E&D

[BIG RED]

[The Boss]

Anyone heard about the E&D looking to changes to there modified rules set up?

Are they softening there stance?

E&D will be reassessing the modified rules which they do from time to time anyway. I don't think it is a matter of softening their stance but SSG has probably prompted a review. I (and many others) don't believe SSG is the total answer but there is room for improvement in incorporating ideas from all avenues. Modified rules is far from perfect too and needs some fine tuning for U6-U9. 10's onward, I personally would leave alone as it is a proven formula.

[johnydep]

Anyone heard about the E&D looking to changes to there modified rules set up?

Are they softening there stance?

E&D will be reassessing the modified rules which they do from time to time anyway. I don't think it is a matter of softening their stance but SSG has probably prompted a review. I (and many others) don't believe SSG is the total answer but there is room for improvement in incorporating ideas from all avenues. Modified rules is far from perfect too and needs some fine tuning for U6-U9. 10's onward, I personally would leave alone as it is a proven formula.

Proven by who, the Brazilian's, the Italian's, Dutch, French?

I suppose it depends on what your developing in a youth player;

• athletic skills ie running, long ball kicking, etc
  or
  passing, recieving, dribbling, etc.

I would like to see E&D stick to what is has so that in two or three years we can compare the two systems; side by side.

[povman_2009]

A very scientific approach there, JD, sadly the only way you could truly compare the results is to extensively test the kids before hand , and put a known sample into each program and monitor their process.

I think we can safely assume that given the current management of E&D there will be no expansive moves to incorporate SSG any time soon.

[MegaBonus]

some people might interpret the following as divisive and even racist but i can assure you i have the game at heart. there is no one answer, nor is there right or wrong because good players develop from within weak youth systems and vice versa. so in my opinion, there is only "a better way of doing something"...

are we still seriously (some of us anyway) questioning the merits of SSG???????

no need to test anything, results are staring us in the face!!!

all powerhouse nations, that is world cup winners (except england - granted things are changing. im expecting an argument here from some, - looking at you B Toomer- last 2 national coaches, % of foreigners in the EPL, relative failure of the national team etc etc) are devotees to the SSG philosophy especially the sth americans and the european countries (latin) france, italy and the dutch.

how many world class technically gifted playmakers has australia produced???? of the current generation who stands out.... bresciano and grella. what ethnic group did these players grow up within???? coincidence or not???

even war ravaged, economically deprived 3rd world countries in both africa and sth and central america produce technically better players. you will find that their colonial masters have influenced their footballing philosophy eg the french and dutch in africa and the spanish and portoguese in sth america.

i know its too simple to suggest that the british colonies aust, nz, usa, sth africa, canada which have experienced very little fotballing success have done so because of the british influence. football is not the number 1 sport in any one of these countries and their 1st world status (except sth africa) and relative wealth might mean that 'street football' with all the chaos element has been replaced by structured, disciplined training sessions.

most E&D clubs are backed by which ethnic group???

im now waiting for those who believe im unfairly criticising british football to have a go but if you do, support it with facts not emotions

[Mr DJ]

some people might interpret the following as divisive and even racist but i can assure you i have the game at heart. there is no one answer, nor is there right or wrong because good players develop from within weak youth systems and vice versa. so in my opinion, there is only "a better way of doing something"...

are we still seriously (some of us anyway) questioning the merits of SSG???????

no need to test anything, results are staring us in the face!!!

all powerhouse nations, that is world cup winners (except england - granted things are changing. im expecting an argument here from some, - looking at you B Toomer- last 2 national coaches, % of foreigners in the EPL, relative failure of the national team etc etc) are devotees to the SSG philosophy especially the sth americans and the european countries (latin) france, italy and the dutch.

how many world class technically gifted playmakers has australia produced???? of the current generation who stands out.... bresciano and grella. what ethnic group did these players grow up within???? coincidence or not???

even war ravaged, economically deprived 3rd world countries in both africa and sth and central america produce technically better players. you will find that their colonial masters have influenced their footballing philosophy eg the french and dutch in africa and the spanish and portoguese in sth america.

i know its too simple to suggest that the british colonies aust, nz, usa, sth africa, canada which have experienced very little fotballing success have done so because of the british influence. football is not the number 1 sport in any one of these countries and their 1st world status (except sth africa) and relative wealth might mean that 'street football' with all the chaos element has been replaced by structured, disciplined training sessions.

most E&D clubs are backed by which ethnic group???

im now waiting for those who believe im unfairly criticising british football to have a go but if you do, support it with facts not emotions

i wouldnt say racist.
as far as the latin american and african countries go, as a possibility, could poverty have any influence? im not too up to date on how these countries are financially but what else do those kids have? doubt many kids in africa grow up playing fifa or grand theft auto.
bit off the main topic but yeah.

johnydep, could look at the success of E&D at the zone level to say that they are at least a vast improvement in level over the other associations.

