Women's football versus netball and basketball

[SAD GAL]

Being on the outer of the game gives me an opportunity to reflect upon the status of the game within the community and determine whether or not, I would follow the sport if I were not involved in it week to week.

I thought I would put it out to the forumites to get their opinions. I know it might be hard to be objective because when you are in the sport, the world revolves around it. When on the outer, its different.

My thoughts are based on comparing netball, basketball and football when you look at the number of players playing the sport.

I am not involved or have ever followed netball however, the Thunderbirds are all the talk. Not only because they are in the grand final. But the players are on TV, in the paper, billboards, etc throughout the season. The profile is as good as it gets. Sell out crowds to finals games. big crowds at regular season games. Prime time coverage.

Basketball. same as netball. Big supporter base. Plenty of exposure on TV. The players are well known. We all know the players playing overseas.

Womens’ football is apparently the fastest growing female sport in the world and Australia however:

1) exposure is minimal - Media is non-existent
2) People outside the sport may have heard it but equate it to a minnow sport
3) Attendances at WNSL or Lady Reds games are a handful Usually family or friends.
4) No one would know who any of the players were or those who are overseas.

If its the biggest sport in the world and Australia, then why is its status down down the list?

[ball_girl]

Womens’ football is apparently the fastest growing female sport in the world and Australia however:

1) exposure is minimal - Media is non-existent
2) People outside the sport may have heard it but equate it to a minnow sport
3) Attendances at WNSL or Lady Reds games are a handful Usually family or friends.
4) No one would know who any of the players were or those who are overseas.

If its the biggest sport in the world and Australia, then why is its status down down the list?

1) media is generally non existant because there isnt the consistency of a high standard that the netball or the basketball seems to have. the womens games are being broadcast on abc, so thats a start.

2) people outside the sport probably equate it to a minnow sport because they dont understand it, i mean, really, its a whole lot more technical than netball.

3) theres been one season of the W league. give it a chance to take off then criticise the attendance.

4) kinda ties back into number one. without the media, how are people gonna know who players are.

just my thoughts on your 4 points. i could be wrong.

[SAD GAL]

Thanks for the reply however, I am not having a go at the sport rather drawing a female based sport where exposure and support are miles apart.

For a sport that is the biggest in the world that: Has a world cup. Played at the Olympics. Has a National League. Is an elite sport that has AIS and SASI support. The exposure and support is not commesurate.

This sport is played in some of the biggest nations in the world where support is phenomenal. Here ? Its abysmal.

[ball_girl]

i dont recall saying you were having a go at the sport.
i just implied that i dont think its fair to criticise attendance at womens games when theres only been one season of the W league so far. Netball probably started off like this once upon a time.
im not criticising what your saying, just that, the national league netball has been around for many more years, so they've had much more time to get exposure and support. i mean, i remember going to thunderbirds games probably 10 years ago, and back then it was only netball players who knew who any of the thunderbirds players were...

and really, netball has a world cup. Has a National League. Is an elite sport that has AIS and SASI support.

Its just been around in the media longer because its had a national league for a much longer amount of time.

[SAD GAL]

The w-league superseded the WNSL. The WNSL had minimal coverage.

SASI/AIS have been around for over 20 years and football has been a part of the elite set up.

Soccer (if we believe the publicity) is /was on a participation wave (whilst netball and b'ball have been around for years)and what goes with that, is a huge mass of people who are obviously interested in the game.

Netball is a sexy topic that has captivated the media's attention. We're not tapping into the popularity of the sport. Even I'm ineterested in the T'Birds and our basketball team the lightning.

I am looking for people's perspectives.

[ecky_8]

well i'm not interested in our netball/basketball teams
but yes there is more publicity for those two sports
what do you want us to say? just agree with you so you can use it to have a go at ffsa/ffa/etc?
or disagree with you and start an argument
or what?

[SAD GAL]

Settle petal.

What do I want? Making an observation at the discrepancy amongst the female sports. Up for discussion.

Blame game? If the shoe fits. Maybe they are at a loss at what to do. If so. Get professional help.

Maybe the sport needs an image consultant. Maybe short skirts and tight shorts for netball and basketball are more appealing than long baggy shorts and strips??? Who knows.

What doesn't add up is this....Plenty of people playing the sport does not equate to high level spectator participation. Is it because netball is only played at the highest level by women whilst women's football is always compared to men/boys.

Read my message and then make an informed comment. Lack of support = less sponsorship = less coverage = a sport that does not reach its potential = it will fall away.

