Rafa claims Valencia dived for penalty

[toonarmy#9]

Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez felt Manchester United winger Antonio Valencia dived to win an equalising penalty in his side's 2-1 defeat at Old Trafford.

However, the Reds boss did not think Sir Alex Ferguson's pre-match suggestion that Liverpool benefited from many decisions other sides did not had a bearing on referee Howard Webb's handling of the game.

Striker Fernando Torres gave the visitors the ideal start when he headed in Dirk Kuyt's cross six yards out in the fifth minute.

However, referee Webb's controversially awarded a penalty five minutes later when Valencia went down under Javier Mascherano's challenge despite initial contact being outside the area.

Wayne Rooney converted the rebound after Jose Reina had brilliantly saved his spot-kick but it was not until midway through the second half when Park Ji-sung scored the winner from a diving header.

In the last minute Torres had a chance to equalise from 10 yards but ballooned his strike into the air and Yossi Benayoun headed tamely into goalkeeper Edwin van der Sar's arms.

"We gave away the penalty too early - but there are doubts about the penalty," said Benitez.

"When you see the replay it is suspicious how he went to the ground."

Asked whether he thought Valencia had dived Benitez said: "From the replay I think so.

"It is not clear but the way he fell down.....is strange.

"It made a big difference. We were playing well and had confidence and then one situation changed everything."

Benitez was involved with a heated touchline exchange with Ferguson after Rooney's goal, with his United counterpart suggesting Mascherano should have been sent off.

However, the Spaniard did not believe Webb had been influenced by Ferguson's comments prior to the game.

"Some decisions in the past have not been the best for us but I consider Howard Webb a good referee," he added.

"The referees are professional. We know the influence of Sir Alex in everything but he is a good referee.

"Jamie Carragher was coming inside so he was in the middle of the action (and therefore Mascherano should not have been red-carded)."

Of their touchline exchange Benitez said: "When you have different opinions you have to express them. He has his own opinion about everything."

Ferguson's opinion differed from that of Benitez.

"I thought it was a red card," he said.

"There was no way Carragher could get across and stop Valencia from shooting - he is took quick for Carragher to get across.

"The law is if you stop someone from having a goalscoring opportunity it is a red card. Not today.

"The referee was right, he tugged him down. He didn't bring him down outside the box; he didn't go down until he was inside the box. The decision was correct."

It was another occasion when Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard failed to perform as, apart from laying on the pass for Kuyt's cross for the goal, he failed to have a significant influence on the game.

There have been a number of games this season when the England international has failed to step up when the side needed him.

The sight of him being shifted from his central attacking midfield role to the left and then the right as Ryan Babel and Benayoun came on did not improve his body language, which has been poor for some time.

Benitez, however, chose to focus on the positives.

"It was a tight game and we had a good chance with Fernando or Yossi late on," he added.

"They (United) didn't create too many chances but they were always dangerous. It was close but the little things make a difference."



Without being close to their best, United ensured they will remain top, at least until Wednesday night when Chelsea play Portsmouth in their match in hand.

And whilst Rooney is gaining most of the plaudits for his goalscoring feats - he now has 33 following his 12th-minute equaliser - and man of the match Darren Fletcher emerged quite some time ago as an influential figure in the midfield battle, Park is also emerging as an unlikely hero for United.

The South Korean is ideally suited to Ferguson's preferred formation, with Rooney as a lone front-man.

And his diving header to cement all three points was testament to his willingness to run.

"Park is one of those players we can give roles to," said Ferguson.

"He has such intelligence and discipline. Today we found another role for him that was slightly different but was really important for us.

"He is such a brave little lad that his courage got him the goal."

As Carlo Ancelotti's men still have to come to Old Trafford at the beginning of next month, Ferguson's side are in charge of their own destiny.

Now Rio Ferdinand has revealed the full extent of the back injury that kept him out for three months - and from which he has now fully recovered - and, for the first time in four meetings with Liverpool, Nemanja Vidic managed to avoid a red card, Ferguson can look forward with confidence.

"We have a very experienced back four, a very experienced goalkeeper and that gives us a real outstanding chance, albeit with seven difficult matches - but we have all got difficult matches, so what does it matter?

"No-one is going away. We are all knocking on doors.

"If you look at the run-ins for the teams, it could very well go to the wire."

[Kunta Kintay]

No dive sorry Rafa. Foul began and grabbing ended all outside the box, so the correct call would have been a foul on the edge of the box and a red card issued. End of story.

[ronaldo07]

shut the f*k up fat waitress and get me a fking drink

[Litmanen]

No dive sorry Rafa. Foul began and grabbing ended all outside the box, so the correct call would have been a foul on the edge of the box and a red card issued. End of story.

So it shouldn't have been a penalty? Just asking because i haven't seen it yet.

[hero2zero]

Grabbed him outside the box, continued just on line, maybe inside. Definately went down in the box. Penalty! Running at the keeper 1 on 1, should have been a red card. Carragher never would have got across in time (too slow, maybe if he caught a cab)

[Kunta Kintay]

Correct Litmanen.

