11 team prem division in 2009 - Try again!!! 7

[gubs]

yeh so if u dont want to play prems next year then u have to settle for playing either div 2 or div 3 which is a massive step down. teams would be pissed coz once players play for div 2 or 3 they cant even sit on the bench for the premiers game. what a load of crap this whole thing is

[Tottenham Hotspur]

Just to clarify it was the SAWSA board that made these decisions NOT WC.

Also ... there was consultation. The Prem clubs had their own planning meeting with SAWSA and the clubs were specifically asked if they needed their reserve division and almost all said no. A lot of people have known for a long time that the reserve div was going to be scrapped.

And exactly what date was this meeting that has taken place? And how many clubs were there? That would be a interesting answer

Generally every year there is an Premier League COACHES meeting. I don't know if this meeting went ahead this year and if it did is this the meeting being referred to. Which if so would mean delegates wouldn't have been involved.

I can say that in previous years Premier Divisions Coaches ideas on whats best for the competitions have largely differed from those of the Delegates groups because they look to serve their own divisions interests over those of the whole competition.

I will say though that I have been told that apparently most coaches when asked said that they had a lot of players in their reserves teams that shouldn't be playing reserves and were basically making up numbers, that they were not in the picture to play premiers as far as they were concerned. I haven't watched any Reserves for a couple of years so cannot comment on the vailidity or truth of this statement, i'm sure many of you will disagree.

As for Fulham V Sturt Ressies game. Sturt already have a Div 2 team, as do Metro and Cumberland. They won't be able to put another team into this division.

I don't think that SAWSA envisage clubs retaining their current Reserves teams in their entirity and playing those same teams in a lower division. I think they think that in a lot of cases Prem clubs will pick their best 20 girls from their current two teams and retain those as their Prem team. It is then expected that those Reserves players cut will try their luck at other Prem clubs and/or Division 1 clubs, and therefore IF the Prem club opts to put in a Div 2 or 3 team it will still remain essentially a more social team. Whether or not it works out this way i cant say. I know that a lot of players are very loyal to their clubs and may be prepared to ride this out with them even if it means playing Div 2

As a Prems coach, no there was no talk of the Reserves be altered or anything at this years coaches meeting. The 'last' delegates meeting this year was mostly about the W league and the good old postponed matches.......
If there was anything else discussed I must have fallen asleep

[what?]

Well it looks like there is widespread anger/dis-belief/dismay at what SAWSA have put forward for 2009 - and I can see why. The implications go right through from prems to div4.

Question to Admin - can we set up a poll on FootballNews as follows?

What do you think is the best way forward for Women's Football in SA in 2009?
- SAWSA proposal, 8 team Premier League and no Reserves League.
- 10 team Premier League with Reserves League to remain in place.
- 8 team Premier League with Reserves League to remain in place.

I'm sure many people would like to respond to such a poll, and then point SAWSA in the direction of the Poll for some REAL feedback

[Tottenham Hotspur]

Well it looks like there is widespread anger/dis-belief/dismay at what SAWSA have put forward for 2009 - and I can see why. The implications go right through from prems to div4.

Question to Admin - can we set up a poll on FootballNews as follows?

What do you think is the best way forward for Women's Football in SA in 2009?
- SAWSA proposal, 8 team Premier League and no Reserves League.
- 10 team Premier League with Reserves League to remain in place.
- 8 team Premier League with Reserves League to remain in place.

I'm sure many people would like to respond to such a poll, and then point SAWSA in the direction of the Poll for some REAL feedback

Great idea.

[gubs]

Id vote for 10 team prem league with ressies

[Pao FC]

yea that would be good gubs, or even the 8 teams with ressies, actually tbh toros havent even had the time to develop so thats beyond the joke, and as a ressies player i aint playing div2 or 3, c-town ressies played adelaide city div 1 squad last year and won 4-1, so shit wats next........a poll sounds good,if we all complain (club delegates/coaches etc), maybe write a letter, they would have to change there new stupid plans because the bottom line is there new idea is seriously not going to work and screw up womens soccer in SA!

