Trials selection process
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Trials selection process
Just wondering how coaches pick their teams, is it done intirely by the coach or is it done by the comittee. Does everyone have equal oppertunity to get picked.
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BillShankly
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the juggler
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the juggler
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r
Committees do a fantastic job in their respective clubs I'm sure but once they become involved in player selection, the criteria to choose a player COULD become politically driven rather than talent driven. Not always, but the dangers are there.
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Barney Rubble
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You should get the coaches from the year above/below to attend with the actual coach, this allows (hopefully) potential players to be selected for a higher age if they are suitable for progression.
Putting players up is not always a good thing
but recognition is the most important thing. Some players do not perform well at trials (rather like me in school exams a few years ago) but have huge potential.
besides, a selection panel (excluding committee) helps with the "many hands (eyes) make light work" A player does something really good and the single coach is looking the other way
Anyway that is my 2 bob's worth
Putting players up is not always a good thing
but recognition is the most important thing. Some players do not perform well at trials (rather like me in school exams a few years ago) but have huge potential.besides, a selection panel (excluding committee) helps with the "many hands (eyes) make light work" A player does something really good and the single coach is looking the other way
Anyway that is my 2 bob's worth
BR
Good idea to have a panel of selectors that includes the appointed coach.
However trials are usually held for all teams on the same day at the same time (or similar) so other age group coaches may not be available to be part of a selection panel. You'd need different trial times, which means some coaches would be at trials from dawn until dusk, almost). Many coaches aren't available to do this.
Solution: use committee members as part of the selection panel. Some committee members whilst helpful may not necessarily be able to assess the triallists on a team basis. For instance, a coach needs to select a balanced squad, which more often than not is not the best 15 or 16 players there - the best 15 or 16 could all be midfielders.
Recommendation: A selection panel (the coach plus 2 or 3 others) is still better than a coach alone in my opinion. I think the coach should have the final say as it is his/her head on the chopping block if things go awry.
that's my 2 bob's worth...
Good idea to have a panel of selectors that includes the appointed coach.
However trials are usually held for all teams on the same day at the same time (or similar) so other age group coaches may not be available to be part of a selection panel. You'd need different trial times, which means some coaches would be at trials from dawn until dusk, almost). Many coaches aren't available to do this.
Solution: use committee members as part of the selection panel. Some committee members whilst helpful may not necessarily be able to assess the triallists on a team basis. For instance, a coach needs to select a balanced squad, which more often than not is not the best 15 or 16 players there - the best 15 or 16 could all be midfielders.
Recommendation: A selection panel (the coach plus 2 or 3 others) is still better than a coach alone in my opinion. I think the coach should have the final say as it is his/her head on the chopping block if things go awry.
that's my 2 bob's worth...
For the Game. For the World.
Drusetta
Drusetta
I've been to trials over the last 3 years where players were sent home early, before the end of the trial, training session. On another occasion players were made to play amongst themselves while the "select players " were trialing under the eyeship of coach and "helpers". On occasions team selection has been political and not fair to the honest triallers who may be good or not so good players.
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Barney Rubble
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Hey Drusetta,
good point about clubs that have their trials all at the same time, they will be the lucky clubs with lots of pitches available
Your right about the midfielders though.
It is always important to make the time to speak to all the trialling players regardless of their skill level, give them all encouragement, especially if they make a mistake.
Like Antipasto's idea about getting a senior player down as well, gives inspiration to the youngsters x 10 
good point about clubs that have their trials all at the same time, they will be the lucky clubs with lots of pitches available
Your right about the midfielders though.
It is always important to make the time to speak to all the trialling players regardless of their skill level, give them all encouragement, especially if they make a mistake.
Like Antipasto's idea about getting a senior player down as well, gives inspiration to the youngsters
x 10 Antipasto
Good idea involving senior players with selections.
But trials where players are sent home early, is unjust and unfair. As is, leaving them play amongst themselves whilst working with the elite.
