U9 Results

[scoreboard]

Does anyone have the U9 Campbelltown & Adel Blue Eagles results from the weekend

[the REAL one]

heard 5-4

[povman_2009]

Didn't think they kept score, is someone planning a clandestine ladder ?

[johnydep]

Didn't think they kept score, is someone planning a clandestine ladder ?

There's always a couple of clubs that keep a ladder.

Heard one junior coach respond to a parent that was discusing a draw on the weekend "it's not all about winning", the coach; "of course it is, winning is everything, winning is development". I hope he was joking but it didn't sound like it.

There's a reason that there is no ladder in the development stages; anyone care to explain the two trains of thoght we have on this?

a) No ladder until U/12
b) internal club ladder for all junior teams

Is Rooball about junior development or getting to the top of the ladder?

[Željko Jurin]

Didn't think they kept score, is someone planning a clandestine ladder ?

There's always a couple of clubs that keep a ladder.

Heard one junior coach respond to a parent that was discusing a draw on the weekend "it's not all about winning", the coach; "of course it is, winning is everything, winning is development". I hope he was joking but it didn't sound like it.

There's a reason that there is no ladder in the development stages; anyone care to explain the two trains of thoght we have on this?

a) No ladder until U/12
b) internal club ladder for all junior teams

Is Rooball about junior development or getting to the top of the ladder?

Well said

I heard at an u/8 game their was a handball in the box, and someone (either a manager or parent) came out onto the ground with pages of notes to try and tell the ref it was a penalty, and not just a free kick. He was quickly red faced when shown, and walked off.
Let the kids have fun and try and teach them the basics and develop them on that

[scoreboard]

Rooball is all about player development, last time I looked they weren't playing for the world cup.......

But irrespective, kids are competitive and they like seeing the scores of games played in their group.

Most club publish their results on their own websites and kids share the results at school. It would be nice if all the junior results were published in place, irrespective of age.

[Jeda]

Rooball is all about player development, last time I looked they weren't playing for the world cup.......

But irrespective, kids are competitive and they like seeing the scores of games played in their group.

Most club publish their results on their own websites and kids share the results at school. It would be nice if all the junior results were published in place, irrespective of age.

Bullsiit, it's the adults that like to see a ladder & they pass on their views to the kids without even realising

Rooball kids don't see or understand the bigger picture of which team won or placings on a ladder, they see fun, games, friends & scoring.
Show a kid a team on top & there'll be 10 teams & 10 kids last, not good development in this age group (especially with the quality refereeing ) as mentioned there is no ladder in rroball for a reason

Unfortunately some adults need to see their 8 year old win at all cost

Let the kids have fun and try and teach them the basics and develop them on that

Well said

[beskid]

Have checked how the best in the world do it at a very young age eg. Germans, French.
They all have junior websites with team photos, all fixtures, results and tables. I don't think there is anything wrong with competetivenes. Competative edge is also important.

Example form VfL Bochum website.

U9-Junioren 2006/2007Tabelle
Platz Verein Spiele S U N Tore Differenz Punkte
1 Schalke 04* 8 7 1 0 46 : 19 27 22
2 Borussia Dortmund* 8 5 3 0 31 : 14 17 18
3 Bayer 04 Leverkusen* 7 4 1 2 33 : 14 19 13
4 Bochum* 7 4 0 3 27 : 16 11 12
5 1. FC Köln* 8 3 1 4 15 : 21 -6 10
6 Duisburg* 6 2 0 4 20 : 24 -4 6
7 Gladbach* 7 0 2 5 17 : 43 -26 2
8 Wattenscheid* 7 0 0 7 10 : 48 -38 0

Ergebnistabelle
# 1. FC Köln Bayer 04 Leverkusen Bochum Borussia Dortmund Duisburg Gladbach Schalke 04 Wattenscheid
1. FC Köln 0 : 6 1 : 2 4 : 4 2 : 0
Bayer 04 Leverkusen 1 : 1 9 : 3
Bochum 0 : 2 2 : 1 6 : 2 10 : 0
Borussia Dortmund 5 : 2 5 : 0 2 : 2 3 : 3 8 : 2
Duisburg 0 : 3 2 : 5
Gladbach 2 : 8 1 : 8 1 : 5 4 : 8
Schalke 04 4 : 1 4 : 3 5 : 1 8 : 3 8 : 3 6 : 1
Wattenscheid 3 : 5 1 : 8

