FFSA league

[Rodney]

Quote -I for one dont want to pay a levy to ensure that a guy at Metro Stars earns $350 pw or that a U14 kid from Adelaide City has 2 tracksuits, shorts, polo top etc etc

I dont think the FFSA levy (Im assuming thats what your talking about) would be used for these things would it?

But yes a balanced view there Jay

[nugget66]

Believe it or not, personally I would love to see the unification of soccer in this state & country however not at the expense of our Association or League.


I just hate these IMBICILES that come on here with personal agendas spreading lies regarding our Association,

I have said certainly things can improve,

but I believe the people who have given there time some over 30 years for the love,

to build what we've got deserve a bit more respect than what Guus_H, Bill Baily & Alex C. give them!!!

so I certainly don't apologize for any abuse given !

[Jay Walking]

Quote -I for one dont want to pay a levy to ensure that a guy at Metro Stars earns $350 pw or that a U14 kid from Adelaide City has 2 tracksuits, shorts, polo top etc etc

I dont think the FFSA levy (Im assuming thats what your talking about) would be used for these things would it?

But yes a balanced view there Jay

This is what the opinion of some people is though Rodney. This is something the FFSA would need to address before the SAASL would consider coming under the umbrella. I'm sure that isn't what the money is intended for and I hope it isn't as FFSA registered players are currently playing that levy.

I meant no offence to Metros or City either. Sorry Paul Merson

[kramerica]

Another President throws his hat into the ring.

I think one problem is that this is becoming to much of an us v's them situation and people with personal agendas are attacking others based on their own circumstance.

Yes, I have spoken with the FFSA in regards to their new league, in fact I spoke with Mr Carter so at the moment their is nobody higher. Before all the Amatuer clubs have a go at me I think it is important to gain all the facts so that I can take that to my committee and we can make a decision on what is best for the our club.

Currently, Ingle Farm wouldn't move to the FFSA based on the information they have provided us. At the moment they are still trying to get their resources and plans together. I think they may stuggle to have the competition up and running this season but they are going to push ahead.

The SAASL which I have been involved in now for 8 years is a fairly well run organisation. Yes its Amatuer because we play in an Amatuer competition. There are things that can be improved upon but in my time, I wouldn't be all that critical of the league. Bill, Alex, Bob, Denise, Tony and co work very very hard and whilst some decisions upset some clubs, they do try to act in the leagues best interest. I find it funny that we blame the league for the problems of clubs behaviour but never the actual club or individual. A lot of the behaviour I read on here wouldn't be tolerated at clubs like mine or Elizabeth Downs. We wouldn't wait for the league to ban players, we would simply tell that player to get lost which we have done.

Where the stumbling block is as far as I can see isn't what's in the SAASL's bank account. The FFSA are happy to leave that but what they want to do is introduce a tariff to all registered players in the Amatuer competition. This money would be used for junior development. I think that the FFSA has a bad reputation due to the old SASF and the SAASL are worried that the money raised wouldn't be used for that purpose. I think the SAASL also find it strange that they would have to pay equal amounts to FFSA clubs for development despite the fact that they may never see the benefits of that money. We get lots of players come through the Federation system that play for our club. We also get alot that come through from EDJSA and that have never played the game before. The Federation system doesn't have a team currently for these people to play in and there in lies part of the problem.

Not only that, when you read about what some Federation players are getting paid, many realise that some of this money is raised by charging juniors a lot of money. I for one dont want to pay a levy to ensure that a guy at Metro Stars earns $350 pw or that a U14 kid from Adelaide City has 2 tracksuits, shorts, polo top etc etc. I have nothing against Federation clubs and watch Para Hills play 5-6 times a year. I understand it is expensive to run these clubs but I dont think that myself, a guy who is playing for fitness and social reasons should have to find even more money to play the game. Adelaide United and the Socceroos get enough of my money already.

The league is profitable and most SAASL aren't upset about that fact. Most see it as a badge of honour as they are the ones who have helped create that profit.

Marooned and Lefty, send me a PM if you want to know more about the discussions with the FFSA. I do think that eventually it would be best if we are under the one umbrella. I dont think that the SAASL should just roll over because if money does become tight, who will become the ugly step sister, the Amatuer clubs, not the Federation clubs.

