Referees

[Quaro]

Just curious what the response has been to clubs providing referees for reserve games, as they tend to come from with in the ranks of a club there always seems to be complaints of bias. Also as a lot of the reserve refs are new to it, that’s my experience at least, there also seems to be more errors, poor calls etc which are inevitable but seems to create further tension.

More so for the people that have had to ref but for players as well, what is your experience with regard to the change, for players, do you respond differently to these refs and is there a distinct and notable difference between 'proper refs' and the new ones?

[Missing Post Count]

This has been discussed before in other threads. The perception of bias will always be there, whether it's warranted or not. Many club referees do other things with the club (ie set up barbecues etc) and since each match has two teams but one needs one referee I think teams who are on the road should have their club referee assigned to do a game in another division. The home team will still have their personnel at their game to do other things.

[Wraith]

I agree with Bodo.

[the gloves are off !!]

This has been discussed before in other threads. The perception of bias will always be there, whether it's warranted or not. Many club referees do other things with the club (ie set up barbecues etc) and since each match has two teams but one needs one referee I think teams who are on the road should have their club referee assigned to do a game in another division. The home team will still have their personnel at their game to do other things.

I think you will find that club referees will want to be where their team is, to assign them to other teams games will see less putting their hands up to do it.
Wherever they go they will make mistakes and be perceived as being biased.
At least their home club might offer them some sense of personal safety !

[Missing Post Count]

I think you will find that club referees will want to be where their team is, to assign them to other teams games will see less putting their hands up to do it.
Wherever they go they will make mistakes and be perceived as being biased.
At least their home club might offer them some sense of personal safety !

You won't get any argument from me there. I think most clubs would prefer it if they didn't have to supply a club referee but it's the supply and demand that's led it to them having to. I've gone to a few games this season around the traps and I don't think I've seen a club referee that was in my opinion biased. Linesmen... that's another story. Mind you, only one really has stood out this season.

[Kyall-Vale]

well here at the vale our club ref aint bias he calls it equally bad both ways to his credit atleast sombody does it

[Quaro]

You won't get any argument from me there. I think most clubs would prefer it if they didn't have to supply a club referee but it's the supply and demand that's led it to them having to. I've gone to a few games this season around the traps and I don't think I've seen a club referee that was in my opinion biased. Linesmen... that's another story. Mind you, only one really has stood out this season.

That was where I was heading, just from personal experience and what I have observed club refs seem to get less respect than the regulars who don't get much anyway, a single unfavourable call and you'll get players complaining of bias and giving the ref hell.

We have struggled to find people to do it and lack a person with any degree of experience at this level, this weekend we had one of the players relatives do it, he had some experience but not much. He had an honest go at it but made mistakes which are inevitable given the fact he lacks experience.

I'm not sure how common this is though, it is only based on my limited observation after all. Here's my point, the only reason we have refs now at reserve games is because these people are willing to do it for $25 dollars at the cost of two hours of their time, without them we don't have a ref and we don't play, simple as that.

If what I have observed is a common occurrence than people aren't going to step up and ref reserve matches in the future, players seem to be completely unaware of this. You would think they are smart enough to realise the refs they have aren't experienced, they're just the unlucky bastard stuck with an unpleasant job in the absence of a willing professional alternative. Instead you get players bitching and moaning, throwing tantrums etc etc

Professional refs can be made available for reserve games, we can have professional linesman too but at a ridiculous price, no body wants that but it is the only available alternative to what we have now, so at some point players need to cut the shit and give these refs a break.

The purpose of the thread was just to gauge how common this is, my observations are limited to the games I've watched and I can't talk for the entire league or multiple divisions, I could be well and truly off the mark after all.

(If this has been discussed in another thread could someone point me to it because I was unable to find a similar topic.)

[Lucas Leiva]

All I have to say is that EVERYONE that is playing in a reserves team should be thankful for these volunteers because without them (including the "biased" away refs) there would be no reserve divisions.

I have watched the refeering in both home and away games in the reserves and have to honestly say that from what I have seen they make the same errors anyone refeering for the first time (as in first year) will make. I think it extremely unreasonable for them to be abused to the extent that they are. They are the only reason the teams aren't playing pick-up soccer in the park and kicking the crepe out of each other.

