11 team prem division in 2009 - Try again!!! 7

[Red Tiger]

Biggest difference between us and para hills was that para hills had other teams that had just come up as well, so they were competitive straight with gawler and campbelltown, we also lost 6 players from our div 1 team from last year as well (no excuses though in that regard). We gave youth the opportunity to play and although the results werent what we wanted them to be, the girls remained committed throughout the year.

For this reason I think Toros should be given their second year in the prem league.....hopefully the delegates and coaches from all the clubs can rally to help out.....

wendy really needs to be careful what she sais to some clubs about other clubs, specially "they dont deserve to be there " you made the rules re promotion so stick to them, plus your new boss as from 1 st nov isnt very happy either but as he said he cant do anything till then ... dont go to there presentation night

Good to know that the people in power (even if it is delayed) are not happy with these decisions.......I hope that he isn't happy about the reserve league either.......BRING IT BACK!!!

[calin]

nah dead serious... my dad was coach.... im sorry if u thought u had improved the second season but first year actual did get 5-6 points... the second season was practically a whole new team n did just as good as the first year in Prems n now this year u improved even more as the team stuck together, im sure if all the girls from this season stay together next year u guys will be up there as much as everyone else

Quiggles........really I must say you are dreaming.....we did not get 5-6 points.......agree with Calin on this one.....you are thinking of our second season.......we did quite poorly the first season......like Calin said.....you play that much it might be hard to keep track...... [/quote]

lol thanks red-tiger, seems everyone else who doesn't play for our club seems to keep tabs on our score - IN OUR FIRST SEASON WE LOST 1 OR 2 GAMES BY 15 OR 14 NIL and the others were lost by slightly lower margins. This is not about knights stats but simply that toro's were very equal to us. When we played them for the first time I straight away thought that they were stronger than Knights were in our first team. Quiggles i quote your dad 'Ok girls lets try not to loose by more than 10 goals this week' do ya think he would have said that if we had a couple of draws and a win under out belt!

Simple as, toros should stay up - they will improve exactly how Knights did. slightly over the whole 'How many points did Para get in their first season', my argument is toros stay up.
ciao

[calin]

oh yeah, you must have the wrong team also What The, we never had any of your soccerballs
I'll just put it down to that you're full of incorrect info

[Easy Tiger]

what? said: I honestly dont see anything wrong with dropping ressies division.

You are all say this is really bad..

What happens if this dropping the reserves is the best thing that happens to womens soccer.

Maybe then you will have a more even spread of players around the different clubs instead of moving to a club with a whole stack of teams at the top.

Wouldnt it then make the other teams strive to be more competetative. And who cares if the division are all moved down 1 the teams will basically still be the same just called something different.

I agree! wouldn't players who are not just good enough for prems at fulham, city, sturt, etc try to play prems in other clubs? Like at Para Hills for example? Maybe there's more room for them there and those clubs would become better

What if i dont want to play prems but dont want to play with old hacks in div 2 or 3 (sorry, no offence but it is very very different). If i cant play for Fulham then i dont want to play. I dont change my club like i change my undies. Might be ok for some but not for me

Hi gubs, I don't want to change club every year either...I was just trying to see the positive side of things here. Maybe if they want to change the leagues there is a reason, otherwise why doing all this? Can someone just explain what there is behind this? In what way will this benefit who? Maybe it's not all so bad, that's all I'm saying. Now I'm confused and it is not very clear

[Leppskiii]

what if the womens league starts early there4 takes out alot of players during the season next year?

[pvfc]

Leppski

I assume you mean what if the W-League for 2009 starts before the end of the SA Premier League?
That is a very good point - this is where a reserves squad is essential to cover for Prems players who have to leave the comp early because of the W-League (or similar).

[Leppskiii]

Yes womens league - w-league
u kno what i mean

[Red Tiger]

Leppski

I assume you mean what if the W-League for 2009 starts before the end of the SA Premier League?
That is a very good point - this is where a reserves squad is essential to cover for Prems players who have to leave the comp early because of the W-League (or similar).

