11 team prem division in 2009 - Try again!!! 7

[Red Tiger]

Red Tiger im not agreeing with what they have done, just trying to make sense of it all really. God knows why they would change things. People are pissed off with the way things are run as it is, this only shits them more

No that's fine gubs the question was more rhetoric and directed at all........I understand where you are coming from as we have the same views on this issue.....as for Toros.....I say keep fighting for your rightful place back in the premier league.....you still have 1 year to go......they can't just change their minds and go back on their words......we were given 2 year grace period......you deserve the same....

[adelaidepie]

I will also talk about the cumby v campbelltown game which is in the same position as Sturt marion v Fulham reserves game. Spoke to saws about no points game because it made no difference in league standing eg Fulham reserves could finish 4th if win or 6th if draw or lose. The Cumby Campbelltown could make a difference betweeen 2nd bottom and third bottom. So not a lot riding on them games.

So whats the problem? Easy if Fulham had played and lost and finished 6th no biggy right? Wrong, if what is being proposed means that the teams finiishing bottom 3 or 4 go now into div 3 WENDY and SAWSA just screwed Fulham as this was not mentioned when the disucssions took place about the catch up game because if Fulham knew this they would have played especially as Wendy was doing the organising which Tracey and the reserves coach hadn't bothered to do from Fulham. Yes in three weeks no calls from Sturt about playing the game even though Tracey was rung about this before the second to last game of the season and even though they Sturt postponed the game because of the waterlogged pitch. FACT! as I am the reserve coach at Fulham. So if Wendy knew this about teams being put into different divisions due to where they finished, I can see why she was so happy to get a no game result in the reserves. Not playing, assisted Sturt. Keeping the secret is bang out of order and leaves Fulham and I with a lot of questions to be answered for her lack of openess if and this is the if, Wendy and Sawsa are going to make these changes as being predicted.

All clubs have grounds to appeal these decisions because the last games now should have been played because the results would indicate which divisions your teams may end up in next year.

Another SAWAS prize for helping Sturt.

Total Bollocks and this is the game moving forward if this is all going to happen.

If the reserve teams are going to go into Division 2 or 3 then really the leagues in general are going to be stuffed. Example.

Metro win Div two, can't get promoted because can't run a div 1 team. Therefore what happens do you go down the list until you find a team that can go up? A player being promoted from the reserves now has to jump two grades minimum. Most reserve grade teams can be and are competitive with div one, to drop them now to Div two will mean big gaps in games. Teams trying to gain promotion having to have even better squads to jump teams who have players coming down from their prems teams.

Thsi is all the wrong way around. The reserves comp runs well. As do in appearance 1 to 4. Dvi one can get promoted. If they want to close the gap then maybe move a team up to reserves from div one or something and give them a season to see if they can be competitive there but this just does not make sense.

Still FFSA will have fun fixing this up.

Adelaidepie

[Gazelle]

That's a shocking decision. How do you know that it's true though? I hope for the sakes of the teams and clubs that will face being cut that it's not.

What is going to happen with the future of the clubs that aren't "allowed" to play in the prems league? Whoever made this decision should be ashamed of themselve(s). They shouldn't be allowed to cut a team out of the league based on their results from one season. We have to look to the future, not the past if we plan on improving the quality of women's football in this state.

If this statement is true:
"most disturbing of all is that the SAWSA board have seen fit to do this without any consultation with club delegates. Surely a league restructure such as this would require the consent of all the delegates??"
Then it just shows how corrupt and unfair the system is in this state.

Women's football in this state is all about promoting women's football and increasing the talent in our state. Tell me, how is talent meant to be increased when the number of teams allowed to play is decreased? IT'S NOT LOGICAL an it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

This decision to cut clubs out of the prems comp and most likely force teams to pull out of the lower, more social leagues is absurd and destroying the women's football profile that already exists in SA.

Who the hell thought of this idea in the first place? It's an evil idea. And whoever is for this, obviously does not support the growth of women's football in SA.

If, for some reson teams had to be cut out of the prems league (but I honestly have no idea why this would be), they could at least leave an even number of teams in the league!! Duh! But seeing as there is no good reason, correct me if I am wrong, that teams should be kicked out of the premier league, then don't kick out any teams!!! People will get angry and write complaints and it will be hell for whoever has to deal with those angry mums, dads and players.

Also, DANNII IS VERY ANGRY ABOUT THIS!

[Red Tiger]

I will also talk about the cumby v campbelltown game which is in the same position as Sturt marion v Fulham reserves game. Spoke to saws about no points game because it made no difference in league standing eg Fulham reserves could finish 4th if win or 6th if draw or lose. The Cumby Campbelltown could make a difference betweeen 2nd bottom and third bottom. So not a lot riding on them games.

