Who removed my post and why?

[Azzurri80]

Hi all,

I posted a report on a referee that I feel has brought the game into disrepute. I feel I have every right to voice my concern in this matter as it is a problem that is affecting my club in a big way. There was nothing in my message that could be deemed any worse than some of the things I've read on here before. I was looking forward to hearing from my fellow football lovers and recieving their feedback on the matter.

I thought this forum was meant to act as a voice for the issues that affect amatuer players and in some way can also work as a support network for anyone wanting advice on certain matters. Praising referee's and complaining about referee's is a part of our game that's been around for years and I don't see why such an important topic has to be wrapped in cotton wool so their feelings are spared. The topic of referee's performances is a hot topic which is discussed regularly the world over (anyone remember Graham Poll's performance Australia vs Croatia), so why should we be censored to spare the feelings of the men in yellow when their actions are the reason these questions exist.

I think removing my post is unfair and weak on behalf of the moderators. Is this forum in place to help players discuss and decide on the hard issues affecting us or is it mearly a stage to talk about lollipop bull crap, and who's teams better then the last. Pull your heads in and give us a real canvass to discuss our concerns or shut down the whole pointless exercise. For me I have enjoyed being part of this forum since joining but I won't stand for being muzzled when the issues I raise a deemed inappropriate by moderators who have taken part in or allowed much worse topics to be discussed because it was something they felt strongly about. Well what about the rest of us?

[Robbo]

If you have a complaint against a referee, write a letter to the league.

Well done mods

[Hawkesy]

Did you name the referee?

If you did then i agree it should be removed as he has no right of reply (unless he uses this forum) but if it was general questions/comments then I would make you right. Debate it, discuss it. It's what beautiful about the game.

As for Graham Poll, good on him. He obviously realised the rivalry between England and australia in sport, and tried to help out us ex pats to give us something to laugh at.

[Azzurri80]

I did name the ref because my whole point was to get feedback from anyone who's had any similar issues with him. If he does read the post I would have loved to have got his opinion on the matter as it was impossible to speak to him in person.

As for your comment Robbo, hypocrisy at it's best!

Should all the players and clubs concerned about the Black Eagles issue simply write a letter to the league and not be allowed to voice their concerns and discuss the issue on this forum.

That's the point of a forum isn't it?

[Missing Post Count]

I did name the ref because my whole point was to get feedback from anyone who's had any similar issues with him

Do you put your name to your posts?
Personally I agree with the posts above. If you have an issue take it up with the league.
Here is for general discussion.

[Azzurri80]

'Albanians are better off in Albania, their actions are normal everyday thing there'

Do you mean general comments like this one that was made in the Black Eagles post?

Apart from the fact that this comment is racist, I ask you is it fair that this person generalised and gave all Albanians a bad name because of some bad apples?

This is my point Bodo, why should I generalise and make it sound like I have an issue with all referee's when it's only one bad apple I have the problem with. It's not fair to those ref's who are good at what they do and earn the respect of players for being professional and actually loving the game they're officiating.

[Missing Post Count]

'Albanians are better off in Albania, their actions are normal everyday thing there'

Do you mean general comments like this one that was made in the Black Eagles post?

Apart from the fact that this comment is racist, I ask you is it fair that this person generalised and gave all Albanians a bad name because of some bad apples?

This is my point Bodø, why should I generalise and make it sound like I have an issue with all referee's when it's only one bad apple I have the problem with. It's not fair to those ref's who are good at what they do and earn the respect of players for being professional and actually loving the game they're officiating.

I don't condone that comment either and agree it should have been removed. I still think if you have an issue with one particular referee it should be taken up with the SAASL directly.

[eight men out]

I'd have to agree with the majority here.
Naming a Ref is probably not a good idea (ethically). Speaking about incidents I think is fine because you might find that the problem is isolated or widespread in many games. In any case consistent poor quality decisions eventuall find their way back to the league and if you send a letter to them they will work out who is responsible if there are many complaints.

Food for thought:
"The early players didn't need a referee! They were gentlemen, and any dispute could be settled by the two captains. These two gentleman then ran about the pitch, keeping an eye on matters. They had no right to interfere with the game, but could be "appealed to" by the players, just as in the game of cricket today."

http://www.gdsra.com.au/history.htm

[Azzurri80]

I'm glad you also think that comment stinks.

