SAWSA meeting request!

[AWA]

Just got this from the Cumby delegate....makes sense....all should meet!

Dear Wendy,

Cumberland United Women’s Football Club is preparing a detailed response from the full committee on the changes advised by SAWSA.

A summary of our view is below.

CUWFC opposes the disbandment of the Reserves Division.
SAWSA using feedback from 2007 as part justification for a substantial alteration to the Reserves is inappropriate, and it appears to have been taken out of context with regard to CUWFC’s reason for such feedback in 2007.
Adequate alteration to the competition was achieved with a Premier League Club now not having to field a Reserves team.
CUWFC did not suggest or support any attempt at disbanding the Reserves league.

CUWFC is unaware of any Premier Club or non Premier Club that wishes to abolish the Reserves League.
The Memorandum advises that the policy of Premier teams not having a Div 1 side will continue.
The intention is to make the Div 1 league the second strongest league next to Premiers.
This would mean a player developed by a club who is not quite ready for Premier League would need to leave a Premier club for playing experience in the second standard league. They would then need to leave this club again to secure a Premier position unless their club went top and was promoted.
CUWFC deems this inappropriate strategy for player development from both a player and club perspective.

The reality is that nearly all Premier League teams will now have a Div 2 or Div 3 side to develop and play their non selected Premier players.
If this league consists of say 10 teams with for argument sake 5 Premier league teams finishing ahead of the others will the 6th team be promoted to Div 1 as a Prem team can’t have a Div 1 side?
CUWFC considers this an inappropriate structure.

CUWFC considers the commitment to Western Districts Toros who were assured of 2 years in Premiers should be honoured.
CUWFC also considers that a Div 1 side who were under the clear and accurate impression they were playing for the right to enter Premier league should also have that opportunity in 2009.

CUWFC position is that such a major alteration to the structure of Women’s soccer should have been directly presented to the Clubs for comment and endorsement before a decision occurred.
Time should have been allocated for implementation of such radical changes to the Reserves and other leagues.

CUWFC requests that a Delegates and Premier League coaches meeting be called urgently to discuss these issues.

Best regards

Clay Glen
Delegate CUWFC

p. 08 83636999
m. 0418 816 015

[pvfc]

So lets all get behind this if you support his stance here.
Send replies, no matter how brief, and make sure that FFSA and SAWSA are included in your reply.

Well done Clay - now lets get everyone who has been so vocal on here backing up some positive action

[adelaidepie]

Dear Clay,

I could not agree more with what you have written and I believe all teams from Div 4 to premier leageu should write / phone and fax sawsa requesting a meeting and I would cc a copy to the ffsa.

Why can't this forum start a petition and or a call for which all clubs post a message calling for an urgent meeting?

Dear Wendy

I would here by like to call for a special meeting to discuss the disbandment of the premier league reserve division, the treatment of toros and the missed opportunity for the top div 1 team to be promoted.
I would also like to seek clarification on how sawsa or ffsa propose to deal with promotion and relegation from now on taking into account no premier league team can field a team above div 2.
What will happen to players who are coming back from injury or may need to go down due to form or someone reason?
Will they now be allowed to drop 2 to 3 divisions without any set rules which currently apply or do clubs now have to have a squad of 20 players to cover injury form loss and hope the 'reserve / bench players' put up with getting minimal time on the pitch because of the new set up?

Just a couple of thoughts on what to add

Adelaidepie

[John Cena]

Dear Wendy, i dont think you understand the impact this decision will make on alot of clubs, so many players will be lost to the game.your treating of certain clubs is disgraceful

[ballmaster]

I would like to ask WC the question how many board members actually attended the last weekend meeting and how many voted for or again this decision of culling the reserve division. However this is now a good oportunity to air the concerns of all clubs to SAWSA regarding the "boards" decision. I would like to encourage all clubs to get actively involved in this obviousely misrepresented decision by SAWSA. Also i suggest if no outcome of this debacle is achieved in a positive way, that all clubs, members, coaches and parents should show SAWSA how disgusting this situation is in not attending the presentation night. The whole issue is showing total disrespect to delegates, clubs, coaches, players and parents. Hope this is sorted out very quickly so all clubs can positivley organise the next season.