[themagnet]

Womens basketball has had to work extremely hard over the years to get people interested in their players and games. But I think its 'success' that actually gets people out to watch the games.
Adelaide lightning had great success winning the championship from 94-96, again in 98, some of the players went on to represent the opals and those teams had success winning the first medal in basketball for the country and doing well in other years. This has built a great fan base for the game in Adelaide, however, dont forget the lightning have had to move games from the Dome to wayville for a couple of years now because BASA couldnt support them, the crowds had started to thin out etc, etc,.
The netball follows a similar path. National teams have always been successful, as have teams representing Adelaide or SA. The media, especially, will always follow and support teams when they are up.
Unfortunately australian and SA womens soccer has yet have the same successes on a national and international scale. If womens soccer is already the fastest growing sport in the country then can u imagine the explosion that will happen when we do reach those heights???? Something to look forward to.

[SAD GAL]

Well put Magnet

[on the side]

Good topic SAD GAL.

I have been playing Netball longer then soccer, and it has taken a long long time to get the exposure, as changeling said. Alot of work time and effort has been put into raising Netball's profile, and when Australia are the best country in the world at Netball that does help too, don't forget that Men's Netball is not played professionally so its a little bit different to compare to Soccer, comparing Basketball is closer but I do understand what you mean.

When I saw the posters for the W league I thought they had tried really hard to make them look attractive and sexy and it did somewhat work, the girls did look 'appealing' so I think they took a leaf out women's netball and basketball books there..

I have always played netball but only started playing soccer last year because the mens soccer club I have always been around on a volunteer level started a womens team. Before that I had no desire to play, could not tell you what clubs played on a local level or state level and I had heard of the Matildas but could not name one player. The profile and publicity does need to be raised but I think they are trying, just need to try harder/get more money.

[SAD GAL]

Thanks "o.t.s"

I appreciate your comments. It is exactly what I was trying to get across.

Its for the betterment of the game taht drives me. You either strike when its hot or you miss out. Again.

[beaches]

Netball(some 50 years ago called basketball, I am showing my age) has been the main womens sport in my lifetime. Womens Football has only been in vogue for approx 30 years.

I can recall that in Adelaide in the late 1960's early 1970's the Domestic Club Basketball was a very high standard comparable with the Eastern States, in fact North Adelaide were Australian Club Champions on a couple of occassions, girls used to come to SA from interstate to play club here because of the standard. As a State Team they were more than competitive. Ican recall going to womens club games at Forestville mainly and at Apollo Stadium, there was excellent crowd support.

Until the standard of the local Football Womens Premier League is raised a lot the elite level will also go begging. However how to raise the standard of Premier League is a very touchy subject, whether a 6 team Super League with the best players playing in this week in week out is the answer I dont know.

Things do have to change for the game to grow in quality as well as quantity.

[themagnet]

in fact North Adelaide were Australian Club Champions

thats right. This was at a time when our local clubs were part of the national league though. Norlunga were also in there.

I actually think one of the best ways for womens soccer to promote itself is to align itself more closely with the mens comp. I think the AU womens should as often as possible play the curtain raiser for the mens game, especially when they are at home, players from both sides should be involved in coaching clinics and promotional activities together. Its the way basketball has done it in the past, lightning used to play before the 36ers, and in the local comp women play before the men. I know it isn't possible in our Premier league because of reserves, u19's, not all clubs having teams etc, but AU could do it.

[SAD GAL]

The discussion always (rightfully so) goes back to the standard of the comp. Beaches is right. Quality not quantity. What we have in women’s’ football is quantity however quality is lacking. This will impact on the sport gaining credibility out there.

One reason is that there are a lot of players (senior) who have left the game (for good who knows) and this leaves a huge gap. Yes there are plenty of young girls starting to play the game and end up getting a game in the seniors because of the exodus of players.

Why do the senior players (with years of experience) end up leaving? Who do the young girls have to look up to as role models. I heard from one player (since left the game) comment when sasi cut their age group “who will the young players look up to? years ago there was di, stocco, chi, etc…” You need the “elder statesman” to provide a guide. This impacts upon the quality.

Back to the topic. Unless the standard improves the game will have huge participation however, it will not escalate to a newsworthy sport and hence lose support.

My suggestion is to reduce the number of teams. Work towards better facilities. Continue to use marquee games. Conduct monthly carnivals (like a state comp) where 2 Prems games are played. Have a round robin comp. Need to include all clubs/teams. How many times have I been to a “game of the month” or a pre-season cup game where once the juniors have finished their games, they all depart and don’t hang around to watch the main event? Nearly 90% leave.

Even before netball became national, we had a strong local comp. Remember the Matrics, Garville, etc????

[BillShankly]

the culture in womens soccer is very much when a player plays a game, they leave and dont stay to watch the game after which would be a seniors match at club level.

Clubs should have the same format as men, 19s, reserves and seniors playing at the same week in and week out, that way you are gauranteed a crowd and a good atmosphere.

You have to look at the way the game is promoted and organised yearly, continual changes to leagues doesnt help especially in regards to the retention of senior players.

From what i understand the federation will be grading clubs in terms of select criteria, including facilities from next year. This will only help improve the game, but at what cost, clubs that afford to upgrade face the chance of being left behind by others financially.