I want you to know that the reason I wrote the original post was so that I could recieve feedback from the guys from Unley and PAOC who were the other teams involved in the game and I also wanted to hear the views from outsiders who may have been faced with a similar prediciment.

Once again I ask, is this not the point of this forum?

[Azzurri80]

I like your food for thought. If only this could still be the case.

[darkknight]

I understand that you are frustrated with the referees, however keep in mind this is amateur sport, and as such you will not get the best referee every week, and in saying that, you should not get the worst referee every match.

Write to the league about your concerns & hopefully for your clubs sake you will not get the referee in question for the remainder of the season.

Remember, referees are human, they are entitled to make mistakes & they will! We all cop the bad decisions in every team - so unfortunately unless there is a large influx of referees coming from another planet, we all have to deal with it as best as we can.

[Hawkesy]

Remember, referees are human, they are entitled to make mistakes & they will! We all cop the bad decisions in every team - so unfortunately unless there is a large influx of referees coming from another planet, we all have to deal with it as best as we can.

One of the comments I have made in my pre game talk to captains is that. We are here to play football and have fun, we are all human and we are all amateurs. I will make mistakes, you will make mistakes. I won't berate you for yours and I expect you to offer me the same courteousy.

[Missing Post Count]

they are entitled to make mistakes

They don't even have make a mistake to get the wrath of players or supporters.

[Azzurri80]

I appreciate your thoughts and I wish you could all read the original post as it would make a lot more sense to you all. We have had the referee in question twice with our only two loses of the season coming from those two games. After the first game a complaint and request that he doesn't ref anymore of our games was made as it was obvious that there was a personal issue as his behaviour towards us was ridiculous. I don't know if he was told of this request but before the second game he officiated he came in the change room and told our players if anyone speaks to him they will be red carded. What the? This is not normal behaviour from a referee.

There is a lot more factors and details that I wrote in my original post that I can't be bothered going through again but my main concern was what happens if we get this guy again and it is in a season defining match? Do we have to just cop it on the chin and drop 3 points even if it means loosing the title? The league obviously don't care about our requests and that is why I was asking for fellow players views on the issue as I would have like to know if any other teams have had an issue with this ref and what steps if any they have taken.

[Azzurri80]

Hawkesy are you a referee?

[Hawkesy]

Hawkesy are you a referee?

I am qualified yes, although I am not actively a referree, apart from the occasional game to help some sides out. Happy for you to PM me and I'll try and give a qualified opinion.

Alternatively, repost your comments but don't mention the specifics. I would imagine the only concern mods had was the specific naming of the guy (apologies mods if this is not correct and you feel the need to still delete)

[On The Pine]

'Albanians are better off in Albania, their actions are normal everyday thing there'

Do you mean general comments like this one that was made in the Black Eagles post?

Apart from the fact that this comment is racist, I ask you is it fair that this person generalised and gave all Albanians a bad name because of some bad apples?

This is my point Bodo, why should I generalise and make it sound like I have an issue with all referee's when it's only one bad apple I have the problem with. It's not fair to those ref's who are good at what they do and earn the respect of players for being professional and actually loving the game they're officiating.

If you read on in that thread I actually spoke out about that comment and everyone else agreed. It wasn't acceptable.

As for your post, I did see it before it got taken down and whilst there were some good points and you were clearly just looking for some feedback (rather than attacking someone) I did think it was a little inappropriate that you named the ref, told us what he did for a living and gave a roundabout location of where he lived. You may not be a nutter but somebody else out there reading the thread might be and if referees were to see that sort of information being posted about them I think that they would be fairly concerned about their safety.

Had that not been in the thread I am sure it would have remained. As for your ref drama, I agree that requesting that you don't get that particular ref would be a good place to start.

[darkknight]

Azzuri08, I will say this, some years ago, our club placed an official complaint about a particular referee after a terrible game (which we still won), however one of our players had suffered a broken leg due to the inconsistent decisions of that referee (who had allowed terrible tackles from behind take place one way only!). Anyway, our report went in, I was called into the league to discuss my arguments & the league would make a decision regarding our complaint.