Spielbegegnungen
29 Spiele

Borussia Dortmund 1. FC Köln 5 : 2
Gladbach Schalke 04 4 : 8
Borussia Dortmund Wattenscheid 8 : 2
Borussia Dortmund Gladbach 2 : 2
Bochum Duisburg 6 : 2
Gladbach Bayer 04 Leverkusen 2 : 8
Schalke 04 Gladbach 8 : 3
Schalke 04 1. FC Köln 4 : 1
Bayer 04 Leverkusen Borussia Dortmund 1 : 1
1. FC Köln Gladbach 4 : 4
1. FC Köln Borussia Dortmund 1 : 2
Bayer 04 Leverkusen Wattenscheid 9 : 3
Duisburg Bayer 04 Leverkusen 2 : 5
Gladbach Duisburg 1 : 5
Bochum 1. FC Köln 0 : 2
Borussia Dortmund Schalke 04 3 : 3
Wattenscheid Borussia Dortmund 3 : 5
Bochum Bayer 04 Leverkusen 2 : 1
Borussia Dortmund Bochum 5 : 0
Schalke 04 Duisburg 8 : 3
1. FC Köln Bayer 04 Leverkusen 0 : 6
Schalke 04 Wattenscheid 6 : 1
1. FC Köln Wattenscheid 2 : 0
Gladbach Bochum 1 : 8
Duisburg 1. FC Köln 0 : 3
Schalke 04 Bayer 04 Leverkusen 4 : 3
Bochum Wattenscheid 10 : 0
Wattenscheid Duisburg 1 : 8
Schalke 04 Bochum 5 : 1

U9 Junioren und Tabellen der NRW-Bundesliga
1. Shalke 04
2. Borusia Dortmund
3. Bayer 04 Leverkusen
4. Bochum
5. 1.Fc Koln
6. Duisburg
7. Gladbach
8. Wattenscheid

They select kids form about the age of 6, take the most talented form each city, train 3 times a week plus games on weekends.
Play competative games against top kids form other cities in a particular part of Germany.

It looks all very professional from the U8 up.

But they have the finances to be able to do it.

There are some fantastic reading about their selection process and development of kids on various club websites but I cant speak german.

My 8 year old son (plays U10) always wants to know results from other games and I do not know why is it "illegal" to let him know.

[Željko Jurin]

They select kids form about the age of 6, take the most talented form each city, train 3 times a week plus games on weekends.

Talented 6 yo's, how do you make one ????

We dont even have a youth A-league, let alone a system that spots talented 6 yo's

This is Australia, can't and dont compare.
We can start spotting at about 10, and in my opinion, that;s when official scores and tables should start. If the FFSA can start u9/10 acadamies, meaning they are taking these kids seriously, then start giving them a proper competition

[johnydep]

They select kids form about the age of 6, take the most talented form each city, train 3 times a week plus games on weekends.

Talented 6 yo's, how do you make one ????

......

Feed lots of pasta & fish then a good dose of running in the park & a new soccer ball every birthday & Christmas.

[johnydep]

One of the challenges facing this country, and particularly the FFA in their quest to make improvements in the long term to Australian football, is to develop a culture of football, which is almost the complete opposite to where we are at this point in time.

A culture, which values the ball over the athlete, skill over strength, and football intelligence over graft and effort.

We will need to develop intuitive players who are adaptable during a game by instinct not input, and the natural precursor to this of course is first to develop intelligent coaches.

As Johan Cruyff once said, how can the student be better than the teacher?

So, to produce outstanding players we need excellent coaches who have an understanding at the highest technical level.

This is indeed a long-term project requiring tremendous improvement in our licences and methodology, but in the meantime one area that can be addressed is to continue to advance the understanding of the football community, particularly at the grass roots level, of what represents ‘good football’, and of the importance of a philosophy of play based on possessing the ball.

Yet when we talk about a culture of the game and particularly a philosophy of play, all those reading this with a good understanding of the game will know that all around us are signs that at present our national philosophy is deficient.

For instance, visit any junior club around the country and you will see more running than playing, and most players being encouraged to play the ball forward as soon as possible, regardless of the quality of the pass or any evaluation of the option chosen.