[beaches]

Noarlunga= Glenelg Tigers at that time. (I am really old I told you that).lol
Interesting the daughter of a player who came from interstate(Townsville) (Janelle)back in the past I refered to,in the Advertiser today, Mia Newley. The sister of Brad.
Their father Arthur was a very good player for West Torrens and also a wonderful PR man for Basketball in SA going back 40years.
I am sure that in years to come the same situation will occur in the future as regards Football.

Yes ways have to be found to progress womens football here in SA, maybe FFSA could call for submissions from all who wish to do so, in a positive manner.

[ronshippau]

We had this same thread started by the same person last year, if you want to drag down football don't use this site, soccer/football is about equal with netball in registered players, we have a W league which gets live coverage on the ABC not HD1, SBS shows womens internationals live, I went into a Westfield and a poster of a woman goalie was 2 levels high. What more do you want. It is my belief that Netball and football are not competing for the same people, the sort of girls who play football, 10 years ago would have played field hockey which has plummeted in popularity. I do not want to see sad gal start this thread again, its been done to death. IMHO

[ecky_8]

ronshippau you're my favourite new person

[The Beaut Game]

I suppose after sitting on the side for a few months, year etc, I think I can be objective. Netbal and basketball (women's) is murdering our game. 2 storey posters with girls "done up" doesn't do much for the sport.

Maybe because nothing seem's to have changed in 12 months has warranted this subject raising its head. I've been involved with the game for almost 9 years and although we have had some bright lights starting to show the way, it bloominm stops. Some good people wanted to step up and get the ball rolling but the "wall" came up. These people have left the game. we're poorer for that. The heights of the period 2000-2006 have passed us.

We had the WNSL played as a curtain rasier to the men's A-League. VERY SUCCESSFUL. People were commenting on the skill of the game and started to come earlier to wach the Sensations. Things looked up. Then guess what? It stopped. It ended. Or whatever. The WNSL died. One step forward. Many steps back.

I've not been around to any of the games this year and basically, I'm in the dark. There's nothing out there that I can read/see/hear that keeps me interested or informed. Its like a secret sect.

Great game + Poor publicity. = remains a small time sport. IMHO too.

The whole scene needs al the heads charged with its management sit down and nut out a path to increasing exposure. Its all bloomin Basketball. Netball. what about women's football. Its the best sport.

[themagnet]

I. Netbal and basketball (women's) is murdering our game.

Its all bloomin Basketball. Netball. what about women's football. Its the best sport.

They are hardly 'murdering our game.' netball and basketball work hard for for the exposure they get, and it has taken time. Can u blame them for promoting themselves well? No. Nor do I think that if netball and basketball are taking exposure away from soccer, it's not a competition.

Maybe the womens league should be looking at what basketball and netball have done and try to model themselves on it. Take a leaf out of their book.

[The Beaut Game]

Netball is indoors. over 9,000 at the GF today. A couple of years ago we had the Matildas in town playing against o/s teams. theere wasn't 9,000 or 900. maybe 90 people at the game. For our national team hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Personally, I don't think women's football isan easy game to market when the inevtaible comparison with the men's is lways drawn into the argument.

Hope I'm wrong but, even I was drawn to watch the Tbirds today. exciting game. Bad result. I struggled to watch more than 5 minutes of a W-league game on tv last season. Sorry. (An dI am someone who had always watched the game)

[billy the kid]

Women's footy is a niche sport that lives under the shadows of the men's game. The lack of publicity illustrates this.

A wise friend of mine once said "the women's game will only get sorted out and resources given to it, once the men's game is sorted out". That was said about 6 years ago and to date still stands true.

At club level (where part of a men's/boys context) , our game is put behind even the boys. Its a hard nut to crack.

[ball_girl]

Women's footy is a niche sport that lives under the shadows of the men's game. The lack of publicity illustrates this.

A wise friend of mine once said "the women's game will only get sorted out and resources given to it, once the men's game is sorted out". That was said about 6 years ago and to date still stands true.

At club level (where part of a men's/boys context) , our game is put behind even the boys. Its a hard nut to crack.

yet some of us are coming up with "small town mentality" ideas to try and improve this... but no.
i guess its not good enough to take things one small step at a time. some people on here only think its a good idea if its gonna get us up there with netball right away.

START SMALL! get people out to premier level games, to show them that women can play football, even if its not as quick as the mens game. this comes down to each individual club. work on getting the juniors and the parents interested in the prems team, then push further to get people out to the womens united games.

like last year, did it ever happen, that if you took your ffsa players card to the womens united games, that you got free entry? i know there was talk of it, but i dont know if it ever happened?

[shorty]

Tbh - it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack... You Know the needle is there u just aren't looking inthe right places..
so until we give them something to tAlk about - the media coverage will be close to nothing...