[10]

carragher was there, you can't say he wouldn't have got across because he was another man behind the ball. the fact that you are questioning whether he would/wouldn't have got there shows that Masch wasn't the last man.

in my (biased) opinion, the shirt grabbing started outside the box and whilst it wasn't a dive, valencia continued the act into the box. i was surprised with how convinced the commentators were that it was a penalty, they didn't even question it.

[Kunta Kintay]

I stand corrected:

FIFA interpretations on incidents occurring outside the box is that if an incident begins
outside the area (ie: defender holding attacker) and continues until the
players get into the box or on the line (as the line of the box is
considered inside the area), the ref is to give a penalty, not take it back
to where the incident first began.

Check Pg 110 on the link below.

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affeder ... gameen.pdf

My contact tells me that FIFA refreshed this rule not that long ago.

[vertu1]

the issue isn't whether Carragher was there or not , the only issue is was there a clear goal scoring opportunity denied ?
clearly there was
i would think at that level , while running towards goal , being in the 18 yard box would generally deem one to be in a scoring zone
a guy in the penalty area with the ball in front of him, with no defender in his way is surely to be considered a goal scoring opportunity

even if Carragher could have got across by the time the Valencia got to the six yard box ( and he wouldnt have anyway ) so what? Valencia would have already had 12 yards of scoring opportunity


it should have been a free kick outside the box and a red card

[Nice One Cyril]

See, this is where Rafa is able to claim the moral high ground because his players never dive

[COLOSSUS]

Was NOT a red card because at the time Valencia came tumbling down, another Liverpool defender was just about to make his move to cut Valencia off which tells me that there was no clear cut scoring opportunity denied, Webb got that much right, what he got wrong however, was the fact that Valencia only fell inside the box after his shirt was clearly grabbed outside the box, that much was so obvious its almost hard to imagine that Webb himself didnt see it the same way. Of course, Man U deserved the victory, Liverpool were nowhere to be found last night

[Loppermann]

Was NOT a red card because at the time Valencia came tumbling down, another Liverpool defender was just about to make his move to cut Valencia off which tells me that there was no clear cut scoring opportunity denied, Webb got that much right, what he got wrong however, was the fact that Valencia only fell inside the box after his shirt was clearly grabbed outside the box, that much was so obvious its almost hard to imagine that Webb himself didnt see it the same way. Of course, Man U deserved the victory, Liverpool were nowhere to be found last night

read Kunta Kintay's post regarding the rules for fouls outside the box that continue into the box

[COLOSSUS]

Was NOT a red card because at the time Valencia came tumbling down, another Liverpool defender was just about to make his move to cut Valencia off which tells me that there was no clear cut scoring opportunity denied, Webb got that much right, what he got wrong however, was the fact that Valencia only fell inside the box after his shirt was clearly grabbed outside the box, that much was so obvious its almost hard to imagine that Webb himself didnt see it the same way. Of course, Man U deserved the victory, Liverpool were nowhere to be found last night

read Kunta Kintay's post regarding the rules for fouls outside the box that continue into the box

Maybe its you who should read it tough guy, it clearly states

and continues until the
players get into the box or on the line (as the line of the box is
considered inside the area), the ref is to give a penalty, not take it back
to where the incident first began

That being the case, then a penalty definitely should not have been awarded because Mascherano was not holding onto anything when he and Valencia got inside the box therefore the incident was NOT continued inside the box, Valencia merely fell in it (the box)

[ozzie owl]

I thought that the contact ended before Valencia entered the penalty area.

My question would be if that had been Vidic on Torres what would have Fergie said?

[Le King]

Was a penalty i thought, although contact was 1st made outside the box, mascherano continued the contact in the box where valencia then went 2 ground...
rememba vidic in the carlin cup final, caught gabby outside the box, ref called play on, and then fouled him in the box, and penalty was given
very similar to this 1!!

mascha was lucky he didnt see red. all pool supproters claimin it was outside the box, but hw bout him seein red? none of u complain about that

[Loppermann]

Was NOT a red card because at the time Valencia came tumbling down, another Liverpool defender was just about to make his move to cut Valencia off which tells me that there was no clear cut scoring opportunity denied, Webb got that much right, what he got wrong however, was the fact that Valencia only fell inside the box after his shirt was clearly grabbed outside the box, that much was so obvious its almost hard to imagine that Webb himself didnt see it the same way. Of course, Man U deserved the victory, Liverpool were nowhere to be found last night

read Kunta Kintay's post regarding the rules for fouls outside the box that continue into the box

Maybe its you who should read it tough guy, it clearly states

and continues until the
players get into the box or on the line (as the line of the box is
considered inside the area), the ref is to give a penalty, not take it back
to where the incident first began

That being the case, then a penalty definitely should not have been awarded because Mascherano was not holding onto anything when he and Valencia got inside the box therefore the incident was NOT continued inside the box, Valencia merely fell in it (the box)

lol, you're far too easy to get a reaction out of

[Hosovac]

Was no different to when Rafael tugged on Bellamy outside the area and he went down in the box - penalty was awarded that day...although I seem to recall Fergie having a whinge that the foul was outside the area.