[The Boss]

I would like to see E&D stick to what is has so that in two or three years we can compare the two systems; side by side.

Johnny Dep, as Mr DJ said you don't have to wait, let's do the comparison now and then another in a few years time and see who comes out on top. I CAN'T WAIT. The E&D modified rules system produces superior kids up to about 15 years of age when they decide to leave and bolster your competetion. Look back at the state championship results for the last 30 years and then tell me who has the best system. The problem with most of you and the FFSA is (and you openly admit it) is that you know very little of the E&D system and competition but feel you are experts on the matter.
I challenge anyone to name an international player that has come through the "SSG" concept as it is being introduced, not the "street soccer" or "mini soccer" or whatever guise you wish to hide behind. For starters, the current "concept" has only been around for 13 years so we may have to wait a bit longer. Not one Brazilian or African child has played SSG in this format, you are all confusing it with CULTURE.
CULTURE can not be replicated, it is instilled in your upbringing, it is a way of life for these children. Throwing 8 Aussie kids on a pitch and letting them go for it for 15 minutes will never reproduce the quality that these kids have developed through their childhood.

[fossil]

I would like to see E&D stick to what is has so that in two or three years we can compare the two systems; side by side.

Johnny Dep, as Mr DJ said you don't have to wait, let's do the comparison now and then another in a few years time and see who comes out on top. I CAN'T WAIT. The E&D modified rules system produces superior kids up to about 15 years of age when they decide to leave and bolster your competetion. Look back at the state championship results for the last 30 years and then tell me who has the best system. The problem with most of you and the FFSA is (and you openly admit it) is that you know very little of the E&D system and competition but feel you are experts on the matter.
I challenge anyone to name an international player that has come through the "SSG" concept as it is being introduced, not the "street soccer" or "mini soccer" or whatever guise you wish to hide behind. For starters, the current "concept" has only been around for 13 years so we may have to wait a bit longer. Not one Brazilian or African child has played SSG in this format, you are all confusing it with CULTURE.
CULTURE can not be replicated, it is instilled in your upbringing, it is a way of life for these children. Throwing 8 Aussie kids on a pitch and letting them go for it for 15 minutes will never reproduce the quality that these kids have developed through their childhood.

the systems are very different in several areas both have good and bad points. seeing first hand its showing this; that the current FFSA sytem has been allowed to be manipulated by clubs at all levels, the rules of competition are flouted each week end, just look at the clubs who can't field teams each weekend and are allowed to catch up the game when the players come back down from the older age group.

the FFSA is supposed to be the next level up but does it lead at all levels?

2 years ago E&D had coaches and player technincal areas were enforced to all ages, interchange is only from the centre of pitch, they have a very hard line on how the comp is played and card checks are done at random by the powers at will without notice (they just walk up while your warming up and ask for a line up).

level O coaching licences have been the norm for the last 6 years and you needed it to be able to do the 6 - 8 year olds after that you needed a level 1 or higher.
look at the basics and E&D kills the FFSA, but don't take my word for it get out and try it first hand and not by looking at just one match really look, the comparison is there already. (how many kids can't throw in a ball correctly? seen the blue eagles 15's and adelaide city 16's teams fail miserably at it on the weekend and they weren't corrected)

sure the fed system has more flexibility on training and hot weather, but they have the holy grail if your not in the FFSA system by 13 your going to struggle to get the national pathways and until the 2 groups allowed the same ages to play against each other its "I'm better than you".

Ask how many kids start in E&D and move over after 12, with the first year in fed system being the hardest as E&D protect kids from heavy contact and use of the body compared to fed, but when they get used to it the players normally fit straight in.

some FFSA clubs have the golden carrot of good facilities (good luck to them) which always helps, while some E&D teams play out of council sheds and school grounds, but they produce good quality players.
will SSG help E&D and FFSA possibly ask again in 5 years thats when the 6yr old reaches 11yr.

good coaching, guidence and assistance is the key, take some time compare the competitions structures and how they work you will have your answer by the end of the year, if you take the blind folds off.

