SAASL AGM

Jay Walking · Post by **Jay Walking** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:50 pm

If clubs want to be serious in the league then having a couple of people do a one day training course so that they can ref the ressies isn't a big ask. If it is, you should be playing Div 6 with one team.

I'm not saying its easy. We struggle to find people to help out all the time.

As for the Nugget v Marooned show down, I think every club, including my own is guilty in some way. Gardens and Downs are intimitading places to play at, let alone referee. Everyone can do better in their treatment of referees. This shouldn't be a blame game.

Nugget, if this isn't a way of solving the referee problem, then what is?

nugget66 · Post by **nugget66** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:00 pm

Jay I believe having club referee's do the reserves isn't the answer some cheat & the ones that dont get accused of cheating from other clubs youv'e seen it. We need to attract more people to become referee's & poach federation & other accociations referee's that is the only answer! How??? pay more money!!! be the highest paying competition for referee's 1st Div. especially then they will come out of the woodwork! We would pay $120 may-be more to get quality. Then you can have a grading system where the best referee's get the most money & the best games but make them accountable if they have a couple of shockers down they go on less money till they improve & the reverse if they have had a few good games in lower grades send them up.

Ga Pala · Post by **Ga Pala** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:46 pm

I agree with the call that the abuse dished out to refs is a disgrace and we all know the clubs that have these issues.Its quite easy how you improve discipline at such clubs . Send out amateur league reps to trouble clubs to see it for themselves and fine the Shiite out of them and if this doesnt work I dont care if your downs or if your timbuktoo you get kicked out of the league- its as bloody simple as that.

Nugget Your point about paying refs top dollar to referee amateur league is spot on. The amatuer league has a lot of money believe me and they are a non profit organisation so show the money and you will get more refs no doubt.

Also dont accept a trillion new clubs into the league evry year ,that only worsens the referee situation.

ExtraTime · Post by **ExtraTime** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:37 pm

the referre problem isnt alone in sa soccer. most sports in the state have inadequate numbers in ppl officating . i know for a fact even the sanfl are struggling to fill all grades for umpires, the saafl for years have had club umpires for reserves games .

the sanfl have even implemented programs into schools to increase umpires.

what can the saasl do ....what career path do they offer??? do they join forces with ffsa and create a program within schools/uni

for everyone to say " their club has a cheating ref " yes some do but they cant win ... if a 50/50 call goes the home team their a cheat . if they call it against their team " their a prick"

do the saasl ref's have an association .. do they have programs like bring a friend and see if they want to ref.

do clubs encourage ref's into their clubrooms for drinks after ..

we all have the answers here

and yes i have ref a couple of home games but also have umpired at the highest level in football( the oval shape one)

Uncle Cracker · Post by **Uncle Cracker** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:39 pm

[quote="Jay Walking"]If clubs want to be serious in the league then having a couple of people do a one day training course so that they can ref the ressies isn't a big ask. If it is, you should be playing Div 6 with one team.

Did they say when the training course is going to be held??

The GREEN & GOLD · Post by **The GREEN & GOLD** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:42 pm

Some interesting concepts. The money factor could be enough to get b team refs. Clubs will need personell. what was the figure offered?

Missing Post Count · Post by **Missing Post Count** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:55 pm

Hawkesy wrote:Comets struggled to put 11 players on the pitch most weeks, let alone a linesman as well. They forefeited a few reserve games as well as turning up with 8/9 for a few.

I kind of got that impression too, although watching two first team and two reserve team games isn't enough to base an argument on. When the coach asked me to run the line against Fc Adelaide he asked everyone in the hope that he wouldn't get stuck with it.

Hopefully they'll have the numbers next season.

nugget66 · Post by **nugget66** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:46 am

How hard is it? the amateur league allocated $50,000. to spend on improving referee numbers. I think we paid 1st Div. referee's $65. for a reserve game & $75. for a 1st team game last season. I think a super league referee gets $110 a game. If we increased 1st Div ONLY. say to $130 per game. They would be banging down the doors to referee 1st Div. amateur games & you would get quality referee's MONEY TALKS! The league could pay $55 clubs to pay same $75. The $55 is cheaper than paying $65 for a club reserve referee? You could also have it on a scale where 1st Div. gets $130, 2nd Div. gets $90 & so on. Then make the referee's accountable to the clubs paying there wages, clubs fill out reports if they get to many bad reports they get dropped to the lower division & there wage drops & the 2nd Div. referees with good reports go up. I might even consider putting up with the abuse for $130 cash for 90 mins work! A good referee could make $200 cash on a sunday for 3hrs work?

