How to improve the SAASL in 2017 and beyond

[Robbo]

I note the other thread on this board "The SAASL is the Shambles" where everyone has basically had their crack at the SAASL and their existing system, seems to be a lot of SAASL members not happy with sanctions given out to both player and club after unruly issues. Going back thru that thread these are most of the issues raised in that thread (feel free to add to the list):

- teams playing Fed players
- referee abuse - verbal abuse
- referee abuse - physical abuse
- players fighting on field
- players fighting off field / after games
- teams brawling / games being called off before end
- verbal abuse player vs spectators
- teams dropping out of the league
- players attacking club officials
- spectators attacking club officials
- death threats
- crowd violence
- registering of players under different names

Basically we have heard all the anger and frustration, just want to open up a discussion on what penalties we as the amateur league community think should apply for the above offences ? The way things are at the moment we are heading for bad publicity in the media and will struggle to attract referees all together, there needs to be change

my opinion FWIW

- teams playing Fed players minimum $1000 club fine / 9 points deducted from league
- referee abuse - verbal abuse 2-5 game suspension
- referee abuse - physical abuse 12 month to life ban
- players fighting on field 1-3 match ban
- players fighting off field / after games 4-10 match ban
- teams brawling / games being called off before end 1st offence minimum $1000 club fine / 2nd offence $3000 club fine & club 12 month ban
- verbal abuse player vs spectators 1 match ban
- verbal abuse player vs spectators 4-10 match ban for player / $1000 club fine for spectators club
- teams dropping out of the league $100 fine per game, capped at $1000 for season
- players attacking club officials 4-10 match ban for player
- spectators attacking club officials 1st offence minimum $1000 club fine / 2nd offence $3000 club fine & club 12 month ban
- death threats 4-10 match ban for player / $1000 club fine for spectators club
- crowd violence 1st offence minimum $1000 club fine / 2nd offence $3000 club fine & club 12 month ban
- registering of players under different names

A couple of other things I wanted to raise personally..
1) Our insurance stinks - I dunno whether members are prepared to pay a little more with registration fees - but the figure paid out is capped quite low
2) Templin Cup - I think Lefty has done a great job getting this going, it has good structure and is well organized, but I would like to see ALL GAMES played under lights, don't care whether its a Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday night. The day games (and subsequent cancellations) are making for the reserves to miss out playing all together and fixture changes of 1st team games at short notice. Night fixturing should eliminate these issues

[Robbo]

and maybe all clubs must pay a $1000 bond upon entering the league

[Knight15]

One of the best posts I have seen on Footballnews - well done

In order for this to happen, you could have

1) More paid and anonymous inspectors - they have plenty of money - both sides will blame each other - just look at Ghan this year - Referees need back up
2) Going back to the card check system - not fool proof but better than we have now
3) Fining Clubs for not having Marshalls available
4) Having proper demarcation areas for spectators - not fences were not Fed's but supporters often get too close to the action

[RowePark]

An open and we'll documented dc dispute / appeal process would be great

Also seems cards are worthless, two guys without cards on the weekend, let's take best case scenario they are suspended not imposters referee refused to disallow them playing. Therefore seems pointless to carry them around if this is the case.

[Dans88]

I'd like to see clubs being fined especially after multiple incidents against referees.

As well as when the club plays unregistered players or suspended players too many times it goes by with nothing from the league.
E.g - Maco's vs East on the weekend.

[God is an Englishman]

An open and we'll documented dc dispute / appeal process would be great

Also seems cards are worthless, two guys without cards on the weekend, let's take best case scenario they are suspended not imposters referee refused to disallow them playing. Therefore seems pointless to carry them around if this is the case.

The referee is not there to determine who can/can't play. Surely best case scenario is that they have simply mislaid their player card. In that case, a drivers licence should be acceptable to match the name on the card.

[legga]

All good points and some of the ones stated are or can be followed up with Police and court action. Surely if you are getting assaulted be it verbally or physically the police should be first port of call..... When should the clubs step back and let the law come into it.