[Jeda]

some of you guys are so up yourselves you're in the dark

e&d produces so many champs they're every where

30 years of state champs? sorry missed those got some more info

[rus217]

just let the kids play

problems with sport now a days to many parents have there say and winge

[MegaBonus]

The Boss Post subject: Re: E&DPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:27 pm

I challenge anyone to name an international player that has come through the "SSG" concept as it is being introduced, not the "street soccer" or "mini soccer" or whatever guise you wish to hide behind. For starters, the current "concept" has only been around for 13 years so we may have to wait a bit longer. Not one Brazilian or African child has played SSG in this format, you are all confusing it with CULTURE.

no disrespect but i believe you dont understand the SSG philosophy (many make the same mistake). SSG is not just about the game plaed on a sat or sun against opposition.

the philosophy re:SSG is that it resembles the games as played by young children when growing up. limited rules, experimentation, risk taking, development of he individual. call it what yo want, stree football, park football, back yard football and even chaos football.

the underlying principle is that the 'best teacher of the game is the game itself!!' with this in mind, organised training should as often as possible allow young players to replicate these SSG. eliminate as much as possible the 3 L's - laps, lines and lectures!

[johnydep]

just let the kids play

problems with sport now a days to many parents have there say and winge

Spot on!

I'm involved with both types of junior games; traditional and SSG. This is the first year of SSG and yes there is some disorganisation with pitch size, rules, etc but putting that aside, the kids play their own game and love it.

As Megabonus has pointed out; the kids do things using their own initiative, they experiment and try things out, with no pressure.

Well that's how it should be, there are still adults that can't help but give a continued dialogue of instructions; that must stop.

One 5v5 game I refereed had 3 parents and the coach calling out instructions, I felt sorry for the kids and had a quiet word to the coach at half time.

The idea of SSG is to let the kids play there own game, win or lose it does not matter. What matters is that they learn as they play.

Watch the Horst Wein video.

the underlying principle is that the 'best teacher of the game is the game itself!!' with this in mind, organised training should as often as possible allow young players to replicate these SSG. eliminate as much as possible the 3 L's - laps, lines and lectures!

[BIG RED]

[The Boss]

some of you guys are so up yourselves you're in the dark

e&d produces so many champs they're every where

30 years of state champs? sorry missed those got some more info

Like I keep telling you guys, do some research and get your heads out of the sand.
Check with SAJSA or have a look at the E&D website if you want to see some results.
Why don't you name some champs that have come through the Fed system as juniors and have made it.
But don't include the successful players that have made AU etc, that started their junior soccer in associations which have modified rules. It will be a very short list.

[BIG RED]

[teddles]

have a look at the E&D website

Got a link to the website? Google's being a bit dense this morning.

[The Boss]

have a look at the E&D website

Got a link to the website? Google's being a bit dense this morning.

http://www.elizdists.com.au/zone.html

[The Boss]

IMO old fella comparisons isnt the issue, whats best for the kids or what could be made better for the kids is - keep the focus

I agree entirely.
Unfortunately, every time you post a comment on this site, even if it is positive you get people that want to shoot you down and make comparisons. If people are going to throw stones expect to get rocks thrown back and make sure you are not in a glass-house at the time.
I also believe the title of this particular forum is "E&D", not "SSG" or "FFSA", but people insist on changing the topic when someone asks a legitimate question.

[MegaBonus]

Under 15 Open

Arthur Minathinpolous Coach

theres only 1 greek on the coaching staff and you cant get the name right

i'll tell him, next time i see him!!!

say hello to 'longe' as well

what a small 'footballing' world.

[The Boss]

Under 15 Open

Arthur Minathinpolous Coach

theres only 1 greek on the coaching staff and you cant get the name right

i'll tell him, next time i see him!!!

say hello to 'longe' as well

what a small 'footballing' world.

Arthur and Chris are both great guys. Chris has been very successful with his Zones campaign, winning his age group for the last 3 years. I hope Arthur goes well this year too.

[teddles]

have a look at the E&D website

Got a link to the website? Google's being a bit dense this morning.

http://www.elizdists.com.au/zone.html

Thanks. I've often wondered what this E&D thing was. Sounds like it's a far better organisation than the southern mob

[johnydep]

IMO old fella comparisons isnt the issue, whats best for the kids or what could be made better for the kids is - keep the focus

I agree entirely.
Unfortunately, every time you post a comment on this site, even if it is positive you get people that want to shoot you down and make comparisons. If people are going to throw stones expect to get rocks thrown back and make sure you are not in a glass-house at the time.
I also believe the title of this particular forum is "E&D", not "SSG" or "FFSA", but people insist on changing the topic when someone asks a legitimate question.

