Australian Under 13 Boys Football Team - Selection Camp

[Allrise]

Not one SA lad chosen for the 30 man selection camp

http://www.footballfedvic.com.au/pageit ... ityID=7250

[cheesecake shop 2]

obviously our under 13's are not up to standard.

[johnydep]

Not one SA lad chosen for the 30 man selection camp

http://www.footballfedvic.com.au/pageit ... ityID=7250

Shocking and sad, but understandable for many reasons. Shall I share my thoughts and get tarred and feathered?

[ballmaster]

Share your thoughts. We may all have the same thinking.

[Green_Manalishi]

18 of the 30 from New South Wales. Only two from Victoria which is surprising as they came second in their group.

One SA player made the Allstars Group 1 team.

South Australia came bottom of their group - 2 draws and 3 losses.

More info and results here...

http://www.capitalfootball.com.au/site/ ... s_2010.php

[6]

Not one SA lad chosen for the 30 man selection camp

http://www.footballfedvic.com.au/pageit ... ityID=7250

Shocking and sad, but understandable for many reasons. Shall I share my thoughts and get tarred and feathered?

Go on.....

[maximum]

Good old SA !

[Stitch This]

Good old SA !

We value your input.

[Bresciano]

Not one SA lad chosen for the 30 man selection camp

http://www.footballfedvic.com.au/pageit ... ityID=7250

Shocking and sad, but understandable for many reasons. Shall I share my thoughts and get tarred and feathered?

Really keen to hear your reasons - we must be doing something wrong with zero.

[deets]

Have seen the keeper from the bulleen club & is a standout - all quality at that young age.

[DUKE BLUE]

Not one SA lad chosen for the 30 man selection camp

http://www.footballfedvic.com.au/pageit ... ityID=7250

Shocking and sad, but understandable for many reasons. Shall I share my thoughts and get tarred and feathered?

Really keen to hear your reasons - we must be doing something wrong with zero.

I think johnydep may agree we are doing it wrong at the grass roots?
Too many clubs & coaches satisfied with results rather than development.

[Soap Box]

Too many clubs & coaches satisfied with results rather than development.[/quote]

dont blame the coaches and clubs, its the players as well. Be honest, how many players do you know that want to play for a losing team, they all want to win. And the biggest culprits in this is those PARENTS who only want there kids to play in an "A" division winning team. Everyone talks about developing players but the truth is that everyone wants to be part of a winning team.

If the only focus is player development then get rid of divisions, promotions, relegations and the entire jpl competition. Then watch a mass exodus to other sports because at the end of the day, the kids that want to play a competitive sport also want to win.

[Green_Manalishi]

Too many clubs & coaches satisfied with results rather than development.

dont blame the coaches and clubs, its the players as well. Be honest, how many players do you know that want to play for a losing team, they all want to win. And the biggest culprits in this is those PARENTS who only want there kids to play in an "A" division winning team. Everyone talks about developing players but the truth is that everyone wants to be part of a winning team.

If the only focus is player development then get rid of divisions, promotions, relegations and the entire jpl competition. Then watch a mass exodus to other sports because at the end of the day, the kids that want to play a competitive sport also want to win.

So are you both suggesting they don't have these issues in other states and that is why SA had a disappointing tournament?

[DUKE BLUE]

Too many clubs & coaches satisfied with results rather than development.

dont blame the coaches and clubs, its the players as well. Be honest, how many players do you know that want to play for a losing team, they all want to win. And the biggest culprits in this is those PARENTS who only want there kids to play in an "A" division winning team. Everyone talks about developing players but the truth is that everyone wants to be part of a winning team.

If the only focus is player development then get rid of divisions, promotions, relegations and the entire jpl competition. Then watch a mass exodus to other sports because at the end of the day, the kids that want to play a competitive sport also want to win.[/quote]

Nothing wrong with being in a winning team....No-one wants to be in team that loses week in week out.

I am indicating that player development (technical ability & game awareness) & should include...able to play both feet & not being pigeon holed to one playing position.

[Soap Box]

Too many clubs & coaches satisfied with results rather than development.

dont blame the coaches and clubs, its the players as well. Be honest, how many players do you know that want to play for a losing team, they all want to win. And the biggest culprits in this is those PARENTS who only want there kids to play in an "A" division winning team. Everyone talks about developing players but the truth is that everyone wants to be part of a winning team.