[pernunz]

Laws of the game should be updated from the 2009 version they have on their website.

[chunky-monkey]

I'd like to see clubs being fined especially after multiple incidents against referees.

As well as when the club plays unregistered players or suspended players too many times it goes by with nothing from the league.
E.g - Maco's vs East on the weekend.

Same as the week before against Vista. Should be a zero tolerance on this sort of stuff. Needs stamping out the game.

[Hawk Eye]

The main thing i totally disagree with is
- referee abuse - verbal abuse 2-5 game suspension
- players fighting on field 1-3 match ban[/

How can telling a ref to F... off or telling him he's a disgrace warrant a potential 5 match suspension, yet trying or actually knocking someone out, only get 3 games?

I would have thought it would look pretty bad for the League to be more against fighting than a few harsh words.

One action is Law breaking, could potentially go to court (depending on injury or if needing surgery for injuries) and depending how bad the action, it could get published.
Yet the other action is purely verbal and we're worrying about his feelings???

Doesn't make sense how the lesser action could warrant more of a penalty?

[Knight15]

I'd like to see clubs being fined especially after multiple incidents against referees.

As well as when the club plays unregistered players or suspended players too many times it goes by with nothing from the league.
E.g - Maco's vs East on the weekend.

Same as the week before against Vista. Should be a zero tolerance on this sort of stuff. Needs stamping out the game.

Considering they didn't know the name of their best player against Knights - after match presentation 'our best player today was number 17' - pretty sure they had a few in that game -

[Ippatsu Geinin]

Maybe they thought for you to understand number seventeen than the correct pronunciation of a foreign name.

[Knight15]

Maybe they thought for you to understand number seventeen than the correct pronunciation of a foreign name.

Is that you number 17?

[BeNatural]

How to improve the SAASL?

Invest in full time staff, maybe 1 or 2 people to run the sport.

Get a media co-ordinator appointed to promote the game more on social media, website, etc - it might help change the stigma of amateur soccer by promoting to good things about the clubs, players and league.

[Mr Boombastic]

What about the club referees that cheat their way to a result & blatantly favour their own team. How can the league monitor & fix that?

[THE ORAKLE]

All good points and some of the ones stated are or can be followed up with Police and court action. Surely if you are getting assaulted be it verbally or physically the police should be first port of call..... When should the clubs step back and let the law come into it.

unfortunately we don't have police in this state anymore. we have bushrangers/highwaymen/revenue raisers for the greedy state pollies who have sold everything not tied down. the police and the sneeky cameras are all that's left to carry the can for the greedy buggers. they are even closing police stations down now. everybody suffers but them naturaly. about time we had a bastille day here I reckon.

[LRO]

Look I agree with a lot of what is written BUT isn't this what the SAASL committee should be doing anyway? Why should it be the clubs or individuals that have to suggest it? The only other things I think should happen is coaches accreditation (Not like the FFSA that's just a blatant rip off) but coaches should be registered also.

BUT

Its a 2 way street - The referee standards must improve. MOST referees are impersonal and don't talk before games and or during the games. They need to be trained more (as in fitness training) and if an inspector is at a game then they should be able to point things out to the referee at half time rather than not being able to talk to the referee at the game he is watching. Div 1,2 & 3 should have official match referee's and lines people at every game if not maybe the referees association pay for the volunteer to do it. There should be a match day routine where officials speak to players and coaches before the game, check for jewellery and right coloured skins etc before a ball is kicked.

[spooky1972]

Look I agree with a lot of what is written BUT isn't this what the SAASL committee should be doing anyway? Why should it be the clubs or individuals that have to suggest it? The only other things I think should happen is coaches accreditation (Not like the FFSA that's just a blatant rip off) but coaches should be registered also.