Anyway 2 matches later, we get this same referee - who I do not believe saw the letter of complaint, however his refereeing of this following match was worse - in that one of players had suffered a dislocated ankle from another shocking tackle - and what did the referee do about it......

....he wanted to RED CARD the player who was down with his foot dangling from being dislocated, he would not allow any medical support from the sideline, and advised any player (from both teams) that assisted him off the field would not be allowed to return on the field.

Again a report went into the league, this time with comments from the opposing team & we were fortunate enough to avoid this referee for around a year. We still get him now, and his decisions are still poor as a whole, but like everyone else, we have to live with the fact that there are not enough referees out there!

[Azzurri80]

The comments you made to the two captains are the type of words that gain referee's respect the second the players walk on the park so good on you. I have a favourite ref in the league and he makes these exact same comments to the whole team before every match and because of this, even if he does make a mistake it's a little easier to accept because he has already made that human connection with the players before the game therefore his respected for being human. I do not understand why anyone would referee unless they had a genuine love and passion for the game. To use it as a self indulgent power trip is pathetic and reflects poorly on that individuals character and miserable spirit.

As for the moderators; people mention names on these posts every day good and bad, why should ref's be any different? If the person in question has done enough to offend someone why shouldn't they be named. He has every right to defend himself on here so I say name the shamers and let them get on here and defend their actions.

[Azzurri80]

Sorry guys that last post was directed to Hawksey.

On the Pine my comments were made as a joke, I don't know what he does for a living, or where he lives, I mearly meant it as a joke because I would like to know what he's doing for a living and where he lives. I agree with you to a certain extent but I still believe there is no harm in naming him. As a reference to my earlier comments, was Graham Poll spared being named by the press for his calamity of errors? No, so why should this ref be spared the embarrassment of being named.

Darkknight as for your comments, this is my point exactly! Referee's jobs are to keep order in what is a very passionate game. They are also there to protect players from season ending and career ending injuries. This referee you speak of is an absolute disgrace and in my opinion should not only be named and shamed but also stripped of his licence and banned from officiating forever! It pains me that players are regulated by a certain code of conduct and if that code of conduct is not adhered to the penalties are often swift and harsh, regardless of the intent. Why are referee's not put under the same kind of scrutiny? Why do they not have supervisers come and apraise their performances. If they did there would be less injuries, less games decided by their own whistle and less football violence. Maybe the Referee Federation has to put their hand up and be responsible for providing these ref's with better training and performance checks.

[On The Pine]

Once again though, it only takes one nutter. My guess is if referees were getting named on here we would soon find an even bigger shortage than we already have.

[Azzurri80]

Point taken, but I believe the best way for them to avoid this is for them to do their job right. Most players are generally tolerant of minor bad decisions because we understand human error is inevitable, however when you loose three players to red cards in a cup game for trying to ask questions and then have the game called off without reason in the 80th minute after the oppositon go 2-1 up, you can't help but pose the question regarding this referee's intentions.

[On The Pine]

Point taken, but I believe the best way for them to avoid this is for them to do their job right. Most players are generally tolerant of minor bad decisions because we understand human error is inevitable, however when you loose three players to red cards in a cup game for trying to ask questions and then have the game called off without reason in the 80th minute after the oppositon go 2-1 up, you can't help but pose the question regarding this referee's intentions.

I totally agree. I think if all clubs do their jobs and make a report on referees that are particularly bad, then the league should start to recognise those that aren't doing their jobs and hopefully rectify it. Generally this year we haven't had too many problems, aside the odd perplexing decision, but the few we have had that have been bad have at least been consistently bad. There is nothing more frustrating than when you feel there is a different set of rules for the two teams. Good luck getting it sorted.

[Between the Sticks]

I agree with Azzuri on certain points. The first thing id like to add is that these guys can and have made the difference between promotion, relegation etc etc and i can understand the frustration people feel when the appear to be regularly hard done by less than ordinary decisions. Yes i appreciate they are human and would not like to see any physical harm come to them nor do i believe anyone else here would. However they do not referee for free!! They are paid for their services and as such should be subject to performance based criticism as any paid employee would. Yes send a letter to the league if you want to but everyone knows how far that'll get you. There is nowhere on this forum where it says 'referees not allowed' and im sure they're comments and involvement here would go a lot further to establish mutual respect and understanding than any pay rise! Id love to see them here giving as good as they get. Just remember to supply some with brail keyboards

[Azzurri80]

Thanks On the Pine, but I'm not holding my breath.