So whats the problem? Easy if Fulham had played and lost and finished 6th no biggy right? Wrong, if what is being proposed means that the teams finiishing bottom 3 or 4 go now into div 3 WENDY and SAWSA just screwed Fulham as this was not mentioned when the disucssions took place about the catch up game because if Fulham knew this they would have played especially as Wendy was doing the organising which Tracey and the reserves coach hadn't bothered to do from Fulham. Yes in three weeks no calls from Sturt about playing the game even though Tracey was rung about this before the second to last game of the season and even though they Sturt postponed the game because of the waterlogged pitch. FACT! as I am the reserve coach at Fulham. So if Wendy knew this about teams being put into different divisions due to where they finished, I can see why she was so happy to get a no game result in the reserves. Not playing, assisted Sturt. Keeping the secret is bang out of order and leaves Fulham and I with a lot of questions to be answered for her lack of openess if and this is the if, Wendy and Sawsa are going to make these changes as being predicted.

All clubs have grounds to appeal these decisions because the last games now should have been played because the results would indicate which divisions your teams may end up in next year.

Another SAWAS prize for helping Sturt.

Total Bollocks and this is the game moving forward if this is all going to happen.

If the reserve teams are going to go into Division 2 or 3 then really the leagues in general are going to be stuffed. Example.

Metro win Div two, can't get promoted because can't run a div 1 team. Therefore what happens do you go down the list until you find a team that can go up? A player being promoted from the reserves now has to jump two grades minimum. Most reserve grade teams can be and are competitive with div one, to drop them now to Div two will mean big gaps in games. Teams trying to gain promotion having to have even better squads to jump teams who have players coming down from their prems teams.

Thsi is all the wrong way around. The reserves comp runs well. As do in appearance 1 to 4. Dvi one can get promoted. If they want to close the gap then maybe move a team up to reserves from div one or something and give them a season to see if they can be competitive there but this just does not make sense.

Still FFSA will have fun fixing this up.

Adelaidepie

Seems Para Hills and Toros weren't the only ones getting left in the dark......someone really needs to look into this......Wendy should be held accountable.....Sturt can't have everything their way......hopefully with FFSA taking over we can sort this out.....

[gubs]

Fulham have every right to play that last game against sturt and if this whole splitting of the teams is going to occur its only fair that ALL teams end up on an even amount of games played for the season.

If they refuse to have the game played then u could almost claim those 3 points as u dont know what would have happened had the game been played

[John Cena]

wendy was at the toros presentation night a few years ago and said to me, will be good when the toros try to get into the prem league they have a great junior setup, and look how they have been treated now, thankyou again wendy for stuffing up a clubs future, i think its time you make a decision either your gona run sawsa and not be invloved with a club or only be involved with a club, in no other organisation is a head of a league tied to any club, please wake up to the stu.pid decision you have made here yourself and look at how it would affect the clubs in the future, and were in the constitution does it say that i will change the rules when i feel like, the wheels fell of when anton moved to mildura ..YOUR A JOKE WENDY HOW BOUT LOOKING AFTER ALL CLUBS IN THE SAME MANNER,

[Pao FC]

[/quote]
I have to add that I have been informed that Campbelltown was called before the game on sunday to let them know they were being relegated.......now explain to me how that is fair with one team going in with all the info and the other kept in the dark....??? As previously stated......had Para Hills known about the relegation things would have been done differently with regards to starting XI.......clearly bad organisation by WC and SAWSA......unfortunately this comes as no surprise......[/quote]



Well thats interesting because i play for c-town and we had NO IDEA we were on the verge of relegation, now i dont know if the coach knew but NONE of the players knew anything, just like we knew nothing about not playing cumberland. We played a whole game assuming its just a chance to jump para hills and get some extra points....thats it!


...and if ur sources are correct red tiger than we the players, must of been kept in the dark too, so psycologically so we wouldnt panic. Para hills shuld of been informed most definately....but then again what sort of professsional federation "calls" a club before a game sayin "hey there u guys are gonna get relegated unless uz win today". Even if Tony(the coach) was aware he most DEFINATELY didnt give anything away and wasnt acting any different to how he usually does on game day, wether it be player selection or his emotions. Honestly this is such a shamble and SAWSA is the shittest federation in australia!

And for the record the manager of sawsa SHOULD NOT even be playing/coaching a club in a league she owns and runs!!!!

[gubs]

So who's for womens AFL next year with me?? any takers??