Also if were going to be under FFSA why is sawsa changing things wen there almost finished???? becoz FFSA will have there own ideas! maybe its for a bit of a thrill before they cant have anymore control lol

[pvfc]

Id vote for 10 team prem league with ressies

Me too

[what?]

Well I've sent a pm to admin requesting a poll.
We also need everyone to do what a few others also have suggested, write or e-mail SAWSA and FFSA - the more who do this the better.

[What the?]

I honestly dont see anything wrong with dropping ressies division.

You are all say this is really bad..

What happens if this dropping the reserves is the best thing that happens to womens soccer.

Maybe then you will have a more even spread of players around the different clubs instead of moving to a club with a whole stack of teams at the top.

Wouldnt it then make the other teams strive to be more competetative. And who cares if the division are all moved down 1 the teams will basically still be the same just called something different.

[gubs]

well from a Fulham point of view if our ressies are dropped to div 3 then at no time throughout the year can we call on players from the div 3 team (who would be reserves league standard from this season) to sit on the bench for our premier league team. We would have to have two separate squads with absolutely no movement between teams as u can only move no more than 2 divs down. Where does it leave those players who arent quite prem standard but too good for div 3? or those who are normally in prems but have injured themselves and need match fitness before returning to the prems team? they get shafted pretty much

[pvfc]

Maybe then you will have a more even spread of players around the different clubs instead of moving to a club with a whole stack of teams at the top.

I just have a problem with SAWSA effecively trying to influence players to move clubs - they are at clubs normally for good reasons - loyalty, practicality (ie location), etc, etc, and moving clubs may just not be an option for them. Also gives less incentive for clubs to develop their own players through the junior ranks, as they may as well sit back and wait for the up and coming youngsters from other clubs to come and join them when there is no room elsewhere. ( some clubs, like mine, will of course continue to place an emphasis on juniors development regardless)

Wouldnt it then make the other teams strive to be more competetative. And who cares if the division are all moved down 1 the teams will basically still be the same just called something different.

it wouldn't be simply all divs get renamed one div lower - have you actually seen the proposal? You would have existing ressies teams effectively put into div2 or div3 which is going to distort the lower divs for a few years until things settle out and you effectively end up with div2 then being effectively the reserves div.

[pvfc]

well from a Fulham point of view if our ressies are dropped to div 3 then at no time throughout the year can we call on players from the div 3 team (who would be reserves league standard from this season) to sit on the bench for our premier league team. We would have to have two separate squads with absolutely no movement between teams as u can only move no more than 2 divs down. Where does it leave those players who arent quite prem standard but too good for div 3? or those who are normally in prems but have injured themselves and need match fitness before returning to the prems team? they get shafted pretty much

Plus you will have your prems and you next highest div teams playing at different locations quite often - makes life very difficult without having a large prems squad with several girls not getting a game each week.

[What the?]

Yeah I can see that point of view but what about the clubs that only have 1 team ??

Where do they get their extra players from?? They dont they survive on the players they have. Why cant Prems do that? Because they are so use to it being one way that they are not willing to try and change anything.

Out of the 11 players that played week in week out for Fulham really how many reserves actually got a full game in Prems. And how many of the main 11 played in reserves???
Yes you had reserves sit on the bench but they also played a full game for reserves cause it was probably likely that they would on get the last 10 mins in prems.

[Dr.D]

Yeah I can see that point of view but what about the clubs that only have 1 team ??

Where do they get their extra players from?? They dont they survive on the players they have. Why cant Prems do that? Because they are so use to it being one way that they are not willing to try and change anything.

Out of the 11 players that played week in week out for Fulham really how many reserves actually got a full game in Prems. And how many of the main 11 played in reserves???
Yes you had reserves sit on the bench but they also played a full game for reserves cause it was probably likely that they would on get the last 10 mins in prems.

