Provisional League Structure 2010

[ontheblackburner]

When Gretna left the English FA to join the Scottish FA they joined the league in the bottom division.

When Gretna went broke, the team that replaced them joined the leage in the bottom division.

More worringly is the fact that Port Pirie Savoy have a 'home' and 'away' squad. They are recruiting players in Adelaide who dont have to train and are only required to play fortnightly at away games and are being 'compensated' for their efforts.

Whats wrong with that?

Technically legal, morally unacceptable.

But morals dont exists in football anymore. I should probably have qualified my statement by saying that I personally find the 'home' and 'away' squad system a worry.

[Jay Walking]

Whats to stop any other club doing this though? How is it morally wrong to have 24 players able to play first team and split them up to only play half a season each? I think thats what your saying isn't it?

[ontheblackburner]

Whats to stop any other club doing this though? How is it morally wrong to have 24 players able to play first team and split them up to only play half a season each? I think thats what your saying isn't it?

Correct. They have a team to play the Pirie games and a team to play the Adelaide games. The guys playing the 'Adelaide' games aren't required to train with their team mates at any stage, just rock up every away Sunday and play.

I have no objections to a team having 24 players and rotating their squad. That's probably the most healthy situation for any team.

I would argue though that those 24 players should be made to train together and get selected on their merits, rather than their residential address.

[Jay Walking]

Whats to stop any other club doing this though? How is it morally wrong to have 24 players able to play first team and split them up to only play half a season each? I think thats what your saying isn't it?

Correct. They have a team to play the Pirie games and a team to play the Adelaide games. The guys playing the 'Adelaide' games aren't required to train with their team mates at any stage, just rock up every away Sunday and play.

I have no objections to a team having 24 players and rotating their squad. That's probably the most healthy situation for any team.

I would argue though that those 24 players should be made to train together and get selected on their merits, rather than their residential address.

Why, if Florina signed a Super League coach who was going to train with his Super League team and not with Florina but just play on the Sunday, is that wrong? Besides, I wouldn't be happy playing every second week anyway so I can't see it actually happening.

[DOC]

When Gretna left the English FA to join the Scottish FA they joined the league in the bottom division.

When Gretna went broke, the team that replaced them joined the leage in the bottom division.

More worringly is the fact that Port Pirie Savoy have a 'home' and 'away' squad. They are recruiting players in Adelaide who dont have to train and are only required to play fortnightly at away games and are being 'compensated' for their efforts.

Whats wrong with that?

thats all fine but maybe they should be shipped up to play home games as well ala northern deamons

[ontheblackburner]

Whats to stop any other club doing this though? How is it morally wrong to have 24 players able to play first team and split them up to only play half a season each? I think thats what your saying isn't it?

Correct. They have a team to play the Pirie games and a team to play the Adelaide games. The guys playing the 'Adelaide' games aren't required to train with their team mates at any stage, just rock up every away Sunday and play.

I have no objections to a team having 24 players and rotating their squad. That's probably the most healthy situation for any team.

I would argue though that those 24 players should be made to train together and get selected on their merits, rather than their residential address.

Why, if Florina signed a Super League coach who was going to train with his Super League team and not with Florina but just play on the Sunday, is that wrong? Besides, I wouldn't be happy playing every second week anyway so I can't see it actually happening.

Not quite grasping the concept here - are you saying if an amatuer club signed a super league coach as a player?

if so, in my personal opinion, you're comparing apples an oranges. Pirie are signing players who have no coaching affiliation with FFSA clubs and are telling them that they aren't required to train with the other players in Pirie.

What if Farm was chasing a player for it's first team and are pipped to their signature by a club who offers them 'compensation', a guaranteed game every fortnight without training? (and im not suggesting Florina was in this situation, i work with lad who plays for a Saturday div team and it happened to them).

Again i mention that though i understand this is techincally legal, i believe its morally wrong. Not that morals or ethics play a huge part in football anymore.