You have an opinion, we/I read it. Now I and others on this forum have an opinion. Nugget, Swansong and others that are Nieve. The SAASL is corrupt/ameteurs, whatever you believe.

There is a major problem at the moment. What do you think, no amateur clubs are paying players????? You think my boy, isn't suffering just because I play amateurs, at least in the FFSA, they may not be financially viable, but there priorities are in the right place (juniors). What the F is the amateur priority, I will tell you, making it affordable???????????? Seirously, what is important to you, paying less or the development of juniors in the state, or if you get injured, getting something for it (F the current SAASL insurance, its a waste of money). If the leagues are not one, people will/have taken advantage of this, at the expense of others. What is the SAASL doing about it? F all, why? It shows major flaws in there current seperation. Who suffers us the clubs.

Jay Walking You seem like a reasonable guy, and you seem to make some sense, but the problems are there and they need to be fixed.

Swansong See you on the 15th, cause I will be there and I will put my point across, I assure you, you will work out who I am.

SAASL, I know, doing the best they can, but unfortunatley, accept what is the inevatable, ONE F***ING LEAGUE, ONE UMBRELLA.

[gunner_59]

Power04 stated...
"There is a major problem at the moment. What do you think, no amateur clubs are paying players????? You think my boy, isn't suffering just because I play amateurs, at least in the FFSA, they may not be financially viable, but there priorities are in the right place (juniors). What the F is the amateur priority, I will tell you, making it affordable???????????? Seirously, what is important to you, paying less or the development of juniors in the state, or if you get injured, getting something for it (F the current SAASL insurance, its a waste of money). If the leagues are not one, people will/have taken advantage of this, at the expense of others. What is the SAASL doing about it? F all, why? It shows major flaws in there current seperation. Who suffers us the clubs."

Sorry Power04.... but I can't see how one umbrella can accommodate everyone. The Amateur League was never set up for junior development ... it's about giving an entry point to whoever (adult age) wants to participate in the game of the masses. The SAASL has allowed thousands and thousands of members in our state be part of a soccer playing community. Who knows how many clubs have formed, disbanded, re-formed over the years. eg. Colo Colo, Broadmeadows, Calabria, Adelaide Portuguese, Benestare Bears, RAAF, Kilkenny Ramblers, etc. Everyone needs to keep in mind that historically there are clubs which participated in the lower divisions BECAUSE of the philosophy of the Amateur League. Now that there is an explosion of junior participation, the SAASL is being viewed as the most capable sporting body of helping to manage this. If they weren't, why on Earth would Elizabeth Districts and Southern Districts Junior Associations amalgamate with them instead of the FFSA????????
And I wish many of the people on this forum would stop making generalist claims about the insurance benefits of one association over the other. Someone should sit down and look over the fine print... I bet they are not too dissimilar. They would both only give out a token payment. Anyway... anyone playing ANY sport should look at getting PROPER insurance cover where their livelihoods are FULLY covered. You pay for what you get!!

[swannsong]

You have an opinion, we/I read it. Now I and others on this forum have an opinion. Nugget, Swansong and others that are Nieve. The SAASL is corrupt/ameteurs, whatever you believe.

There is a major problem at the moment. What do you think, no amateur clubs are paying players????? You think my boy, isn't suffering just because I play amateurs, at least in the FFSA, they may not be financially viable, but there priorities are in the right place (juniors). What the F is the amateur priority, I will tell you, making it affordable???????????? Seirously, what is important to you, paying less or the development of juniors in the state, or if you get injured, getting something for it (F the current SAASL insurance, its a waste of money). If the leagues are not one, people will/have taken advantage of this, at the expense of others. What is the SAASL doing about it? F all, why? It shows major flaws in there current seperation. Who suffers us the clubs.

Jay Walking You seem like a reasonable guy, and you seem to make some sense, but the problems are there and they need to be fixed.

Swansong See you on the 15th, cause I will be there and I will put my point across, I assure you, you will work out who I am.

SAASL, I know, doing the best they can, but unfortunatley, accept what is the inevatable, ONE F***ING LEAGUE, ONE UMBRELLA.

