How is this not a penalty

[Translator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wfocNmRc_A

1m 32s in.

[MG&Son]

In all fairness to the ref it did look like the Sienna player got a touch one the ball. Unfortunately they do not have Replays to watch like we do.

[Litmanen]

In all fairness to the ref it did look like the Sienna player got a touch one the ball. Unfortunately they do not have Replays to watch like we do.

[BAGGIO 15]

I thought it was a clear pen.

[# 9]

I thought it was a clear pen.

same

the funny thing is, he gets tackled pretty hard yet, gets straight back up like nothing happened. when players get nipped and go down for minutes lol

[Kitchimo]

If you slow it down and look from the goal-line angle, it's a penalty. At normal speed to me it looked like the defender won the ball.

[Translator]

Even if the ref thinks the defender got the ball the contact around the knees!!! prevented him from continuing the play and the penalty is still there.

Admittedly I'd hate to be a ref, you get a split second to make the call then the arm chair experts debate over every possible camera angle in slow mo, rewinding and pausing the tape at the point of contact and despite still not being sure will have a go at the ref anyway.

I can understand why the AFL takes the communist approach and doesn't let the media criticise the ref's as part of their contract negotiations. Although if they did that in Italy the football coverage on TV would see 70% less air time

[getborn]

would a linesman ever dare to intervene?

[BrickTop]

in normal play i can definitely see how the ref could think the player won the ball - the linesman should have intervened.

[Nice One Cyril]

Even if the ref thinks the defender got the ball the contact around the knees!!! prevented him from continuing the play and the penalty is still there.

You must play by different rules then. All the referee has to judge is whether the defender made contact with the ball first or the player. Ball first = no pen. Player first = pen.

If he judges that the ball was won first then what happens on the follow through as part of the tackle is totally irrelevant.

[MG&Son]

Even if the ref thinks the defender got the ball the contact around the knees!!! prevented him from continuing the play and the penalty is still there.

You must play by different rules then. All the referee has to judge is whether the defender made contact with the ball first or the player. Ball first = no pen. Player first = pen.

If he judges that the ball was won first then what happens on the follow through as part of the tackle is totally irrelevant.

unless the tackle is from behind.

[Shaggetz]

I love the Italian commentators.

So much more interesting than the ones we get here.

[Nice One Cyril]

Even if the ref thinks the defender got the ball the contact around the knees!!! prevented him from continuing the play and the penalty is still there.

You must play by different rules then. All the referee has to judge is whether the defender made contact with the ball first or the player. Ball first = no pen. Player first = pen.

If he judges that the ball was won first then what happens on the follow through as part of the tackle is totally irrelevant.

unless the tackle is from behind.

If the tackle is from behind you'd almost certainly have to make contact with the player first. Trying reading what I wrote.

[French Franger]

In all fairness to the ref it did look like the Sienna player got a touch one the ball.

Getting a touch on the ball doesn't mean it is not a foul.

[Nice One Cyril]

In all fairness to the ref it did look like the Sienna player got a touch one the ball.

Getting a touch on the ball doesn't mean it is not a foul.

It does if you get it first.

[French Franger]

Not necessarily. You can still get a touch on the ball and bring down the player whilst the ball is still in play and it is a foul.

[Nice One Cyril]

Not necessarily. You can still get a touch on the ball and bring down the player whilst the ball is still in play and it is a foul.

It all depends on the refs perception. The generally accepted rule is ball first, no foul but the referee has discretion to award a free kick for careless, reckless or excessively forceful tackles such as the two footed over the top lunge. In this particular case, which is the one we are talking about, IF the player got the ball first then it's not a penalty. There was nothing 'dirty' about the tackle so what happens after the defender gets the ball is not a consideration.

[Skliro]

The generally accepted rule is ball first, no foul

It's not a rule, just a misconception.

[aabchuan]

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[Nice One Cyril]

The generally accepted rule is ball first, no foul

It's not a rule, just a misconception.

For the pedantic, maybe I should have said 'the generally accepted interpretation is ball first, no foul'.

You did however, use the sneaky journalistic trick of taking a small section of my comment out of context. I did state that the ref has discretion. You're not Val in disguise are you?

[Kitchimo]

The generally accepted rule is ball first, no foul

It's not a rule, just a misconception.

For the pedantic, maybe I should have said 'the generally accepted interpretation is ball first, no foul'.

You did however, use the sneaky journalistic trick of taking a small section of my comment out of context. I did state that the ref has discretion. You're not Val in disguise are you?

No, but he is in a disguise!

[Le King]

cause its not at old trafford?

[MG&Son]

If the tackle is from behind you'd almost certainly have to make contact with the player first. Trying reading what I wrote.

i did read try to read what you wrote the first time, and was sucesfull in understanding it. Therefore..

Not necessarily. You can still get a touch on the ball and bring down the player whilst the ball is still in play and it is a foul.

[Nice One Cyril]

i did read try to read what you wrote the first time, and was sucesfull in understanding it. Therefore..

Not necessarily. You can still get a touch on the ball and bring down the player whilst the ball is still in play and it is a foul.

Oh dear, it must be Pedantic Tuesday.

You shouldn't go out because you could get run over by a bus - not very likely, but possible. Same as, if you get the ball first it's not very likely to be given a foul - but still possible since it's down the how the ref sees it.

In the particular case in this topic, there was nothing in the tackle that could be described as dangerous so the ref was right if he thought the defender played the ball first. Obviously if you come sailing in with both feet off the ground and happen to touch the ball first before you break the other player's leg, then refs are likely to take a dim view of it.

Mind how you cross the road old boy

[French Franger]

You did however, use the sneaky journalistic trick of taking a small section of my comment out of context.

No he didn't. He focus on the part which you got wrong. Phrase it how you like, it is not a rule. Many disputes with refereeing decisions come about because of players not knowing the rules. Another one is when players refer to "the last man" which too is not a rule.

[Nice One Cyril]

You did however, use the sneaky journalistic trick of taking a small section of my comment out of context.

No he didn't. He focus on the part which you got wrong. Phrase it how you like, it is not a rule. Many disputes with refereeing decisions come about because of players not knowing the rules. Another one is when players refer to "the last man" which too is not a rule.

Ah you pedant.

Note that there are no rules in football at all, technically they are laws. Therefore, if I had said it was "a generally accepted law" then you would have been right. As it was I used the looser English term (which you're struggling with) of "rule" (as in 'rule of thumb'). To clarify my meaning I then used 'interpretation' since 'rule' seemed to confuse you.

Please enlighten me oh wise one, what word would you choose from the dictionary to describe something that is generally accepted?

See, I can play the pedant too.

[French Franger]

Rules/laws... call it what you like but the bottom line is that just because you get a touch on the ball means it is not a foul is wrong.

[Nice One Cyril]

Rules/laws... call it what you like but the bottom line is that just because you get a touch on the ball means it is not a foul is wrong.

I can see now why you have a condom as an avatar - you are obviously the result of a rubber failure.

I didn't say that it applied EVERY time, just that it was a general rule (of thumb). That means in general.

Just so I can be clear, in a tackle when the player gets the ball first, what percentage of the time do YOU think the ref is likely to give a foul?

See, you're arguing about 5% or so.

[Judge Judy]

thought it was a penalty, on replay, thought he got the ball, but ref didn't even give a corner did he?