[soccer4life]

Just to clarify it was the SAWSA board that made these decisions NOT WC.

Also ... there was consultation. The Prem clubs had their own planning meeting with SAWSA and the clubs were specifically asked if they needed their reserve division and almost all said no. A lot of people have known for a long time that the reserve div was going to be scrapped.

[pvfc]

In response to a few of the recent comments;

Yes it is all true, the memo has been sent to club delegates - ask your delegate for a copy.

It is very unfair on Fulham Ressies of the extra catch up game could have made a difference.

If my club said they didn't need their reserve division then I will be very p1ssed off, as would many of the players there I'm sure!

[soccer_fan]

yeh im in gubs.....im thinking woodville lol they won the grandfinal the last few years.... i know as a reserves player that if playin sturt wud determine if we are now in div 2 or 3 i am quite happy to play sturt and im sure the rest of my team would be happy to do the same.....i say keep ressies cuz then its competetive and wat are prems going to do if they have players who are injured or arent performing not like they can drop them to div 2 or 3

[george08]

I play for Campbelltown and we had no idea about the relegation issue. Campbelltown were definitely not informed before the game against Para Hills. We went into that game thinking we could move up higher then Para Hills because of our goal difference. Our coach used the same starting 11 he has used all year! I spoke to our club delegate and she was informed today about the new league and that Campbelltown reserves are being moved to Div 3. Neither the coach or club delegate had any idea about this issue until today. Nor did we as players.
We also had no idea about the Cumby game. We just got told were not playing it!
I think people need to get thier facts right before saying anything!!

I think this is shocking what is going on with all the teams. It screws up all the divisions. I hope FFSA can fix this all up!

[gubs]

AFL anyone?

[John Cena]

can i be the GM?

[John Cena]

Just to clarify it was the SAWSA board that made these decisions NOT WC.

Also ... there was consultation. The Prem clubs had their own planning meeting with SAWSA and the clubs were specifically asked if they needed their reserve division and almost all said no. A lot of people have known for a long time that the reserve div was going to be scrapped.

there was no consultation about toros only given 1 year in premier league,

[ballmaster]

If this is correct that most clubs made a decision to scrap the reserves than i believe clubs who voted for this killed this wonderfull game for women and they shouldn't be surprised about any backlash from players and parents. If this is not true i believe all clubs interested in sorting this mess out should stick together and put in writing their concerns and disagreement back to SAWSA.

[Tottenham Hotspur]

Just to clarify it was the SAWSA board that made these decisions NOT WC.

Also ... there was consultation. The Prem clubs had their own planning meeting with SAWSA and the clubs were specifically asked if they needed their reserve division and almost all said no. A lot of people have known for a long time that the reserve div was going to be scrapped.

And exactly what date was this meeting that has taken place? And how many clubs were there? That would be a interesting answer

[Tottenham Hotspur]

If this is correct that most clubs made a decision to scrap the reserves than i believe clubs who voted for this killed this wonderfull game for women and they shouldn't be surprised about any backlash from players and parents. If this is not true i believe all clubs interested in sorting this mess out should stick together and put in writing their concerns and disagreement back to SAWSA.

Forget SAWSA go straight to FFSA

[abbie's keeper]

Just to clarify it was the SAWSA board that made these decisions NOT WC.

Also ... there was consultation. The Prem clubs had their own planning meeting with SAWSA and the clubs were specifically asked if they needed their reserve division and almost all said no. A lot of people have known for a long time that the reserve div was going to be scrapped.

AS the delegate for TOROS, I can tell you that there was no consultation, and when was this so called planning meeting with SAWSA about the need for a reserve division? If this was the way they wanted to head so be it, but what is the sudden rush. At the very least, all prem clubs should have been given 1 season notice that the bottom team in '09 would be relegated, Toro's would have had their 2 years grace to sink or swim and all teams would have been in the fight to avoid relegation. Better still, improve the competition and expand, not shrink

[Red Tiger]

Well thats interesting because i play for c-town and we had NO IDEA we were on the verge of relegation, now i dont know if the coach knew but NONE of the players knew anything, just like we knew nothing about not playing cumberland. We played a whole game assuming its just a chance to jump para hills and get some extra points....thats it!


...and if ur sources are correct red tiger than we the players, must of been kept in the dark too, so psycologically so we wouldnt panic. Para hills shuld of been informed most definately....but then again what sort of professsional federation "calls" a club before a game sayin "hey there u guys are gonna get relegated unless uz win today". Even if Tony(the coach) was aware he most DEFINATELY didnt give anything away and wasnt acting any different to how he usually does on game day, wether it be player selection or his emotions. Honestly this is such a shamble and SAWSA is the shittest federation in australia!