In other words, there is a predominance of lumping the ball forward for big, quick and usually strong kids to chase, to the detriment of players who prefer to hold the ball and build up play in a slower and more intelligent manner.

This is a by product of a poor football philosophy inherited from England, which values fast play over good, and which manifests itself in poor youth coaching.

Like the coach I was told about last week who has an under ten team running two kilometres in training, an athletic pursuit better suited to endurance runners than footballers, but who is employed because he has produced teams who have won the ‘champion of champions’ at junior levels, and is therefore seen as a ‘good’ coach.

On this evidence he certainly is not, because whilst his teams can run, they can’t play.

Like many junior coaches around the place, this guy recruits fast big players and defenders who are strong and just bash the ball forward for the attackers to chase. Boring, backward, and in my view, very possibly a crime against football itself.

Because this is a short sighted strategy, which is anti-player development since, whilst the team may win games for now, this style of play produces technically deficient players who will be learning nothing about how to play the game which is precisely, and only, what junior football is for!

And not only is it boring for the players, enforces results over fun and enjoyment and therefore arguably produces a larger drop out rate of youngsters in the early teens, it is in fact also ineffective once the players mature and their physical strengths converge as adults.

Every junior club in the country should be teaching their coaches to appreciate that until the very late teens, the total focus must be on producing players who understand and can play the game, that is to say they can control and manipulate the ball with great skill, maintain possession both individually and collectively, intelligently construct an attack and respond well in defence, and that teaching these principles of play fundamentally must take total precedence over results.

And we will only be starting to improve when every youth coach is judged on the quality of players he produces, not on the amount of trophies he wins.

We must all recognise that effort and running alone don’t win football matches, technique, skill, and intelligent players do. That is why Brazil and Italy have nine World Cups between them, Germany three and Argentina two. Because their football cultures, and their philosophy of play, are based on these characteristics.

If you want absolute confirmation of the need for change, this year take a look at the Under 14 or 15 National championships where tour best juniors come together, and you will see that I am right.

These championships are shockingly low on teams that are both technically (that is the individuals are capable), and tactically (the team works together, demonstrates good cohesion, and can solve problems collectively), competent at keeping the football for long periods.

Or, better still, take a look at our national teams.

Both the Joeys and Young Socceroos who failed at even the earliest Asian pre-qualifying stage could not keep the ball, clearly neither could the 17 girls. In fact the only team that played with any reasonable tactical skill was the Under 20 Young Matildas, as yet our only youth age team to qualify though Asia, who were intensely trained to do so and proved, as did the Socceroos, that when our teams are well coached they are capable of adaptation.

This inability to play to a high level is a factor of both culture and philosophy.

And it remains a fundamental problem even at the highest senior levels of our game.

In the last few weeks you might have noticed Sydney FC struggle for long periods to keep the ball against pressure, likewise Adelaide United against the Vietnamese, and the best sign of what our poor philosophy of football and no insistence on playing from defence at junior levels produces, is to see Australia struggle to play under defensive pressure against China in the second half of the recent international.

So, enough of where we are, let’s explore some key elements of a good philosophy of football.

Here is a start for any youth coaches and parents interested to know where they now stand, and in what direction they should be heading:

1. To play the ball on the ground at all times, which requires both supporting play and good technique;

2. To play short passes, which requires players to support each other in attack and defence, and is harder to defend and anticipate;

3. To play only longer balls in response to a movement by a team-mate not in the hope of one - to move and ask for the ball after which the pass is delivered;

4. To play longer passes, and particularly those in the air, predominantly only when there is no closer option and always into the feet of an attacker, never just into space for them to chase;

5. To discourage young keepers in kicking the ball long unless there is no other option (and even here one can almost always be manufactured) and at all times have the keeper roll the ball to a team-mate so the team can begin to play immediately from the back;

6. If, at any time, a youngster has no option to find a team-mate, they should be encouraged always to keep the ball. This may mean shielding it, keeping it moving to wait for a pass, or to dribble forward to attack an opponent. At no time should they be told to kick it away regardless of the position they play or where they are on the field, and if the child loses the ball they should be encouraged to try again;

7. To encourage players to express themselves through their football and recognise that everyone is not the same, and shouldn’t play so. Some play fast, others slow, some play simple, others read situations and find more complex solutions, and some have enough skill to individually dominate a game, while others can only dream of doing so, but all should be allowed to find their own game not forced to conform to a uniform way of playing;

8. And, to SLOW DOWN, or more specifically, vary the speed of play during a game, which requires a team to hold the ball. After working to recover possession, every young team should break forward only if they have an advantage in attack, otherwise they should slow the play down and possess the ball, back and across the field, resting and starting to position themselves in attack to take advantage of overloads in numbers, or weaknesses in defence. Youth coaches need to understand that the object of football is to keep the ball and to score goals through breaking down a defence with passing and skill, not by booting the ball forward hoping for a defensive mistake.