The South Australian Amateur Soccer League have a Million dollars in the bank & that should get at least 6% p.a which = $60,000 per year spend that on improving referee's QUALITY & NUMBERS & I bet that would fix it or greatly improve the problem! how many ex players would consider the career move just for the money?

Brown paper bag crew · Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:52 am

Nugget (It is fun to bold isnt it) In theory you are correct, but as has been stated many times, people have said they will not ref certain SAASL games, no matter what they were paid. The lack of refs isnt down to the 1 fact that they are not being paid enough, its that they do not wish to ref games where they are threatened and abused every game.

The only way to fix this issue, and make refereeing more appealing, the onus is back on the clubs to clean up their act. If clubs are forced to supply their own refs, only after that ref has received the appropriate training, then not only does that cut the chances of the home team abusing the ref, the fact that the SAASL are also sending an assesor to each game means that if the away team decides to play up, they will be reported for it.

In the end it may take time, but this will ensure all clubs learn to treat the refs with more respect, and in turn refereeing amauter games will become more appealing for official refs and so on. Your idea is only a quick fix, and more money thrown at good refs only means that in a years time after poorly behaved teams continue the abuse, the new refs will also pack up and leave, and the reputation of the amatuer league will have spread further

ExtraTime · Post by **ExtraTime** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:33 am

[quote="nugget66"]How hard is it? the amateur league allocated $50,000. to spend on improving referee numbers. I think we paid 1st Div. referee's $65. for a reserve game & $75. for a 1st team game last season. I think a super league referee gets $110 a game. If we increased 1st Div ONLY. say to $130 per game. They would be banging down the doors to referee 1st Div. amateur games & you would get quality referee's [b]MONEY TALKS![/b] The league could pay $55 clubs to pay same $75. The $55 is cheaper than paying $65 for a club reserve referee? You could also have it on a scale where 1st Div. gets $130, 2nd Div. gets $90 & so on. Then make the referee's accountable to the clubs paying there wages, clubs fill out reports if they get to many bad reports they get dropped to the lower division & there wage drops & the 2nd Div. referees with good reports go up. I might even consider putting up with the abuse for [b]$130 cash for 90 mins work![/b] A good referee could make $200 cash on a sunday for 3hrs work?

is it just 90 mins work ??
lets also consider training sessions , courses , travelling to and from work
do ref's need to appear if a player recieves red card for tribunal sittings..

the funny thing is why is the SAASL asking all the clubs to help..

shouldnt some of the onus be on the refs association
shouldnt they have a strategic plan in place and present it to the league and clubs.

[b]The South Australian Amateur Soccer League have a Million dollars in the bank & that should get at least 6% p.a which = $60,000 per year spend that on improving referee's QUALITY & NUMBERS & I bet that would fix it or greatly improve the problem! [/b] how many ex players would consider the career move just for the money?[/quote]

Jay Walking · Post by **Jay Walking** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:27 am

I'm not saying that referees in Div 1, 2 and 3 shouldn't get more money. But would anyone here who has said pay the referees more money, lets say $150 a game, go and become a referee. I know I wouldn't.

What we are talking about here also in the reserves, not the first team. The idea is to give people the chance to get a taste of refereeing their club in an enviroment which makes them feel more comfortable. Should they enjoy it, they can move on to the refereeing first team

Your club Nugget is a great example. You had a guy who had some limited training in refereeing, did the reserves game against us and whilst he wasn't perfect, he did an excellent job. Its this sort of situation that the league is trying to get.

The reality is that in a few years, the current Div 1 & 2 referees wouldn't be able to referee due to age. You can't just go get an ex player to take up refereeing this year and then expect him to be able to do Div 1 & 2. They would need as a minimum 3 years experience plus extra training and qualifications.

Uncle Cracker, dates haven't been set yet but they will be held in February and March

swannsong · Post by **swannsong** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:07 pm

is it just 90 mins work ??
lets also consider training sessions , courses , travelling to and from work
do ref's need to appear if a player recieves red card for tribunal sittings..

the funny thing is why is the SAASL asking all the clubs to help..

