Unimpressive Gerrard and Torres

[Stitch This]

Wigan 1-0 Liverpool

Just thought I'd give Walcott a break

[BTAC]

Neither of them two played well, but the ones that really ought to be singled out for that performance are Kuyt and Insua. Absolutely terrible. We would have been better off chucking Rafa and Sammy Lee out there.

[ozzie owl]

I cannot believe that a club that has spent so much money can be so poor. Even the recent games where they have won, they have only ground out results.

[ronaldo07]

simply made my day feel any better

[3lionsonashirt]

liverpool have been disgraceful this season, rafa has to go, he got lucky with his two cup wins for us, and also sold one of our best players and failed to sign a half decent replacement.

[Le King]

from readin the reports it seems like they had chances, but turned out 2 be 1 of them games, where ur knockin on the door and if u score 1 ud score like 5

wigan were payin 6.70 for the win.... i hope that bloke at my work smacked a 50 on it

[LUFC]

Neither of them two played well, but the ones that really ought to be singled out for that performance are Kuyt and Insua. Absolutely terrible. We would have been better off chucking Rafa and Sammy Lee out there.

Not really. Torres missed at least 3 sitters.

[BTAC]

Neither of them two played well, but the ones that really ought to be singled out for that performance are Kuyt and Insua. Absolutely terrible. We would have been better off chucking Rafa and Sammy Lee out there.

Not really. Torres missed at least 3 sitters.

If you read what I said, I did state that neither Gerrard nor Torres played well. Yes, Torres probably would have gotten 2 or 3 on another day, but you cannot tell me he was anywhere near as bad as Kuyt or Insua. Them two were woeful. I can't kick a ball as far as Kuyts first touch, and Insua got the piss taken outta him time and time again by N'Zogbia. Admittedly we didn't have anyone to replace Insua with, but the fact that Kuyt lasted 82 minutes was an absolute joke. Couldn't believe it when I saw Yossi was the one coming off for Aquilani.

[Le King]

Neither of them two played well, but the ones that really ought to be singled out for that performance are Kuyt and Insua. Absolutely terrible. We would have been better off chucking Rafa and Sammy Lee out there.

Not really. Torres missed at least 3 sitters.

If you read what I said, I did state that neither Gerrard nor Torres played well. Yes, Torres probably would have gotten 2 or 3 on another day, but you cannot tell me he was anywhere near as bad as Kuyt or Insua. Them two were woeful. I can't kick a ball as far as Kuyts first touch, and Insua got the piss taken outta him time and time again by N'Zogbia. Admittedly we didn't have anyone to replace Insua with, but the fact that Kuyt lasted 82 minutes was an absolute joke. Couldn't believe it when I saw Yossi was the one coming off for Aquilani.

y dun the pool fans chat

ARE U VIDMAR IN DISGUISE!!
ARE U VIDMAR...
ARE U VIDMAR....
ARE U VIDMAR IN DISGUISE???

[Nice One Cyril]

Realistically none of the teams chasing fourth spot have played well enough to actually deserve it. They've all dropped plenty of points and nobody has been outstanding for more than a couple of games in a row. Still plenty of football to be played yet and Villa and Spurs are still in the Cup.

One of the more exciting EPL seasons though. Thanks Rafa

[ronaldo07]

Realistically none of the teams chasing fourth spot have played well enough to actually deserve it. They've all dropped plenty of points and nobody has been outstanding for more than a couple of games in a row. Still plenty of football to be played yet and Villa and Spurs are still in the Cup.

One of the more exciting EPL seasons though. Thanks Rafa

i personally think aston villa deserve it .. they've been playin well and consistent throught the whole season !!

[Nice One Cyril]

Realistically none of the teams chasing fourth spot have played well enough to actually deserve it. They've all dropped plenty of points and nobody has been outstanding for more than a couple of games in a row. Still plenty of football to be played yet and Villa and Spurs are still in the Cup.

One of the more exciting EPL seasons though. Thanks Rafa

i personally think aston villa deserve it .. they've been playin well and consistent throught the whole season !!

Well Spurs totally outplayed Villa in both games (but only ended up with two draws) so you could say that Spurs were the better team and deserve fourth. Liverpool trounced Spurs at Anfield so maybe they deserve fourth. Fact is, none of the four or five teams chasing the CL spot actually look like a CL team at the moment.

[Litmanen]

Realistically none of the teams chasing fourth spot have played well enough to actually deserve it. They've all dropped plenty of points and nobody has been outstanding for more than a couple of games in a row. Still plenty of football to be played yet and Villa and Spurs are still in the Cup.

One of the more exciting EPL seasons though. Thanks Rafa

i personally think aston villa deserve it .. they've been playin well and consistent throught the whole season !!

Well Spurs totally outplayed Villa in both games (but only ended up with two draws) so you could say that Spurs were the better team and deserve fourth. Liverpool trounced Spurs at Anfield so maybe they deserve fourth. Fact is, none of the four or five teams chasing the CL spot actually look like a CL team at the moment.

having said all that you'd think if Man City finished th ( i believe they will), there will be another huge cash injection, and they would more than likely be the "best" of the current teams aiming for that 4th spot.

Man City should really start looking for good players that play in France like Chelsea did. Drogba and Essien are prime examples of brilliant transfers. Having said all that, i guess they don't have Mourinho at the helm.... yet.

[Lucas is god]

Neither of them two played well, but the ones that really ought to be singled out for that performance are Kuyt and Insua. Absolutely terrible. We would have been better off chucking Rafa and Sammy Lee out there.

Not really. Torres missed at least 3 sitters.

If you read what I said, I did state that neither Gerrard nor Torres played well. Yes, Torres probably would have gotten 2 or 3 on another day, but you cannot tell me he was anywhere near as bad as Kuyt or Insua. Them two were woeful. I can't kick a ball as far as Kuyts first touch, and Insua got the piss taken outta him time and time again by N'Zogbia. Admittedly we didn't have anyone to replace Insua with, but the fact that Kuyt lasted 82 minutes was an absolute joke. Couldn't believe it when I saw Yossi was the one coming off for Aquilani.