Handy_man I couldn't have said it better myself.

I just want to say if any of you out there are from Unley A's or PAOC I would like to hear your comments about this ref as the games I am talking about were the Windsor Gardens fixtures this season. I would appreciate your honest opinions on whether you thought this ref was shocking. I should mention also that in my original post I did mention that both PAOC and Unley played fairly and deserved the win so please don't take this as an attack on you or the result, it's primarily a discussion about the referee's heavy handed tactics.

Also I would like to ask the moderators if there is anyway I can get a copy of the original post I wrote as my team would like to see it and it may be used for further correspondence with the league.

[Tricky Tree]

I see no problem with naming the ref, but any further personal details are not acceptable. Keep to the facts if you want genuine discussion on the matter.

If the attitude you're detailing is correct, then it does appear that this ref is not up to the job of fairly controlling the game. All good refs are able to allow both sides to enjoy the game, so his comments before the match that you have detailed here are extremely poor and surely of great interest to the league. Nobody deserves to be spoken to that way before a game - surely his decisions are clouded by personal opinion or bias.

I'd agree that this forum is a good place to seek some discussion on the problem from other players and clubs. I'd hate to see someone with power over the result affecting an important match for you later on.

A good ref should be OK with people questioning his role - yes, we all make mistakes and put in a bad performance, but in football the officials have a large influence over critical points within the game - he should be accountable for how he conducts himself, regardless of the standard or financial reward.

Good luck with solving the problem!

[Knight7]

I haven't read all the posts from Azzurri in great detail as there are quite a few - so if I have missed this I'm sorry - however surely it's Common Sense that you don't go about naming a "bad referee" - the only exception would be as a very, very last resort. If you had contacted the other teams directly - not hard to work out how and also contacted the League and nothing had happened then perhaps it might just about be acceptable but to try and gather support against a particular referee via a Public Forum is not on. We had problems with a referee this year (over 35's) and had him again on Sunday - we had problems in the first half and I spoke to him - wasn't heated, wasn't nasty simply said if we had offended him I was sorry and I was looking forward to a more enjoyable second half. He was far better in the second half and I thanked him after the game -if we get him again I'm pretty sure he will be fine - perhaps try a different method

[Azzurri80]

Point taken Knight7, the logical option would be to do what you have done and credit to the ref for taking on board what you said to him, however the referee in question is not approachable before, during, halfway or after the match as we tried and were promptly threatened with punishment if we were to walk within 2 metres of his vicinity. I will mention that after both games he officiated both rival teams spoke to us and sympathized with us after the match. I remember one player from PAOC saying to us 'Geez this guy really hates you blokes doesn't he' after the match, so for it to be obvious to the opposition team this tells us it's personal.

As for naming him I didn't realise it was such an issue otherwise I wouldn't have, I simply did it so anyone from another team who has had the same problem would know who I'm talking about and not confuse him with another ref. I read of players and ref's being named on here all the time so I didn't think it wasn't allowed.

[De Voyeur]

Obviously a good topic Azzuri80; three people have lost their posting virginity for a rite of reply.

[Knight7]

Point taken Knight7, the logical option would be to do what you have done and credit to the ref for taking on board what you said to him, however the referee in question is not approachable before, during, halfway or after the match as we tried and were promptly threatened with punishment if we were to walk within 2 metres of his vicinity. I will mention that after both games he officiated both rival teams spoke to us and sympathized with us after the match. I remember one player from PAOC saying to us 'Geez this guy really hates you blokes doesn't he' after the match, so for it to be obvious to the opposition team this tells us it's personal.

As for naming him I didn't realise it was such an issue otherwise I wouldn't have, I simply did it so anyone from another team who has had the same problem would know who I'm talking about and not confuse him with another ref. I read of players and ref's being named on here all the time so I didn't think it wasn't allowed.

Yes true, some referee's threaten to book you for going near them shame but perhaps they have had people have a go at them before anyway we all know the league read this site, so your approach might just work