After playing SAASL for 22 years I went on to referee for 3 seasons and found it reasonably enjoyable. I became fitter than I had been as a player.
If there was one complaint it would have to be about costant abuse from senior club members, officials and coaches.
Spectators hear these people firing tirades at the referees and follow suit.

To referee is not a 90 minute proposition.
You should arrive at the game ~30 minutes beforehand, the game + half time + injury time can be closer to 110 minutes, then theres 30 minutes after the game. Add on 60 minutes to get to and from the game, petrol costs. You are looking at ~4 hours so you can basically write off the whole afternoon.
I remember on one occasion refereeing 5 games on one weekend + 1 as linesman. It was rewarding financially but I couldn't run for 5 days after.

nugget66 · Post by **nugget66** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:39 am

We have to pay the same as SUPER LEAGUE if not more if we want to attract QUALITY REFEREE'S into the 1ST DIV.

I'm not looking for the quick fix, I am looking for the smart one. If we did attract some QUALITY REFEREE'S by paying the MONEY thats NEEDED in the 1ST DIVISION. That would ease the load.

Missing Post Count · Post by **Missing Post Count** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:03 am

nugget66 wrote:We have to pay the same as SUPER LEAGUE if not more if we want to attract QUALITY REFEREE'S into the 1ST DIV.

I'm not looking for the quick fix, I am looking for the smart one. If we did attract some QUALITY REFEREE'S by paying the MONEY thats NEEDED in the 1ST DIVISION. That would ease the load.

Nugget you've missed something. A lot of these referees have stressed money is not the issue.
_________________
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diegom wrote:Is BodÃ¸ a post port??? Probably Not, although U do seem to POP up everywhere!

This post has never been edited by BodÃ¸ Glimt and certainly wasn't on 2007/12/08 (Sat), 10:03; edited 0 times in total

Aldo Serena · Post by **Aldo Serena** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:05 pm

Referees issue is always going to be a hot one, and throwing money at the issue is not going to solve anything. I agree with the old adage 'you pay peanuts, you get monkeys', but the referee numbers are just not out there. I think the SAASL's current idea is a good one and definitely worth trialling - if it doesn't work, then back to the drawing board. At least they are trying something.

Also, the SAASL's 'Fair Play' award for all divisions is another good initiative - any money going back to the clubs is good IMO.

Missing Post Count · Post by **Missing Post Count** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:11 pm

Part of me agrees that at least they are trying something. Having clubs supply a referee gives them a chance to see it from the other side of the fence.

However, if I was a player playing in the reserves I'd be cheesed off if I was paying the same fees as a first teamer and not getting the same facilities.
_________________
cos 2A = cosÂ² A - sinÂ² A

diegom wrote:Is BodÃ¸ a post port??? Probably Not, although U do seem to POP up everywhere!

Rexie · Post by **Rexie** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:22 pm

KOP END wrote:i think marooned has been marooned on an island.. the downs are one of the worst offenders against the refs.. on and off the park.. you guys must be in la la land... you set up a bbq behind the goals, why this is allowed i will never know.

the league stuffed up years ago with salis villa... refs dropped off the face of the earth cause there was no protection for them...

Our BBQ is no where near the goals. on the end of the pitch, near the club rooms, but not behind the goals. that is a pathetic thing to bring up on this topic. Where would you want us to set it up. On the side of the pitch, where you have to wlak through every single one of our supporters to get to it. You are a peanut!

nugget66 · Post by **nugget66** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:14 am

Rexie wrote:
KOP END wrote:i think marooned has been marooned on an island.. the downs are one of the worst offenders against the refs.. on and off the park.. you guys must be in la la land... you set up a bbq behind the goals, why this is allowed i will never know.

the league stuffed up years ago with salis villa... refs dropped off the face of the earth cause there was no protection for them...
Our BBQ is no where near the goals. on the end of the pitch, near the club rooms, but not behind the goals. that is a pathetic thing to bring up on this topic. Where would you want us to set it up. On the side of the pitch, where you have to wlak through every single one of our supporters to get to it. You are a peanut!