BUT

Its a 2 way street - The referee standards must improve. MOST referees are impersonal and don't talk before games and or during the games. They need to be trained more (as in fitness training) and if an inspector is at a game then they should be able to point things out to the referee at half time rather than not being able to talk to the referee at the game he is watching. Div 1,2 & 3 should have official match referee's and lines people at every game if not maybe the referees association pay for the volunteer to do it. There should be a match day routine where officials speak to players and coaches before the game, check for jewellery and right coloured skins etc before a ball is kicked.

What I don't get is some games have 3 officials turn up to a senior game yet none of them arrive for reserves. Sure some are not accredited to ref games as such but why not let these young refs learn doing the ressie games. Home refs at many clubs ruin games and the young learning ref will prob ruin games the same as a home ref can, but it won't have that stigma of a home a ref.

[RowePark]

Look I agree with a lot of what is written BUT isn't this what the SAASL committee should be doing anyway? Why should it be the clubs or individuals that have to suggest it? The only other things I think should happen is coaches accreditation (Not like the FFSA that's just a blatant rip off) but coaches should be registered also.

BUT

Its a 2 way street - The referee standards must improve. MOST referees are impersonal and don't talk before games and or during the games. They need to be trained more (as in fitness training) and if an inspector is at a game then they should be able to point things out to the referee at half time rather than not being able to talk to the referee at the game he is watching. Div 1,2 & 3 should have official match referee's and lines people at every game if not maybe the referees association pay for the volunteer to do it. There should be a match day routine where officials speak to players and coaches before the game, check for jewellery and right coloured skins etc before a ball is kicked.

What I don't get is some games have 3 officials turn up to a senior game yet none of them arrive for reserves. Sure some are not accredited to ref games as such but why not let these young refs learn doing the ressie games. Home refs at many clubs ruin games and the young learning ref will prob ruin games the same as a home ref can, but it won't have that stigma of a home a ref.

if they are part of the ref assoc surely they are more than qualified to officiate a reserves game, there is no AR course so they are doing the same courses as all the other referees.

[THE ORAKLE]

perhaps if refs were given a bit more respect that might ease the shortfall the league has over numbers. everyone makes mistakes and people should understand. I do know as an explayer and coach this can be difficult at times BUT. if the league has to have any chance of attracting young officials to the game this must be seriously looked at.

[LRO]

perhaps if refs were given a bit more respect that might ease the shortfall the league has over numbers. everyone makes mistakes and people should understand. I do know as an explayer and coach this can be difficult at times BUT. if the league has to have any chance of attracting young officials to the game this must be seriously looked at.

I don't disagree BUT again its a 2 way street if you get paid you must be a certain standard. Some Referee's are not.

[Jogonalex]

perhaps if refs were given a bit more respect that might ease the shortfall the league has over numbers. everyone makes mistakes and people should understand. I do know as an explayer and coach this can be difficult at times BUT. if the league has to have any chance of attracting young officials to the game this must be seriously looked at.

I don't disagree BUT again its a 2 way street if you get paid you must be a certain standard. Some Referee's are not.

#viciouscircle.... the problem is,going on that theory if you get abused week in week out then you may choose not to be a ref, by not being a ref the standard drops and, to your point get paid to do a job that you need more training at. You then get abused more and decide not to ref.... they get paid to ref, not to get abused which to the first point more respect is needed... what comes first the chicken or the egg

[Robbo]

perhaps if refs were given a bit more respect that might ease the shortfall the league has over numbers. everyone makes mistakes and people should understand. I do know as an explayer and coach this can be difficult at times BUT. if the league has to have any chance of attracting young officials to the game this must be seriously looked at.

I don't disagree BUT again its a 2 way street if you get paid you must be a certain standard. Some Referee's are not.

The only way to get more and/or better referees would be more money. I have seen only a few really poor refs in my time. Fact is 50% of players and coaches will generally agree with any dubious decision and from there abuse starts.

Currently a home match will cost the home team $50 odd for the C team, $60 odd for the B team, and $120 plus $50 each for the 2 linesman. Thats about $300 for the home club to pay.. or to put it into perspective about $600 of beer etc to sell just to pay for the refs !! (Nevermind the training costs like floodlights, equipment, coach and trainer costs etc etc) The only other solution for clubs would be to raise registration fees.