There it is people.......clear cut reason why the reserve league is ESSENTIAL for next year's season......can someone please inform SAWSA....?? Lol

[Red Tiger]

oh yeah, you must have the wrong team also What The, we never had any of your soccerballs
I'll just put it down to that you're full of incorrect info

Good work Calin.......totally back her up on this one What the?.........all our balls have Para Hills Knights written on them.....we don't need Fulham's balls.....

[What the?]

Calin and Red Tiger

For starters i didnt say para hills took Fulhams balls i said are you the player that spat the dummy at Fulham and took her balls home.(meaning Para Hills player who spat the dummy and took Para Hills balls home with her)
I think this was also the same game that Bianca did her knee in.

I should know because i was there, and my memory is very good.

The most any team kicked against Para Hills in the first year was 10 goals, and Para Hills beat Gawler and also drew 3 games 1 i remember being against olympic, which Para Hills should have won after being 2 nil up at half time and Olympic leveling the score at 3-3 minutes before the end of the game.(Amy zaharski did the damage for Olympic)

Also yes the coach did say lets not get beaten by 10 goals, not because they had been beaten by more, but because it was something for a new struggling Prems team to aim at.(against the stronger teams like fulham and Adelaide City)
Ill just put your comments down as full of incorrect info Calin.
Makes me wonder if you girls even played the first year, if you cant remember the 1 game you won and the others you drew.
Your second year was the same as your first year, as in points, but you may have had some tighter games than in your first year, maybe its you girls that have too much soccer going on not quiggles.

[BillShankly]

Calin and Red Tiger

For starters i didnt say para hills took Fulhams balls i said are you the player that spat the dummy at Fulham and took her balls home.(meaning Para Hills player who spat the dummy and took Para Hills balls home with her)
I think this was also the same game that Bianca did her knee in.

I should know because i was there, and my memory is very good.

The most any team kicked against Para Hills in the first year was 10 goals, and Para Hills beat Gawler and also drew 3 games 1 i remember being against olympic, which Para Hills should have won after being 2 nil up at half time and Olympic leveling the score at 3-3 minutes before the end of the game.(Amy zaharski did the damage for Olympic)

Also yes the coach did say lets not get beaten by 10 goals, not because they had been beaten by more, but because it was something for a new struggling Prems team to aim at.(against the stronger teams like fulham and Adelaide City)
Ill just put your comments down as full of incorrect info Calin.
Makes me wonder if you girls even played the first year, if you cant remember the 1 game you won and the others you drew.
Your second year was the same as your first year, as in points, but you may have had some tighter games than in your first year, maybe its you girls that have too much soccer going on not quiggles.

That was actually Sasha Wainwright who ripped para hills apart and set up the goals for olympic to draw level.

[Red Tiger]

Calin and Red Tiger

For starters i didnt say para hills took Fulhams balls i said are you the player that spat the dummy at Fulham and took her balls home.(meaning Para Hills player who spat the dummy and took Para Hills balls home with her)
I think this was also the same game that Bianca did her knee in.

I should know because i was there, and my memory is very good.

The most any team kicked against Para Hills in the first year was 10 goals, and Para Hills beat Gawler and also drew 3 games 1 i remember being against olympic, which Para Hills should have won after being 2 nil up at half time and Olympic leveling the score at 3-3 minutes before the end of the game.(Amy zaharski did the damage for Olympic)

Also yes the coach did say lets not get beaten by 10 goals, not because they had been beaten by more, but because it was something for a new struggling Prems team to aim at.(against the stronger teams like fulham and Adelaide City)
Ill just put your comments down as full of incorrect info Calin.
Makes me wonder if you girls even played the first year, if you cant remember the 1 game you won and the others you drew.
Your second year was the same as your first year, as in points, but you may have had some tighter games than in your first year, maybe its you girls that have too much soccer going on not quiggles.

That was actually Sasha Wainwright who ripped para hills apart and set up the goals for olympic to draw level.

Seems you don't have all the correct info What the?......you seem to know a lot about Para Hills.......are you in any way affiliated to the club.......as from your earlier comments I got the impression you did not like us much at all......??