Where have you been hiding, Amateurs teams that can afford to, have been reimbursing players since I can remember.
I had watched several good players move from the club I was playing for ( Elizabeth Downs) to get a bit of beer and travel money at other clubs!
If you look at the current SAASL Insurance and the FFSA insurance the payout is almost identical ($200 over 5 weeks = ? as opposed to $250 over 4 weeks = ?)
The FFSA also will charge their Juniors the same insurance levy (to cover loss of income ?) this could be seen as propping up the Senior insurance.
Successful Amateur Clubs like Elizabeth Vale, Parafield Gardens, Ingle Farm, Elizabeth Downs, Tea Tree Gully etc. all have excellent Junior (and some Womens) setups. Clubs without juniors seem to struggle in the long run. Two of the largest, most successful junior Associations have joined with the SAASL, so why you think the juniors are not being looked after I don't know ? They more so than anyone else are aiming to make Junior Football affordable !
Why is your boy suffering just because you play Amateurs, I can't see the connection ?
As for accusations of corruption, without evidence, people are treading very close to slander.
There have been certain statements on here that are totally false and laden with innuendo.
And they DO want to be under one umbrella, but an umbrella is useless if it is full of holes, or if it hasn't been opened up to see who can fit under it or whether the fabric will keep out the rain ?
I think you will find the 15th. most interesting !

Oh. and it's naive (not Nieve).
Oh, and I should learn to type faster than gunner_59 ?

[kramerica]

Only my opinion. Great clubs well done to you all.

SAASL & FFSA Metro League only one will be triumphant, your a fool if you believe otherwise.

Spell check that one Swansong.

[DOC]

lets be honest, saasl is not perfect, no league is, people are still complaining in the EPL, but with this new league mentioned it may force saasl to fix up the few things they need to to make the league run a bit smoother and better, they have savede the money for a rainy day and i think now is the time to spend some wisely to show FFSA they mean business

[swannsong]

Only my opinion. Great clubs well done to you all.

SAASL & FFSA Metro League only one will be triumphant, your a fool if you believe otherwise.

Spell check that one Swansong.

It's swannsong !

[kramerica]

Oh Fuck, I spelt your name wrong Swannsong.

Don't rub it in.

[gunner_59]

Sorry swannsong.... will slow down my typing!!!!

Actually... the other point worth raising is that the term 'Amateur' really has little relevance in the 21st Century. Back when the SAASL was formed, there was probably still a distinction between amateur and prefessional status in every sport. Actually, it would be interesting to research and find out when athletes with a 'professional' status were allowed in to the Olympics.
Anyway..... the comments that people in this forum are making about the Amateur League are being based on the presumption of their name ... perhaps its time for the Amateur League to take out the word amateur...
Oh... and by the way, what's the FFSA's excuse for their amateurish behaviour??

[swannsong]

Sorry swannsong.... will slow down my typing!!!!

Actually... the other point worth raising is that the term 'Amateur' really has little relevance in the 21st Century. Back when the SAASL was formed, there was probably still a distinction between amateur and prefessional status in every sport. Actually, it would be interesting to research and find out when athletes with a 'professional' status were allowed in to the Olympics.
Anyway..... the comments that people in this forum are making about the Amateur League are being based on the presumption of their name ... perhaps its time for the Amateur League to take out the word amateur...
Oh... and by the way, what's the FFSA's excuse for their amateurish behaviour??

Just a thought, another point that SAASL might consider is in line with FFA removing "soccer" from their title and replace it with a new title incorporating "football" ?

[redfred]

stick to afl power 04, anyone using a name like that must be a wise football (SOCCER) person.

[kramerica]

stick to afl power 04, anyone using a name like that must be a wise football (SOCCER) person.

I will comment on whatever I wish. For you the simpleton, I have fooled you with my alias. You think you know more than me.

[Knight7]

This debate seems to be on one side, people mostly people from the Saturday League who are for the most part "unknown" who are upset with SAASL and people from the Sunday league who are "known" and whilst not completely happy with the SAASL are happy enough to stay.

Don't know why Saturday sides are so upset???

[BeNatural]

is it true Aldo, that your club might be looking for a new ground if you dont join the metro league as per the main club who runs the facility request?