[on the side]

Can someone please update us on what was said last night at the meeting?

[cg1]

I arrived late so missed the first half of the meeting so I'm perhaps not the best to relay all that transpired.
However from what I did hear the question would be more like what was listened to as compared to what was said.
The tone of the meeting seemed summed up in the President’s view near the end which I so slightly paraphrase ..we are not here to listen we are here to explain and tell you...

My personal view, not my club as I’m not authorised to convey an viewpoint on the meeting last night, is that no one doubts for a moment that the SAWSA board isn't trying to make a structural change in the best interests of women’s football.

However a couple of key points seem to me.
1. Toros were assured of 2 years in Prems.
The SAWSA board must honour that commitment.
Clubs put in place plans and strategies made on the basis of such commitments. SAWSA adopting the view, that because the structure has changed then it can fail to honour that commitment is not only lacking in integrity but may potentially have other legal and ecomomic consequences.
2. The removal of the Reserves is from club feedback to SAWSA.
The decision to remove the Reserves from the competition is touted as being from club feedback to SAWSA. I do not know of any club, or of any Premier team that submitted feedback in 2008 that suggested the Reserves should be abolished.
3. Lack of direct consultation for a significant change as implemented.
The rational and viewpoint expressed this was a structural change derived form extensive consideration and feedback. However at none of the Delegates meeting nor the Prem coaches meeting this year was such a radical restructure suggested by the board or discussed by clubs.
If SASWA believes this is such a positive and good structure, why haven't they discussed this in a transparent and accountable manner. Why haven't they openly engaged with genuine advanced notice to clubs of such a restructure.

If the Board feels they cannot back down now from the decisions they have imposed on women's football in SA why not delay the changes so that they take effect in 2010 rather than 2009 allowing clubs the time to adopt their own internal changes that will be necessary, as well as allowing young girls and women who play soccer to also make approrpiate changes in their own lives.

Strong leadership is not about taking a set and imposed position without compromise. Strong effective leadership is about taking on consultation, being responsible for the people with whom you engage, for negotiating with important stakeholders, and finding a path forward that is for the betterment of the game while maintaining integrity.

cg

[pvfc]

Not much to tell really.
We were told that this is how it will be. Sawsa Board see the structure they have put in place as being essential to the future of women's football in SA. So everyone had better start working out how their club sits in the new scheme of things and just get on with it.
There are however going to be some changes in player movement rules (ie between divisions) which have yet to be finalised. These are to accomodate the new league structure and the players movement which will be necessary as a result.
Apart from that most of the discussion was around Toro's "demotion" so little else got discussed - by the time that discussion was over there was basically no time left for other questions.

[gubs]

it should be that if u are a premier league player u should be able to be dropped down to ur clubs next league and then still be able to come back up again. eg: If a premier league club has 2 open age divisions in premier league and div 2 then any of those players should be able to move about freely between those two teams as the coach sees fit. If the next team down from premier league is div 3 then so be it. players will then move between div 3 and premier league depending on their own form. I doubt there is any other way around it, otherwise we will see girls sitting on the bench for prems each week who may never get to play much at all

[nanstar]

it should be that if u are a premier league player u should be able to be dropped down to ur clubs next league and then still be able to come back up again. eg: If a premier league club has 2 open age divisions in premier league and div 2 then any of those players should be able to move about freely between those two teams as the coach sees fit. If the next team down from premier league is div 3 then so be it. players will then move between div 3 and premier league depending on their own form. I doubt there is any other way around it, otherwise we will see girls sitting on the bench for prems each week who may never get to play much at all

if this happens, how will this strengthen division 1? won't it make division 2 stronger than division 1?

[gubs]

well then they shouldnt have scrapped reserves...

if they dont allow two open age teams at clubs who are able to move back and forth then they will see many girls leave clubs. Saying that, many only want to play for one club and may leave the game altogether

[nanstar]

well then they shouldnt have scrapped reserves...

if they dont allow two open age teams at clubs who are able to move back and forth then they will see many girls leave clubs. Saying that, many only want to play for one club and may leave the game altogether

I agree Gubs. The only way that this decision will strengthen division 1 is if players switch clubs and no player movement is allowed between prems and div 2. But if this happens than many prems girls will be on the bench a lot of the time and hence they might want to leave clubs. Any way, crap decision.

i guess I could talk about it until i'm blue in the face.