[Brown paper bag crew]

We all work hard for our respective clubs. Weather your club is one year old or 50 years old, it takes a lot of people a lot of work to run a club. I don't think that anything spoken re Port Pirie has anyone saying that Brahma shouldn't be in there. So whilst I understand where you are coming from Brown Paper Bag, I think yours is a seperate issue.B ramha are a great club which lots of hard working people but I don't think that means you should get the spare spot by default.

Whilst it wasn't great PR by the league, I do think Pirie take that vacant Div 2 spot. Its an unpopular but correct decision. The more social clubs in Div 4 & 5 wouldn't drive to Pirie to start with, something that the league needs to consider as Pirie may get relegated.

I would ask all the Brahma Lodge "Celtic supporters" that most of you want Celtic and Rangers to join the English Premier League, should they have to start in the Non League though to earn the right to eventually get to the Premier League. I'm guessing most of you think they should join the EPL straight away. Sure they are different standards (EPL v SAASL) but the principal is the same.

If USC Lion had not folded/mergered as such, it would of been interesting to see where Port Pirie would of played

Jay, good comments. I made specific mention to the fact we at Brahma did not expect promotion. There is no issue with us missing out. I was merely pointing out there is more than just Pirie or div 2 clubs involved. The issue is the way their seems to be one set of rules for some and a different set for others. Its a sh!t advertisement for the governing body of our league. The argument that Pirie deserve preferential treatement is a load of bollox. They deserve absolutely nothing from us over and above any other club in the SAASL.

re Celtic and Rangers in the EPL. You can bet they wont get included in any division without the approval of the league clubs, or at the very least, some consultation.

[tibbaw]

My respect is shown by suggesting they shouldn't be in the lower divisions where lopsided results would make the game less fun for all involved. I guarantee you former federation players will play, they're not going to lose their entire squad, that's a ridiculous generalistic statement to suggest otherwise. All hard working clubs that are still playing in lower divisions are still there for one reason, they are not very good. If you want to play div 1, then be a better player and if you already are, then play for a better club.

Once again your getting ahead of yourself. You have absolutely no idea how lopsided the results would. Your team was a pi$$ poor excuse in the state league. Dont try and belittle teams in the lower divisions, many just like yours should have been, have started at the bottom and are working their way up the standard way, through winning and promotion, not by having mates in high places.

My 'generalistic statement' about there being no gaurantee that all your federation players stay is just as generalistic as you saying they will. So dont try play that card. This is the amatuer league buddy, if your players are half as good as they think they are they wouldnt be wasting their time coming down to adelaide every second week to play in div 2 and get lumps kicked out of them, they will try their luck at another fed club. Amatuer contracts are just that, amatuer, they can pretty much do what they like during the year.

I am already a better player, actually im flippen awesome. Of course i have no proof to give you of this, but hey, you seem to be able to class your assumptions as fact, so i shall too. Oh and my club sh!ts on yours.

Lol and who is it that you think I play for?

[Ginger Bread Man]

if ur a div 1 team....Ur a div 1 team doesnt matter what day you play on!! why place a div 1 team in div 4!!! it would be like placing metro stars into the state league!

You're only a division one team in one competition. If you transfer to a different competition you're a new team in that competition.
Your metro analagy is not the same thing.

its ameature league, div 1 sat or div1 sunday!!! same thing!! pirie were state league last year now they are coming into ameature league how can that not be the same analagy as say bringin any fed team into the ameature league whether it be metro's or not??? think about it!

End of the day its only the div 3 and lower clubs whinging about pirie getting placed in a higher div than them with out having to do any work!!!

[Brown paper bag crew]

We all work hard for our respective clubs. Weather your club is one year old or 50 years old, it takes a lot of people a lot of work to run a club. I don't think that anything spoken re Port Pirie has anyone saying that Brahma shouldn't be in there. So whilst I understand where you are coming from Brown Paper Bag, I think yours is a seperate issue.B ramha are a great club which lots of hard working people but I don't think that means you should get the spare spot by default.

