Celtic fans

[Facts and Stats]

Please explain. It may only be a minority but this is not a good image for your club.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXWvXyKh ... r_embedded

[Knight7]

This has already been covered in the 'huns and riots' topic

It's a shame a very small minority chose to protest

I wish we were more like Liverpool they have an unblemished past

What's next a Millwall fan lecturing us

[Olympic (Vista) Bhoy]

This is why political point scoring should not be allowed at football grounds!

My sources tell me, that the majority of the noise was from outside the ground as one of the supporters' groups refused to be inside the ground for the silence. Doesn't make it right but illustrates why these silences do not work at football grounds.

[Olympic (Vista) Bhoy]

Some final thoughts on the annual Old Firm hijacking of the poppy, as crass and contrived and insensitive as it all is.

For those of you unfamiliar with this scene, the problem is rooted in the cultural and political narrative surrounding Celtic FC. Increasingly, Celtic boasts a multi-dominational fanbase, in which some estimate that up 25 per cent of the club's support is now Protestant, but this hasn't stopped a core of political hardliners from objecting to the wearing of the poppy, given what they see as its symbolic link to a previously corrupt and cruel British political regime.

I must say I disagree with this overdramatised and somewhat earnest view of the humble poppy and Remembrance, but there you are. Both Celtic and Rangers are laden with political "baggage" - not much of it always argued eloquently let alone learnedly by its proponents - and so last Sunday, rather than stand inside Falkirk Stadium where a minute's silence was taking place, some Celtic fans chose to ignore the moment by deliberately arriving late for kick-off.

Enter, then, an equally obsessed group of Rangers supporters, with their paranoia and conspiracy theories growing by the minute. For that group it is essential, paramount even, that Celtic's support observes the minute's silence. To these Rangers diehards the poor poppy has come to mean Britain, patriotism, and even, in a faintly crass way, Protestantism. In other words, this "Irish scum" that we find in our midst - the oft-repeated phrase for the Irish-Scots who favour Celtic - can go back to Ireland if they don't like "our" ways.

As stupid and unsophisticated as this view is, it has even been repeated in certain Scottish tabloid sports columns over the years. Evidently, the old journalistic rule of thumb still prevails: if you are employed in the toy department, keep away from religion and politics (and certainly theology).

From this contrived scene we now have ludicrous conspiracy theories sprouting. At Falkirk on Sunday there wasn't a cheep to be heard inside the stadium during the minute's silence from either the Celtic or Falkirk fans, but that is erroneously believed by irate Rangers fans to be down to the fact that Sky television, who were broadcasting the match, deliberately obliterated "a protest" by turning their microphones off. Thus, for the Rangers hard core, dastardly Sky can be added to a burgeoning list, including the BBC, STV, Radio Clyde as well as umpteen newspapers, who are due to be boycotted for their "pro-Celtic" bias.

Folks, this saga, this pantomime, I'm afraid is my meal ticket. I'm surrounded by this stuff daily: resentment and counter-resentment, a political, historical and theological ignorance among supposed zealots, and maybe more than anything, a kind of arch-Protestantism whereby the people who might intone "wur Proddy and wur proud of it" in their West of Scotland lingo would be singularly incapable of articulating to you a single tenet of the Protestant faith. Ignorance, however, has never been a barrier to conviction.

Among these festering groups of supporters, Rangers and Celtic are currently playing out a microcosm of a regrettable drama that is dragging on in Scotland. Bigotry, some maintain, is a thing of the past, but extremist websites and other forums clearly indicate that a kind of prevalent, grass roots bigotry is still simmering away.

Rangers, moreover, appear to have a kind of white underclass attached to the club, which feels threatened and undermined by the modern, changing, more multi-ethnic Scotland breaking out around them. Rangers are about to be clobbered by Uefa this week for further, delinquent behaviour by a section of their supporters, and some believe there is a causal link between this and their wider grievances.

What is beyond dispute is that the poppy and the issue of Remembrance has become the enjoyable plaything of these rival groups of Old Firm fans. A much bigger, wider section of Rangers and Celtic supporters despair of it all - and it is important to remember that those fans are the majority - but from the die-hards it is all quite a stunning exhibition of ignorance and bitterness.

[DOC]

great post... people forget that players from both clubs and from both sides of the religious divide served in the wars, and should be remembers and many celtic players died in ww1 and i'm sure so did some rangers players... i'm sure hawkesy will have another view of this however

[Facts and Stats]

This has already been covered in the 'huns and riots' topic

It's a shame a very small minority chose to protest

I wish we were more like Liverpool they have an unblemished past

What's next a Millwall fan lecturing us

I didn't know it was in the huns thread, the title made it look like a Rangers topic.