Kuyt made one major mistake, i like how your more then happy to accept it when he wins the merseyside derby for us or when he single handedly takes down spurs but as soon as he makes a mistake ur right on his back. Kyrgiakos got sent off in the derby and you didn't blame him for making a mistake. If i remember correctly in the corresponding fixture last year Agger put Zaki in on goal, you didnt bring that up, nor did you bring up the fact kuyt saved his ass that day. Inter milan, Chelsea, Arsenal in the champions league and you didn't criticise him that day, he was the second highest scoring rm in the premier league last year and you didnt complain then. As for Insua the guy is what 21? 22? and hes the first choice left back at liverpool football club and your saying he isnt a good player? N'gog is the one you should be looking at callum, if hes so good then why hasnt he scored 20 goals this year, hes started more games upfront then kuyt and i bet you kuyt has kicked more goals then him. Stop complaining about what we dont have and appreciate what we have got, atleast kuyt loves the shirt which is more than a lot of players at our club. Pepe has been our best player but i blame the defence which agger is appart of for making this so.

[ronaldo07]

very well said Frithy !! if i were a liverpool supporter (thanks god im not), i think i'll like kuyt - not only because he score some crucial goals , also the fact that he work his ass out for the team !! taking out those points that kuyt has saved u this season, i think you'll be sitting in the middle of the table at best !!

[Lucas is god]

very well said Frithy !! if i were a liverpool supporter (thanks god im not), i think i'll like kuyt - not only because he score some crucial goals , also the fact that he work his ass out for the team !! taking out those points that kuyt has saved u this season, i think you'll be sitting in the middle of the table at best !!

oh no a man u supporter agreed with me, i must be wrong lol

[BTAC]

If you read what I said, I did state that neither Gerrard nor Torres played well. Yes, Torres probably would have gotten 2 or 3 on another day, but you cannot tell me he was anywhere near as bad as Kuyt or Insua. Them two were woeful. I can't kick a ball as far as Kuyts first touch, and Insua got the piss taken outta him time and time again by N'Zogbia. Admittedly we didn't have anyone to replace Insua with, but the fact that Kuyt lasted 82 minutes was an absolute joke. Couldn't believe it when I saw Yossi was the one coming off for Aquilani.

Kuyt made one major mistake , i like how your more then happy to accept it when he wins the merseyside derby for us or when he single handedly takes down spurs but as soon as he makes a mistake ur right on his back. Kyrgiakos got sent off in the derby and you didn't blame him for making a mistake. If i remember correctly in the corresponding fixture last year Agger put Zaki in on goal, you didnt bring that up, nor did you bring up the fact kuyt saved his ass that day. Inter milan, Chelsea, Arsenal in the champions league and you didn't criticise him that day, he was the second highest scoring rm in the premier league last year and you didnt complain then. As for Insua the guy is what 21? 22? and hes the first choice left back at liverpool football club and your saying he isnt a good player? N'gog is the one you should be looking at callum, if hes so good then why hasnt he scored 20 goals this year, hes started more games upfront then kuyt and i bet you kuyt has kicked more goals then him. Stop complaining about what we dont have and appreciate what we have got, atleast kuyt loves the shirt which is more than a lot of players at our club. Pepe has been our best player but i blame the defence which agger is appart of for making this so.

Thats like your fifth account on here now.
Kuyt made one major mistake (which lead to the goal that won Wigan the game), true. But you're neglecting to mention that he made about 150 other mistakes in that match, but I see why you chose not to mention that...its what we've come to expect from a limited player such as Kuyt.

As for him 'single handedly' taking down Spurs, he was part of an 11 man squad that day right? He scored twice, the first of which was a nice goal. The second was a penalty. Now you can go on and on about how it takes a lot of composure to score penalties in front of that many people and ra ra ra, but footballers are being paid top dollar and should be scoring penalties 90% of the time.

Yes, I'm on his back when he makes a mistake. You know why? Because I think he's useless. Go on Liverpoolfc.tv and check out the forums on there regarding his performance against Wigan. Even those who openly admit to liking Kuyt were in complete shock at how somebody could be so poor.

Yes, Kyrgiakos got sent off in the game against Everton. Big deal, we got the three points. Kyrgiakos has been great in the games he's played for us this season. He's surpassed a lot of peoples expectations and theres no way in hell you can argue he's a great 4th choice centre back. Hell, aside from Johnson when he was fit at the beginning of the season, Kyrgiakos has probably been our best defender this season.

Also, Agger did gift Wigan a goal last season, but immediately responded with a great run forward resulting in our equaliser. He didn't give the ball away with every touch there after, such as Kuyt did yesterday morning. But just for the record, this topic isn't about Agger or anyone else. You can have a dig at him all you want, it doesn't bother me. He's my favourite player, but hes human. All defenders are, and all of them will make mistakes. That Zaki one seems to be the only one I can remember where he clearly handed the team a goal...whereas I can think of many instances in which Skrtel/Carra/Insua have.

Please, enlighten me as to where I said Insua isn't a good player? I said he was woeful against Wigan. If you even try to argue with that then you're clearly brain damaged. N'Zogbia took the piss out of him every time down that wing, and almost scored a second for Wigan due to Insuas poor positioning and lack of concentration. He chased him back well to begin with, but let N'Zogbia in behind him because he tuned out and I'm sure you remember what happened next...Reina pulled off a great save and Insua was spared the embarrassment.

