"C+" team Cup Competition?

[On The Pine]

This has probably been floated before, but seeing as there is an O/35's cup comp is there any reason why C teams (and beyond) can't have their own cup competition?

The way I see it, any third string team and lower could apply to be involved. This would mean the standard "C" and "D' teams etc could apply, as well as third string teams that play on an alternative day (Such as the case with teams like Fulham, Angle Vale, and Munno Para whose main teams play on Sunday but who also enter teams in lower divisions on a Saturday).

A major criticism I have seen in the past is "players liking the week off" and if that is the case those teams simply opt out or do not apply. The reality is that most only have one or two games added to their roster, and unfortunately these leagues do seem to be plagued by forfeits so most teams would probably be happy to fill a cup bye round with a fixture.

It would be interesting to see if clubs would support this and, more importantly, if those that currently play C's (or will in the near future) would be interested in being involved.

[Robbo]

naaaaaah

dont think there should be a 35's one either personally

[haywood djablowme]

Maybe copy the 35s & the top 2 C teams play off at Hindmarsh at season end

[Old Redback]

dont think there should be a 35's one either personally

Not in it's current format anyway

[On The Pine]

naaaaaah

dont think there should be a 35's one either personally

I know this has been a common opinion in the past, but why?

Is there a reason/s that you think it wouldn't work or shouldn't be considered?

[ontheblackburner]

I'd love us to have a C-Team cup competition.

There are def enough C Teams and others (like Uni etc who have 3 or 4 teams) to make it work.

Don't think the SAASL can be F'd making it work thoguh

[swannsong]

Cup Finals Day at Hindmarsh, for those that care to attend regardless of their Club's participation of not, is already a long enough day with 4 finals ( 9:00am - 5:30pm ). You need to give players incentive to want to play at the highest levels for their Clubs....The Over 35s Cup looks fun but it is a bit like a "slow down" event that gives yesterday's heroes a chance to get out on Hindmarsh once again.
Think the Over 35s put in a fair bit of legwork themselves to get the Cup up and going down at Grange a few years back.

[Robbo]

C Teams are made up of unfit players or players of less ability and/or commitment - why on earth would you want to glorify that with a cup final ?? Its almost a social kickabout where some take it more seriously than others - same with the Over 35's

If a C Team player is worth any salt, they would be part of their Reserves squad for the Cup. By the end of the season when it is finals time, most C Teams are struggling to field the bare 11 anyway due to injuries etc

Why reward players that cant be assed training etc. I just dont get it.

If you think you are good enough player to challenge for a cup, work your way into your reserves team

[BPBC]

Spot on Robbo

[On The Pine]

C Teams are made up of unfit players or players of less ability and/or commitment - why on earth would you want to glorify that with a cup final ?? Its almost a social kickabout where some take it more seriously than others - same with the Over 35's

If a C Team player is worth any salt, they would be part of their Reserves squad for the Cup. By the end of the season when it is finals time, most C Teams are struggling to field the bare 11 anyway due to injuries etc

Why reward players that cant be assed training etc. I just dont get it.

If you think you are good enough player to challenge for a cup, work your way into your reserves team

Well why don't we stop inflicting the blight of all of these unfit, useless, and uncommitted players on our league and completely cancel any involvement they have? Surely these blokes don't even deserve to walk out on a pitch!

[swannsong]

C Teams are made up of unfit players or players of less ability and/or commitment - why on earth would you want to glorify that with a cup final ?? Its almost a social kickabout where some take it more seriously than others - same with the Over 35's

If a C Team player is worth any salt, they would be part of their Reserves squad for the Cup. By the end of the season when it is finals time, most C Teams are struggling to field the bare 11 anyway due to injuries etc

Why reward players that cant be assed training etc. I just dont get it.

If you think you are good enough player to challenge for a cup, work your way into your reserves team

Well why don't we stop inflicting the blight of all of these unfit, useless, and uncommitted players on our league and completely cancel any involvement they have? Surely these blokes don't even deserve to walk out on a pitch!

Because most play for the social reward of belonging to a club and still wanting to share a shower with their mates....not having a knockout Cup for them does not imply they are of any less worth to the club...many a club has been kept solvent because of the support ( beverage consumption) of their C-Teams

[Paleon Patros Germanos]

Easy. Make it optional to enter.

[Ernie Cooksey]

I am FOR a c team cup. Like the paint pot cup it gives lower teams a longer cup run and more of a chance etc...
The O35's format is bollox, it should be knockout cup rounds not the top 2. That's not a fucking cup.