[Kunta Kintay]

I said it was a red MUFCBOY.

Fletcher should have been sent off for lashing out at Kuyt though, that can't be denied.

[Le King]

Was no different to when Rafael tugged on Bellamy outside the area and he went down in the box - penalty was awarded that day...although I seem to recall Fergie having a whinge that the foul was outside the area.

i refer back 2 anfield this season when carragher went in 2 footed on carrick in the back n nuffin was given
still tryin 2 find it on youtube

loved vds on torres, askin him y he didnt dive hahaha

[Litmanen]

Can't rely on refs to make the big decisions in big games. (for or against your team)

AS ALWAYS!

[The Kop]

Was no different to when Rafael tugged on Bellamy outside the area and he went down in the box - penalty was awarded that day...although I seem to recall Fergie having a whinge that the foul was outside the area.

i refer back 2 anfield this season when carragher went in 2 footed on carrick in the back n nuffin was given
still tryin 2 find it on youtube

loved vds on torres, askin him y he didnt dive hahaha

cos he's made of sterner stuff than Valencia.....

[BTAC]

Was no different to when Rafael tugged on Bellamy outside the area and he went down in the box - penalty was awarded that day...although I seem to recall Fergie having a whinge that the foul was outside the area.

i refer back 2 anfield this season when carragher went in 2 footed on carrick in the back n nuffin was given
still tryin 2 find it on youtube

loved vds on torres, askin him y he didnt dive hahaha

Nothing was given because he got the ball first. Clean challenge from Carra.

[TOPGUNJIMMYAUFC]

might as well call melbornes goal a goal then ey!! dumb fuucks you tossers are......liverpool shhittttttt, admitt it

[BTAC]

might as well call melbornes goal a goal then ey!! dumb fuucks you tossers are......liverpool shhittttttt, admitt it

Naaaaahhhh faaarrrkkkeeeenennnnn urrrr thee dumb farrrkkkkskss mancc cunnntttttts

[COLOSSUS]

read Kunta Kintay's post regarding the rules for fouls outside the box that continue into the box

Maybe its you who should read it tough guy, it clearly states

and continues until the
players get into the box or on the line (as the line of the box is
considered inside the area), the ref is to give a penalty, not take it back
to where the incident first began

That being the case, then a penalty definitely should not have been awarded because Mascherano was not holding onto anything when he and Valencia got inside the box therefore the incident was NOT continued inside the box, Valencia merely fell in it (the box)

lol, you're far too easy to get a reaction out of

You didnt get a reaction loopy, you got a reply post to a post you quoted me on Of course though like the rest of your mates and aliases on here, as soon as you are made to look wrong, you jump on the "gone fishing"/"got a reaction" bandwagon. Typical really

[COLOSSUS]

.....mascherano continued the contact in the box

Clearly, you didnt watch the game live or on replay did you??? No he did not continue the contact in the box, refer back to your fox box if you have one please!!!

mascha was lucky he didnt see red

Me thinks he was more lucky not to be dragged by Benitez for a challenge he didnt need to make because it was NEVER a red card offence, that much was obvious. Again refer to your fox box and have a look at the Liverpool defender that was ready to cut across and get in front of Valencia right before he falls in the box

all pool supproters claimin it was outside the box.....

Probably because it was, again please refer to your fox box

[tickets4cheese]

in my opinion, definite penalty but no red card. any one that thinks fletcher shoulda been sent off is retarded and just eating sour grapes, once agin in my opinion.

also can't believeTorres' dsigusting action in kicking the divet in the penalty spot to try interfere with rooneys penalty, talk about a bad sport, looked like he didn't want to be there all day other than when he scored. looks like a player wanting a move to a big club

[ronaldo07]

agree with tickets4cheese

[Steelinho]

in my opinion, definite penalty but no red card. any one that thinks fletcher shoulda been sent off is retarded and just eating sour grapes, once agin in my opinion.

also can't believeTorres' dsigusting action in kicking the divet in the penalty spot to try interfere with rooneys penalty, talk about a bad sport, looked like he didn't want to be there all day other than when he scored. looks like a player wanting a move to a big club

Completely agree, though I think Mascherano should have been booked for it, despite the fact a penalty was given. Yellow card-worthy, sure, but not red.

There were a few Liverpool players having a cry in the penalty box when Torres gave the spot a kick, which is probably why he figured he could get away with it. And he was lucky, really.


I think in all, regardless of the result/bias, nobody should be complaining about the referee for this game. I feel he did a pretty good job for the stature of that game, even if he may have missed a few bookable things from both sides... it probably would have ended in the same result anyway.

[Ubietz]

See, this is where Rafa is able to claim the moral high ground because his players never dive

No takers?