Okay, I'm gonna first point out here that one of the main reasons you don't like David (and deny this all you want, you have stated this on a number of occasions), is because you think he looks smug. Now I'm no expert, but when did looks come into judging a players ability?
Ngog is one of the few players this season that can hold their head up high and say "You know what, I did alright this season". For a 20 year old deputising for arguably the best striker in the world, you really can't ask for any more than Ngog has given us. He's a great up and comer, and with more games and more experience, he will continue to go from strength to strength. We've got a real talent in Ngog.

[The Kop]

Not really. Torres missed at least 3 sitters.

If you read what I said, I did state that neither Gerrard nor Torres played well. Yes, Torres probably would have gotten 2 or 3 on another day, but you cannot tell me he was anywhere near as bad as Kuyt or Insua. Them two were woeful. I can't kick a ball as far as Kuyts first touch, and Insua got the piss taken outta him time and time again by N'Zogbia. Admittedly we didn't have anyone to replace Insua with, but the fact that Kuyt lasted 82 minutes was an absolute joke. Couldn't believe it when I saw Yossi was the one coming off for Aquilani.

Kuyt made one major mistake, i like how your more then happy to accept it when he wins the merseyside derby for us or when he single handedly takes down spurs but as soon as he makes a mistake ur right on his back. Kyrgiakos got sent off in the derby and you didn't blame him for making a mistake. If i remember correctly in the corresponding fixture last year Agger put Zaki in on goal, you didnt bring that up, nor did you bring up the fact kuyt saved his ass that day. Inter milan, Chelsea, Arsenal in the champions league and you didn't criticise him that day, he was the second highest scoring rm in the premier league last year and you didnt complain then. As for Insua the guy is what 21? 22? and hes the first choice left back at liverpool football club and your saying he isnt a good player? N'gog is the one you should be looking at callum, if hes so good then why hasnt he scored 20 goals this year, hes started more games upfront then kuyt and i bet you kuyt has kicked more goals then him. Stop complaining about what we dont have and appreciate what we have got, atleast kuyt loves the shirt which is more than a lot of players at our club. Pepe has been our best player but i blame the defence which agger is appart of for making this so.

good post. agree with most parts.
pepe has been outstanding, definately the best keeper in the PL. One of the top 5 if not top 3 in Europe.

But, if we're allocating blame anywhere to particular lines I'd say the midfield and attack have alot more to answer for.
One thing ive noticed this year more than most is the amount of pressure the defence is under. The ball goes forward and in a matter of seconds theres a turnover and its coming back again on the counter. We simply cant hold the ball further up the park like in previous seasons.

Lack of individual and team motivation to me seems obvious and lack of depth in midfield would be to two main reasons this season has gone to sh|ts. Inability to score away from home is also a worrying aspect, we've only scored 12 from 15 games away. Equal to the mighty Hammers in who are 16th spot, less than Bolton, Sunderland and Wigan!

The talent is for the better part there. The core of an EPL winning side remains, its the level below that blows.

[Lucas is god]

If you read what I said, I did state that neither Gerrard nor Torres played well. Yes, Torres probably would have gotten 2 or 3 on another day, but you cannot tell me he was anywhere near as bad as Kuyt or Insua. Them two were woeful. I can't kick a ball as far as Kuyts first touch, and Insua got the piss taken outta him time and time again by N'Zogbia. Admittedly we didn't have anyone to replace Insua with, but the fact that Kuyt lasted 82 minutes was an absolute joke. Couldn't believe it when I saw Yossi was the one coming off for Aquilani.

Kuyt made one major mistake , i like how your more then happy to accept it when he wins the merseyside derby for us or when he single handedly takes down spurs but as soon as he makes a mistake ur right on his back. Kyrgiakos got sent off in the derby and you didn't blame him for making a mistake. If i remember correctly in the corresponding fixture last year Agger put Zaki in on goal, you didnt bring that up, nor did you bring up the fact kuyt saved his ass that day. Inter milan, Chelsea, Arsenal in the champions league and you didn't criticise him that day, he was the second highest scoring rm in the premier league last year and you didnt complain then. As for Insua the guy is what 21? 22? and hes the first choice left back at liverpool football club and your saying he isnt a good player? N'gog is the one you should be looking at callum, if hes so good then why hasnt he scored 20 goals this year, hes started more games upfront then kuyt and i bet you kuyt has kicked more goals then him. Stop complaining about what we dont have and appreciate what we have got, atleast kuyt loves the shirt which is more than a lot of players at our club. Pepe has been our best player but i blame the defence which agger is appart of for making this so.

Thats like your fifth account on here now.
Kuyt made one major mistake (which lead to the goal that won Wigan the game), true. But you're neglecting to mention that he made about 150 other mistakes in that match, but I see why you chose not to mention that...its what we've come to expect from a limited player such as Kuyt.

As for him 'single handedly' taking down Spurs, he was part of an 11 man squad that day right? He scored twice, the first of which was a nice goal. The second was a penalty. Now you can go on and on about how it takes a lot of composure to score penalties in front of that many people and ra ra ra, but footballers are being paid top dollar and should be scoring penalties 90% of the time.

Yes, I'm on his back when he makes a mistake. You know why? Because I think he's useless. Go on Liverpoolfc.tv and check out the forums on there regarding his performance against Wigan. Even those who openly admit to liking Kuyt were in complete shock at how somebody could be so poor.

Yes, Kyrgiakos got sent off in the game against Everton. Big deal, we got the three points. Kyrgiakos has been great in the games he's played for us this season. He's surpassed a lot of peoples expectations and theres no way in hell you can argue he's a great 4th choice centre back. Hell, aside from Johnson when he was fit at the beginning of the season, Kyrgiakos has probably been our best defender this season.

Also, Agger did gift Wigan a goal last season, but immediately responded with a great run forward resulting in our equaliser. He didn't give the ball away with every touch there after, such as Kuyt did yesterday morning. But just for the record, this topic isn't about Agger or anyone else. You can have a dig at him all you want, it doesn't bother me. He's my favourite player, but hes human. All defenders are, and all of them will make mistakes. That Zaki one seems to be the only one I can remember where he clearly handed the team a goal...whereas I can think of many instances in which Skrtel/Carra/Insua have.