[On The Pine]

C Teams are made up of unfit players or players of less ability and/or commitment - why on earth would you want to glorify that with a cup final ?? Its almost a social kickabout where some take it more seriously than others - same with the Over 35's

If a C Team player is worth any salt, they would be part of their Reserves squad for the Cup. By the end of the season when it is finals time, most C Teams are struggling to field the bare 11 anyway due to injuries etc

Why reward players that cant be assed training etc. I just dont get it.

If you think you are good enough player to challenge for a cup, work your way into your reserves team

Well why don't we stop inflicting the blight of all of these unfit, useless, and uncommitted players on our league and completely cancel any involvement they have? Surely these blokes don't even deserve to walk out on a pitch!

Because most play for the social reward of belonging to a club and still wanting to share a shower with their mates....not having a knockout Cup for them does not imply they are of any less worth to the club...many a club has been kept solvent because of the support ( beverage consumption) of their C-Teams

That was laced with a lot of sarcasm Swanny. I have been a part of the Amateur league for almost 15 years and I know the importance of the C grade, but it still astounds me that there is such disdain for the players and the comp as a whole (and in a catch 22 this impacts the quality of the teams/leagues).

There are a multitude of reasons that players play C grade, not all of them being that they are not good enough/committed enough to make the B's. Things like: the timing of the games, inability to train, inability to play every week (shift work, such as the mines), or wanting/needing to play on the alternate day from what the traditional A/B team. It is becoming more common for some teams that would be considered "C" teams to no longer be an extension of the A's and B's, but be stand alone squads. At Munno Para, for example, there is a traditional "C" team on a Sunday and a team that plays on a Saturday in Div 5 (the only standalone div) that does not field players in the A's or B's or vice versa.

I think for Robbo to stereotype the 40 or so teams that could be eligible and claim they are unworthy of a cup competition is elitist and disrespectful to the blokes that help to keep your clubs running. I understand that there would be a number of potentially eligible teams that would not be interested and that, I think, should be their call to make.

By the way, I am not saying that the final would need to be played at Hindmarsh, I understand this could be logistically impossible.
But who doesn't enjoy playing cup football? I don't hear the Gardens failing to celebrate their cup wins because the the FFSA cup comp is of a better standard.

[swannsong]

That was laced with a lot of sarcasm Swanny. I have been a part of the Amateur league for almost 15 years and I know the importance of the C grade, but it still astounds me that there is such disdain for the players and the comp as a whole (and in a catch 22 this impacts the quality of the teams/leagues).

There are a multitude of reasons that players play C grade, not all of them being that they are not good enough/committed enough to make the B's. Things like: the timing of the games, inability to train, inability to play every week (shift work, such as the mines), or wanting/needing to play on the alternate day from what the traditional A/B team. It is becoming more common for some teams that would be considered "C" teams to no longer be an extension of the A's and B's, but be stand alone squads. At Munno Para, for example, there is a traditional "C" team on a Sunday and a team that plays on a Saturday in Div 5 (the only standalone div) that does not field players in the A's or B's or vice versa.

I think to stereotype the 40 or so teams that could be eligible and claim they are unworthy of a cup competition is elitist and disrespectful to the blokes that help to keep your clubs running. I understand that there would be a number of potentially eligible teams that would not be interested and that, I think, should be their call to make.

By the way, I am not saying that the final would need to be played at Hindmarsh, I understand this could be logistically impossible.
But who doesn't enjoy playing cup football? I don't hear the Gardens failing to celebrate their cup wins because the the FFSA cup comp is of a better standard.

No sarcasm on my part....the players can still get Club and league awards, league title, B&F, goalscorers etc.
Players who make the Reserves and hardly get a mention in Yearbooks or who have to move between the As and Bs often miss out on things too.
I guess we can adopt a Junior philosophy of handing out trophies to anyone. (that bit was sarcastic).
But why shouldn't the A's followed by the Bs be elitist...if you don't want to be elitist pressure the League to enter them into the Preliminary Round of the Cup.
The Cup by definition is an elitist competition....what about all the lower Division teams that are knocked out of the Cup very early on .....do we bring back a Consolation Cup for them ?

[On The Pine]

That was laced with a lot of sarcasm Swanny. I have been a part of the Amateur league for almost 15 years and I know the importance of the C grade, but it still astounds me that there is such disdain for the players and the comp as a whole (and in a catch 22 this impacts the quality of the teams/leagues).