No team and it's fans are 100% clean, and I was not having a go at Celtic, it was a minority of fans, and I wanted to see if anyone was going to justify it....and also tee up Mr Hawkes for his reaction

[Knight7]

This has already been covered in the 'huns and riots' topic

It's a shame a very small minority chose to protest

I wish we were more like Liverpool they have an unblemished past

What's next a Millwall fan lecturing us

I didn't know it was in the huns thread, the title made it look like a Rangers topic.

No team and it's fans are 100% clean, and I was not having a go at Celtic, it was a minority of fans, and I wanted to see if anyone was going to justify it....and also tee up Mr Hawkes for his reaction

ok sorry, no justification from me, it appears most of the noise was from outside the gound but still not on!

and if you read the other post you would see that the footballnews resident bigot has already been all over this

[M160RA]

This may be the only time it happens, but I'm siding with him on this one. Why are you all dragging Millwall into it? Get your own lot in order before bringing a third party into it. Makes you look small time.

[Jay Walking]

I think its a disgrace, no matter who you support. The idea of the minutes silence is to remember those who have fallen in the war. If we can't have a minutes silence for that then the world is closer to the end than we really think.

People who support other teams who have a bad crowd history can comment, its not like they were there chanting during a time when people remember those that gave their lives for their countries.

[DOC]

I think its a disgrace, no matter who you support. The idea of the minutes silence is to remember those who have fallen in the war. If we can't have a minutes silence for that then the world is closer to the end than we really think.

People who support other teams who have a bad crowd history can comment, its not like they were there chanting during a time when people remember those that gave their lives for their countries.

its because they see the poppy as english, and therefore protestant... it was only a small group of extremist fans who chanted outside the ground then came in when the silence was over... very poor form as celtic want to remove ths type of behaviour... not good in a week where celtic got plaudits for their fans behaviour in hamburg...

[ozzie owl]

Please explain. It may only be a minority but this is not a good image for your club.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXWvXyKh ... r_embedded

In very poor taste.

[Olympic (Vista) Bhoy]

Please explain. It may only be a minority but this is not a good image for your club.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXWvXyKh ... r_embedded

In very poor taste.

Again, do all of you think it is appropriate for a minutes silence to be held at a football match which was not held on Remembrance Day? This was always going to happen as the "Poppy" has been hijacked by the BNP and the like as a sign of nationalism. Time to keep politics out of football and play the game. If people want to pay respects then let them pay it in their own time, not enforce it on others who tightly or wrongly are opposed to observing the silence.

we had a German International with a fecking Poppy on his jeresey. I'm sure that would have gone down well and illustrates how poitical correctness has gone mad.

[M160RA]

Please explain. It may only be a minority but this is not a good image for your club.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXWvXyKh ... r_embedded

In very poor taste.

Again, do all of you think it is appropriate for a minutes silence to be held at a football match which was not held on Remembrance Day? This was always going to happen as the "Poppy" has been hijacked by the BNP and the like as a sign of nationalism. Time to keep politics out of football and play the game. If people want to pay respects then let them pay it in their own time, not enforce it on others who tightly or wrongly are opposed to observing the silence.

we had a German International with a fecking Poppy on his jeresey. I'm sure that would have gone down well and illustrates how poitical correctness has gone mad.

Your ignorance and bigotry astound me!
You are Gerry Adams and I claim my £10.

[Olympic (Vista) Bhoy]

Your ignorance and bigotry astound me!
You are Gerry Adams and I claim my £10.[/quote]

Ignorant of what? And I'm a bigot because????? I'd wager I am more highly educated than you and by the sounds of it harbour much less bigotry but please humour me and give a right royal lecture. Tally ho!

[M160RA]

Again, do all of you think it is appropriate for a minutes silence to be held at a football match which was not held on Remembrance Day?
Well yes, it is appropriate. All over Britain there are many events held on the Sunday closest to Remembrance Day.

This was always going to happen as the "Poppy" has been hijacked by the BNP and the like as a sign of nationalism.
What a load of rubbish! The BNP have NOT hijacked the Poppy. The Poppy has been worn for many years before the BNP came along. Are you really saying that because the BNP also wear Poppies, that this justifies denigrating the memory of millions of people killed in wars? And why was it "always going to happen"? Were the BNP out in force at that particular match?

Time to keep politics out of football and play the game.
And what would you say about your cartoon of a liitle man pissing on a picture of a former British Prime Minister that the IRA tried to bomb? On a football forum as well.