If more people respected these guys then more people would be willing to volunteer to become a ref. I would help out reffing a Sunday reserve team if people treated them respectively. But in this current climate with the comments I see, HELL NO!

[nugget66]

well here at the vale our club ref aint bias he calls it equally bad both ways to his credit atleast sombody does it

Honest Eddie is bias.....he's just blind as a bat .....
but you right he's better than none.

[kramerica]

I think the Referee debate/discussion should be resarected, take us off talking about the SAASL and pherhaps even trying to help them with a few ideas.

Agree with most of the posts on here, the club ref will always be considered biased by the oppostition and especially after he makes a bad call.

This is for you "Talk is Cheap" (aka Bill).

Couple of suggestions to help improve the Club Ref initiative:

1) Clubs instead of providing a Club Ref for there Reserves, should provide for the alternate day reserves, ie Sat club to provide for Sun club & vice versa
This way the club volunteers can still help there clubs and watch there club games.

2) Proper Referee uniforms to be worn. (you'd be suprised how this changes the view of the Ref) Not these flouresenct jackets.

Any other suggestions?

[Missing Post Count]

1) Clubs instead of providing a Club Ref for there Reserves, should provide for the alternate day reserves, ie Sat club to provide for Sun club & vice versa

This a twist to what I proposed (ie. away referees being assigned to games from another division). Never thought about alternate days.

[Rexie]

1) Clubs instead of providing a Club Ref for there Reserves, should provide for the alternate day reserves, ie Sat club to provide for Sun club & vice versa

This a twist to what I proposed (ie. away referees being assigned to games from another division). Never thought about alternate days.

Im not sure how well this would work either though. Most of the people who do the job would be the ones who do lots of stuff around their clubs, as has been said, and would probably love the other day to relax and socialise, or perhaps have kids soccer, or help out another club, perhaps feds.
Also I feel that the Sunday Leauge is tougher (as in harder tackles etc) than the sat one. Thats my experience anyways. and this may cause some confusion in players as well.

I do like the idea of the refs wearing the uniforms. That may change the mentality.

Why couldnt the ref for the first team game do 2 games either. And just get paid more for it. They get assigned a ground for the day and have to do Reserves and First Team.

Every options has good positives and good negatives.

[Aldo Serena]

I can guarantee none of our club refs would want to do a Saturday league game.

[Hawkesy]

1) Clubs instead of providing a Club Ref for there Reserves, should provide for the alternate day reserves, ie Sat club to provide for Sun club & vice versa

This a twist to what I proposed (ie. away referees being assigned to games from another division). Never thought about alternate days.

We are in discussions with a sunday team to provide exactly that. Both teams will be able to say they have gone out of their wat to remove some perception of bias.

In all the games I played this year, I would say only one I thought was a cheat. Wanderers guy was rubbish, but he was rubbish both ways. Most referees were poor but didn't think they were cheats, just poor.

[Missing Post Count]

I can only think of one who I thought was biased that I saw this season... and it wasn't in your division.

[Wraith]

Which div?

[Missing Post Count]

Wasn't on said day either

[kramerica]

I wouldn't like to Ref on the other day either and have the time off. But on the same token I wouldn't even want to Ref on the day that we are playing either.

My thoughts are if we are all serious about the Referee project, which has been a good initiative from the SAASL, and we want to remove the bias view, we as clubs need to add to what the SAASL.

Aldo, suggestion, why not propose two or three club refs at your club and a roster system to ref a saturday game, that way you can all have your sundays off.

[Redders]

There are some issues regarding the Amatuer League Referees association that need ironing out. There was one person last season, who was a qualified referee with the federation and wanted to offer his services. He already had a uniform, but the association wanted to charge him $130(think that was the fee) just to referee. What for? He has a uniform, he has the expertise, yet we push him away with a silly joining fee he has already paid to the FFA. If they want to attract more refs, drop the silly fee with the money they have in the bank. Im sure if it was free, or alot cheaper to join, you would think more people would offer there services.