There are a multitude of reasons that players play C grade, not all of them being that they are not good enough/committed enough to make the B's. Things like: the timing of the games, inability to train, inability to play every week (shift work, such as the mines), or wanting/needing to play on the alternate day from what the traditional A/B team. It is becoming more common for some teams that would be considered "C" teams to no longer be an extension of the A's and B's, but be stand alone squads. At Munno Para, for example, there is a traditional "C" team on a Sunday and a team that plays on a Saturday in Div 5 (the only standalone div) that does not field players in the A's or B's or vice versa.

I think to stereotype the 40 or so teams that could be eligible and claim they are unworthy of a cup competition is elitist and disrespectful to the blokes that help to keep your clubs running. I understand that there would be a number of potentially eligible teams that would not be interested and that, I think, should be their call to make.

By the way, I am not saying that the final would need to be played at Hindmarsh, I understand this could be logistically impossible.
But who doesn't enjoy playing cup football? I don't hear the Gardens failing to celebrate their cup wins because the the FFSA cup comp is of a better standard.

No sarcasm on my part....the players can still get Club and league awards, league title, B&F, goalscorers etc.
Players who make the Reserves and hardly get a mention in Yearbooks or who have to move between the As and Bs often miss out on things too.
I guess we can adopt a Junior philosophy of handing out trophies to anyone. (that bit was sarcastic).
But why shouldn't the A's followed by the Bs be elitist...if you don't want to be elitist pressure the League to enter them into the Preliminary Round of the Cup.
The Cup by definition is an elitist competition....what about all the lower Division teams that are knocked out of the Cup very early on .....do we bring back a Consolation Cup for them ?

Elitist in a sense that those who play in a separate tier are not worthy or their own cup competition. I understand that the A's and B's might sit around and think "we could beat those guys in a game" but that is not the point. The teams that are third, fourth, fifth in line should, in my opinion, be entitled to a separate competition. To suggest that they could be entered into the preliminary cup round is hypocritical if you believe that the B teams should have their own cup competition isn't it? With that logic the B team should also have to play in the A team comp.

In answer to the last part, no we don't have a consolation cup or consider replacing teams that have been knocked out. If they are the clubs best team they would be in the "A" cup, second best team in the "B" cup, and the third best teams would be playing out for the title of best "C teams" in the land.

[swannsong]

That was laced with a lot of sarcasm Swanny. I have been a part of the Amateur league for almost 15 years and I know the importance of the C grade, but it still astounds me that there is such disdain for the players and the comp as a whole (and in a catch 22 this impacts the quality of the teams/leagues).

There are a multitude of reasons that players play C grade, not all of them being that they are not good enough/committed enough to make the B's. Things like: the timing of the games, inability to train, inability to play every week (shift work, such as the mines), or wanting/needing to play on the alternate day from what the traditional A/B team. It is becoming more common for some teams that would be considered "C" teams to no longer be an extension of the A's and B's, but be stand alone squads. At Munno Para, for example, there is a traditional "C" team on a Sunday and a team that plays on a Saturday in Div 5 (the only standalone div) that does not field players in the A's or B's or vice versa.

I think to stereotype the 40 or so teams that could be eligible and claim they are unworthy of a cup competition is elitist and disrespectful to the blokes that help to keep your clubs running. I understand that there would be a number of potentially eligible teams that would not be interested and that, I think, should be their call to make.

By the way, I am not saying that the final would need to be played at Hindmarsh, I understand this could be logistically impossible.
But who doesn't enjoy playing cup football? I don't hear the Gardens failing to celebrate their cup wins because the the FFSA cup comp is of a better standard.

No sarcasm on my part....the players can still get Club and league awards, league title, B&F, goalscorers etc.
Players who make the Reserves and hardly get a mention in Yearbooks or who have to move between the As and Bs often miss out on things too.
I guess we can adopt a Junior philosophy of handing out trophies to anyone. (that bit was sarcastic).
But why shouldn't the A's followed by the Bs be elitist...if you don't want to be elitist pressure the League to enter them into the Preliminary Round of the Cup.
The Cup by definition is an elitist competition....what about all the lower Division teams that are knocked out of the Cup very early on .....do we bring back a Consolation Cup for them ?

Elitist in a sense that those who play in a separate tier are not worthy or their own cup competition. I understand that the A's and B's might sit around and think "we could beat those guys in a game" but that is not the point. The teams that are third, fourth, fifth in line should, in my opinion, be entitled to a separate competition. To suggest that they could be entered into the preliminary cup round is hypocritical if you believe that the B teams should have their own cup competition isn't it? With that logic the B team should also have to play in the A team comp.