And for the record the manager of sawsa SHOULD NOT even be playing/coaching a club in a league she owns and runs!!!!

Well I think the major issue here is that Campbelltown, Para Hills and Toros should all have been informed of this decision (which suppposedly was decided by delegates who themselves have been blindsided by this news)........not necessarily before a game........and most certainly the day after the season has ended.......as for your final statement........I totally back you up on this......how this has been allowed to continue is beyond me.........person in charge of the league shouldn't be in ANY way associated with any club........not even having kids that play.......it's beyond appalling that we have let this go on for this long......

As for this supposed meeting........really soccer4life......please enlighten us as to the details of this meeting......as for some reason no one else seems to have been present.........and you would think if so many people had known bout the scrapping of the reserves that news would have filtered through by now.....unfortunately for you there seem to be many in the football community who have had no idea.....our club included.......ALL clubs should have been present at this so called meeting.......so can you please clarify your statement for us all........

[bennylava]

Toros were nothing short of appauling though, to be fair.

[Red Tiger]

Toros were nothing short of appauling though, to be fair.

Well that's an interesting comment that you have raised Bennylava......Para Hills struggled their first season in the premier league.....Toros performance this year is a repeat of our path 3 seasons ago........yet now we are finally starting to make an impact on the league........with plenty more to come I can promise you.......now if we had simply been relegated back down after 1 season we would not be where we are today.......with that in mind you can't expect a club to come up from a lower division and blast their way through competition that has experience in playing at that level.......so they didn't manage to grab a point this year......you can't rule them out for this reason alone......they earned their spot in the premier league fair and square.......and were promised 2 years to build up their team......now SAWSA has gone back on it's word.....if it was up to me I would put Toros back in and add the winner of Div 1 to make it an even 10 teams.......that way we have no byes but we have another 2 teams to compete against.......this exposes more players to the prem level........if we are to go forward with soccer in this state we need to push forward and try to support players that WANT to play......not criticise and ridicule them for their lack of experience.......I applaud Toros for their efforts this year and hope for their sake and the leagues that they are put back in........its very easy to judge when part of an experienced squad......may I ask if you yourself play....?? And if so did your club have to work hard to get into the premier league.......or did you join one that was already established?? Don't take away from people who are putting in the hard work and dedication to try and make sure our lovely sport prospers.......if anything you should show some respect and take a leaf out of Toros book in terms of their determination and self belief.......

BRING TOROS BACK IN!!!

[Dr.D]

Just to clarify it was the SAWSA board that made these decisions NOT WC.

Also ... there was consultation. The Prem clubs had their own planning meeting with SAWSA and the clubs were specifically asked if they needed their reserve division and almost all said no. A lot of people have known for a long time that the reserve div was going to be scrapped.

And exactly what date was this meeting that has taken place? And how many clubs were there? That would be a interesting answer

Generally every year there is an Premier League COACHES meeting. I don't know if this meeting went ahead this year and if it did is this the meeting being referred to. Which if so would mean delegates wouldn't have been involved.

I can say that in previous years Premier Divisions Coaches ideas on whats best for the competitions have largely differed from those of the Delegates groups because they look to serve their own divisions interests over those of the whole competition.

I will say though that I have been told that apparently most coaches when asked said that they had a lot of players in their reserves teams that shouldn't be playing reserves and were basically making up numbers, that they were not in the picture to play premiers as far as they were concerned. I haven't watched any Reserves for a couple of years so cannot comment on the vailidity or truth of this statement, i'm sure many of you will disagree.

As for Fulham V Sturt Ressies game. Sturt already have a Div 2 team, as do Metro and Cumberland. They won't be able to put another team into this division.

I don't think that SAWSA envisage clubs retaining their current Reserves teams in their entirity and playing those same teams in a lower division. I think they think that in a lot of cases Prem clubs will pick their best 20 girls from their current two teams and retain those as their Prem team. It is then expected that those Reserves players cut will try their luck at other Prem clubs and/or Division 1 clubs, and therefore IF the Prem club opts to put in a Div 2 or 3 team it will still remain essentially a more social team. Whether or not it works out this way i cant say. I know that a lot of players are very loyal to their clubs and may be prepared to ride this out with them even if it means playing Div 2

[What the?]

Sorry have to agree with Bennylava.

Toros even tho they won the right to be in prems were woefull....

Red Tiger you compare them with Para Hills in their first year but at least para hills won 1 game and drew 3 in their first year in prems. Toros did not even come close to winning or even drawing in any game and only scored 2 goals in a whole season.


