 1-1 France china 1-0 France, does this mean France as one of the worst teams in the world? Wolves had a golden patch in the 1950s by that same theory Blackpool are still a super power because sir stanley matthews once played for them in an FA Cup final

Big Four or not? Who the shiraz cares what you call them? They finished seventh and won sweet FA.

you could make anything sound bad if you say it in that tone...

[coachingsoccer]

Moratti says Benitez is almost 100% sure to sign for Inter. Wonder which players will leave Liverpool?

[Token]

Moratti says Benitez is almost 100% sure to sign for Inter. Wonder which players will leave Liverpool?

I think Lucas and Kuyt as they are Rafa's favourite.

[Judge Judy]

Moratti says Benitez is almost 100% sure to sign for Inter. Wonder which players will leave Liverpool?

hopefully the rubbish ones.

reckon Insua and Mascherano might be tempted to Inter

[Nice One Cyril]

Moratti says Benitez is almost 100% sure to sign for Inter. Wonder which players will leave Liverpool?

hopefully the rubbish ones.
reckon Insua and Mascherano might be tempted to Inter

That would leave you with a squad of about 5

[cole_trickle]

sucked in duorichards

not even 5 i reckon

[Nice One Cyril]

Apparently King Kenny has withdrawn from the selection panel and has thrown his hat in the ring to take over.

Can't fault his record but I wonder if he's been out too long.


And, to reward the fans for the stunning season just gone, they've increased season ticket prices by 7%. Surely they are taking the piss?

[mushrow]

I'm refusing to comment until E-Football and Gabon let us know their thoughts about this unfortunate situation.

[PhilDunphy]

Moratti says Benitez is almost 100% sure to sign for Inter. Wonder which players will leave Liverpool?

I think Lucas and Kuyt as they are Rafa's favourite.

good riddance to lucas, kuyt works hard but there are better players out there....

[BTAC]

Moratti says Benitez is almost 100% sure to sign for Inter. Wonder which players will leave Liverpool?

I think Lucas and Kuyt as they are Rafa's favourite.

good riddance to lucas, kuyt works hard but there are better players out there....

Other way round mate. Good riddance to Kuyt, but Lucas is a decent squad option.

[The Kop]

Absolute gentleman.

Former Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez today donated £96,000 to the Hillsborough Family Support Group.

The Spaniard, who has been confirmed as Inter Milan's new boss, met with representatives of the HFSG at their Anfield Sports and Community Centre offices before handing a cheque over to the organisation's chairwoman Margaret Aspinall.

Mrs Aspinall said: "The gesture was he wanted to do something for the fans and he knows Hillsborough is part of that.

"He handed a cheque over and wished us all the best in the quest for the truth."

[prefly]

Thanks Rafa

[Judge Judy]

will certainly go down in LFC Folk Lore, you just knew he had his heart in the club.

[El Pibe D'Oro]

Insua being tracked by Fiorentina

[Chade]

will certainly go down in LFC Folk Lore, you just knew he had his heart in the club.

I think Rafa believes in what he's doing, wherever he is... That donation just increased my estimation of him by a bit.

[10]

would like to see him do well at Inter ... still think we should have held on to him, will be interesting to see who replaces him.