Sorry Jay, just noticed that part. Previous protocol indicates we should have got the spare spot by default. However as explained, the SAASL have a set of rules with disclaimers scattered here there and everywhere stating they pick and choose what they want to do when they want to do it. It would be nice to know as members of the SAASL what we can expect, a bit of transperancy in your rules, rather than having to wait until the honchos have finished being wined and dined at our expense and do a behind closed doors agreement.

[Jay Walking]

We all work hard for our respective clubs. Weather your club is one year old or 50 years old, it takes a lot of people a lot of work to run a club. I don't think that anything spoken re Port Pirie has anyone saying that Brahma shouldn't be in there. So whilst I understand where you are coming from Brown Paper Bag, I think yours is a seperate issue.B ramha are a great club which lots of hard working people but I don't think that means you should get the spare spot by default.

Whilst it wasn't great PR by the league, I do think Pirie take that vacant Div 2 spot. Its an unpopular but correct decision. The more social clubs in Div 4 & 5 wouldn't drive to Pirie to start with, something that the league needs to consider as Pirie may get relegated.

I would ask all the Brahma Lodge "Celtic supporters" that most of you want Celtic and Rangers to join the English Premier League, should they have to start in the Non League though to earn the right to eventually get to the Premier League. I'm guessing most of you think they should join the EPL straight away. Sure they are different standards (EPL v SAASL) but the principal is the same.

If USC Lion had not folded/mergered as such, it would of been interesting to see where Port Pirie would of played

Jay, good comments. I made specific mention to the fact we at Brahma did not expect promotion. There is no issue with us missing out. I was merely pointing out there is more than just Pirie or div 2 clubs involved. The issue is the way their seems to be one set of rules for some and a different set for others. Its a cabernet advertisement for the governing body of our league. The argument that Pirie deserve preferential treatement is a load of bollox. They deserve absolutely nothing from us over and above any other club in the SAASL.

re Celtic and Rangers in the EPL. You can bet they wont get included in any division without the approval of the league clubs, or at the very least, some consultation.

Fair point made at the end there

[DOC]

We all work hard for our respective clubs. Weather your club is one year old or 50 years old, it takes a lot of people a lot of work to run a club. I don't think that anything spoken re Port Pirie has anyone saying that Brahma shouldn't be in there. So whilst I understand where you are coming from Brown Paper Bag, I think yours is a seperate issue.B ramha are a great club which lots of hard working people but I don't think that means you should get the spare spot by default.

Whilst it wasn't great PR by the league, I do think Pirie take that vacant Div 2 spot. Its an unpopular but correct decision. The more social clubs in Div 4 & 5 wouldn't drive to Pirie to start with, something that the league needs to consider as Pirie may get relegated.

I would ask all the Brahma Lodge "Celtic supporters" that most of you want Celtic and Rangers to join the English Premier League, should they have to start in the Non League though to earn the right to eventually get to the Premier League. I'm guessing most of you think they should join the EPL straight away. Sure they are different standards (EPL v SAASL) but the principal is the same.

If USC Lion had not folded/mergered as such, it would of been interesting to see where Port Pirie would of played

Jay, good comments. I made specific mention to the fact we at Brahma did not expect promotion. There is no issue with us missing out. I was merely pointing out there is more than just Pirie or div 2 clubs involved. The issue is the way their seems to be one set of rules for some and a different set for others. Its a cabernet advertisement for the governing body of our league. The argument that Pirie deserve preferential treatement is a load of bollox. They deserve absolutely nothing from us over and above any other club in the SAASL.

re Celtic and Rangers in the EPL. You can bet they wont get included in any division without the approval of the league clubs, or at the very least, some consultation.