In my experience with conducting trials, there will be half a dozen stand-outs and half a dozen under developed players noticeable very quickly. It's the rest in between that must be closely watched.
That said, there are plenty of drills and exercises at a coach's disposal to ensure all players get a fair run and equal look at. I always ask players in what position/s they want to be trialled in especially. I then watch them in small sided games or drills that illustrate the traits required for that position. If they seem under developed (compared to others) then I'll try watch them in drills or try them in a position where I don't have many options. (And lately, this happens to be defence. Where have all the defenders gone?)
Good idea involving senior players with selections.
But trials where players are sent home early, is unjust and unfair. As is, leaving them play amongst themselves whilst working with the elite.
In my experience with conducting trials, there will be half a dozen stand-outs and half a dozen under developed players noticeable very quickly. It's the rest in between that must be closely watched.
That said, there are plenty of drills and exercises at a coach's disposal to ensure all players get a fair run and equal look at. I always ask players in what position/s they want to be trialled in especially. I then watch them in small sided games or drills that illustrate the traits required for that position. If they seem under developed (compared to others) then I'll try watch them in drills or try them in a position where I don't have many options. (And lately, this happens to be defence. Where have all the defenders gone?)
For the Game. For the World.
Drusetta
Drusetta
Drusetta I really like your trialling methods, it gives everyone equal oppertunity, it also gives a chance for someone you didn't expect to shine.
As you said there are about half a dozen that stand out, and half a dozen under developed players which you notice quickly. It's the ones in the middle you got to watch.
This is when problems can occur, the ones in the middle are not always, but can be the controversial picks. Sometimes these players in the middle are picked on names and not talent.
As you said there are about half a dozen that stand out, and half a dozen under developed players which you notice quickly. It's the ones in the middle you got to watch.
This is when problems can occur, the ones in the middle are not always, but can be the controversial picks. Sometimes these players in the middle are picked on names and not talent.
Antipasto
My selections methods are similar to many coaches (as I have discovered when talking / asking coaches from other clubs about their selection methods).
For the players in between, there are many factors to consider. The player's potential is difficult to assess in the short trial time. Factors that I and other coaches have considered when deciding which players to choose include (in no particluar order):
(i) Years at the club (club loyalty)
(ii) Other siblings at the club
(iii) Versatility of the player - can they be developed to play in several positions
(iv) Team balance - other positions and player types already earmarked to be part of the squad
(v) How well the players get on with each other (friends off the park = friends on the park)
(vi) Attitude and effort put in by the player during the trial process
(vii) Baggage - eg parents, reliability, tardiness, other commitments
(viii) Committee's instructions - a borderline player may have his/her parent coaching at the club; or be a major sponsor; unreliable payer / debts outstandingfrom prior season
This is why a different coach would always chjoose a different squad - too many damn variables.
My selections methods are similar to many coaches (as I have discovered when talking / asking coaches from other clubs about their selection methods).
For the players in between, there are many factors to consider. The player's potential is difficult to assess in the short trial time. Factors that I and other coaches have considered when deciding which players to choose include (in no particluar order):
(i) Years at the club (club loyalty)
(ii) Other siblings at the club
(iii) Versatility of the player - can they be developed to play in several positions
(iv) Team balance - other positions and player types already earmarked to be part of the squad
(v) How well the players get on with each other (friends off the park = friends on the park)
(vi) Attitude and effort put in by the player during the trial process
(vii) Baggage - eg parents, reliability, tardiness, other commitments
(viii) Committee's instructions - a borderline player may have his/her parent coaching at the club; or be a major sponsor; unreliable payer / debts outstandingfrom prior season
This is why a different coach would always chjoose a different squad - too many damn variables.
For the Game. For the World.
Drusetta
Drusetta
When there is obvious unfairness, then the clubs generally step in and "explain" the situation to the player and parent.
It's never nice; and the coaches are often caught in the middle.
The problem is that a possibly talented player may be put off paying the sport altogether. And that's extremely frustating and disappointing.