And of course a change in philosophy has ramifications for youth training.

It means that at youth levels, the only suitable training sessions should be completely with the ball, with every player touching the ball between 500 and 1000 times, refining technique and 1 v 1 skills, learning the game principally by playing in small games of 2 v 2, 3 v 3, 4 v 4, 5 v 5 and overload practices such as 4 v 2, 4 v 3, 5 v 2.

In this way good coaches can coach the key moments when in possession, the opponent in possession or the changeover, build awareness in the players to aid understanding and decision making, and allow the players to develop a fee for the game that comes only from thousands of hours playing it.

But at the same time the uneducated coach - such as the voluntary parent supervisor - can, by playing these games, give the players a structure, which aids their learning process without having to coach specific points of play.

All fairly straightforward, but a long, long way from where the bulk of our young teams are at right now.

So, how do you know where your club or coach stands from a philosophical point of view? One of the best ways is by their instructions to the players.

If the coach encourages players to slow down and relax on the ball, to take their time, to possess the ball, to support each other, to play together, to take opponents on, to take up positions at angles to each other, to circulate the ball quickly around the team, to play one and two touch football, to create triangles and diamonds in their play, to pass backwards when no forward option is rational, to use the goalkeeper to maintain possession, to read game situations and play away from pressure not into it, and to recognise and create numerical overloads, they are on the right track.

If you hear a coach telling players to ‘get rid of it’, ‘clear their lines’, ‘get it in the box’, ‘get stuck in’, ‘don’t play at the back’, ‘don’t take risks’, telling a keeper to kick the ball long or players to ‘hit the channels’, run a million miles.

Your child is in danger of becoming a boring and uninventive player, and is most unlikely either truly to discover the joy of playing the ball, or to even excel in the game against other players who have spent a decade or more possessing the ball.

And as to the physical aspect and all those coaches who want to make their young players run instead of learning to manipulate the ball and the game itself, yes, at the elite level players are very strong and often gifted physically like Thierry Henry and Kaka, but just like these two the best are footballers before athletes, and value technique over physique, because they recognise that runners don’t make it to the top any more in football.

And don’t forget that Australia has always been physically strong, but we only started to improve when Guus Hiddink finally told the players to keep the ball, to play out from the back (or in his words, ‘to start the attack from defence’), to use space more intelligently through better positional awareness, to stop hitting the ball forward in hope or desperation, to understand how to utilise the team’s spare man to keep possession, to support the ball possessor in attack, and to be patient and play in all directions in the build up phase until in a position to strike at the opponent.

These are the principles, which underline the correct philosophy of football, and the very ones every junior club and coach should be required to teach.

Sometimes, of course, pictures tell a story most effectively and I was recently sent an excellent video presentation by former Marconi player and now youth coach Vince Colagiuri, which is one of the best discussions into a youth development philosophy of football that I have seen.

It compares the philosophy of play at youth level in the USA against that of Brazil, and the findings presented about the USA correlate exactly to what is happening here in Australia.

The video, titled Player Development Philosophy can be seen by clicking here and should be required viewing for every youth coach in the country.

Once you have watched it, you would do the game a great service by distributing it to your entire football email database, and thereby being proactive in encouraging debate about Australia’s philosophy of football.

Because through debate comes understanding, and until we arrive at a better one, our kids will not be given the best chance to excel.

Let me know your thoughts at craig.foster@sbs.com.au

Best wishes and, as always, enjoy your football.

[Black Hawk]

Well said johnydep.

[MegaBonus]

my only problem with fosters article is that he doesnt acknowledge his resources!!! he makes it sound revolutionary and that its his ideas!!

what he said is the accepted philosophy for junior coaching throughout the world.

if anyone would like further readings, im happy to point them in the right direction.