Fair point made at the end there

the way perie and lion did it makes sense as they marged and changed names, then usc lion was reformed as a new club in div 3/4 on sat div, meaning it was all fine for this to happen, basically what happened was a name and pitch change

and it is rumoured if rangers and celtic enter english league system they will be folded into the championship to earn there spot in epl

[Brown paper bag crew]

tibbaw69, I assumed from "I guarantee you former federation players will play" and your certainty that Pirie will smash everyone in the lower divisons you were from that club. Id be interested to know how you can guarantee who will be playing there for sure if you are not involved with them. Either way I stand by my 'my club sh!ts on yours' comment.

Ginger Bread Man, i have no idea what the fk you are on about.

[Knight7]

Whats to stop any other club doing this though? How is it morally wrong to have 24 players able to play first team and split them up to only play half a season each? I think thats what your saying isn't it?

Correct. They have a team to play the Pirie games and a team to play the Adelaide games. The guys playing the 'Adelaide' games aren't required to train with their team mates at any stage, just rock up every away Sunday and play.

I have no objections to a team having 24 players and rotating their squad. That's probably the most healthy situation for any team.

I would argue though that those 24 players should be made to train together and get selected on their merits, rather than their residential address.

If thats true I can't see them winning anything who would sign up to play every second week? Plus no training together etc?


I really don't rate the State League that highly anyway

[Aldo Serena]

If thats true I can't see them winning anything who would sign up to play every second week? Plus no training together etc?

Depends on how much you are getting paid I guess.

[ManCityMan]

I reckon there is a good chance that Pirie will drop heaps of points on the away games if their players don't train. If they only meet with eachother once a fortnight for a 30 minute warmup before the game - it doesn't matter how good they are, they will be vunerable. You can't get promoted if you only win your home games...

yesterday Cougars were in Div 2 but now they're back in Div 3.

Also have never seen 4 Adelaide Uni teams before.

We had 4 last year - 1,3,4,5.

Not sure how the league has promoted AU 2 ahead of cougars though - we finished a lot lower - cougars in 3rd.

[King Elijah]

When Gretna left the English FA to join the Scottish FA they joined the league in the bottom division.

When Gretna went broke, the team that replaced them joined the leage in the bottom division.

More worringly is the fact that Port Pirie Savoy have a 'home' and 'away' squad. They are recruiting players in Adelaide who dont have to train and are only required to play fortnightly at away games and are being 'compensated' for their efforts.

Quite a few of the Pirie players (I think 4 of them) train together with an amateur team and play for Pirie on weekends, as they did last season.

[The Lost Døst]

How about you and your merry band of supporters show some sympathy/respect to the fee paying membership clubs of the SAASL who each year fight their way through the league hoping for promotion to the next division.

The SAASL back scratchers, who have a policy of 'we take your money and make all the decisions without following any set guidelines or any consultation with our members' had 2 choices. As has happened in the past when this has happened promote an extra team from Div 3 Sundays and Div 4 Saturdays, or give a free pass to 2 new teams straight into Div 2 Sun and Div 3 Saturday at the expense of teams who spent the whole of last season busting their guts to take that spot only to fall 1 place short.

The SAASL made their choice, we've dealth with it, we didnt expect to be promoted from 3rd place so it was never in the equation, but dont come here telling us Pirie, a team who hasnt even been part of the SAASL for many years, currently had no afffiliation with the SAASL, cannot guarantee any former federation players will even play, and is located 3 fookin hours away from Adelaide CBD, nor Lion who did nothing last year to prove they were better than any div 4 saturday side, deserve preferential treatment over long serving hard working SAASL clubs.

Some cosistency in SAASL decisions would be nice, as all this does is again give the appearance of dodgy backdoor dealings. We pay our fees and have set rules and regulations to follow. So should they

We'll certainly be looking at Pirie results this year keenly. I'd expect nothing but promotion to div 1 for a club which is claimed to be far too superior for any division below Div 2.

Mon the Bra!

Well said.