[gubs]

I dont see what the difference is anyway. those players who would play both teams wouldnt be the best 11 at their clubs so its not as tho all the "superstars" of the league would be playing in div 2. It would just be those players who are on the fringe of the prem team who are dropped back coz they cant get a game in the prems or those players who are coming back from injury

Some clubs played players in div 2 and then cup semi finals for prems this season so why cant it be allowed next season?

[becks]

quote] If the next team down from premier league is div 3 then so be it. players will then move between div 3 and premier league depending on their own form.

Can i just say that i play div 3 and to us it's more of a social league, some girls that have never played, or for others have only played 1 or 2 seasons.
I know alot of div 3 teams the same, so why would it be fair to us teams that are only out to play for fun getting smashed every week by prem players.

[gubs]

they would be fringe prems players. This is a sawsa decision. Next season there will be teams who played ressies and prems this year playing div 2 and 3. Sorry but this was not a players decision.

[Dr.D]

they would be fringe prems players. This is a sawsa decision. Next season there will be teams who played ressies and prems this year playing div 2 and 3. Sorry but this was not a players decision.

Just remember you said that when SAWSA impose restrictions on player movement between the Premier League and the lower divisions gubs.

SAWSA is there to protect the interests of ALL who play the game including the social players in Div 2 and 3, who honestly cannot compete against even the worst of your fringe players (no disresect Div 2 and 3). Whatever decision they make regarding player movement will have to take into consideration the needs of all groups, not just the Prems.

well then they shouldnt have scrapped reserves...

if they dont allow two open age teams at clubs who are able to move back and forth then they will see many girls leave clubs. Saying that, many only want to play for one club and may leave the game altogether

I believe this may be what SAWSA wants/hopes to happen. They would like to see all those "fringe" players move to the lower Prem clubs and/or Div 1 clubs to strengthen that competition. They won't get them to do that if they allow free movement between Prems and Div 2/3.

[John Cena]

from what i was told the president didnt wana be there and her attitude was the board made the decision and thats it, also i heard that they might seek legal advice about the comments made on here, HOW PATHETIC grow up, australia is a free world with free speach,

[Dr.D]

Well if you haven't said anything slanderous etc then you don't have to worry do you.

And just playing Devils Advocate here, but the constitution is pretty clear, and SAWSA are the elected body for the Women's Assoc, and they are entitled to make these sorts of decisions without the approval of the Delegates Committee.

Its not really any different to what will happen once the FFSA take over, but then the Delegates will be twice removed. Delegates will report to the Women's Standing Committee (made up of current Board members), who will report to the CEO and FFSA Board who will make the final decisions. The FFSA Board will take advice from the Women's Standing Committee, but who's to say they won't do things there own way and make their own decisions without consultation??

[pvfc]

it should be that if u are a premier league player u should be able to be dropped down to ur clubs next league and then still be able to come back up again. eg: If a premier league club has 2 open age divisions in premier league and div 2 then any of those players should be able to move about freely between those two teams as the coach sees fit. If the next team down from premier league is div 3 then so be it. players will then move between div 3 and premier league depending on their own form. I doubt there is any other way around it, otherwise we will see girls sitting on the bench for prems each week who may never get to play much at all

if this happens, how will this strengthen division 1? won't it make division 2 stronger than division 1?

That's just what MOST people have already worked out - Div2 will become the new reserves competition, with div 2 potentially stronger than div1. Most girls will realise that Div2 is the new reserves and simply play for their club's div 2 team knowing that they will still be in consideration for a run with the Prems rather than just jump ship to go and play for another club in div1 - it's called "club loyalty" and friendship.....
Sadly, others may just stop playing - teenagers on fringe of prems who feel they no longer have a place in the competition may just turn their back on the sport and get on with the other teenage 'distractions' instead.