Rexie he isnt on about the BBQ he's on about your outside bar & the gathering that stand right behind the goals & abuse the opposition goal keepers & the referee's wont say anything because ther intimidated this wouldnt be allowed any where else in the amateur league. I've seen referee's stop the game to move a few kids from behind the goals at other grounds.

nugget66 · Post by **nugget66** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:20 am

Nugget you've missed something. A lot of these referees have stressed money is not the issue.
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Bodo Glimt I can only talk about the 1st Division what is suppose to be the showpiece of the amateur league where most clubs in the SAASL aspire to be. Over the last few years the standard has dropped off dramaticly the average age isnt getting any younger either. We have to address this emmediatley for the standard of our competition & we haven't got time to develope our own referee's otherwise the quality of players that we are attracking to the amateur league will drop due to frustration of substandard refereeing! How do we get quality referee's now? We poach referee's from the federation & other accociations & entice them to referee the 1st Div. which will ease the load & improve our top league. We need to not only pay the money that is needed to attract some quality referee's from the federation & the other accociations to the 1st Div. but also the clubs & league need to work closely to develope a relationship with the referee accociation & referee's in general. We need a stricked code of conduct written for the clubs & emforced by the league. We also need to work on developing our own referee's throughout the league giving them incentive to improve & to reach the highest division to get paid the biggest money I know how hard this problem is to solve & understand that the league is trying to take steps to improve the situation, but I truely believe the answer is money. Why would a federation referee do a amateur league game for considerably less money? they wouldn't! but if they got the same money or more I guarranty they would referee! alot of referee's stressing the money isn't the issue? I dissagree strongly MONEY TALKS

Penalty11 · Post by **Penalty11** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:31 pm

In reply to Nuggett it is obvious that he was not at the AGM.As a matter of fact I look around for your clubs representative and there was no one to be seen.A poor showing for a 1st Division Club.The reason I mention this is that all the points mentioned in this forum were discussed at the AGM.So if you and most of the other people get in touch with their clubs delegates and find out what was discussed,we would have only a quarter of entries on this page.
You mentioned the League should introduce a Code of Conduct for all clubs? Well we were told that a Code of Conduct not only for clubs,but also for Officials and Players,will be introduced next year.And it will become a requisite for Affiliation.
You also mentioned that the League should spend the interests from the investments ($60000)on referees.Well they are spending $50000 on referees.So were is your point.
As far as pinching refrees from other Associations and paying more money then the Federation?Sorry they are 40 short themselves,and any referee will prefer to referee in the Federation simply for the carrer path.They all want to make it to the highest division+ A League+Internationals ect.There is no career path in the Amateur League.
I could rattle on but I attended and read the booklet we were handed were all these points were laid down in black and white.

Hawkesy · Post by **Hawkesy** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:53 pm

I reffed a few games for our reserves last year. Had a few people backchat and moan but in the main not a problem. Then again, I know the rules, don't knowingly cheat and am a strong character.

I've found that MOST people accept you are doing your best and will make mistakes.

Missing Post Count · Post by **Missing Post Count** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:56 pm

In games I've done I've found that MOST spectators who carry on like tools are those who will not take the whistle if they were asked.

swannsong · Post by **swannsong** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:16 am

nugget66 wrote:
Rexie wrote:
KOP END wrote:i think marooned has been marooned on an island.. the downs are one of the worst offenders against the refs.. on and off the park.. you guys must be in la la land... you set up a bbq behind the goals, why this is allowed i will never know.

the league stuffed up years ago with salis villa... refs dropped off the face of the earth cause there was no protection for them...
Our BBQ is no where near the goals. on the end of the pitch, near the club rooms, but not behind the goals. that is a pathetic thing to bring up on this topic. Where would you want us to set it up. On the side of the pitch, where you have to wlak through every single one of our supporters to get to it. You are a peanut!

Rexie he isnt on about the BBQ he's on about your outside bar & the gathering that stand right behind the goals & abuse the opposition goal keepers & the referee's wont say anything because ther intimidated this wouldnt be allowed any where else in the amateur league. I've seen referee's stop the game to move a few kids from behind the goals at other grounds.