I also noticed a few twelve year old "official" linesman last year. These poor kids are scared shitless by aggressive crowds and often make poor decisions as a result of it. Its not their fault, as they're trying their best. Its the fault of the amatuer league for putting them in there. The league should be aiming at uni students who need the extra cash and can take a bit of stick. I feel that they arent really making enough effort in this area. Advertise at uni's, offer incentives, surely they can attract more then a handful of grandads and a couple of kids???

[kramerica]

We are in discussions with a sunday team to provide exactly that. Both teams will be able to say they have gone out of their wat to remove some perception of bias.

In all the games I played this year, I would say only one I thought was a cheat. Wanderers guy was rubbish, but he was rubbish both ways. Most referees were poor but didn't think they were cheats, just poor.

I like this idea, thumbs up to iggies, my just suggest the same to the club I am involved with.

[tickets4cheese]

There are some issues regarding the Amatuer League Referees association that need ironing out. There was one person last season, who was a qualified referee with the federation and wanted to offer his services. He already had a uniform, but the association wanted to charge him $130(think that was the fee) just to referee. What for? He has a uniform, he has the expertise, yet we push him away with a silly joining fee he has already paid to the FFA. If they want to attract more refs, drop the silly fee with the money they have in the bank. Im sure if it was free, or alot cheaper to join, you would think more people would offer there services.

I also noticed a few twelve year old "official" linesman last year. These poor kids are scared shitless by aggressive crowds and often make poor decisions as a result of it. Its not their fault, as they're trying their best. Its the fault of the amatuer league for putting them in there. The league should be aiming at uni students who need the extra cash and can take a bit of stick. I feel that they arent really making enough effort in this area. Advertise at uni's, offer incentives, surely they can attract more then a handful of grandads and a couple of kids???

What on earth are they charging refs a fee for to do a job everyone hates. there's no way i'd ref a game (mainly coz i'd be crap at it) for free let alone if i had to pay a fee for the honour.

scrap the fee altogether!!

[Aldo Serena]

Aldo, suggestion, why not propose two or three club refs at your club and a roster system to ref a saturday game, that way you can all have your sundays off.

It's not about having a day off on the Sunday - our guys that have done the club ref course are doing it to assist our club, and it is a way for them to stay involved if they are not playing.

Kudos to clubs like Iggies that are trying to do something different.

[Redders]

There are some issues regarding the Amatuer League Referees association that need ironing out. There was one person last season, who was a qualified referee with the federation and wanted to offer his services. He already had a uniform, but the association wanted to charge him $130(think that was the fee) just to referee. What for? He has a uniform, he has the expertise, yet we push him away with a silly joining fee he has already paid to the FFA. If they want to attract more refs, drop the silly fee with the money they have in the bank. Im sure if it was free, or alot cheaper to join, you would think more people would offer there services.

I also noticed a few twelve year old "official" linesman last year. These poor kids are scared shitless by aggressive crowds and often make poor decisions as a result of it. Its not their fault, as they're trying their best. Its the fault of the amatuer league for putting them in there. The league should be aiming at uni students who need the extra cash and can take a bit of stick. I feel that they arent really making enough effort in this area. Advertise at uni's, offer incentives, surely they can attract more then a handful of grandads and a couple of kids???

What on earth are they charging refs a fee for to do a job everyone hates. there's no way i'd ref a game (mainly coz i'd be crap at it) for free let alone if i had to pay a fee for the honour.

scrap the fee altogether!!

The fee is mainly for uniform and training i think. I was thinking about joining as i will be able to run next year, just not play. The fee, although its not that much ,shouldnt be there if they're genuinely trying to attract refs. I wont be joining for $130, I think i'll just enjoy the game instead.

[tickets4cheese]

There are some issues regarding the Amatuer League Referees association that need ironing out. There was one person last season, who was a qualified referee with the federation and wanted to offer his services. He already had a uniform, but the association wanted to charge him $130(think that was the fee) just to referee. What for? He has a uniform, he has the expertise, yet we push him away with a silly joining fee he has already paid to the FFA. If they want to attract more refs, drop the silly fee with the money they have in the bank. Im sure if it was free, or alot cheaper to join, you would think more people would offer there services.