It's never nice; and the coaches are often caught in the middle.
The problem is that a possibly talented player may be put off paying the sport altogether. And that's extremely frustating and disappointing.
For the Game. For the World.
Drusetta
Drusetta
Good comments Drusetta,
You seem to know what you are talking about.
What do you think about the number of trials.
I see a club like Birkalla are having 5!!!?
Seems the more you see the better chance you have of finding better players but 5 sessions seems like a marathon for everyone!!!!
Once you have answered that one I can ask you the hard questions like how do you deal with kids of committee members!!!
You seem to know what you are talking about.
What do you think about the number of trials.
I see a club like Birkalla are having 5!!!?
Seems the more you see the better chance you have of finding better players but 5 sessions seems like a marathon for everyone!!!!
Once you have answered that one I can ask you the hard questions like how do you deal with kids of committee members!!!
drussetta youre pretty spot on buddy, i wish every club thought logical like you do......ive played for quite a few years and i never had problems being selected in teams cos i was a decent player and very dedicated (not trying to show off) but i have seen many decent players as good if not better than me not selected because of political reasons and made these players give up on the sport and move to something else. the same thing happened in state selections, many players that really deserved their spot were dropped....politics were the answer.... now i started coaching and i dont want to see the same thing to happen to my players, ive printed your list and im going to follow it. good on ya champ
Real World
Sons of committee members huh? So glad you gave me an easy question, ya bugger.
If I have had to include a child (son or daughter) for whatever reason (which has happened from time to time) I find my strong discipline approach to team management ekes out any problems anyway. It doesn't win popularity awards with the player or parent concerned but it is fair and consistent.
(i) Find out what the club policy is for AVERAGE minimum game time for each player, and get it in writing
(ii) Deduct playing time for any player not displaying the right attitude, or being tardy, or not attending training.
(iii) I clearly explain these rules in my own Team Newsletter to parents, and re-iterate this to players regularly
Tardiness - a few minutes late to training or to the game will cost the player game time, unless they ring me beforehand with a plausible reason.
Children are pretty smart and if a player has been forced into the side, he will only be accepted by his peers if he is putting in the effort and has the right attitude - regardless of his ability. The wrong attitude will see him ostracized fairly quickly leading to less game time because he is not following the rules. I usually have the club's support because I have clearly communicated the rules and applied them consistently.
There were occasions I have left out the best player in the team or the goalkeeper because of attitude or tardiness - it cost us the game but these players were never late again. In addition, their own team-mates get on their case for not being on time or at least telephoning in advance.
(My high school teaching experience has helped me a lot with coaching).
The usual result sadly, is that the player is moved to another team, club or barely shows up. I'd rather they change their attitude or accept that they shouldn't be playing the sport for the sole reason that they do not have the passion for the game like their team-mates. Pity the parent nearly always still insists that their son is a superstar.
Sons of committee members huh? So glad you gave me an easy question, ya bugger.
If I have had to include a child (son or daughter) for whatever reason (which has happened from time to time) I find my strong discipline approach to team management ekes out any problems anyway. It doesn't win popularity awards with the player or parent concerned but it is fair and consistent.
(i) Find out what the club policy is for AVERAGE minimum game time for each player, and get it in writing
(ii) Deduct playing time for any player not displaying the right attitude, or being tardy, or not attending training.
(iii) I clearly explain these rules in my own Team Newsletter to parents, and re-iterate this to players regularly
Tardiness - a few minutes late to training or to the game will cost the player game time, unless they ring me beforehand with a plausible reason.
Children are pretty smart and if a player has been forced into the side, he will only be accepted by his peers if he is putting in the effort and has the right attitude - regardless of his ability. The wrong attitude will see him ostracized fairly quickly leading to less game time because he is not following the rules. I usually have the club's support because I have clearly communicated the rules and applied them consistently.