As a Downs keeper for quite a few years (and some) I often found that the lads would stir up opposition forwards as much as they would opposition goalkeepers (those forwards would then often take their anger out on the keeper - me !). Most of the boys stand to either side of the goal, not directly behind (unless the crowd is too big to avoid it)
Part of goalkeeping, as well as any other position, is to have the ability to close off from the stirring.
I never once found opposition supporters behind the goal intimidating, despite having heard worse than the Downs boys dish out.
Diving at the feet of a 110 kilo forward is intimidating.
The Downs lads are usually of good humour,and if you play along with them you'll earn their respect. Try to compete with them then kop what you get back.

JWA · Post by **JWA** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:21 pm

Until all the clubs start to realise that we need to treat Referee's appropriately and with respect, no amount of money in the world will change the situation. Referee's need to be treated as 'volunteers' a lot of them are doing it as a second job for a bit of extra cash. Sure they get paid OK money (relative to time), but it is not how they earn their living, it is not their main 'job'. Clubs and their committees need to take a no tolerance stance on their players in regards to abusing ref's and the good old 'whinging soccer player' syndrome, most soccer players I have come across could open the whinging for Australia. The club's need to lead the way and then other club's follow those doing the right things.

The SAASL can come up with numerous ideas and strategies, but in the end Referee's are basically volunteering their time and if they think a little extra cash will help then they are kidding themselves.

The CSL have a reasonable record with treatment of Referee's and although a much smaller competition, they get referee's for every single match they play. Do the Ref's want to do these games for some reason?? Are they less abusive?? Easier?? Less travel??

Either way clubs need to look at themselves and stop whinging that there are none around......

Rexie · Post by **Rexie** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:34 pm

KOP END wrote:i think marooned has been marooned on an island.. the downs are one of the worst offenders against the refs.. on and off the park.. you guys must be in la la land... you set up a bbq behind the goals, why this is allowed i will never know.

the league stuffed up years ago with salis villa... refs dropped off the face of the earth cause there was no protection for them...

When do we set up our BBQ behind the goals. We set up on the end of the pitch, near te clubrooms, smetimes is our marqee, but its not behind the goals. Most clubs would agree that the best place for a BBQ is a place where the games can still be watched while people are buying food and drink. Our supplys that. Other clubs Ive been at you have to walk away from the game to get these things. clubs must use the areas that are given.
Would you rather we set the BBQ up on the side of the pitch, where is is dirty and dusty, and the away team must walk past allof our supporters to get their sausage? You are a peanut!

Jay Walking · Post by **Jay Walking** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:37 pm

Just a few other points from the night.

No increase in registrtaion fees
We aren't affected by the increase in levy from FFA as we aren't associated yet due to a change in the FFA and FFSA boards.
New balls for next year are bright yellow
Accident fund payout are increasing from $150 per week to $175.

Hawkesy · Post by **Hawkesy** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:59 pm

Jay Walking wrote:Just a few other points from the night.

No increase in registrtaion fees
We aren't affected by the increase in levy from FFA as we aren't associated yet due to a change in the FFA and FFSA boards.
New balls for next year are bright yellow
Accident fund payout are increasing from $150 per week to $175.

registration fees: Quite right, the amount of money they have in the coiffers, they don't need to.

New balls: Why the need for those? Been proved that in low light, you see the ball 1/10th of a second faster if it's the yellow ones. Sinde when do we play in low light or under floodlights. That's why they don't use them in England all year.

Accident fund: WOW! that amount doesn't even pay half my mortgage for the week.

Aldo Serena · Post by **Aldo Serena** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:21 pm

For what the clubs pay in accident fund cover, $175 per week is actually okay. A few years back, the SAASL had come to a deal with QBE to underwrite the insurance - it would mean players were covered for training, travel to and from games and the game itself, as well as higher income protection. But it was going to be more expensive, so the idea was rejected by the clubs.

Jay Walking · Post by **Jay Walking** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:58 pm

Considering we all play at our own risk, the $175 per week is better than nothing. If you can't afford not to work, the reality is, you shouldn't be playing.

I would never ever play if I didn't have private health cover. Its almost essential now a days if you are playing some sort of competitive sport.

I agree with the balls, I dont know why we have to have yellow ones. They were designed to be used in the snow, not in sunlight.

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SAASL AGM

Re: marooned.. what are you on

Re: marooned.. what are you on

Re: marooned.. what are you on

Re: marooned.. what are you on