The glaring difference here what the? is that Premier division plays the proper substitution rule where you can only make 3 changes in a game and once you're off you're off. The Div 2 and 3 clubs play interchange. So they can have a squad of 20 girls and once you factor in injury, weddings, hangovers etc, putting 16 girls on the park each week and having no one actually dropped is quite easy to do because you can rotate your 16 girls on and off over the course of the 90 minutes and everyones happy.

Hypothetically if this goes ahead you'd have 20 girls in a Prem squad you put 16 on your team sheet and you can actually only use 14 of them in the game anyway, so 2 girls on the bench miss out, one probably being a back-up goalie and then she have another 4 girls that didn't even make it onto the team sheet. Thats 6 girls each week losing their match fitness because they're not getting regular games...

How can this improve the standard of the competition overall???

[calin]

In the first year Para hills only ever were beaten by 10 goals by Fulham and Cumberland. All the other games were closer. They beat Gawler in the last game of the season and drew with Adelaide olympic, campbelltown and Gawler.

So I think that they did a lot better than the torros

Maybe you are thinking about reserves who yes did get beaten almost every game 15 to nil in their first season..........

Uh no Maybe you are thinking of our second season in premier league?!? doesn't matter anyways but just saying that we did no better than toros.I am certain that we may have only drawn one game in our first season, there was no win or 3 draws - that was last year. yeah you're thinking of last year!

[quiggles]

mmm actually... i played for Para Hills in their first year in Prems n we did win 1 and drew a few... i remember cos that was the highlight of the year lol

[calin]

last year we drew 3 and won 1 :?
we ended up on 6 points and I am 100% sure that that was better than the previous year i.e our first year in prems!!!
Quiggles you did that much soccer you're all over the shop LOL
dig me up some old history cos i'd feel 1000x better knowing we did that well in our first season in prems!!!
I have just had confirmation from 4 peeps at para!

[quiggles]

nah dead serious... my dad was coach.... im sorry if u thought u had improved the second season but first year actual did get 5-6 points... the second season was practically a whole new team n did just as good as the first year in Prems n now this year u improved even more as the team stuck together, im sure if all the girls from this season stay together next year u guys will be up there as much as everyone else

[bennylava]

1 win and three draws are a great deal better then 0-0-16, scoring twice and conceeding an astonishing 132 times.

(average result would be Other Team 8.2-0.1 Toros)

ridiculous.

[Red Tiger]

1 win and three draws are a great deal better then 0-0-16, scoring twice and conceeding an astonishing 132 times.

(average result would be Other Team 8.2-0.1 Toros)

ridiculous.

Yeah but you see I'm looking at how Toros played when we played them.......they were beginning to string together passes and good ball movement.......I admit they have a way to go.....but going back down will not help them get any better......seriously Bennylava we get it you don't like the Toros.......however you need to look past your own personal opinion and see that for the league to improve we need more teams......EPL has 20 team.......they are not all of the same standard.....however they still get exposed to that level of play......now are you telling me that you think your way is better then the system that contains the best soccer players from around the world....??? I don't think so......think outside the box.....

[What the?]

calin
If you played in the first season for the knights you would know that they never got beaten by more than 10 goals,and won against Gawler and drew 3 games.
Which is the same as your second season.
Or are you the player that spat the Dummy at Fulham and went home with there balls.

[Easy Tiger]

what? said: I honestly dont see anything wrong with dropping ressies division.

You are all say this is really bad..

What happens if this dropping the reserves is the best thing that happens to womens soccer.

Maybe then you will have a more even spread of players around the different clubs instead of moving to a club with a whole stack of teams at the top.

Wouldnt it then make the other teams strive to be more competetative. And who cares if the division are all moved down 1 the teams will basically still be the same just called something different.