At this point, we haven't made any decisions whatsoever. How can you make a decision when you don't have all the facts?? Once the FFSA roll out the blueprint, we will make a decision in the best interests of MSSC Blue Eagles.

By the way, I would be interested to see where your rumour came from - you can PM me if you don't want to reveal it publicly.

I didnt mean to stir the pot with you! just thought id make it mention, as your Amateur clubs position with a link with a Fed Club even if its only grounds, will be similar to other clubs. My mate is on the Mens standing committee and it was mentioned so i commented.

you would find Fed clubs are supportive of the ffsa starting an "amateur" competition.

I will tell you what will happen,

Clubs from the lower divisions on Sat and Sun will join the ffsa. This would mean they would be in Div 1 and Div 2. This competition would be the only sanctioned FIFA, AFC and FFA Amateur competition in SA. Where do you think players will eventually go to in the next 2-3 years...

These clubs would have a jump start ahead of most other clubs who remain with the non-FIFA sanctioned competition. This will have an impact on that competition done the track, a main issue will be referees, no referees will be accredited by the FFA in that non sanctioned competition.

But i reckon you will see clubs like Salisbury Villa, Adelaide Villa, Angle Vale, Unley utd, Adelaide Uni, Southern Beakers, Flinders, all most of the Hills based clubs such as Handorf, Stirling, Mount Barker (because AHJSA is linked with ffsa now), teams like those in the lower divisions jumping at the chance to take a spot in a higher division in an sanctioned competition then they currently play in.

Look at Gawler and Toros, were both lower Amateur league clubs, and jumped at the chance to be in State League when the ffsa had 4 new spots available back 3 years ago. now they are healthy clubs because they are playing in higher divisions.

[A Mature League]

If the FFSA is already short of referees they will need referees who currently do FFSA and SAASL games to cross over as well.
My belief is this would not happen en masse. Therefore if the FFSA wanted to use SAASL aligned referees they would have to recognize their qualifications....otherwise they will be short staffed. Saying referees will not be accredited unless in an FFA sanctioned league is like saying, that if you don't work for Pro-Fix your not a qualified auto repairer so you can't work for another auto company....not sure how that will sit legally.
Plus, the FFSA haven't communicated with referees for nearly 6 months ?
As for higher divisions, they will only be higher in number, not standard.
Gawler is a growing area and had a solid junior set-up, something that many Amateur sides lack. I don't know Toros's situation so I can't comment on them.
On the opposite side you have teams like Olympic and Noarlunga who are struggling financially, so FFSA is not all roses.
Nice of you to try and nominate which clubs might jump into the FFSA life raft.
Also, nice of you to tell us what WILL happen, I still believe there needs to be some open conversation between the FFSA and SAASL, the board of FFSA seems to have closed off all communication lines at this stage.
It doesn't appear to be working in NSW so SA should re-think their approach to this situation for the sake of Football in this state !

[DOC]

its sort of like the cricket in india with the ICL and the IPL, the ICL isn't sanctioned and players cannot play in any competition which is sanctioned by the governing body the ICC, when you put it to what we are talking about the FFSA metro league will give referees full credentials and the league will be recognised by the FFSA, FFA, AFC and FIFA, while the SAASL will remain a rebel league independant to everyone and there will be a slow drain of players and sponsors as people will not want to be associated with the unsolicited league...
just one way of looking at the situation
so if it turns out like this, it may be better for teams, no matter what there links to the SAASL, to jump ship in order to be in the right sactioned league...

[swannsong]

its sort of like the cricket in india with the ICL and the IPL, the ICL isn't sanctioned and players cannot play in any competition which is sanctioned by the governing body the ICC, when you put it to what we are talking about the FFSA metro league will give referees full credentials and the league will be recognised by the FFSA, FFA, AFC and FIFA, while the SAASL will remain a rebel league independant to everyone and there will be a slow drain of players and sponsors as people will not want to be associated with the unsolicited league...
just one way of looking at the situation
so if it turns out like this, it may be better for teams, no matter what there links to the SAASL, to jump ship in order to be in the right sactioned league...

Wasn't One Day Cricket a rebel tournament to start with, the ICC or ICB soon welcomed them back in ?