If the only focus is player development then get rid of divisions, promotions, relegations and the entire jpl competition. Then watch a mass exodus to other sports because at the end of the day, the kids that want to play a competitive sport also want to win.

So are you both suggesting they don't have these issues in other states and that is why SA had a disappointing tournament?

No I'm not suggesting that at all. I was just responding to the comment that coaches and clubs should be blamed for focussing too much on results rather than development. Not all coaches think that way. On the other hand I do know of coaches who are ONLY interested in results and having the best players in their team whose skills have actually been 'developed' by other coaches. Those coaches go out and handpick players from zone teams but it is the parents that take them there because they want to be part of a so called team of superstars.

As for why SA performed poorly at the nationals maybe it is due to the quality of the players they chose for the state team? Also not forgetting that there is a bigger talent pool to choose from in NSW so hardly surprising that most of the kids selected for the selection camp come from there. Under 13s age group still has a lot of kids playing at E&D and other associations and they come across to FFSA clubs at 14 and 15 which are the age groups we seem to do better with at the national championships when we have a bigger group of stronger players to choose from. Just my thoughts anyway.

[Željko Jurin]

.
Under 13s age group still has a lot of kids playing at E&D and other associations and they come across to FFSA clubs at 14 and 15 which are the age groups we seem to do better with at the national championships when we have a bigger group of stronger players to choose from. Just my thoughts anyway.

So it's because of E&D that FFSA u/14 and u/15 are doing well at the Nationals, because majority are from E&D and come over when they are 14 and 15 ??

[Mad_Max]

So it's because of E&D that FFSA u/14 and u/15 are doing well at the Nationals, because majority are from E&D and come over when they are 14 and 15 ??

There goes the neighbourhood

[Soap Box]

just pointing out that SA's state teams do better in the older age groups and perhaps that is because there are more players to choose from than there is at U13s. Who knows.

Maybe some of the better U13s players didn't get a look in this year or maybe there parents couldn't afford to pay for them to be in the state team and then have to pay for their trip to the nationals. So the only kids that go to the nationals are those that can afford it. Are we sending the best possible team of players then? There must be a lot of talented kids who miss out because there parents just cant afford for them to be in the state system. Shame.

[harrycripps]

This is my take on the situation

Initially the clubs have to nominate 6 players to trial for zone teams. After the coaches son, the managers son, the sponsors son and the son of someone else politically connected gets put forward there are only 2 places left. Talented kids can easily be missed at the first hurdle.

Secondly zone squads trial for selection to zone teams. From what I saw coaches want to win this tournament for their own egos and not to showcase talent, therefore physically stronger kids get the nod. Talented kids can easily be missed at the second hurdle.

Thirdly, zone players trial for state squad places. Bla Bla Bla for similar reasons stated above talented kids get overlooked. I believe some very talented kids went to Canberra but I don't think that the FFSA coaching staff were in sync with the expectations of the ffa observers. The fact that they came bottom is immaterial, it wasnt about winning.

I hope that Airton Andrioli has a huge shake up of the talent identification process and makes sure that the coaches and selectors appointed at each stage have a much clearer idea of the bigger picture as laid out by the FFA.

IMO the talent is there.

[rabbit]

This is my take on the situation

Initially the clubs have to nominate 6 players to trial for zone teams. After the coaches son, the managers son, the sponsors son and the son of someone else politically connected gets put forward there are only 2 places left. Talented kids can easily be missed at the first hurdle.

Secondly zone squads trial for selection to zone teams. From what I saw coaches want to win this tournament for their own egos and not to showcase talent, therefore physically stronger kids get the nod. Talented kids can easily be missed at the second hurdle.
Thirdly, zone players trial for state squad places. Bla Bla Bla for similar reasons stated above talented kids get overlooked. I believe some very talented kids went to Canberra but I don't think that the FFSA coaching staff were in sync with the expectations of the ffa observers. The fact that they came bottom is immaterial, it wasnt about winning.

I hope that Airton Andrioli has a huge shake up of the talent identification process and makes sure that the coaches and selectors appointed at each stage have a much clearer idea of the bigger picture as laid out by the FFA.