Please, enlighten me as to where I said Insua isn't a good player? I said he was woeful against Wigan. If you even try to argue with that then you're clearly brain damaged. N'Zogbia took the piss out of him every time down that wing, and almost scored a second for Wigan due to Insuas poor positioning and lack of concentration. He chased him back well to begin with, but let N'Zogbia in behind him because he tuned out and I'm sure you remember what happened next...Reina pulled off a great save and Insua was spared the embarrassment.

Okay, I'm gonna first point out here that one of the main reasons you don't like David (and deny this all you want, you have stated this on a number of occasions), is because you think he looks smug. Now I'm no expert, but when did looks come into judging a players ability?
Ngog is one of the few players this season that can hold their head up high and say "You know what, I did alright this season". For a 20 year old deputising for arguably the best striker in the world, you really can't ask for any more than Ngog has given us. He's a great up and comer, and with more games and more experience, he will continue to go from strength to strength. We've got a real talent in Ngog.

see that ironic as i believe Ngog has a 10th of the talent he actually believes he does(hence why he always looks smug), i couldnt give a fuck how he looks he doesnt work hard when hes upfront and that for me is criminal, he gives the ball away more than kuyt. Kuyt may have had a bad game as may insua but there were 9 other woeful players out there the other night. A question you should be asking was who was marking Rodallega when the ball came into the box instead of seeing someone you don't like make a mistake and then going on and on about it all week. The only thing Ngog should be saying to himself at the end of the season is "Man im shite, i have to work harder". Dirk Kuyt may be technically one of the worst professionals in the world but he has heart and he works for the shirt, he has a habbit of scoring in big games and rescueing us there is a reason hes third in line for the liverpool captaincy and frankly he is a role model for the younger players, i cant think of anyone in the club who i would rather learn from (asside from gerrard and torres ofcourse). Footballs are human penalties can be missed we both know this(and have seen me do it on a number of occasions). You said this topic is not about David N'gog well its not about Dirk Kuyt either yet you felt the need to bring him up.

Footballs a team sport callum and it took a team playing at its worst to lose to wigan, it was not a single players fault, or even 2 players fault it was the entire teams fault.

[BTAC]

Kuyt made one major mistake , i like how your more then happy to accept it when he wins the merseyside derby for us or when he single handedly takes down spurs but as soon as he makes a mistake ur right on his back. Kyrgiakos got sent off in the derby and you didn't blame him for making a mistake. If i remember correctly in the corresponding fixture last year Agger put Zaki in on goal, you didnt bring that up, nor did you bring up the fact kuyt saved his ass that day. Inter milan, Chelsea, Arsenal in the champions league and you didn't criticise him that day, he was the second highest scoring rm in the premier league last year and you didnt complain then. As for Insua the guy is what 21? 22? and hes the first choice left back at liverpool football club and your saying he isnt a good player? N'gog is the one you should be looking at callum, if hes so good then why hasnt he scored 20 goals this year, hes started more games upfront then kuyt and i bet you kuyt has kicked more goals then him. Stop complaining about what we dont have and appreciate what we have got, atleast kuyt loves the shirt which is more than a lot of players at our club. Pepe has been our best player but i blame the defence which agger is appart of for making this so.

Thats like your fifth account on here now.
Kuyt made one major mistake (which lead to the goal that won Wigan the game), true. But you're neglecting to mention that he made about 150 other mistakes in that match, but I see why you chose not to mention that...its what we've come to expect from a limited player such as Kuyt.

As for him 'single handedly' taking down Spurs, he was part of an 11 man squad that day right? He scored twice, the first of which was a nice goal. The second was a penalty. Now you can go on and on about how it takes a lot of composure to score penalties in front of that many people and ra ra ra, but footballers are being paid top dollar and should be scoring penalties 90% of the time.

Yes, I'm on his back when he makes a mistake. You know why? Because I think he's useless. Go on Liverpoolfc.tv and check out the forums on there regarding his performance against Wigan. Even those who openly admit to liking Kuyt were in complete shock at how somebody could be so poor.

Yes, Kyrgiakos got sent off in the game against Everton. Big deal, we got the three points. Kyrgiakos has been great in the games he's played for us this season. He's surpassed a lot of peoples expectations and theres no way in hell you can argue he's a great 4th choice centre back. Hell, aside from Johnson when he was fit at the beginning of the season, Kyrgiakos has probably been our best defender this season.

Also, Agger did gift Wigan a goal last season, but immediately responded with a great run forward resulting in our equaliser. He didn't give the ball away with every touch there after, such as Kuyt did yesterday morning. But just for the record, this topic isn't about Agger or anyone else. You can have a dig at him all you want, it doesn't bother me. He's my favourite player, but hes human. All defenders are, and all of them will make mistakes. That Zaki one seems to be the only one I can remember where he clearly handed the team a goal...whereas I can think of many instances in which Skrtel/Carra/Insua have.

Please, enlighten me as to where I said Insua isn't a good player? I said he was woeful against Wigan. If you even try to argue with that then you're clearly brain damaged. N'Zogbia took the piss out of him every time down that wing, and almost scored a second for Wigan due to Insuas poor positioning and lack of concentration. He chased him back well to begin with, but let N'Zogbia in behind him because he tuned out and I'm sure you remember what happened next...Reina pulled off a great save and Insua was spared the embarrassment.