[redfred]

should pirie be in sun div2
should munno para have been relegated

probably not. but to be fair to pirie they had been shafted by ffsa which now with no replacement for them seems even funnier . not piries fault. they will help the saasl become stronger as a club with over 50 years of service to the soccer community of sa they deserve some help and yes the saasl have probably bent over backwards to help them, kudos to them . i thought the transparency was there, pirie/lion merge, then lion decided to pull out of merger and relocate to saturday league.good luck to pirie looking forward to the trip

lucky raptors

[Die Yuppie Die]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[redfred]

without a union, wot the boss says, goes

[Die Yuppie Die]

Perhaps clubs should stand up and say this is not right.

[swannsong]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

And neither do several user names

[gooner4life]

I reckon there is a good chance that Pirie will drop heaps of points on the away games if their players don't train. If they only meet with eachother once a fortnight for a 30 minute warmup before the game - it doesn't matter how good they are, they will be vunerable. You can't get promoted if you only win your home games...

yesterday Cougars were in Div 2 but now they're back in Div 3.

Also have never seen 4 Adelaide Uni teams before.

We had 4 last year - 1,3,4,5.

Not sure how the league has promoted AU 2 ahead of cougars though - we finished a lot lower - cougars in 3rd.

As did your side in Div 4 and your side in Div 5!!

So three of your four teams have gained promotion from a non promotion spot??

And people are comlaining about Pirie, can anyone explain this?

[Kitchimo]

I reckon there is a good chance that Pirie will drop heaps of points on the away games if their players don't train. If they only meet with eachother once a fortnight for a 30 minute warmup before the game - it doesn't matter how good they are, they will be vunerable. You can't get promoted if you only win your home games...

yesterday Cougars were in Div 2 but now they're back in Div 3.

Also have never seen 4 Adelaide Uni teams before.

We had 4 last year - 1,3,4,5.

Not sure how the league has promoted AU 2 ahead of cougars though - we finished a lot lower - cougars in 3rd.

As did your side in Div 4 and your side in Div 5!!

So three of your four teams have gained promotion from a non promotion spot??

And people are comlaining about Pirie, can anyone explain this?

The SAASL rules state that no two 'First and Reserve' teams from the same club should be in the same division. So for example if Flinders (2) stayed up in Division 3 last year, because Flinders got relegated from Division 2 they woudl have automatically been relegated. It's to stop A v C, B v D, and accusations of collusion.

However, If I was Cougars and/or ACU Falcons I would be protesting the decision - they earnt the spot.

AU(4) should be in the C divisions as two seperate teams until AU (2) and AU (3) earn promotion. They both will probably be relegated this year (based on their form from last year) - then what are the SAASL going to do?

[ManCityMan]

The SAASL rules state that no two 'First and Reserve' teams from the same club should be in the same division. So for example if Flinders (2) stayed up in Division 3 last year, because Flinders got relegated from Division 2 they woudl have automatically been relegated. It's to stop A v C, B v D, and accusations of collusion.

However, If I was Cougars and/or ACU Falcons I would be protesting the decision - they earnt the spot.

AU(4) should be in the C divisions as two seperate teams until AU (2) and AU (3) earn promotion. They both will probably be relegated this year (based on their form from last year) - then what are the SAASL going to do?

Thats a hard one because I imagine the SAASL won't want to say - too bad you can't enter those teams, because they would want to fill out their leagues. The way it is done I think it is a bit silly, because the AU 2 and 3 team will be smashed every week (the 2's mid table div3, the 3's played in div 4 and now going up) and so you are essentially ruining div 2 and 3 for the sake of stopping AU vs AU matches in div 4 or 5.

Cougars didn't finish in the top 2 from memory, Burundi Eagles did, but they have disappeared. Either way Cougars deserve to be there more than Uni 2.

[gooner4life]

The SAASL rules state that no two 'First and Reserve' teams from the same club should be in the same division. So for example if Flinders (2) stayed up in Division 3 last year, because Flinders got relegated from Division 2 they woudl have automatically been relegated. It's to stop A v C, B v D, and accusations of collusion.