In answer to the last part, no we don't have a consolation cup or consider replacing teams that have been knocked out. If they are the clubs best team they would be in the "A" cup, second best team in the "B" cup, and the third best teams would be playing out for the title of best "C teams" in the land.

No hypocrisy there at all....traditionally most clubs only had 2 teams or one...C-Teams emerged a while later....in the late 70's the Downs C -Team lasted longer in the Cup than the As.
The Reserves Cup always throws up issues of stacking or Cup-tieing players...would a C-Team Cup create further issues in that regard ??
I also believe that a C-Team Cup might favour the bigger Clubs once again.....so in a sense, it too would be elitist !
If you want it so much orgnise it yourselves as my Brother and others did with the Over 35's Cup.

[On The Pine]

No hypocrisy there at all....traditionally most clubs only had 2 teams or one...C-Teams emerged a while later....in the late 70's the Downs C -Team lasted longer in the Cup than the As.
The Reserves Cup always throws up issues of stacking or Cup-tieing players...would a C-Team Cup create further issues in that regard ??
I also believe that a C-Team Cup might favour the bigger Clubs once again.....so in a sense, it too would be elitist !
If you want it so much orgnise it yourselves as my Brother and others did with the Over 35's Cup.

That is what this thread is about, to float the idea and to see if there would be genuine interest amongst those who currently (or will in the near future) play for the third, fourth, etc string teams at a club. Given the right amount of support I would be happy to get in contact with the league to see what we need to do to make it happen.

A cup competition always favours the bigger teams, that goes without saying. However a C team from a lower division club has just as much chance (if not more) of knocking off a Division 1's C team, as their A or B teams would in their respective competitions.

I understand that the landscape has changed and that there never used to be C teams, but there is now. Doesn't it make it hypocritical to say that they don't deserve their own comp and should slug it out in the B's or A's comp if you are going to allow the B's to have their own comp and not suggest they do the same thing?

There will always be an issue of teams stacking teams etc, but you do all the things in your power to stop that just like they do now: If your C team wants to enter, your A's and B's have to as well. Players are cup tied to the highest tier they play at (and clubs do card checks), etc etc

[jedi23]

No hypocrisy there at all....traditionally most clubs only had 2 teams or one...C-Teams emerged a while later....in the late 70's the Downs C -Team lasted longer in the Cup than the As.
The Reserves Cup always throws up issues of stacking or Cup-tieing players...would a C-Team Cup create further issues in that regard ??
I also believe that a C-Team Cup might favour the bigger Clubs once again.....so in a sense, it too would be elitist !
If you want it so much orgnise it yourselves as my Brother and others did with the Over 35's Cup.

That is what this thread is about, to float the idea and to see if there would be genuine interest amongst those who currently (or will in the near future) play for the third, fourth, etc string teams at a club. Given the right amount of support I would be happy to get in contact with the league to see what we need to do to make it happen.

A cup competition always favours the bigger teams, that goes without saying. However a C team from a lower division club has just as much chance (if not more) of knocking off a Division 1's C team, as their A or B teams would in their respective competitions.

I understand that the landscape has changed and that there never used to be C teams, but there is now. Doesn't it make it hypocritical to say that they don't deserve their own comp and should slug it out in the B's or A's comp if you are going to allow the B's to have their own comp and not suggest they do the same thing?

There will always be an issue of teams stacking teams etc, but you do all the things in your power to stop that just like they do now: If your C team wants to enter, your A's and B's have to as well. Players are cup tied to the highest tier they play at (and clubs do card checks), etc etc

+1 this is a great idea.If it can be governed correctly could work great. And its ridiculous to think that c graders are all hacks or don't have commitment our Cs trained twice a week all season and put in as much as any other players at the club but sometimes working ,family or time restraints do come before football.

[ontheblackburner]

C Teams are made up of unfit players or players of less ability and/or commitment - why on earth would you want to glorify that with a cup final ?? Its almost a social kickabout where some take it more seriously than others - same with the Over 35's

If a C Team player is worth any salt, they would be part of their Reserves squad for the Cup. By the end of the season when it is finals time, most C Teams are struggling to field the bare 11 anyway due to injuries etc

Why reward players that cant be assed training etc. I just dont get it.

If you think you are good enough player to challenge for a cup, work your way into your reserves team

This is one of the most ridiculous, pitiful and utterly disgraceful comments ever written on here. You should be ashamed that you posted that drivel. If I was a c grader at IF I'd be embarassed reading that. What about clubs who have depth and those playing Cs are in the Cs because the reserves are too strong? Or those who prefer to play Cs or have family commitments.