Okay, I'm gonna first point out here that one of the main reasons you don't like David (and deny this all you want, you have stated this on a number of occasions), is because you think he looks smug. Now I'm no expert, but when did looks come into judging a players ability?
Ngog is one of the few players this season that can hold their head up high and say "You know what, I did alright this season". For a 20 year old deputising for arguably the best striker in the world, you really can't ask for any more than Ngog has given us. He's a great up and comer, and with more games and more experience, he will continue to go from strength to strength. We've got a real talent in Ngog.

see that ironic as i believe Ngog has a 10th of the talent he actually believes he does(hence why he always looks smug), i couldnt give a shiraz how he looks he doesnt work hard when hes upfront and that for me is criminal, he gives the ball away more than kuyt. Kuyt may have had a bad game as may insua but there were 9 other woeful players out there the other night. A question you should be asking was who was marking Rodallega when the ball came into the box instead of seeing someone you don't like make a mistake and then going on and on about it all week. The only thing Ngog should be saying to himself at the end of the season is "Man im shite, i have to work harder". Dirk Kuyt may be technically one of the worst professionals in the world but he has heart and he works for the shirt, he has a habbit of scoring in big games and rescueing us there is a reason hes third in line for the liverpool captaincy and frankly he is a role model for the younger players, i cant think of anyone in the club who i would rather learn from (asside from gerrard and torres ofcourse). Footballs are human penalties can be missed we both know this(and have seen me do it on a number of occasions). You said this topic is not about David N'gog well its not about Dirk Kuyt either yet you felt the need to bring him up.
Footballs a team sport callum and it took a team playing at its worst to lose to wigan, it was not a single players fault, or even 2 players fault it was the entire teams fault.

Nice try, but this thread was about Liverpool losing to Wigan and in particular Gerrard and Torres being poor. Bringing up David N'gog, who didn't even take part against Wigan was completely off topic. My post was entirely relevant to the discussion and in fact partially in agreeance with your point that its no two players fault. I stated that Gerrard and Torres were poor, but Kuyt and Insua were a joke. Thats four players I mentioned, not one, not two, but four. To please you, 5 of the other players on the pitch were quite poor also (with the exceptions being Reina and Kyrgiakos), but they were nowhere near as bad as Kuyt and Insua. Two of the worst performances of the season by any players. If you honestly think you can have any argument with my first post on this topic, you're kidding yourself. No matter how much you like Kuyt, that performance was impossible to defend.
http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread ... 014&page=2
http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=159794

Seems I'm not alone in that opinion either?

Also, Ngog has been deployed as a lone striker in all but two of his appearances if my memory serves me correctly. Now I don't know if you've noticed or not, but the service he has received in most, NOT ALL, of these has been laughable. Long balls pinged up to him all day long and hoping he can do some kind of magic with it. He's not Torres, everybody knows that.
You also state Ngog doesn't work hard enough...Thats about as truthful as your old argument of 'hes got absolutely no pace'. In comparison to Kuyt, yeah sure his work rates nowhere near it. But who's is? He works more than hard enough for a lone striker, and for a lad aged only 20, he has a lot to be proud of. If you want to keep having digs at Ngog, I don't care. I like him, yeah, but I'm not gonna bother sitting here defending him all day against your silly arguments.

"Gives the ball away more than Kuyt"....Kuyt gave the ball away more against Wigan than any other player has all season

[The Joker]

Woke up yesterday morning to turn on the telly and see rodalega smash home the winner. It used to be a shock when Liverpool lose, I'm used to it now.

All hail agent rafa!

[Lucas is god]

Thats like your fifth account on here now.
Kuyt made one major mistake (which lead to the goal that won Wigan the game), true. But you're neglecting to mention that he made about 150 other mistakes in that match, but I see why you chose not to mention that...its what we've come to expect from a limited player such as Kuyt.

As for him 'single handedly' taking down Spurs, he was part of an 11 man squad that day right? He scored twice, the first of which was a nice goal. The second was a penalty. Now you can go on and on about how it takes a lot of composure to score penalties in front of that many people and ra ra ra, but footballers are being paid top dollar and should be scoring penalties 90% of the time.

Yes, I'm on his back when he makes a mistake. You know why? Because I think he's useless. Go on Liverpoolfc.tv and check out the forums on there regarding his performance against Wigan. Even those who openly admit to liking Kuyt were in complete shock at how somebody could be so poor.

Yes, Kyrgiakos got sent off in the game against Everton. Big deal, we got the three points. Kyrgiakos has been great in the games he's played for us this season. He's surpassed a lot of peoples expectations and theres no way in hell you can argue he's a great 4th choice centre back. Hell, aside from Johnson when he was fit at the beginning of the season, Kyrgiakos has probably been our best defender this season.

Also, Agger did gift Wigan a goal last season, but immediately responded with a great run forward resulting in our equaliser. He didn't give the ball away with every touch there after, such as Kuyt did yesterday morning. But just for the record, this topic isn't about Agger or anyone else. You can have a dig at him all you want, it doesn't bother me. He's my favourite player, but hes human. All defenders are, and all of them will make mistakes. That Zaki one seems to be the only one I can remember where he clearly handed the team a goal...whereas I can think of many instances in which Skrtel/Carra/Insua have.

Please, enlighten me as to where I said Insua isn't a good player? I said he was woeful against Wigan. If you even try to argue with that then you're clearly brain damaged. N'Zogbia took the piss out of him every time down that wing, and almost scored a second for Wigan due to Insuas poor positioning and lack of concentration. He chased him back well to begin with, but let N'Zogbia in behind him because he tuned out and I'm sure you remember what happened next...Reina pulled off a great save and Insua was spared the embarrassment.