I also noticed a few twelve year old "official" linesman last year. These poor kids are scared shitless by aggressive crowds and often make poor decisions as a result of it. Its not their fault, as they're trying their best. Its the fault of the amatuer league for putting them in there. The league should be aiming at uni students who need the extra cash and can take a bit of stick. I feel that they arent really making enough effort in this area. Advertise at uni's, offer incentives, surely they can attract more then a handful of grandads and a couple of kids???

What on earth are they charging refs a fee for to do a job everyone hates. there's no way i'd ref a game (mainly coz i'd be crap at it) for free let alone if i had to pay a fee for the honour.

scrap the fee altogether!!

The fee is mainly for uniform and training i think. I was thinking about joining as i will be able to run next year, just not play. The fee, although its not that much ,shouldnt be there if they're genuinely trying to attract refs. I wont be joining for $130, I think i'll just enjoy the game instead.

i agree completely, if you're desperately trying to attract ref's (which the league is) how can you say "please come ref, we really really really really need you but it will cost you $130." surely that $130 per ref could be partially if not totally absorbed in the fees clubs already pay.

[gunner_59]

In regard to reder's post...There are some issues regarding the Amatuer League Referees association that need ironing out. There was one person last season, who was a qualified referee with the federation and wanted to offer his services. He already had a uniform, but the association wanted to charge him $130(think that was the fee) just to referee. What for? He has a uniform, he has the expertise, yet we push him away with a silly joining fee he has already paid to the FFA. If they want to attract more refs, drop the silly fee with the money they have in the bank. Im sure if it was free, or alot cheaper to join, you would think more people would offer there services. .........

This is not entirely accurate..... if a referee is registered member of FFSA he can come and join the Amateur refs for $20. This has been an initiative of the Amateur ref body to allow refs from any other association to join. They feel it's not fair for a ref to pay full fees to more than one body. So either this ref didn't ask or he is not actually an FFSA registered ref this year. Oh and by the way.. the FFSA won't have a bar of reciprocating this arrangement. They are adamant that you pay their full fee (which is around the $150 mark). Refs joining the Amateur body only need to pay $75 if they wish. The rest is voluntary eg $20 for a FIFA rule book, $35 for the social club fund (which entitles the ref AND their partner to attend the end of year dinner/presentation night for free).

[Redders]

In regard to reder's post...There are some issues regarding the Amatuer League Referees association that need ironing out. There was one person last season, who was a qualified referee with the federation and wanted to offer his services. He already had a uniform, but the association wanted to charge him $130(think that was the fee) just to referee. What for? He has a uniform, he has the expertise, yet we push him away with a silly joining fee he has already paid to the FFA. If they want to attract more refs, drop the silly fee with the money they have in the bank. Im sure if it was free, or alot cheaper to join, you would think more people would offer there services. .........

This is not entirely accurate..... if a referee is registered member of FFSA he can come and join the Amateur refs for $20. This has been an initiative of the Amateur ref body to allow refs from any other association to join. They feel it's not fair for a ref to pay full fees to more than one body. So either this ref didn't ask or he is not actually an FFSA registered ref this year. Oh and by the way.. the FFSA won't have a bar of reciprocating this arrangement. They are adamant that you pay their full fee (which is around the $150 mark). Refs joining the Amateur body only need to pay $75 if they wish. The rest is voluntary eg $20 for a FIFA rule book, $35 for the social club fund (which entitles the ref AND their partner to attend the end of year dinner/presentation night for free).

ah ok thanks for clearing that up. So he must of been registered a season before. Still i find this stupid.

[To Mati]

yeah seems a little bit silly.

almost like an internet scam... send us $100 and we will guarantee you next weeks x lotto numbers.

[swannsong]

In regard to reder's post...There are some issues regarding the Amatuer League Referees association that need ironing out. There was one person last season, who was a qualified referee with the federation and wanted to offer his services. He already had a uniform, but the association wanted to charge him $130(think that was the fee) just to referee. What for? He has a uniform, he has the expertise, yet we push him away with a silly joining fee he has already paid to the FFA. If they want to attract more refs, drop the silly fee with the money they have in the bank. Im sure if it was free, or alot cheaper to join, you would think more people would offer there services. .........