How come the FFSA couldn't get a sponsor for the Cup this year, first time in the Federations history .
FFSA personnel has changed markedly since talks between them and SAASL began 5 years ago disrupting any continuity.
It's a matter of knowing which ship is sinking, everyone on here proclaims how good the SAASL bank balance is, but how many FFSA clubs know what FFSA financial position is.....might require a Freedom Of Information act to get that ?
The thing is, you should want to do what's best for football, not what's best for a 5 person board.
Sure what you FFSA backers are saying might happen....but it shouldn't have to.
As a Councillor for the City of Onkaparinga we take concepts out to the community and workshop ideas with them, these ideas are then considered, added to etc. and then brought back to the community for further consultation etc.....there needs to be more of this......
Remember that currently the SAASL represent nearly two thirds of participating footballers in SA, FFSA needs to be talking to them, not dictating to them !

[DOC]

its sort of like the cricket in india with the ICL and the IPL, the ICL isn't sanctioned and players cannot play in any competition which is sanctioned by the governing body the ICC, when you put it to what we are talking about the FFSA metro league will give referees full credentials and the league will be recognised by the FFSA, FFA, AFC and FIFA, while the SAASL will remain a rebel league independant to everyone and there will be a slow drain of players and sponsors as people will not want to be associated with the unsolicited league...
just one way of looking at the situation
so if it turns out like this, it may be better for teams, no matter what there links to the SAASL, to jump ship in order to be in the right sactioned league...

Wasn't One Day Cricket a rebel tournament to start with, the ICC or ICB soon welcomed them back in ?

How come the FFSA couldn't get a sponsor for the Cup this year, first time in the Federations history .
FFSA personnel has changed markedly since talks between them and SAASL began 5 years ago disrupting any continuity.
It's a matter of knowing which ship is sinking, everyone on here proclaims how good the SAASL bank balance is, but how many FFSA clubs know what FFSA financial position is.....might require a Freedom Of Information act to get that ?
The thing is, you should want to do what's best for football, not what's best for a 5 person board.
Sure what you FFSA backers are saying might happen....but it shouldn't have to.
As a Councillor for the City of Onkaparinga we take concepts out to the community and workshop ideas with them, these ideas are then considered, added to etc. and then brought back to the community for further consultation etc.....there needs to be more of this......
Remember that currently the SAASL represent nearly two thirds of participating footballers in SA, FFSA needs to be talking to them, not dictating to them !

people do say the SAASL board has the money, and if they do i think its time to invest into the league and clubs, wisely and on what needed, to secure the longevity of the league... the best thing for sa football is everything as a happy family under one banner, but for this to happen FFSA needs to come out and say where its at and what they intend to do with SAASL if the almalgamate... SAASL should be run under the FFSA banner but as its own department and the FFSA has no real say in what goes on, this is determined by the peole in charge of the SAASL, basically the same as is now but under the national banner...

[DOC]

hope that makes sense swannsong... just using the cricket as an example as how something can be outlwaed and as something which can have a detrimental effect on the game...

[swannsong]

Cheers DOC !

Here's a challenge to Michael Carter...

The 2008 Amateur League seasons have drawn to a close and many Clubs will be holding their respective AGMs, electing their committees, presidents, chairpersons, secretaries etc.
These new committees, presidents, secretaries etc will have to make important decisions to make about their Clubs futures for 2009 and beyond.
How about letting some of these Clubs and members know why you are taking, or have taken, a non-negotiable stand on talks (if any are happenning) with the SAASL ?
How will this stance benefit these Amateur clubs and Football in SA and ultimately Australia, in general ?
How FFSA are situated financially after 5 years in operation and FFSA's 5 year budget projections, with or without SAASL ?
What representation any member Clubs will have in future directions of FFSA ?
Referees in SA organised themselves into a loose body but FFSA are not seen to be communicating with them, why ?
What is the projected FFSA fee structures for the next 5 seasons.
I'm sure there are many more question, but answers to these would be a reasonable start.

[Southampton #7]

This debate seems to be on one side, people mostly people from the Saturday League who are for the most part "unknown" who are upset with SAASL and people from the Sunday league who are "known" and whilst not completely happy with the SAASL are happy enough to stay.

Don't know why Saturday sides are so upset???

which clubs?