[jordan-space]

waiting...

[soccer4life]

I know Flinders who have now won Div 1 with a game still to play, have been seriously planning and getting ready to go to Prems next season. They had players, coaches and sponsorship all lined up. It can take a lot of momentum to get to that point and now they have to do it all over again.

[bLuE_blOoD]

okay...because im soooooooooo busy at work atm i went in2 page 17 of the forum... its got golden info from 2006... the year para hills first came into prems

ive found sum results

VS Campbelltown
1st time- lost 3-1
2nd time- lost 2-1

VS Vale
1st time- lost 2-1
2nd time- ? couldnt find it

VS Metro
1st time- lost 9-0
2nd time- lost 8-2

VS Gawler
1st time- ?
2nd time- OMG we won 3-2...well that was a forgotten loss. Looks like What the? u hav a point

VS Sturt
1st time- lost 8-0
2nd time- lost 10-0

VS Fulham
1st time- lost a whopping 15-0... looks like we did lose by more than 10. Well in Calin n Red tiger. and can i say that a 10 nil loss counts too that 1 against sturts counts too
2nd time- lost 10-0

VS City
1st time- lost 9-2
2nd time- lost 9-0

VS Cumby
1st time- could find... but we hav lost 17-0 to them at 1 point (them or metro) so that coulda been then
2nd time- 10-0

they r the only games i could find coz my brain hurts from over working


i would like to finish with

1) Para started off just like everyone else. A team cant be expected to come up and be prems standard right away. that takes time...time that has definatly not been givin to toros

2) Yes para did score a couple of times... but remember that we had quiggley, enough said, lol

3) Yeh ok a big loss can be demoralizing for a team, however, whatever doesnt kill you makes you stronger...and look at para now. We have given teams a good run for their money...even if it doesnt show on paper.

Give the underdogs a chance, give toros a fair go

[Red Tiger]

I know Flinders who have now won Div 1 with a game still to play, have been seriously planning and getting ready to go to Prems next season. They had players, coaches and sponsorship all lined up. It can take a lot of momentum to get to that point and now they have to do it all over again.

Damn straight that would be frustrating.......can only hope that when FFSA take over they have to common sense to put them up with Toros for the 10 team league.......seems they worked hard to get where they are......and no one understands this more then Para Hills.......many of us were very upset when we were dropped out of the prems this week........can only imagine what Flinders is going through now to find all that has gone down the drain........and let's not even begin on Toros......same position again.....really makes me wonder what on earth is going on in the minds of the those at SAWSA who've come up with this ridiculous decision........still waiting What the?....

[Red Tiger]

okay...because im soooooooooo busy at work atm i went in2 page 17 of the forum... its got golden info from 2006... the year para hills first came into prems

ive found sum results

VS Campbelltown
1st time- lost 3-1
2nd time- lost 2-1

VS Vale
1st time- lost 2-1
2nd time- ? couldnt find it

VS Metro
1st time- lost 9-0
2nd time- lost 8-2

VS Gawler
1st time- ?
2nd time- OMG we won 3-2...well that was a forgotten loss. Looks like What the? u hav a point

VS Sturt
1st time- lost 8-0
2nd time- lost 10-0

VS Fulham
1st time- lost a whopping 15-0... looks like we did lose by more than 10. Well in Calin n Red tiger. and can i say that a 10 nil loss counts too that 1 against sturts counts too
2nd time- lost 10-0

VS City
1st time- lost 9-2
2nd time- lost 9-0

VS Cumby
1st time- could find... but we hav lost 17-0 to them at 1 point (them or metro) so that coulda been then
2nd time- 10-0

they r the only games i could find coz my brain hurts from over working


i would like to finish with

1) Para started off just like everyone else. A team cant be expected to come up and be prems standard right away. that takes time...time that has definatly not been givin to toros

2) Yes para did score a couple of times... but remember that we had quiggley, enough said, lol

3) Yeh ok a big loss can be demoralizing for a team, however, whatever doesnt kill you makes you stronger...and look at para now. We have given teams a good run for their money...even if it doesnt show on paper.