IMO the talent is there.

Really, I actually had a few smaller kids in my squad. And Coaches with an ego.....not me obviously....
The rest of the cynicism I agree with whole heartedly

[Big Mac]

Dont what to blow smoke up the ol' Rabbit hole, but Rabbit I did listen and watch some of the stuff you do (from nearby bushes), and yes you are a amongst a select few who do what you say(trust me).
Harry Cripps is spot on when it comes to talent ID, I believe that coaches for the Zone Champs. should coach out of their regular season age group and also not coach their own child during the Champs.
If talent identification was really serious then trial numbers per club should be open, not restricted. Let the Zone coach decide on selections.

[Big Mac]

This is my take on the situation

Initially the clubs have to nominate 6 players to trial for zone teams. After the coaches son, the managers son, the sponsors son and the son of someone else politically connected gets put forward there are only 2 places left. Talented kids can easily be missed at the first hurdle.

Secondly zone squads trial for selection to zone teams. From what I saw coaches want to win this tournament for their own egos and not to showcase talent, therefore physically stronger kids get the nod. Talented kids can easily be missed at the second hurdle.
Thirdly, zone players trial for state squad places. Bla Bla Bla for similar reasons stated above talented kids get overlooked. I believe some very talented kids went to Canberra but I don't think that the FFSA coaching staff were in sync with the expectations of the ffa observers. The fact that they came bottom is immaterial, it wasnt about winning.

I hope that Airton Andrioli has a huge shake up of the talent identification process and makes sure that the coaches and selectors appointed at each stage have a much clearer idea of the bigger picture as laid out by the FFA.

IMO the talent is there.

Really, I actually had a few smaller kids in my squad. And Coaches with an ego.....not me obviously....
The rest of the cynicism I agree with whole heartedly

Remember.....EGO is not a dirty word.
Dont all you coaches do it for the ego?

[6]

Not one SA lad chosen for the 30 man selection camp

http://www.footballfedvic.com.au/pageit ... ityID=7250

Shocking and sad, but understandable for many reasons. Shall I share my thoughts and get tarred and feathered?

Go on.....

it would be interesting to hear your point of view JD......
Many would think similarly I think.

[Marley]

Dont worry small sided games will lead us to the promised land

[Željko Jurin]

just pointing out that SA's state teams do better in the older age groups and perhaps that is because there are more players to choose from than there is at U13s. Who knows.

Maybe some of the better U13s players didn't get a look in this year or maybe there parents couldn't afford to pay for them to be in the state team and then have to pay for their trip to the nationals. So the only kids that go to the nationals are those that can afford it. Are we sending the best possible team of players then? There must be a lot of talented kids who miss out because there parents just cant afford for them to be in the state system. Shame.

Read about this, Project 22 in NSW, and you'll see how far behind SA is !!

http://www.footballnsw.com.au/index.php?id=500

[johnydep]

I think johnydep may agree we are doing it wrong at the grass roots?

Too many clubs & coaches satisfied with results rather than development.

Yes, in part.

Everyone has differing opinions and I don’t pretend to be an expert on the subject, my opinion is one that has been formed while being involved with junior football, watching games, training and development training, and talking to people at the grass roots.

Coaches and clubs are doing the best they can with the system they have. A system that has worked in the past when football was a minnow and struggled to get players, but much has change since then. The FFA and FFSA are bringing in change to bring us closer to world best standards; for some reason it’s a slow process.

I see our junior development system (which is all junior football) based on ‘results by competition’ when it should be ‘results by development’. Develop the players and team then results will follow with long term benefits. It shouldn't be about how many U12, U13, U14 trophies we have but how many players we've developed.

Instead we force our young players to give us instant results, results that seem to be more important to the adults. We assess teams and clubs by the win / loss ratio, rather than player skills and development. Intentionally or unintentionally we pressure coaches and players to win regardless of the cost and frown on all losses.

When I watch junior games I see teams lock players into one position for the whole season, year after year; why? Surely it's better for the child to learn and play all positions of the game.

Why do teams have a parent on the other side of the field of the coach yelling out orders? "Bring it down the line...cross it...bring it wide...pass it now....give it to Eddy". Because the parents want a win and do not realise the damage they're doing.