If people want to pay respects then let them pay it in their own time, not enforce it on others who tightly or wrongly are opposed to observing the silence.
If you say so, as long as we don't have to put up with green clad fuckwits polluting our streets on St Patricks Day. This isn't Ireland you know and I don't like having this foreign pissup enforced on me via tv every year.

we had a German International with a fecking Poppy on his jeresey. I'm sure that would have gone down well and illustrates how poitical correctness has gone mad.

Maybe your German player had enough intelligence to realise that Remembrance Day is just that, a day to remember ALL who have fallen in times of war, including one time foes.

.

It sounds to me like you are blaming anyone but Celtic fans. If you follow a team that plays in Britain, you should accept the ceremonies the British people observe at their football grounds. Finally, here is an interpretation of the word Bigot. You certainly tick the appropriate boxes for me.....A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.
The correct use of the term requires the elements of obstinacy, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing devotion.

[yogi]

M160RA wrote:
Rangers fans left a mess, they certainly didn't "destroy" Manchester. Or was that an obtuse reference to the IRA bombing?
Believe me, after the last couple of visits fom Celtic fans, none of you Porridge Wogs are without reproach.


yogi wrote:
Hmmmmmmm, let me see who's the hun in disguise ?
You sound like a bigot to me tosser.

[Olympic (Vista) Bhoy]

While we're playing define the word:

Slander

1. Law Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.

A knuckledragging Englishman lecturing an Irishman on bigotry. Oh the irony.

I'll have a pint for you on St Patrick's Day or should I join the thousands celebrating their Englishnesss or is that Britishness clad in George Crosses on St George's Day..........oops

Answers on a postcard from ol' Blighty.

And for the record my Great Grandfather died in the battle of the Somme

[ozzie owl]

Please explain. It may only be a minority but this is not a good image for your club.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXWvXyKh ... r_embedded

In very poor taste.

Again, do all of you think it is appropriate for a minutes silence to be held at a football match which was not held on Remembrance Day? This was always going to happen as the "Poppy" has been hijacked by the BNP and the like as a sign of nationalism. Time to keep politics out of football and play the game. If people want to pay respects then let them pay it in their own time, not enforce it on others who tightly or wrongly are opposed to observing the silence.

we had a German International with a fecking Poppy on his jeresey. I'm sure that would have gone down well and illustrates how poitical correctness has gone mad.

NO justification for the Celtic supporters actions.

[DOC]

if you look at it from the supporters side many were dragged into the war as ireland and scotland were part of the uk, many didn't want to be there and this adds to the poppy debate...

[slowcoach]

Not true with the Irish.

The Military Service Act 1916 and recruitment by Class
Disappointed at the results of the Derby Scheme, the Government introduced the Military Service Act on 27 January 1916. All voluntary enlistment was stopped. All British males were now deemed to have enlisted - that is, they were conscripted - if they were aged between 18 and 41 and resided in Great Britain (excluding Ireland) and were unmarried or a widower on 2 November 1915.

http://www.1914-1918.net/recruitment.htm

RECRUITING BOOM IN LISBURN
A goodly number of Nationalists enlisted in the Irish Brigade, and on Wednesday evening the local company of the Irish National Volunteers had a farewell route march. The company numbering 120 strong, carrying rifles, marched out from St. Joseph’s Hall via the Longstone, away round by Halftowns, Blaris and home by the Dublin Road”.

http://www.friendsschoollisburn.org.uk/ ... ad=tasks#K

[slowcoach]

I think you will find that the poppy on the Celtic shirts and people in the crowd is a Scottish poppy, which differs from an English poppy. Scottish one has no leaves.

http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk ... /poppy.htm

Read that and and you might understand what the poppy and Rememberance Day is all about.

Nothing political about it.

[Red-4-Life]

im a Hoops fan and thats quite disgusting what the fans did. Must have been a small group of drunkens who dont care for much in life.

[DOC]

I think you will find that the poppy on the Celtic shirts and people in the crowd is a Scottish poppy, which differs from an English poppy. Scottish one has no leaves.

http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk ... /poppy.htm

Read that and and you might understand what the poppy and Rememberance Day is all about.

Nothing political about it.

people have ,ade it political, this was not its intention however... read vista bhoys article in this thread or the other thread and it explaions how some people have seen it become a sign of england and protestants... they feel it is now a sign of england

[slowcoach]

From the article last paragraph.

What is beyond dispute is that the poppy and the issue of Remembrance has become the enjoyable plaything of these rival groups of Old Firm fans. A much bigger, wider section of Rangers and Celtic supporters despair of it all - and it is important to remember that those fans are the majority - but from the die-hards it is all quite a stunning exhibition of ignorance and bitterness.

Perhaps it's for the better that they never will be allowed in the EPL if this is the attitude of some of the die hards.