Give the underdogs a chance, give toros a fair go

Well in Blue Blood........good to see you are hard at work........lol.......seems we were right in remembering that we didn't get many points at all.......certainly we did get 3 with that one win..........I think there may have been one draw in there.........so 4 points would be the most we got.......seems we were losing by big numbers.......even the 9-0 losses count really.....that's a thrashing.......and totally supports our arguement that Toros are not different to Para Hills in their first season......however we were given another year to make it........and as people have said we are getting there........we are only asking for what Toros were promised anyway by WC and SAWSA.........fairs fair.....and again with your 3rd point........the scoreline doesn't always reflect the game........

[peter shilton]

OK hows the following for an alternative to the new SAWSA league structure?

Alternative League Structure?


Premier League – 8 teams


State League (Reserves) – 10 teams

Initially 8 teams from Premier League(existing reserves), plus Toros and top Div1 team (Flinders).
If all Prems clubs don’t want to place a team in this div in the first year bring up other top div1 teams to suit.

Promotion and Relegation;
1. If non Premier League clubs finish in top 4, then the highest placed non Prem team is promoted and the bottom team in Prems is relegated to State League.
2. If no non Premier League clubs finish in top 4, then there is no promotion or relegation between State and Premier League for the following season.
3. If a Premier League team is relegated to State League, but already has a team in the State League, then their State League team is by default relegated to Div1 along with the bottom placed State League team (if this is a different team.).
4. Relegation from State League to Div1 is normally one team. However if a Prem team is relegated to State League and its State League team is relegated as a result, then if necessary 2 teams will be relegated to Div1, and 2 teams promoted from Div1.

Other Divisions ( Div1 to 4/5?)

Main considerations here are;
• If a club wins promotion to a higher div but already has a team there.
• If a club is relegated to a lower div but already has a team there.

The points 1 and 4 above can apply in these situations, just with the div names changed to suit?

Player movement for Prems would limited to between Prems and next lowest open age team the club has (with junior movement rules remaining unchanged)

Before Toros and Flinders people bite my head off, this could perhaps be applied with a 10 team Premier League to start with - I would have no real problem with that either.
However, I think that the above could be a more sensible way of approaching SAWSA's supposed goal of narrowing the gap between Prems and the division which feeds into it. In such a scenario, clubs such as Toros and Flinders would not be having to make a huge jump to Prems, but could take achievable steps by having to prove themselves against the best teams outside the Premier League in order to gain a place there. This would put them in a much better situation once they did then make the Premier League.
Also with clubs not guaranteed to have both Premier and Reserves/Sate league teams as promotion and relegation occurs over a few years, it would potentially allow a better mix of clubs in the Res/state league in years to come, and hence make the Premier League a more realistic goal for more clubs.

What do people think?

[Red Tiger]

I think that you have thought this out and structured it well......it would certainly be better then the system we have now......ie no reserves at all.....plus with the relegation it gives even more incentive to succeed......would love to hear other poeple's thoughts on this idea.......I congratulate you fortheloveofthegame..........very well done......

[nanstar]

I like the idea. it means that the two non-premier league clubs in the 'state/reserves' league who have been promoted from div 1 have the chance to be competitive in a higher competition, and if they do finish in the top four they will be more prepared for prems than they would in the current system.

It might mean that a team has to go that one year longer to be promoted, so it is a longer term prospect, but I think it could work and might be a really good idea. I do think it will be very hard for the 2 non prem teams in the state level though if prems clubs follow the rules and drop players occasionally. But i guess that will make the team stronger if they do succeed.

With this idea, it could takes a few years to have a team promoted to prems level, but if WC wants quality teams in the premier league, then this is what she needs to do, NOT dumping the reserves league. I think this would make much better teams than it would if you promote a team each year straight from div 1. WC just has to admit that the reserves league is of better standard than the division 1. Instead of dumping a league because they are good, how about use it to your strength?

Good idea forthegoodofthegame

What does everyone else think?