Junior players need time to learn for themselves they need to think for themselves and learn from their own mistakes, but parents and coaches are too scared to let them do that because the mistakes cost goals and possibly games. Which again is a cause of the 'competition system' we have, were our junior teams must finish in a competitive spot on the ladder for promotion.

Yes kids need competition, we just need to find a different way to give it to them.

I think that the current system helps create a disproportional amount of ‘impact players’. Players that give instant results with their speed of attack and interception, which cause oppositions to lose structure and open up and become leaky.

Nothing wrong with an impact player; they're talented, entertaining to watch and bring results. However, we do not continue to nurture those skills correctly or long enough and we lose a lot as they reach the end of the junior pathway.

Looking around I see coaches and selectors choosing these 'impact players' with the direct aim of winning and lose site of the long term goal of developing an intelligent player. We chase results and this is affecting how we identify players.

Take the under 12's for example, an age where skill, strength and mental prowess is starting to kick in; teams are required to finish in the top 3 for a guaranteed U13A spot in the following season.
Most clubs, coaches, players and parents want an A team (be part of a winning team) as some have posted. Imagine the pressure that this puts on coaches, players and clubs.
Why do teams keep scoring after 10 goals? If we truly want to develop players we'd bring in coaching tactics during the game to help both teams; 3 or 4 touches before scoring the next goal, keeper must throw to defence, etc. It doesn't happen because of the 'competition system', teams need win and need to have high goal averages for the league ladder.

Every week coaches set up their strongest team for the maximum chance of winning the game. Weaker players start on the bench and higher skilled players get locked into his/her perceived best position; is this a formula for development or winning?
It's like learning at school; teachers don't find the best mathematicians and separate them from the readers and teach only what they're good at; as parents we wouldn't accept it because it's a formula for failure for the child. Governing bodies would not accept it either because of the long term damage to the system that we call the 'society and economy'.

The FFA and FFSA have introduced Small Sided Football with the main aim of removing the pressure of competition and allow development to be the primary goal. It is taking time to convince everyone because change is hard for the older generation; adults want to see a winner and a loser.
SSF is more than just creating a street style football game, it's about letting the kids play their own game, letting them learn through their own mistakes with out fear of being yelled at or looked upon with disappointment, without the pressures that adults bring the the game. Let the kids play.

The FFSA are going out to clubs, demonstrating parts of the FFA Football Curriculum, a great initiative and a tool that should be used by all clubs.

One point they make is distribution of the ball from the back so that play can start from defence, which will help develop all players on both teams by playing the whole field and letting all players become attackers, defenders and play makers.

This can not work properly with our 'competition based system' because all the opposition has to do is throw everyone up forward on a goal kick; which they do, forcing the other team to play long balls.
I've watched U11 teams (no league ladder) try to play from the back and not get the full benefit from it because the other team see a quick easy goal; why, what benefit is there in a quick goal?

SSF helps teams use this practice with a rule that requires that players must be a certain distance away from the keeper on a goal kick.

If development rather than winning was the priority, the coach would have players pull back and and allow the opposition to start from the back line, then one team is learning how to distribute and be play makers and the other team on how to shut them down and counter attack. Both coaches should be developing all the kids.

Being on the winning team does not guarantee a professional player at the end of the junior cycle; if it did we would be exporting players to the world in quantities like Brazil.

Wrong or right that's my opinion, let me get my flame proof jacket on now

http://www.youtube.com/my_playlists?p=C8D7AFBF7BFCFFA2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x00N1XzV ... PL&index=0

[Grouch]

Well Stated Johnny
We can only hope that the other clubs follow eventually.

[prefly]

"Bravo" Johnydep, well said!

[Željko Jurin]

Too many clubs & coaches satisfied with results rather than development.

Does that include Futsal ??

[Bresciano]

U dont need your flame proof jacket. Good post. I agree with everything you've said but would like to add something. Why do coaches allow players to be so selfish? Its a team game but I continually see players cause their team turnovers coz they wont do the simple thing like pass back 1 metre, they have to be the fn hero and then lose the ball time and again. I've been watching soccer for a long time & I'm sick of watching selfish players - to me its just as big a problem as the issues you've identified.