I agree! wouldn't players who are not just good enough for prems at fulham, city, sturt, etc try to play prems in other clubs? Like at Para Hills for example? Maybe there's more room for them there and those clubs would become better

[kyan_timberelli]

yeh but most players playing ressies or prems have been at their club for a while (most players i would expect from juniors) and are loyal to their club and wouldn't want to move and also it would be a lot harder for parents who live near fulham to travel the extra kms to parahills to play.....i think that if swasa think this is doing good for their players then they are wrong they are leaving around 130 players without a league and i wouldn't be suprised if players turned their back on the sport because they are getting screwed over....stupid really because a lot of girls who would have potential to play prems are going to miss out because they are getting dropped down to a lower div.....i hope they can sort this out so the development of sa girls can continue to move forward instead of possibly going backwards, most players who are playing prems this year i would expect to be playing next year with possibly a few small changes. if you look at all big clubs around the world they all have a reserves team to fall back on, without this who are the prems going to look towards if they need players because if they have a big squad of say 20 players will be constantly missing out on a game and therefore not developing more as players and if they have a small squad of say 16 if they have injuries they will be pushing for numbers......as for the how many prems players from fulham played prems thoughout the year many prems players were dropped for not performing and/or coming back from injuries whilst many reserves players trained with prems and would play reserves or prems on the weekend. i say keep ressies or face possibly losing a group of talented and developing girls

[nanstar]

PREMIER DIVISION CLUB MEETING

19 MAY 2008


SASI Update:

* Eight Players National Identification
* Some players on the fringe of National Selection
* Assistance provided to clubs and State Under 17 Team
* Injury procedure for players has been put in place to assist the recovery of players for both the benefit of the clubs and SASI
* Clubs will be notified of any injuries relating to players
* If your players do get injured or there are any injury concerns over players please notify Kevin
* Injury relates to a player that cannot train



Club Updates:

Adelaide City

* No issues or concerns to raise



Adelaide Olympic

* Cup Draw, is it possible in the future to have the teams that play against each other in the cup on Friday be drawn against each other in the league on Sunday. It ensures all teams are on a even playing field
* Interchange - To be considered – Wendy indicated that this had been discussed with clubs and that as the Premier Division is the highest competition offered, substitution was favoured.



Campbelltown City

* In a rebuilding process
* A lot of younger players have come into the team
* Technically very good



Cumberland United

* No issues or concerns to raise



Fulham United

* Competition is getting more competitive
* Numbers have increased
* Issue with change of kick-off time as it conflicts with men’s game



Metro United

* Happy with the Depth of club
* Under 9 League
* Assistant Referees



Para Hills Knights

* Struggled with numbers in 2007
* Looking to consolidate numbers in 2008



Sturt Marion

* No issues or concerns to raise



Western Districts

* Movement from Premier/Reserve
* Players tied to clubs



Issue of the Reserve Division was raised.

What is the purpose of the Reserve Division? Do we need this league?

Under 19s.


State Team Update:

* Training schedule provided
* Metro United – What level should the players be playing in to be selected into State Teams? – SAWSA do not specify what level a player should be playing in but the player should be in a competition that is challenging and that they can cope with
* SAWSA is stressing that their needs to open communication between club coaches, state coaches and players




Premier Division Games of the Month:

* These games will be held at Santos Stadium and are designed to further promote the sport.
* Currently working with Referees Appointment Officer to have female referees appointed
* Proceeds will also support NBCF




Report on Premier Division Games

* Wendy requested that clubs forward a small report after their games so it can go on the website



Technical Areas

* Clubs needs to have marked out technical areas
* Only players and officials should be in these areas
* Suggestion to rope off area to stop people from walking through the technical areas
* Ground Stewards




AOB:

* Para Hills Knights requested that clubs ensure that put all their rubbish in the bins prior to leaving
* Adelaide Olympic requested Referee Fees be sent out to clubs again
* Sturt Marion would like to acknowledge the improvement of Campbelltown City and Para Hills Knights




These are the minutes from this infamous meeting back in May when apparently clubs decided that they did not need the reserves division. Why does the comment about the relevance of the reserves league appear at the end of the list and is not attached to the opinion of any specific club?

If clubs did not see the relevance of the reserves division they wouldn't have fielded a team this year because it WASN'T compulsory.