This is not entirely accurate..... if a referee is registered member of FFSA he can come and join the Amateur refs for $20. This has been an initiative of the Amateur ref body to allow refs from any other association to join. They feel it's not fair for a ref to pay full fees to more than one body. So either this ref didn't ask or he is not actually an FFSA registered ref this year. Oh and by the way.. the FFSA won't have a bar of reciprocating this arrangement. They are adamant that you pay their full fee (which is around the $150 mark). Refs joining the Amateur body only need to pay $75 if they wish. The rest is voluntary eg $20 for a FIFA rule book, $35 for the social club fund (which entitles the ref AND their partner to attend the end of year dinner/presentation night for free).

ah ok thanks for clearing that up. So he must of been registered a season before. Still i find this stupid.

I don't understand what you find stupid....a $20 registration fee (maybe covers insurance ?)....if a peson is refereeing in both Associations then I'm sure they will easily recover tha $20 (and some) in a weekends work.

[Redders]

In regard to reder's post...There are some issues regarding the Amatuer League Referees association that need ironing out. There was one person last season, who was a qualified referee with the federation and wanted to offer his services. He already had a uniform, but the association wanted to charge him $130(think that was the fee) just to referee. What for? He has a uniform, he has the expertise, yet we push him away with a silly joining fee he has already paid to the FFA. If they want to attract more refs, drop the silly fee with the money they have in the bank. Im sure if it was free, or alot cheaper to join, you would think more people would offer there services. .........

This is not entirely accurate..... if a referee is registered member of FFSA he can come and join the Amateur refs for $20. This has been an initiative of the Amateur ref body to allow refs from any other association to join. They feel it's not fair for a ref to pay full fees to more than one body. So either this ref didn't ask or he is not actually an FFSA registered ref this year. Oh and by the way.. the FFSA won't have a bar of reciprocating this arrangement. They are adamant that you pay their full fee (which is around the $150 mark). Refs joining the Amateur body only need to pay $75 if they wish. The rest is voluntary eg $20 for a FIFA rule book, $35 for the social club fund (which entitles the ref AND their partner to attend the end of year dinner/presentation night for free).

ah ok thanks for clearing that up. So he must of been registered a season before. Still i find this stupid.

I don't understand what you find stupid....a $20 registration fee (maybe covers insurance ?)....if a peson is refereeing in both Associations then I'm sure they will easily recover tha $20 (and some) in a weekends work.

I guess its not stupid. What i meant to say was that paying $150 a year to Ref for the FFSA is a bit steep. But on 2nd thoughts you probably pay that much to play each season, i'd know which one id rather do.

I went for my level 5 last year cost me $60 by memory. To actually referee an amatuer league game you need your Level 4 so theres probably $60+ more. Then joining Amatuer League Association $75, then if you want a rule book theres another $20. $215+ before youve even reffed a game.

Is the Amatuer League Referee Association registration fee charged annually aswell?
How much do the refs get paid per Amatuer League game?

[tickets4cheese]

In regard to reder's post...There are some issues regarding the Amatuer League Referees association that need ironing out. There was one person last season, who was a qualified referee with the federation and wanted to offer his services. He already had a uniform, but the association wanted to charge him $130(think that was the fee) just to referee. What for? He has a uniform, he has the expertise, yet we push him away with a silly joining fee he has already paid to the FFA. If they want to attract more refs, drop the silly fee with the money they have in the bank. Im sure if it was free, or alot cheaper to join, you would think more people would offer there services. .........

This is not entirely accurate..... if a referee is registered member of FFSA he can come and join the Amateur refs for $20. This has been an initiative of the Amateur ref body to allow refs from any other association to join. They feel it's not fair for a ref to pay full fees to more than one body. So either this ref didn't ask or he is not actually an FFSA registered ref this year. Oh and by the way.. the FFSA won't have a bar of reciprocating this arrangement. They are adamant that you pay their full fee (which is around the $150 mark). Refs joining the Amateur body only need to pay $75 if they wish. The rest is voluntary eg $20 for a FIFA rule book, $35 for the social club fund (which entitles the ref AND their partner to attend the end of year dinner/presentation night for free).

that explains why most ref's don't know the rules, coz none of them buy the book.