[nanstar]

it should be that if u are a premier league player u should be able to be dropped down to ur clubs next league and then still be able to come back up again. eg: If a premier league club has 2 open age divisions in premier league and div 2 then any of those players should be able to move about freely between those two teams as the coach sees fit. If the next team down from premier league is div 3 then so be it. players will then move between div 3 and premier league depending on their own form. I doubt there is any other way around it, otherwise we will see girls sitting on the bench for prems each week who may never get to play much at all

if this happens, how will this strengthen division 1? won't it make division 2 stronger than division 1?

That's just what MOST people have already worked out - Div2 will become the new reserves competition, with div 2 potentially stronger than div1. Most girls will realise that Div2 is the new reserves and simply play for their club's div 2 team knowing that they will still be in consideration for a run with the Prems rather than just jump ship to go and play for another club in div1 - it's called "club loyalty" and friendship.....
Sadly, others may just stop playing - teenagers on fringe of prems who feel they no longer have a place in the competition may just turn their back on the sport and get on with the other teenage 'distractions' instead.

And this is what really makes me sad! I have been a very proud division 2 player for four seasons now, and i would HATE to see the league taken over by girls who don't want to be there. Our team has been champions 2 out of three years and runner up this year, and now we will possibly go down to division 3 and struggle against some of the 2008 reserves clubs? Wheres the reward for success and for building a team from nothing and taking them to the top of our division? Our team are great friends and will most likely all stay put even though we may be unhappy with the league structure, but c'mon! What about the girls who actually wanted to be in division 2??? you're kicking us out!!

[SAD GAL]

SAWSA (rip) soon to be FFSA is just shuffling deck chairs on the titanic!

Its not good at what hapening and from my point of view, there are far more important structural matters to tackle before slamming the make up of the non-prems leagues (I don't like the word lower).

They are just attending to the easy targets.

[John Cena]

it should be that if u are a premier league player u should be able to be dropped down to ur clubs next league and then still be able to come back up again. eg: If a premier league club has 2 open age divisions in premier league and div 2 then any of those players should be able to move about freely between those two teams as the coach sees fit. If the next team down from premier league is div 3 then so be it. players will then move between div 3 and premier league depending on their own form. I doubt there is any other way around it, otherwise we will see girls sitting on the bench for prems each week who may never get to play much at all

if this happens, how will this strengthen division 1? won't it make division 2 stronger than division 1?

That's just what MOST people have already worked out - Div2 will become the new reserves competition, with div 2 potentially stronger than div1. Most girls will realise that Div2 is the new reserves and simply play for their club's div 2 team knowing that they will still be in consideration for a run with the Prems rather than just jump ship to go and play for another club in div1 - it's called "club loyalty" and friendship.....
Sadly, others may just stop playing - teenagers on fringe of prems who feel they no longer have a place in the competition may just turn their back on the sport and get on with the other teenage 'distractions' instead.

this is what i was saying before many girls will walk away

[pecker]

The Grove will be seriously looking at the SAASL women's comp, it will only take 1 club, who has a mens amateur team to switch and a few will follow.
There may be only 1 stalling point, which will probably be FFSA waiting till the last minute to release the 2009 division structures, therefore giving clubs no time to switch associations.

[gubs]

nanstar how about the reserves girls who will now either have to play div 2 or 3 or in the worst case scenario, change clubs. How do u think they will feel after building friendships at their club? Fulham have promoted a number of girls from reserves this season just gone and now they have no hope of doing that. Squads for premier league teams will now have to be about 17 or 18 in order to cover injuries or players being away and only around 13 or 14 will get a game each week. 3 or 4 players each week will miss out on a game. At least with the old method every player was getting a game regardless.

I hope div 2/div 3 becomes stronger than div 1 just to show how silly this concept is. NO-ONE should be forced to change clubs!! Its not as though we get paid to play, the one main enjoyment we get out of playing is playing with ppl whom we have formed friendships with.