Okay, I'm gonna first point out here that one of the main reasons you don't like David (and deny this all you want, you have stated this on a number of occasions), is because you think he looks smug. Now I'm no expert, but when did looks come into judging a players ability?
Ngog is one of the few players this season that can hold their head up high and say "You know what, I did alright this season". For a 20 year old deputising for arguably the best striker in the world, you really can't ask for any more than Ngog has given us. He's a great up and comer, and with more games and more experience, he will continue to go from strength to strength. We've got a real talent in Ngog.

see that ironic as i believe Ngog has a 10th of the talent he actually believes he does(hence why he always looks smug), i couldnt give a shiraz how he looks he doesnt work hard when hes upfront and that for me is criminal, he gives the ball away more than kuyt. Kuyt may have had a bad game as may insua but there were 9 other woeful players out there the other night. A question you should be asking was who was marking Rodallega when the ball came into the box instead of seeing someone you don't like make a mistake and then going on and on about it all week. The only thing Ngog should be saying to himself at the end of the season is "Man im shite, i have to work harder". Dirk Kuyt may be technically one of the worst professionals in the world but he has heart and he works for the shirt, he has a habbit of scoring in big games and rescueing us there is a reason hes third in line for the liverpool captaincy and frankly he is a role model for the younger players, i cant think of anyone in the club who i would rather learn from (asside from gerrard and torres ofcourse). Footballs are human penalties can be missed we both know this(and have seen me do it on a number of occasions). You said this topic is not about David N'gog well its not about Dirk Kuyt either yet you felt the need to bring him up.
Footballs a team sport callum and it took a team playing at its worst to lose to wigan, it was not a single players fault, or even 2 players fault it was the entire teams fault.

Nice try, but this thread was about Liverpool losing to Wigan and in particular Gerrard and Torres being poor. Bringing up David N'gog, who didn't even take part against Wigan was completely off topic. My post was entirely relevant to the discussion and in fact partially in agreeance with your point that its no two players fault. I stated that Gerrard and Torres were poor, but Kuyt and Insua were a joke. Thats four players I mentioned, not one, not two, but four. To please you, 5 of the other players on the pitch were quite poor also (with the exceptions being Reina and Kyrgiakos), but they were nowhere near as bad as Kuyt and Insua. Two of the worst performances of the season by any players. If you honestly think you can have any argument with my first post on this topic, you're kidding yourself. No matter how much you like Kuyt, that performance was impossible to defend.
http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread ... 014&page=2
http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=159794

Seems I'm not alone in that opinion either?

Also, Ngog has been deployed as a lone striker in all but two of his appearances if my memory serves me correctly. Now I don't know if you've noticed or not, but the service he has received in most, NOT ALL, of these has been laughable. Long balls pinged up to him all day long and hoping he can do some kind of magic with it. He's not Torres, everybody knows that.
You also state Ngog doesn't work hard enough...Thats about as truthful as your old argument of 'hes got absolutely no pace'. In comparison to Kuyt, yeah sure his work rates nowhere near it. But who's is? He works more than hard enough for a lone striker, and for a lad aged only 20, he has a lot to be proud of. If you want to keep having digs at Ngog, I don't care. I like him, yeah, but I'm not gonna bother sitting here defending him all day against your silly arguments.

"Gives the ball away more than Kuyt"....Kuyt gave the ball away more against Wigan than any other player has all season

Your the most narrow minded supporter of all time, your blinded by what you believe a footballer should do and thus you judge players too early, unless you believe a players got a bag of tricks you do not rate them. Dirk Kuyt may not be the best player in the squad but he works the hardest. I believe you will note that the title of this thread is "Unimpressive Gerrard and Torres" and thus one must believe that the subjects covered would be torres and gerrard being ordinary(very harsh towards torres who simply has a sore back from carrying liverpool this season). If you want to bag Kuyt make your own thread and do it there dont randomly go off at him, twice this year i have seen n'gog sky it from 5 yards out, i have seen him dive blatantly and bring the clubs name into controversey. I would prefer not to see him play. I didnt like kyrgiakos at the start of the season because i thought he was a waste of money, despite his error in the merseyside derby i still think he was a good replacement for Sami. You can say what you want about Dirk but 50 goals in 177 games considering hes played rm/am/various positions throughout his career is a fair effort for a man who only cost 10 mill, Ngog is on the other hand has scored 9 in 41 playing primarily upfront. Dirk Kuyt is the highest scoring RM this year, N'gog has kicked 4 goals in the league playing upfront.

As for those forums you put up im not going to bother reading them, a wrong man can always find someone to agree with him afterall and tbh it would not be too dificult to find people to disagree with you. football is all perception, we are interpreting a game based on our own thoughts on how the game should be played. Dirk Kuyt might not be good to watch but he is effective. Arsenal for instance are great to watch but when have they actually achieved anything in the past 5 years?

[BTAC]

[
see that ironic as i believe Ngog has a 10th of the talent he actually believes he does(hence why he always looks smug), i couldnt give a shiraz how he looks he doesnt work hard when hes upfront and that for me is criminal, he gives the ball away more than kuyt. Kuyt may have had a bad game as may insua but there were 9 other woeful players out there the other night. A question you should be asking was who was marking Rodallega when the ball came into the box instead of seeing someone you don't like make a mistake and then going on and on about it all week. The only thing Ngog should be saying to himself at the end of the season is "Man im shite, i have to work harder". Dirk Kuyt may be technically one of the worst professionals in the world but he has heart and he works for the shirt, he has a habbit of scoring in big games and rescueing us there is a reason hes third in line for the liverpool captaincy and frankly he is a role model for the younger players, i cant think of anyone in the club who i would rather learn from (asside from gerrard and torres ofcourse). Footballs are human penalties can be missed we both know this(and have seen me do it on a number of occasions). You said this topic is not about David N'gog well its not about Dirk Kuyt either yet you felt the need to bring him up.
Footballs a team sport callum and it took a team playing at its worst to lose to wigan, it was not a single players fault, or even 2 players fault it was the entire teams fault.

Nice try, but this thread was about Liverpool losing to Wigan and in particular Gerrard and Torres being poor. Bringing up David N'gog, who didn't even take part against Wigan was completely off topic. My post was entirely relevant to the discussion and in fact partially in agreeance with your point that its no two players fault. I stated that Gerrard and Torres were poor, but Kuyt and Insua were a joke. Thats four players I mentioned, not one, not two, but four. To please you, 5 of the other players on the pitch were quite poor also (with the exceptions being Reina and Kyrgiakos), but they were nowhere near as bad as Kuyt and Insua. Two of the worst performances of the season by any players. If you honestly think you can have any argument with my first post on this topic, you're kidding yourself. No matter how much you like Kuyt, that performance was impossible to defend.
http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread ... 014&page=2
http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=159794

Seems I'm not alone in that opinion either?