[vigilante]

would the FFSA amateur league run on both saturday and sundays? the saturday sides considering the jump would certainly want to find out before doing so

[Wraith]

Yes, both Saturday and Sunday.

[Knight7]

I'm certain that the large majority of Amateur Clubs would welcome a representative from the FFSA to address a meeting but I'm equally as certain that no-one from the FFSA has contacted our club. Just another example of poor Management

When all is said and done, I believe the more established Amateur Teams just don't trust the management of the FFSA given their track record

[TheWingBack]

I think a better question for the moment is what has happened to the meetings proposed by the FFSA to discuss and plan the new Metro League for 2009? Time is running out as clubs prepare for the off-season break and decisions for next season are being made now. Some teams will be starting their pre-season in just 3 months time. I just can't see the reality of a Metro League next year the way things are going, or maybe this is all a bluff by the FFSA to bring the SAASL back to the table.

Who knows but all this guessing and wondering doesn't do the amateur league or teams any good whatsoever.

[Aldo Serena]

Excellent points made by Jay - as others have said, it is good to see a President/Chairman of an SAASL club keeping an open mind about the Metro League and the future direction of the SAASL. I am a former President of MSSC Blue Eagles, and although not on the committee officially anymore, I am still involved with the general going-ons of the club.

First of all, the SAASL is not perfect. We have all had disciplinary hearings not go our way, or disputed an opposition players' eligibility and not had a result go our own way, but the majority of the time the League gets it right. Remember, the work done by Bill, Alex, Bob and co. is all voluntary and most things flow pretty smoothly down at Grange. This is evidenced by the strength of the competition in terms of numbers and dollars in the bank. Therefore, so what if the League committee has a Xmas party funded by the League itself?

Secondly, the FFSA have not put any effort into enticing teams across to the new Metro League. It is early October and there has not been any information in regards to fees, insurance, competition structure, etc, etc delivered to the clubs. If the FFSA are serious about getting the new competition off the ground, why have they not released any information?

Insurance cover comes down to cost. I am not a huge fan of the Accident Fund, but it has done the job to date. I remember a few years back when the SAASL floated the idea of QBE underwriting the league's insurance to the clubs - from memory it was going to be double the cost of the Accident Fund, but the cover was excellent. The clubs voted against the idea due to the cost - you can't blame the SAASL for that!

Finally, I would personally like to see soccer united under one body in this state - deep down we all know it makes sense. However, I agree that the money currently held by the SAASL should be kept in trust for amateur soccer.

Jay, I wouldn't mind discussing things further with you so I may send you a PM later with some details.

[BeNatural]

I'm certain that the large majority of Amateur Clubs would welcome a representative from the FFSA to address a meeting but I'm equally as certain that no-one from the FFSA has contacted our club. Just another example of poor Management

When all is said and done, I believe the more established Amateur Teams just don't trust the management of the FFSA given their track record

I dont think it would be right for the FFSA to use the contacts of amateur clubs and contact them personally to meet with them, i think by doing that, that would not be professional.

I would suspect the FFSA would hold an open forum night and also post information on their website or in the paper and then take any questions rather then go behind the baks of saasl and try and steal their clubs, they would prefer for clubs to make their own minds up from the information they are provided.

[BeNatural]

Finally, I would personally like to see soccer united under one body in this state - deep down we all know it makes sense. However, I agree that the money currently held by the SAASL should be kept in trust for amateur soccer.

Im not sure if you are aware, or have been made aware by Blue Eagles fed team about the situation with the proposal put forward by the FFSA to the SAASL.

This is what us clubs were told at a ffsa meeting back in April.

The proposal from the last 3 years to the saasl was:

- Join the FFSA as the "Amateur" branch.
- Saasl remain in control of the Competition itself.
- money from saasl put into a trust, the ffsa does not touch.
- Amatuer Standing Committee (ASC) set up. This committee makes recommendation to the FFSA baord on "Amateur" league issues. ffsa board has the final approval (which by them will proabbly feature some ASC members).
- ASC decide where the trust money should be used (eg projects)
- each club has one vote for ffsa board elections.
- cheaper insurance cost, better insurance cover, (no public liability cost or directors insurance to the clubs)


the Answer, was No, so the concern about the current saasl money was not an issue.
so the FFSA had no choice but to set up its own competition.