Plus.. how will this make division one better? ... SAWSA are assuming that Reserves players will be attracted to division 1 sides now. Most of us are already loyal to our clubs and this is not an option.

I think this will strengthen the division 2 and 3 sides! SAWSA will end up having a more competitive division 2 and 3 than division 1!!!

I think that will be the biggest joke

[BillShankly]

Sorry have to agree with Bennylava.

Toros even tho they won the right to be in prems were woefull....

Red Tiger you compare them with Para Hills in their first year but at least para hills won 1 game and drew 3 in their first year in prems. Toros did not even come close to winning or even drawing in any game and only scored 2 goals in a whole season.


I really think that this would be a good move for torros to get some confidence back in Div 1 and try again in a couple of years for Prems and to build their side a bit more.

As for dropping the reserves I really think it would not matter that much. I mean your still going to have the players play just in a different div. Whats wrong with that????

Biggest difference between us and para hills was that para hills had other teams that had just come up as well, so they were competitive straight with gawler and campbelltown, we also lost 6 players from our div 1 team from last year as well (no excuses though in that regard). We gave youth the opportunity to play and although the results werent what we wanted them to be, the girls remained committed throughout the year.

[Tottenham Hotspur]

PREMIER DIVISION CLUB MEETING

19 MAY 2008


SASI Update:

* Eight Players National Identification
* Some players on the fringe of National Selection
* Assistance provided to clubs and State Under 17 Team
* Injury procedure for players has been put in place to assist the recovery of players for both the benefit of the clubs and SASI
* Clubs will be notified of any injuries relating to players
* If your players do get injured or there are any injury concerns over players please notify Kevin
* Injury relates to a player that cannot train



Club Updates:

Adelaide City

* No issues or concerns to raise



Adelaide Olympic

* Cup Draw, is it possible in the future to have the teams that play against each other in the cup on Friday be drawn against each other in the league on Sunday. It ensures all teams are on a even playing field
* Interchange - To be considered – Wendy indicated that this had been discussed with clubs and that as the Premier Division is the highest competition offered, substitution was favoured.



Campbelltown City

* In a rebuilding process
* A lot of younger players have come into the team
* Technically very good



Cumberland United

* No issues or concerns to raise



Fulham United

* Competition is getting more competitive
* Numbers have increased
* Issue with change of kick-off time as it conflicts with men’s game



Metro United

* Happy with the Depth of club
* Under 9 League
* Assistant Referees



Para Hills Knights

* Struggled with numbers in 2007
* Looking to consolidate numbers in 2008



Sturt Marion

* No issues or concerns to raise



Western Districts

* Movement from Premier/Reserve
* Players tied to clubs



Issue of the Reserve Division was raised.

What is the purpose of the Reserve Division? Do we need this league?

Under 19s.


State Team Update:

* Training schedule provided
* Metro United – What level should the players be playing in to be selected into State Teams? – SAWSA do not specify what level a player should be playing in but the player should be in a competition that is challenging and that they can cope with
* SAWSA is stressing that their needs to open communication between club coaches, state coaches and players




Premier Division Games of the Month:

* These games will be held at Santos Stadium and are designed to further promote the sport.
* Currently working with Referees Appointment Officer to have female referees appointed
* Proceeds will also support NBCF




Report on Premier Division Games

* Wendy requested that clubs forward a small report after their games so it can go on the website



Technical Areas

* Clubs needs to have marked out technical areas
* Only players and officials should be in these areas
* Suggestion to rope off area to stop people from walking through the technical areas
* Ground Stewards




AOB:

* Para Hills Knights requested that clubs ensure that put all their rubbish in the bins prior to leaving
* Adelaide Olympic requested Referee Fees be sent out to clubs again
* Sturt Marion would like to acknowledge the improvement of Campbelltown City and Para Hills Knights




These are the minutes from this infamous meeting back in May when apparently clubs decided that they did not need the reserves division. Why does the comment about the relevance of the reserves league appear at the end of the list and is not attached to the opinion of any specific club?