Bollocks decision imo and yes im allowed my opinion as I have been associated with my club for 10 years

[nanstar]

yeah i agree the reserves girls are also getting screwed over big time. especially girls at metro who won the reserves league and will now be forced to go into division two, and the div 2 metro team came 2nd! i know Its not only metro, i can only imagine how pissed off fulham reserves would be since they finished 6th, and now will be shifted all the way down to division 3! I'm sure if they had known that their last game of the season would be predicting which division they were in they would have had more of an incentive . Plus, how are the current division 3 girls and dropped division 2 clubs supposed to compete with this team and reserves teams coming in? I suppose the idea is that next year things will suck, but i'm sure SAWSA expects it to level out in a few years. i don't agree. I think it will force people out of the game.

AND of course the prems girls suffer because their squad would include girls who are consistently on the bench, and there would be little way to ease a player back from injury (unless they are allowed to move freely from div 2, which would cause problems because div 2 would then effectively be the reserves league and would be stronger than div 1) I know I wouldn't be willing to be one of those girls consistently on the prems bench if i couldn't get a game anywhere else.

There are so many flaws and its really disheartening. It makes it really hard to be excited about season 2009. I would hate to see girls lose their passion for the game. I know everyone has made friends and that's the best part about our clubs. So i agree, a rule that's forcing girls to switch clubs to play in the division that they deserve to be in is wrong, because we are not getting paid and we love our clubs. I've probably said all that I can say now. I'm sure things won't be changed just because i've written on this forum.

[gubs]

agree with everything u just said. I feel for all divisions coz its just not fair

hahaha im playing afl

[Dr.D]

I guess thats the concern isn't it. In their efforts to "close the gap" between Div 1 and Premier League, SAWSA's "Solution" could have a negative impact in the short term on ALL divisions of the game...

A lot of players in our competitions play for fun, and would leave the game after one negative season, I've seen it before

[lefty]

yeah i agree the reserves girls are also getting screwed over big time. especially girls at metro who won the reserves league and will now be forced to go into division two, and the div 2 metro team came 2nd! i know Its not only metro, i can only imagine how pissed off fulham reserves would be since they finished 6th, and now will be shifted all the way down to division 3! I'm sure if they had known that their last game of the season would be predicting which division they were in they would have had more of an incentive . Plus, how are the current division 3 girls and dropped division 2 clubs supposed to compete with this team and reserves teams coming in? I suppose the idea is that next year things will suck, but i'm sure SAWSA expects it to level out in a few years. i don't agree. I think it will force people out of the game.

AND of course the prems girls suffer because their squad would include girls who are consistently on the bench, and there would be little way to ease a player back from injury (unless they are allowed to move freely from div 2, which would cause problems because div 2 would then effectively be the reserves league and would be stronger than div 1) I know I wouldn't be willing to be one of those girls consistently on the prems bench if i couldn't get a game anywhere else.

In my experience I think this is already the case having been involved in Div 1 & 2 in recent years.

There are so many flaws and its really disheartening. It makes it really hard to be excited about season 2009. I would hate to see girls lose their passion for the game. I know everyone has made friends and that's the best part about our clubs. So i agree, a rule that's forcing girls to switch clubs to play in the division that they deserve to be in is wrong, because we are not getting paid and we love our clubs. I've probably said all that I can say now. I'm sure things won't be changed just because i've written on this forum.

How is this also going to effect the non premier league clubs having to play against reserve teams will they be flogged each week that wont be fun. Is SAWSA attempting to encourage players in clubs with big numbers to move to other clubs I cant see any logic in that.

Well I guess like Pecker said it might make clubs join the SAASL womens league in future :?

[pvfc]

Is SAWSA attempting to encourage players in clubs with big numbers to move to other clubs I cant see any logic in that.

That is exactly what they are trying to do.

Well I guess like Pecker said it might make clubs join the SAASL womens league in future :?

Unless something is done soon, then it would seem that this may well happen

[nanstar]

If we can't change the SAWSA league changes, maybe they will change the substitution rules in the premier league so that they can have as many as they like just all other divisions. This will lessen the strain of having no reserves league and might prevent girls being on the bench for a whole game. haven't they been talking about making that change? However i do think this will take away from the high standard of the premier league, kind of like taking away its professionalism. I'd be keen to hear other's thoughts on this.