I dunno what the solution to the referee abuse could be but for harsher penalties for abuse for players , coaches, players and/or clubs.

[ExtraTime]

Interesting to note, while at the U15 Lacrosse National Championships where my step-son is playing... and given I havent been to many games due to work commitments during the regular season ....

If a club's spectator is found to be abusing an official ( 4 on field at a time ). The opposing team will receive a free immediately

If the club spectator is found to repeat the offence the person will be asked to leave the ground....

[Kyūshū Danji]

If a club's spectator is found to be abusing an official ( 4 on field at a time ). The opposing team will receive a free immediately

Hawkesy will tell you it's not in the LOTG.

[God is an Englishman]

Interesting to note, while at the U15 Lacrosse National Championships where my step-son is playing... and given I havent been to many games due to work commitments during the regular season ....

If a club's spectator is found to be abusing an official ( 4 on field at a time ). The opposing team will receive a free immediately

If the club spectator is found to repeat the offence the person will be asked to leave the ground....

Fantastic, I'm off to stand with the opposition and abuse the referee every time they get the ball.

[THE ORAKLE]

oh well in giae. top response. what I was on about was hopefully getting more officials into the game to eliminate the need for club refs/linespeople etc. some are good and some are fair but not all. they are volunteers only who step in reluctantly in the absence of qualified officials otherwise no game and no club or fans want that.

[swannsong]

perhaps if refs were given a bit more respect that might ease the shortfall the league has over numbers. everyone makes mistakes and people should understand. I do know as an explayer and coach this can be difficult at times BUT. if the league has to have any chance of attracting young officials to the game this must be seriously looked at.

I don't disagree BUT again its a 2 way street if you get paid you must be a certain standard. Some Referee's are not.

The only way to get more and/or better referees would be more money. I have seen only a few really poor refs in my time. Fact is 50% of players and coaches will generally agree with any dubious decision and from there abuse starts.

Currently a home match will cost the home team $50 odd for the C team, $60 odd for the B team, and $120 plus $50 each for the 2 linesman. Thats about $300 for the home club to pay.. or to put it into perspective about $600 of beer etc to sell just to pay for the refs !! (Nevermind the training costs like floodlights, equipment, coach and trainer costs etc etc) The only other solution for clubs would be to raise registration fees.

I dunno what the solution to the referee abuse could be but for harsher penalties for abuse for players , coaches, players and/or clubs.

Hard when you don't get the benefit of bar takings....luckily our other fees related to usage are reasonably low.

[Brian the Postman]

I don't disagree BUT again its a 2 way street if you get paid you must be a certain standard. Some Referee's are not.

The only way to get more and/or better referees would be more money. I have seen only a few really poor refs in my time. Fact is 50% of players and coaches will generally agree with any dubious decision and from there abuse starts.

Currently a home match will cost the home team $50 odd for the C team, $60 odd for the B team, and $120 plus $50 each for the 2 linesman. Thats about $300 for the home club to pay.. or to put it into perspective about $600 of beer etc to sell just to pay for the refs !! (Nevermind the training costs like floodlights, equipment, coach and trainer costs etc etc) The only other solution for clubs would be to raise registration fees.

I dunno what the solution to the referee abuse could be but for harsher penalties for abuse for players , coaches, players and/or clubs.

Hard when you don't get the benefit of bar takings....luckily our other fees related to usage are reasonably low.

Or you can pay your players less, given that it's supposed to be an amateur league........

[FoundIt]

perhaps if refs were given a bit more respect that might ease the shortfall the league has over numbers. everyone makes mistakes and people should understand. I do know as an explayer and coach this can be difficult at times BUT. if the league has to have any chance of attracting young officials to the game this must be seriously looked at.

I don't disagree BUT again its a 2 way street if you get paid you must be a certain standard. Some Referee's are not.

so if they are not to a certain standard that you believe they should be, abuse is justified?

that is the whole reason there are a lack of refs.