I really think that this would be a good move for torros to get some confidence back in Div 1 and try again in a couple of years for Prems and to build their side a bit more.

As for dropping the reserves I really think it would not matter that much. I mean your still going to have the players play just in a different div. Whats wrong with that????

[adam]

So who's for womens AFL next year with me?? any takers??

need a photographer?

[Dr.D]

Sorry have to agree with Bennylava.

Toros even tho they won the right to be in prems were woefull....

Red Tiger you compare them with Para Hills in their first year but at least para hills won 1 game and drew 3 in their first year in prems. Toros did not even come close to winning or even drawing in any game and only scored 2 goals in a whole season.


I really think that this would be a good move for torros to get some confidence back in Div 1 and try again in a couple of years for Prems and to build their side a bit more.

As for dropping the reserves I really think it would not matter that much. I mean your still going to have the players play just in a different div. Whats wrong with that????

Probably because of the movement rules. Once you play up to Prems the only division you can drop down to is Reserves. So if your Div 2 player comes up they can't go back down again

[calin]

Sorry have to agree with Bennylava.

Toros even tho they won the right to be in prems were woefull....

Red Tiger you compare them with Para Hills in their first year but at least para hills won 1 game and drew 3 in their first year in prems. Toros did not even come close to winning or even drawing in any game and only scored 2 goals in a whole season.


I really think that this would be a good move for torros to get some confidence back in Div 1 and try again in a couple of years for Prems and to build their side a bit more.

As for dropping the reserves I really think it would not matter that much. I mean your still going to have the players play just in a different div. Whats wrong with that????

Thats news to me!! I actually believe that toros performed just as well - I played quite a few games where we lost by more than 10 goals in our first season. Look how far we have come in those extra 2 years. Toros most definitely have this potential!!!

[What the?]

In the first year Para hills only ever were beaten by 10 goals by Fulham and Cumberland. All the other games were closer. They beat Gawler in the last game of the season and drew with Adelaide olympic, campbelltown and Gawler.

So I think that they did a lot better than the torros

Maybe you are thinking about reserves who yes did get beaten almost every game 15 to nil in their first season..........

[ARodgers]

I've spoken to people from at least 5 of the 'major' clubs, most of them delegates or coaches and every single one is universally pissed off about losing the reserves league. So I doubt many of them would have told SAWSA to cut ressies.

Most players at prems clubs are loyal, and want their chance to play prems, so I guarantee you that most clubs will keep the majority of their reserves players, which creates a huge problem for girls in div2/3 who are there to play socially. Gawler, one of the top teams in Div 1, struggled to beat our reserves at knights (who finished bottom with one point) in a cup game, it was a very tight, tense game that could have gone either way. If a top div 1 side struggles to beat the bottom reserves side, what are Metro, or Olympic's reserves going to do to the social girls teams in Div 2?? Metro's current div 2 side were beating sides in div 2 by cricket scores for heaven's sake.

Some reserves players will leave for other clubs (or maybe afl??? ) but most will stay, and that means the end of any meaningful competition for the social clubs in our lower divisions. I already know a good number of girls playing those divisions who are considering quitting playing entirely.

Also,

GIVE TOROS THEIR CHANCE!

[pvfc]

I've spoken to people from at least 5 of the 'major' clubs, most of them delegates or coaches and every single one is universally pissed off about losing the reserves league. So I doubt many of them would have told SAWSA to cut ressies.

Most players at prems clubs are loyal, and want their chance to play prems, so I guarantee you that most clubs will keep the majority of their reserves players, which creates a huge problem for girls in div2/3 who are there to play socially. Gawler, one of the top teams in Div 1, struggled to beat our reserves at knights (who finished bottom with one point) in a cup game, it was a very tight, tense game that could have gone either way. If a top div 1 side struggles to beat the bottom reserves side, what are Metro, or Olympic's reserves going to do to the social girls teams in Div 2?? Metro's current div 2 side were beating sides in div 2 by cricket scores for heaven's sake.

Some reserves players will leave for other clubs (or maybe afl??? ) but most will stay, and that means the end of any meaningful competition for the social clubs in our lower divisions. I already know a good number of girls playing those divisions who are considering quitting playing entirely.
Also,

GIVE TOROS THEIR CHANCE!

I think that this pretty well sums up what most people and clubs are thinking - it is not a good situation. We need all the clubs to make sure that SAWSA, and most definitely FFSA as they will actually be running next year's leagues are well aware of the universal 'rejection' of the 2009 league structure being imposed on the girls! Get writing and e-mailing everyone!