[Tottenham Hotspur]

Im sorry its a great idea but, could easily get abused that system. Without going on about the 'stacking' this year that upset people.... dont you think it might happen again. The only way to make sure it doesnt happen is to not have prem clubs represented in the 'state' league. It can and does(?) happen in other leagues.
For that reason alone Reserves need to stay.

Yes there must be a better way to promote clubs so the gap is no where near as big. Its time to look out side the box and make the hard decisions.

Anyway why change things now cause when FFSA take over they will do what THEY want, and believe me they will.

[nanstar]

WC's email address is Wendy.Carter@ffsa.com.au has it always been like this? or has she now been employed by FFSA ? If so will she then be in charge of the women's competition of FFSA?

[BillShankly]

Whilst its not a bad idea, it will be hard for in the example toros and flinders to attract players, to play against other clubs reserve teams.

Also it has been shown through the cup the past couple of years that div 1 teams are more then competitive against res teams at the moment.

[adelaidepie]

The merit is there with moving teams into the reserve grade first. I believe like most have seen jumping form Div 1 to prems is too big at first. So how do you fix this? The idea of coming throughthe reserve grade is soemthing which I believe has been run before with other leagues (can't rememeber which one though).

Maybe it should be div 1 moves into reserve grade for a season. Then as long as they don't finish bottom two, the following year they move up to prems. This gives them at least a stepping stone up.

Now how do you meove from here? Maybe oncve your promoted to prems if you finish bottom you get relegated out again. In respect you have had two years? Just the first in the reserve grade!

This may mean at times an in balance in numbers in the reserve grade to the prem league but should not be hard to play extra couple of games and or shedule some night games as long as it is even for all?

Remeber no league gives teams a chance to settle in the division above but saying that if we don't give teams chances then the competition and the players will never get the chance to improve nor the game to grow.

good thought though!

Adelaidepie

[peter shilton]

OK, so my alternative isn't perfect - but some people do agree it is an improvement on the new SAWSA league structure?
There are always going to be some situations which are difficult to put rules in place for without causing an issue elsewhere.
So, if I put this 'alternative' together in half an hour after talking to a few concerned people and pooling ideas to get the 'best compromise', why dont sawsa (or FFSA as it will be from Nov1 ), just leave the league as it was expected to be for 2009, and then consult with the clubs a little better before making any major changes for 2010. In a year I'm sure they can do better than I did in 30 minutes?..and at least then we may get a more workable solution which benefits a wider cross section of womens football in SA, and everyone knows what is coming rather than have it sprung on them at the last minute.

[AWA]

forthegoodofthegame, sems like a workable structure to me much better than pushing us lower teams against Prem reserve teams.
It needs fine tuning of the rules which would be easily achieved.
Something like a nominated Reserve grade side needs to record a set amount of matches played by the squad members apart form injury or illness otherwise the club loses that Reserves/Div1 team for next season.
Also from say round 15 onwards teams can't drop more than one player down from a higher grade to a lower team. Probably good for all grades so end of the season stacking doesn't occur.
Anyway just a few quick thoughts to even up the comp especially at the end of the season

[Dr.D]

WC's email address is Wendy.Carter@ffsa.com.au has it always been like this? or has she now been employed by FFSA ? If so will she then be in charge of the women's competition of FFSA?

Her email address has been like that since SAWSA moved from the offices at Hindmarsh Stadium to FFSA offices at Santos. I think her email changed because they're now tacking onto FFSA's server, so her domain name had to change for his to work.

So i answer to your question. No it hasn't always been like this. it used to be @sawsa.com.au, No she is not employed by FFSA, she is still an employee of SAWSA up until October 30th.

Wendy has been offered a role at FFSA after SAWSA is deregistered, but it is not in the capacity of Womens Competition Coordinator, as this role will only be a part-time position once FFSA take over. The role Wendy was offered is a full-time role as Competitions Manager, which means she would be in a role above the currents Men's and Junior Boys FFSA Competitions Coordinators. I am unsure if she has actually accepted this position.