Also, Ngog has been deployed as a lone striker in all but two of his appearances if my memory serves me correctly. Now I don't know if you've noticed or not, but the service he has received in most, NOT ALL, of these has been laughable. Long balls pinged up to him all day long and hoping he can do some kind of magic with it. He's not Torres, everybody knows that.
You also state Ngog doesn't work hard enough...Thats about as truthful as your old argument of 'hes got absolutely no pace'. In comparison to Kuyt, yeah sure his work rates nowhere near it. But who's is? He works more than hard enough for a lone striker, and for a lad aged only 20, he has a lot to be proud of. If you want to keep having digs at Ngog, I don't care. I like him, yeah, but I'm not gonna bother sitting here defending him all day against your silly arguments.

"Gives the ball away more than Kuyt"....Kuyt gave the ball away more against Wigan than any other player has all season

Your the most narrow minded supporter of all time, your blinded by what you believe a footballer should do and thus you judge players too early, unless you believe a players got a bag of tricks you do not rate them. Dirk Kuyt may not be the best player in the squad but he works the hardest. I believe you will note that the title of this thread is "Unimpressive Gerrard and Torres" and thus one must believe that the subjects covered would be torres and gerrard being ordinary(very harsh towards torres who simply has a sore back from carrying liverpool this season). If you want to bag Kuyt make your own thread and do it there dont randomly go off at him, twice this year i have seen n'gog sky it from 5 yards out, i have seen him dive blatantly and bring the clubs name into controversey. I would prefer not to see him play. I didnt like kyrgiakos at the start of the season because i thought he was a waste of money, despite his error in the merseyside derby i still think he was a good replacement for Sami. You can say what you want about Dirk but 50 goals in 177 games considering hes played rm/am/various positions throughout his career is a fair effort for a man who only cost 10 mill, Ngog is on the other hand has scored 9 in 41 playing primarily upfront. Dirk Kuyt is the highest scoring RM this year, N'gog has kicked 4 goals in the league playing upfront.

As for those forums you put up im not going to bother reading them, a wrong man can always find someone to agree with him afterall and tbh it would not be too dificult to find people to disagree with you. football is all perception, we are interpreting a game based on our own thoughts on how the game should be played. Dirk Kuyt might not be good to watch but he is effective. Arsenal for instance are great to watch but when have they actually achieved anything in the past 5 years?

Did you even read my post? I pointed out how my post was relevant to the topic. Kuyt and Insua were used comparatively to Gerrard and Torres.

You also don't seem to understand that Ngog is 20 years old. Kuyt is something like 28/29 years old. Huge difference. Kuyt also plays almost every minute of every game, every season. You play enough football and you're going to do a few good things. However, his negative impact on the build up to our attacks, his lack of skills and creativity on the counter and his general poor play outweights the positives of his play. Yes he'll score the odd goal that will be important, but with somebody more creative, better link up play, and better service into the strikers, we can expect more goals. You can spin it all the ways you wish to, these stats you keep pulling out don't tell the story. For instance you don't see how many great goal scoring chances he's missed, how many times he's given away possession, how many times our counter attacks have broken down due to him, how many times he's given an 5/10 performance. Thats another thing, there have been many occasions in which Kuyt has played extremely poorly throughout the game and yet gets praised for his performance because of a tap in late on in the game. For me, the negatives outweigh the positives as far as Kuyt is concerned. Its not all about statistics.

I have no idea where you've pulled that from. One of my favourite players is Peter Crouch, now he hardly boasts a 'bag of tricks' now does he? My favourite player is Daniel Agger and whilst he likes to get forward, tricks are not simply not his game. Other such players I rate very highly that aren't known for their tricks include Jamie Carragher, Sami Hyypia, Carlos Tevez, Javier Mascherano, Alvaro Arbeloa, Xabi Alonso, Yaya Toure, Ricardo Carvalho and Michael Essien. I could keep going, but I think I've made my point. They're hardly going to be up there for trickiest players in the world are they? As a matter of fact most of them are defenders..but I totally get where you're coming from...

Please read them...I beg you. Some of the comments are hilarious.

[Lucas is god]

Several times i have acknowledge kuyt makes mistakes, hes a human being.
n'gog is out of promising young player range, by this age Torres was captain of atletico and was singled handedly carrying them. well as a defender i would expect you to like defencive players. dirk has bad games, bad runs of form and it shows really badly with him because he continues to put himself out there, he pushes himself for liverpool and thats more important to me then a player who couldnt care less.

lol ignore statistics? im sorry but since manchester united supporters wont ignore statistics if they go past us i cant very well ignore them in this case, the fact is dirk kuyt is our 3rd best goal scorer and is our first choice right midfielder either live with it or pick a new club to support. I hope N'gog turns out to be a class player and wins many trophies with liverpool. this can only be done through hardwork and thats something which n'gog could stand to learn from kuyt.

[BTAC]

n'gog is out of promising young player range, by this age Torres was captain of atletico and was singled handedly carrying them.

......................

As for Insua the guy is what 21? 22?

Ngog is younger than Insua..So Insua must be out of the 'promising young player range' as well huh? If you can honestly get on here and defend Insua after that performance, but criticise Ngog for his performances this season, you don't know football.

[Loppermann]

n'gog is out of promising young player range, by this age Torres was captain of atletico and was singled handedly carrying them.

......................

As for Insua the guy is what 21? 22?