However, If I was Cougars and/or ACU Falcons I would be protesting the decision - they earnt the spot.

AU(4) should be in the C divisions as two seperate teams until AU (2) and AU (3) earn promotion. They both will probably be relegated this year (based on their form from last year) - then what are the SAASL going to do?

Thats a hard one because I imagine the SAASL won't want to say - too bad you can't enter those teams, because they would want to fill out their leagues. The way it is done I think it is a bit silly, because the AU 2 and 3 team will be smashed every week (the 2's mid table div3, the 3's played in div 4 and now going up) and so you are essentially ruining div 2 and 3 for the sake of stopping AU vs AU matches in div 4 or 5.

Cougars didn't finish in the top 2 from memory, Burundi Eagles did, but they have disappeared. Either way Cougars deserve to be there more than Uni 2.

Have we not established before that C team leagues don't get promotion and relegation, if so why did it matter if the Div4 side and the Div 5 side both finished in relegation, under the current system don't they just stay there anyway???

And this does still not explain why Adelaide Uni 2 gets a promotion over Cougars,Hahndorf,Mc Laren,Mt Barker?? There is no conflict in Div 3 as Adelaide uni wernt going down??

[Kitchimo]

The SAASL rules state that no two 'First and Reserve' teams from the same club should be in the same division. So for example if Flinders (2) stayed up in Division 3 last year, because Flinders got relegated from Division 2 they woudl have automatically been relegated. It's to stop A v C, B v D, and accusations of collusion.

However, If I was Cougars and/or ACU Falcons I would be protesting the decision - they earnt the spot.

AU(4) should be in the C divisions as two seperate teams until AU (2) and AU (3) earn promotion. They both will probably be relegated this year (based on their form from last year) - then what are the SAASL going to do?

Thats a hard one because I imagine the SAASL won't want to say - too bad you can't enter those teams, because they would want to fill out their leagues. The way it is done I think it is a bit silly, because the AU 2 and 3 team will be smashed every week (the 2's mid table div3, the 3's played in div 4 and now going up) and so you are essentially ruining div 2 and 3 for the sake of stopping AU vs AU matches in div 4 or 5.

Cougars didn't finish in the top 2 from memory, Burundi Eagles did, but they have disappeared. Either way Cougars deserve to be there more than Uni 2.

Have we not established before that C team leagues don't get promotion and relegation, if so why did it matter if the Div4 side and the Div 5 side both finished in relegation, under the current system don't they just stay there anyway???

And this does still not explain why Adelaide Uni 2 gets a promotion over Cougars,Hahndorf,Mc Laren,Mt Barker?? There is no conflict in Div 3 as Adelaide uni wernt going down??

Div 4 wasn't a C league. Div 5 and 6 were.

Adelaide Uni had 7 teams in the Saturday divisions last year. it appears this year they have, at a minimum, 8.

[gooner4life]

Div 4 wasn't a C league. Div 5 and 6 were.

So how could a team from Div 4 get relegated to Div 5(C team) league? And thus invoke the no two teams from the same club Policy?

The End result being that a side that finished in 7th in Div 3 now will play in Div 2

This makes no sense it doesn't matter how many teams they have, you at Iggies have loads and so do Flinders.

[Kitchimo]

Div 4 wasn't a C league. Div 5 and 6 were.

So how could a team from Div 4 get relegated to Div 5(C team) league? And thus invoke the no two teams from the same club Policy?

The End result being that a side that finished in 7th in Div 3 now will play in Div 2

This makes no sense it doesn't matter how many teams they have, you at Iggies have loads and so do Flinders.

Who said anything about anybody getting relegated from Div 4?

The point is, if one of (or both) AU (2) and AU (3) both get relegated THIS year, what will the SAASL do about having two AU "First and Reserve" teams in the same division? It's almost like they are guaranteed a spot.