There were occasions I have left out the best player in the team or the goalkeeper because of attitude or tardiness - it cost us the game but these players were never late again. In addition, their own team-mates get on their case for not being on time or at least telephoning in advance.
(My high school teaching experience has helped me a lot with coaching).
The usual result sadly, is that the player is moved to another team, club or barely shows up. I'd rather they change their attitude or accept that they shouldn't be playing the sport for the sole reason that they do not have the passion for the game like their team-mates. Pity the parent nearly always still insists that their son is a superstar.
For the Game. For the World.
Drusetta
Drusetta
Number of trials - another tricky question. In my opinion 3 to 4 of 1.5 to 2 hours should be enough. Coaches need to be well organised with all exercises and drills pre-determined. 5 trial sessions is not a lot especially if the coach is new to the players. I had 4 trial sessions for the State Championships where I knew nothing about the players. It was difficult assessing 50 players.Real World wrote:Good comments Drusetta,
You seem to know what you are talking about.
What do you think about the number of trials.
I see a club like Birkalla are having 5!!!?
Seems the more you see the better chance you have of finding better players but 5 sessions seems like a marathon for everyone!!!!
Once you have answered that one I can ask you the hard questions like how do you deal with kids of committee members!!!
I've scoured the Internet looking for selection criteria and found various pieces on the sites of AC Milan, Barcelona, Ajax, Bayern Munich, Manchester United that more or less point to similar attributes. I also have read many books through public libraries, Office for Rec & Sport (in SA), FIFA in order to keep up to date with the evolution of the game.
Small sided games (4 vs 4) are recommended by just about everybody. And they work - 4 vs 4 amplify player's strengths and weaknesses. This however is difficult if 30+ players show up for trials; so I don't usually do this first. I conduct drills in small groups to test the other attributes -
Technique - ball control passing, heading, balance, goal scoring
Intelligence - movement off the ball, communication, deception skills, reading the game
Psyche - attitude/effort, confidence, aggression to win the ball, interaction with peers
Speed/Strength - physical spped, reaction speed, speed of thought, strength on the ball, stamina
These 4 attributes are not original - I got them from the Internet as well as many drills to test them. I was skeptical with some of the drills but was quickly proved wrong - they were very effective. I even conducted as pre-season with drills mostly using the ball (contrary to popular belief). Again I was skeptical but again I was proved wrong - it worked. My team were very fit and enjoyed the pre-season process much, much more.
Sorry to be so long winded in my answer...
For the Game. For the World.
Drusetta
Drusetta
In the past couple of years and I believe is the same case this year,
the trialists at Metrostars are assessed by the particular age group coach and his assistant with input from either the senior coach coordinator Brenton Heirn or the junior coach coordinator Ennio Luongo.
In certain cases i.e. under 17s trials, the under 19s coach assists in the process.
It seems to work well although not perfect.
the trialists at Metrostars are assessed by the particular age group coach and his assistant with input from either the senior coach coordinator Brenton Heirn or the junior coach coordinator Ennio Luongo.
In certain cases i.e. under 17s trials, the under 19s coach assists in the process.
It seems to work well although not perfect.
Rossonero, I can't tell you (or anyone) how to select your players. I can only recommend you have objective criteria and be consistent so that when a parent/player asks you why their son didn't make the team (and there will be several parents every time) you can list the reasons with full confidence in your methods.rossonero wrote:drussetta youre pretty spot on buddy, i wish every club thought logical like you do......ive played for quite a few years and i never had problems being selected in teams cos i was a decent player and very dedicated (not trying to show off) but i have seen many decent players as good if not better than me not selected because of political reasons and made these players give up on the sport and move to something else. the same thing happened in state selections, many players that really deserved their spot were dropped....politics were the answer.... now i started coaching and i dont want to see the same thing to happen to my players, ive printed your list and im going to follow it. good on ya champ
You're welcome to use my list as a starting point but by all means develop your own lists, and coaching resources. After all, you have to be happy with the team you've chosen.