Ngog is younger than Insua..So Insua must be out of the 'promising young player range' as well huh? If you can honestly get on here and defend Insua after that performance, but criticise Ngog for his performances this season, you don't know football.

lol, anyone else remember that game You Don't Know Jack?
good stuff

[Lucas is god]

Insua has to start showing something more that is true but atleast he works his ass off unlike ngog, i have a lot of time for younger players but the second they get complacent(like ngog) i dont consider them a potential talent, i consider them a wasted talent. Insua has had a bad season but he has continued to put himself out there and working hard. If n'gog misses a chance in a game his head is down and he barely comes for the ball. you cant just say someone knows nothing about football because they disagree with you, yet again you prove how narrow minded you are that you let your own perceptions of football get in the way of appreciating other peoples opinions.

[BTAC]

Insua has to start showing something more that is true but atleast he works his ass off unlike ngog, i have a lot of time for younger players but the second they get complacent(like ngog) i dont consider them a potential talent, i consider them a wasted talent. Insua has had a bad season but he has continued to put himself out there and working hard. If n'gog misses a chance in a game his head is down and he barely comes for the ball. you cant just say someone knows nothing about football because they disagree with you, yet again you prove how narrow minded you are that you let your own perceptions of football get in the way of appreciating other peoples opinions.

It's nothing to do with my own perceptions on the matter. The FACT is that Insua was horrendous against Wigan and when I pointed that out you jumped on here, defended him and had a dig at Ngog who didn't even take part. You don't know anything about Ngog. Tell me oh wise one, what inside information do you have that proves Ngog is complacent?

That occured in one game. It happens once and then all of a sudden its a part of his play? Is that right? I think you're the one who is narrow minded mate.

Insuas work rate is good, yes. But if a defender is beaten nine out of ten times in a game, then work rate is useless. He may get better and become the player he was touted to be, but right now he is not good enough to be starting week in, week out.

[Lucas is god]

Insua has to start showing something more that is true but atleast he works his ass off unlike ngog, i have a lot of time for younger players but the second they get complacent(like ngog) i dont consider them a potential talent, i consider them a wasted talent. Insua has had a bad season but he has continued to put himself out there and working hard. If n'gog misses a chance in a game his head is down and he barely comes for the ball. you cant just say someone knows nothing about football because they disagree with you, yet again you prove how narrow minded you are that you let your own perceptions of football get in the way of appreciating other peoples opinions.

It's nothing to do with my own perceptions on the matter. The FACT is that Insua was horrendous against Wigan and when I pointed that out you jumped on here, defended him and had a dig at Ngog who didn't even take part. You don't know anything about Ngog. Tell me oh wise one, what inside information do you have that proves Ngog is complacent?

That occured in one game. It happens once and then all of a sudden its a part of his play? Is that right? I think you're the one who is narrow minded mate.

Insuas work rate is good, yes. But if a defender is beaten nine out of ten times in a game, then work rate is useless. He may get better and become the player he was touted to be, but right now he is not good enough to be starting week in, week out.

i think you will find aurelio would be starting ahead of insua if he was fully fit. As for that happening once ngog has done this on a number of occasions, notice how when i mentioned his dive i didnt say he has done it on multiple occasions. My first thoughts on kyrgiakos(after his first game) was omg....we are in trouble but after a few games i was impressed with him. I accept players can change and i hope ngog does but just because he plays for liverpool i dont have to like him, respect the fact that as he plays for liverpool he is a freak but i dont have to respect his style of play, face it we wont agree on this as we both dislike certain players and in our eyes they can do little wrong, i think ngog is a blundering talentless idiot whos not fit to shine torres's boots and you think kuyt is a twat who has the worst first touch in the world and should not be in liverpools squad, we both have to accept we arent the manager and therefore our opinions are irrelevant.

[BTAC]

Insua has to start showing something more that is true but atleast he works his ass off unlike ngog, i have a lot of time for younger players but the second they get complacent(like ngog) i dont consider them a potential talent, i consider them a wasted talent. Insua has had a bad season but he has continued to put himself out there and working hard. If n'gog misses a chance in a game his head is down and he barely comes for the ball. you cant just say someone knows nothing about football because they disagree with you, yet again you prove how narrow minded you are that you let your own perceptions of football get in the way of appreciating other peoples opinions.

It's nothing to do with my own perceptions on the matter. The FACT is that Insua was horrendous against Wigan and when I pointed that out you jumped on here, defended him and had a dig at Ngog who didn't even take part. You don't know anything about Ngog. Tell me oh wise one, what inside information do you have that proves Ngog is complacent?

That occured in one game. It happens once and then all of a sudden its a part of his play? Is that right? I think you're the one who is narrow minded mate.

Insuas work rate is good, yes. But if a defender is beaten nine out of ten times in a game, then work rate is useless. He may get better and become the player he was touted to be, but right now he is not good enough to be starting week in, week out.

i think you will find aurelio would be starting ahead of insua if he was fully fit. As for that happening once ngog has done this on a number of occasions, notice how when i mentioned his dive i didnt say he has done it on multiple occasions. My first thoughts on kyrgiakos(after his first game) was omg....we are in trouble but after a few games i was impressed with him. I accept players can change and i hope ngog does but just because he plays for liverpool i dont have to like him, respect the fact that as he plays for liverpool he is a freak but i dont have to respect his style of play, face it we wont agree on this as we both dislike certain players and in our eyes they can do little wrong, i think ngog is a blundering talentless idiot whos not fit to shine torres's boots and you think kuyt is a twat who has the worst first touch in the world and should not be in liverpools squad, we both have to accept we arent the manager and therefore our opinions are irrelevant.

Aurelio was fully fit for a long time until just recently, but Insua started ahead of him still. Rafa obviously sees something in him, but I'm not quite sure what. Hopefully he turns out to be quality, as Rafa certainly believes he will. Give me some examples of these 'number of occasions' please. I remember one and only one.

You also didn't give me a reason as to why N'gog is complacent? Is it because he looks 'smug'?