If clubs did not see the relevance of the reserves division they wouldn't have fielded a team this year because it WASN'T compulsory.

Plus.. how will this make division one better? ... SAWSA are assuming that Reserves players will be attracted to division 1 sides now. Most of us are already loyal to our clubs and this is not an option.

I think this will strengthen the division 2 and 3 sides! SAWSA will end up having a more competitive division 2 and 3 than division 1!!!

I think that will be the biggest joke

[gubs]

what? said: I honestly dont see anything wrong with dropping ressies division.

You are all say this is really bad..

What happens if this dropping the reserves is the best thing that happens to womens soccer.

Maybe then you will have a more even spread of players around the different clubs instead of moving to a club with a whole stack of teams at the top.

Wouldnt it then make the other teams strive to be more competetative. And who cares if the division are all moved down 1 the teams will basically still be the same just called something different.

I agree! wouldn't players who are not just good enough for prems at fulham, city, sturt, etc try to play prems in other clubs? Like at Para Hills for example? Maybe there's more room for them there and those clubs would become better

What if i dont want to play prems but dont want to play with old hacks in div 2 or 3 (sorry, no offence but it is very very different). If i cant play for Fulham then i dont want to play. I dont change my club like i change my undies. Might be ok for some but not for me

[Red Tiger]

what? said: I honestly dont see anything wrong with dropping ressies division.

You are all say this is really bad..

What happens if this dropping the reserves is the best thing that happens to womens soccer.

Maybe then you will have a more even spread of players around the different clubs instead of moving to a club with a whole stack of teams at the top.

Wouldnt it then make the other teams strive to be more competetative. And who cares if the division are all moved down 1 the teams will basically still be the same just called something different.

I agree! wouldn't players who are not just good enough for prems at fulham, city, sturt, etc try to play prems in other clubs? Like at Para Hills for example? Maybe there's more room for them there and those clubs would become better

What if i dont want to play prems but dont want to play with old hacks in div 2 or 3 (sorry, no offence but it is very very different). If i cant play for Fulham then i dont want to play. I dont change my club like i change my undies. Might be ok for some but not for me

Well said gubs.....I think we will find many reserve players pledging their services to their club.....as for joining Para Hills.....well there are only 11 places in a team....and we do have players staying.......you can't expect us to take all 100+ reserve players.....

nah dead serious... my dad was coach.... im sorry if u thought u had improved the second season but first year actual did get 5-6 points... the second season was practically a whole new team n did just as good as the first year in Prems n now this year u improved even more as the team stuck together, im sure if all the girls from this season stay together next year u guys will be up there as much as everyone else

Quiggles........really I must say you are dreaming.....we did not get 5-6 points.......agree with Calin on this one.....you are thinking of our second season.......we did quite poorly the first season......like Calin said.....you play that much it might be hard to keep track......

[Red Tiger]

Biggest difference between us and para hills was that para hills had other teams that had just come up as well, so they were competitive straight with gawler and campbelltown, we also lost 6 players from our div 1 team from last year as well (no excuses though in that regard). We gave youth the opportunity to play and although the results werent what we wanted them to be, the girls remained committed throughout the year.

For this reason I think Toros should be given their second year in the prem league.....hopefully the delegates and coaches from all the clubs can rally to help out.....

[John Cena]

Biggest difference between us and para hills was that para hills had other teams that had just come up as well, so they were competitive straight with gawler and campbelltown, we also lost 6 players from our div 1 team from last year as well (no excuses though in that regard). We gave youth the opportunity to play and although the results werent what we wanted them to be, the girls remained committed throughout the year.

For this reason I think Toros should be given their second year in the prem league.....hopefully the delegates and coaches from all the clubs can rally to help out.....

wendy really needs to be careful what she sais to some clubs about other clubs, specially "they dont deserve to be there " you made the rules re promotion so stick to them, plus your new boss as from 1 st nov isnt very happy either but as he said he cant do anything till then ... dont go to there presentation night