[Wild Eagle]

I would like further readings, would you please point me in the right direction?

Thank you MB

[MegaBonus]

just posted in the coaching forum

[johnydep]

my only problem with fosters article is that he doesnt acknowledge his resources!!! he makes it sound revolutionary and that its his ideas!!

what he said is the accepted philosophy for junior coaching throughout the world.

if anyone would like further readings, im happy to point them in the right direction.

I didn't take it that way, thought that he was just trying to get some change happening in Australian football.

[Football_lad]

mmm touchy subject but one i think about quite often. i coach an under 9 E&D side and have had the same kids since under 6. My boys have developed a lot over the past 3 years and are one of the best football playing teams in the competition along with a few others. and that is not being biased.

Some children posess the ability to learn new concepts and develop skills and some children are lucky enough to be born with a natural love and skill for the game. There are some children in my team that can recall scores against teams that we play from last season and what not and alos come to trainings and gamedays ready to discuss worldwide games from the EPL, Italian and spanish leagues!!!! Some of these kids have parents that barely have an interest in soccer so obviously this comes fromt he child wanting results to have an influence.

To some children all that matters is winning, and to some playing soccer is just enough. There is a balance that i feel is correct. losing is not bad, but to be able to learn from your losses is just as good as any win.

If my team loses to a team say 3-1.... i will tell my team that a win for the next game would be to concede less goals, or score more... even to lose 2-1 or 1-0 would be considered a win.

i think that teaching your team from the youngest possible age that improving on past reasults is a WIN is vital in these young ages. league tables and published results would not be such a bad thing if coaches are able to tell the kids that losing is not bad and set goals that are realistic instead of "we must finish top."

Parents also need to understand that winning all the time is not good! winning 3 nil but playing crap and players out of position making wayward passes is no better than winning 1 nil and having majority of possession due to the teams ability to play "football" at this young age at a high standard.

Overall i think that results and tables could be published also for a coaches benefit for helping to develop the players want to play better and better past results.

[Jeda]

Rooball is all about player development, last time I looked they weren't playing for the world cup.......

But irrespective, kids are competitive and they like seeing the scores of games played in their group.

Most club publish their results on their own websites and kids share the results at school. It would be nice if all the junior results were published in place, irrespective of age.

My friends son has played for a western team since U8 last year & now U9 this year, she tells me that he is always played in defence, even though he plays striker in school soccer.

Is this development or winning?

[povman_2009]

An interesting analogy would be to look at the world of business, "if you do not measure it , you cannot improve it"

That said however, how do we measure success in terms of football development. For some kids it is making a good pass or tackle for others it is all about scoring , in my limited experience as a coach of juniors from U13-15 it is interesting to watch how the dynamic of success is dealt with by the individuals.

My aim is similar to the other coaches experience that we look to improve individually and as a team unit.

Setting achievable goals for the children and watching them enjoy their attainment is satisfaction enough for me.

A closing thought...

If winning is everything then ultimately the winners will have no-one to play against.

[Barney Rubble]

Quote

"A closing thought...

If winning is everything then ultimately the winners will have no-one to play against."

Try this one
"Winning is only a by-product of successful soccer"

How many coaches hear parents whooping it up when their sons (or daughters) win a game when the two teams are miles apart in skills and experience?

A good coach always tells his/her team how they performed against each team, it is the only way they will understand.

Last year i heard a coach tell his team they were pretty ordinary after a
6-1 win against a ten man team, the other team fought to the end and did their best which was all their coach could ask for.

He was right as once the team knew they were against 10-men they lost discipline and tried to out-muscle the opposition, only scored 2 in the second half and looked scrapy.

Thought that was a fair call

[Fred Goldstone]

Kids should initially learn the skills required for the position they naturally want to play and then be tried out in different positions to learn the skills required for each.

At about 11 or 12 they should be starting to develop a sense of where their best options are and then be coached in the specifics of that position, techniques, tactics, etc.

They should also be given intensive skills coaching to best develop their all-round ability.

By age 14-15 they should have developed the specific skills and techniques to be taught the specifics of positional play within particular formations. eg. 442, 343, 351, etc. - that is what?, why?, and when? of formations.

Very few players and coaches these days seem to understand the ins-and-outs of tactics and formations.