As far as elite talent identification goes, trying to select one squad of 16 from a pool of talent has got to be difficult. The current U14 and U15 National Championships in Coffs Harbour is a case in point. Victoria put in 2 teams, NSW put in 3 teams, Queensland put in 2 teams with the smaller states putting in 1 team. And NSW Metro beat Northern Territory 17-0. That shouldn't happen. Given the popularity maybe SA should start thinking about 2 squads?
Good luck with your selecting.
For the Game. For the World.
Drusetta
Drusetta
If someone does know of the PERFECT selection method, I'd certainly like to know what it is. The Metros selection process - assessment by three experienced football people sounds as good as any.stargazer wrote:In the past couple of years and I believe is the same case this year,
the trialists at Metrostars are assessed by the particular age group coach and his assistant with input from either the senior coach coordinator Brenton Heirn or the junior coach coordinator Ennio Luongo.
In certain cases i.e. under 17s trials, the under 19s coach assists in the process.
It seems to work well although not perfect.
For the Game. For the World.
Drusetta
Drusetta
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soccer mum
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Trial selection process
Hi everyone,
I have sat and read every one's comments and very interesting they are but i feel there is really no fair way for trials, unless some how you can take away the parents and best mates and committee's. And maybe have independant coaches pick teams so the kids trialing have numbers and no names so then they get selected by ability and ability alone, not by names and who there dads are and who's mates with who.
I understand this would be highly unlikely but i never said it was a perfect world i just wish all these young kids no matter who they are would get a fair go even those kids with coaches as parents because sometimes it can work the other way as well the coaches son or daughter could be the best player and that can have problems as well so really bottom line it is hard either way you want to look at it
How about we all just let the kids trial and enjoy their chosen sport and give them all a fair go no matter what
I have sat and read every one's comments and very interesting they are but i feel there is really no fair way for trials, unless some how you can take away the parents and best mates and committee's. And maybe have independant coaches pick teams so the kids trialing have numbers and no names so then they get selected by ability and ability alone, not by names and who there dads are and who's mates with who.
I understand this would be highly unlikely but i never said it was a perfect world i just wish all these young kids no matter who they are would get a fair go even those kids with coaches as parents because sometimes it can work the other way as well the coaches son or daughter could be the best player and that can have problems as well so really bottom line it is hard either way you want to look at it
How about we all just let the kids trial and enjoy their chosen sport and give them all a fair go no matter what
I'm not in favour of that at all. It can cause dissention amongst the ranks after the team is chosen. As with every trials, there will be half a dozen standouts that show themselves pretty quickly.Antipasto wrote:Drusetta, how do you feel about the coach letting some of the players know they are in the squad, before they recieve their letters.
Once I've identified the standouts, I use that knowledge to
(i) Put them in the same team in a small sided game to test other players; OR
(ii) Separate them totally from each other and pit them against other players.
I sort of create a benchmark, and in my experience I have received some surprising results that have caused me not to select one or two standouts because of their lack of team unity, or attitude when 1 or 2 goals down, or their criticism of their team-mates, etc.
I just think it may be premature to tell players they are in the squad before trials have been completed. Other players may not shine immediately due to being nervous or simply not having been tested in the right position yet.
For the Game. For the World.
Drusetta
Drusetta
Now that's a clever idea. You're getting at the notion that "we should all be on the same side" irrespective of which club we play for. Yay! to that.CdOtzi wrote:Drusetta,
Do you think the trialling process needs to be investigated by the FFSA and a set of guidelines ( as you have ) be drawn up for Clubs to follow. It would help all trialling players to know that there are guidelines which will keep the selection process fair.
FIFA's motto is "for the good of the game" not for the good of the club, for the good of the parent!
I understand that many clubs have drawn up their own trial and selection guidelines but I don't know how consistent they are with each other.
A general guide to team selection issued by the FFSA is a great idea. Of course there will be some coaches whose egos are too big to accept someone else's guidelines or instructions.
For the Game. For the World.
Drusetta
Drusetta