The Federation and SSG has been mentioned many times on this thread, by people involved with E&D; to most people that means this is an open conversation.

If you want to run a closed shop with no comments from anyone but your own, so be it.

Goodbye and good luck.

[DL16.]

I coached from U6 to U11 Through the E&D system found their modified rules to be ok. IF you coach a team properly and play SSG as part of your training regime then the skills used in training should replicate them selves on the park on a Saturday morning. You continue to develop the skills of the game through training and playing games to put them into practise. Right through the modified age it should be about development, mind you I have come across a few coaches at U8-9 who were playing for sheep stations; happens everywhere I guess

[Mr DJ]

there is points for both. ssg is an issue that is important to everyone involved in e&d as to whether or when we adopt it. yet yes, originally i started the thread for news on clubs players and matches.

[The Boss]

The Federation and SSG has been mentioned many times on this thread, by people involved with E&D; to most people that means this is an open conversation.

If you want to run a closed shop with no comments from anyone but your own, so be it.
Goodbye and good luck.

Nothing wrong with open discussion and ideas being thrown up in the interest of junior soccer.
I don't like the fact that some people hop on to this forum just to bag E&D without adding anything constructive or news worthy.

[povman_2009]

DL 16 , can you please repost your comments without that photo, I am having trouble reading it...

[Mr DJ]

DL 16 , can you please repost your comments without that photo, I am having trouble reading it...

there was more than just a photo there????

[Football_lad]

I Coach an under 10 E&D Side at the moment who are becoming quite successful and are playing great soccer. i think that as said above, if small sided games are introduced into trainings etc and the skills are being learnt, i think they can easily be implemented onto the pitch on Saturdays. My team have been taught the usage of space from a young age and now they are playing on the large pitch they know how to use the pitch and also how to pass the ball and use the pitch effectively. Everyone gets a go and everyone gets a fair piece of the ball. I think it comes down to the coaching ability and if you ask me that is one area where E&D lacks in some clubs. Instead of some of you morons knocking the E&D how about you have a look at some of the games. Please i would love you to come and see my team play and point out to me which kid isnt getting a go or isnt having a go at a few different spots on the park. Its nothing to do with the federation itself and i completely back the E&D because i believe the kids need to play SOCCER not SSGs untill they ar 14. I think it comes down to the ability of the coach to get all his players involved in the game and have the ability to use the pitch as a positive rather than a negative.

None of my kids are unhappy with their amount of game time or ball contact and each and every child is enjoying their season. E&D have made a wise choice IMO and i think you will start to see a number of kids not going to federation or coming back to E&D system. I wonder how long that will last when FFSA realises the are losing a bit of money!

[Željko Jurin]

I Coach an under 10 E&D Side at the moment who are becoming quite successful and are playing great soccer. i think that as said above, if small sided games are introduced into trainings etc and the skills are being learnt, i think they can easily be implemented onto the pitch on Saturdays. My team have been taught the usage of space from a young age and now they are playing on the large pitch they know how to use the pitch and also how to pass the ball and use the pitch effectively. Everyone gets a go and everyone gets a fair piece of the ball. I think it comes down to the coaching ability and if you ask me that is one area where E&D lacks in some clubs. Instead of some of you morons knocking the E&D how about you have a look at some of the games. Please i would love you to come and see my team play and point out to me which kid isnt getting a go or isnt having a go at a few different spots on the park. Its nothing to do with the federation itself and i completely back the E&D because i believe the kids need to play SOCCER not SSGs untill they ar 14. I think it comes down to the ability of the coach to get all his players involved in the game and have the ability to use the pitch as a positive rather than a negative.

None of my kids are unhappy with their amount of game time or ball contact and each and every child is enjoying their season. E&D have made a wise choice IMO and i think you will start to see a number of kids not going to federation or coming back to E&D system. I wonder how long that will last when FFSA realises the are losing a bit of money!

Just a question, if they "werent" that successful, therefore not getting as much of the ball, do you think they would still be enjoying it as much ???
It's not a dig, because not all teams are successful, and at this age it's about enjoyment for EVERY kid, playing at EVERY club, in EVERY team

[Football_lad]

And a team not doing so well in this SSG idea would be any different? as i said i thin k it comes down to the coaching!