Why don't we deserve a cup? We pay our rego, we train, we set-up on match day, clean etc etc

Just an disgraceful comment Robbo

[jedi23]

C Teams are made up of unfit players or players of less ability and/or commitment - why on earth would you want to glorify that with a cup final ?? Its almost a social kickabout where some take it more seriously than others - same with the Over 35's

If a C Team player is worth any salt, they would be part of their Reserves squad for the Cup. By the end of the season when it is finals time, most C Teams are struggling to field the bare 11 anyway due to injuries etc

Why reward players that cant be assed training etc. I just dont get it.

If you think you are good enough player to challenge for a cup, work your way into your reserves team

This is one of the most ridiculous, pitiful and utterly disgraceful comments ever written on here. You should be ashamed that you posted that drivel. If I was a c grader at IF I'd be embarassed reading that. What about clubs who have depth and those playing Cs are in the Cs because the reserves are too strong? Or those who prefer to play Cs or have family commitments.

Why don't we deserve a cup? We pay our rego, we train, we set-up on match day, clean etc etc

Just an disgraceful comment Robbo

+1

[Bodø Glimt]

If a C Team player is worth any salt, they would be part of their Reserves squad for the Cup.

From my own personal experience I chose to play in a C team because the early kickoff allowed me to play before work. A reserve team kick off wouldn't.

[The General]

Doing some rough calculations with both Saturday + Sunday teams, you could have about 64 teams ( not sure if Div 5 Sunday classed as a C team league ? ). Didnt include O/35s they have their own competition.

Would clubs be prepared to play either Saturday / Sunday depending home or away ?

Start time would need to be around 10.15am latest to ensure finished in time for B's Cup game ( if play same weeks as the A's / B's Cup round ) ?

Would your ground be available at that time ?

Given the standard of some the C teams both Saturday and Sunday, I think there would be some good games.

Thoughts ?

[Stokesy]

C Teams are made up of unfit players or players of less ability and/or commitment - why on earth would you want to glorify that with a cup final ?? Its almost a social kickabout where some take it more seriously than others - same with the Over 35's

If a C Team player is worth any salt, they would be part of their Reserves squad for the Cup. By the end of the season when it is finals time, most C Teams are struggling to field the bare 11 anyway due to injuries etc

Why reward players that cant be assed training etc. I just dont get it.

If you think you are good enough player to challenge for a cup, work your way into your reserves team

This is one of the most ridiculous, pitiful and utterly disgraceful comments ever written on here. You should be ashamed that you posted that drivel. If I was a c grader at IF I'd be embarassed reading that. What about clubs who have depth and those playing Cs are in the Cs because the reserves are too strong? Or those who prefer to play Cs or have family commitments.

Why don't we deserve a cup? We pay our rego, we train, we set-up on match day, clean etc etc

Just an disgraceful comment Robbo

+1

I'm also shocked to hear that; I always thought Ingle Farm had a well-managed proud and decent C-team. To label C-teams (including yours) as "made up of unfit players or players of less ability and/or commitment" and to stereotype them as "players that cant be assed training" is ridiculous.

Anyone at the Gardens would see the C's and C2's start training 45 minutes before our first team and reserves and those same players were often the last ones to hit the showers. I'm sure there would be "C" players at Ingle Farm with the same level of commitment that simply struggled to make the cut in the Reserves because of the quality in the squad.

I just hope the IF C-grade players don't check these forums. Your post was a complete joke.

[BPBC]

why slate Robbo? He stated that C Teams are made up of:

a)unfit players
b)players of less ability
c) players of less commitment

There is absolutely nothing untrue about that. if you train, try, put the effort in or whatever, and dont make the B's, you are of less ability. I have played C's for the past 5 years, everyone who has been part of our teams falls under 1 or more of those 3 categories. It is the reserves of the reserves, some clubs even have 3 C teams. where do you draw the line? Is not to say the C grade teams at clubs are unprofessional, some definately are but others are not, just that the players across the board are a mixed bag, compared to, say the Reserves who are generally that bit more professional as the very next step up they take is to play for the A grade

[Stokesy]

why slate Robbo? He stated that C Teams are made up of:

a)unfit players
b)players of less ability
c) players of less commitment

There is absolutely nothing untrue about that. if you train, try, put the effort in or whatever, and dont make the B's, you are of less ability. I have played C's for the past 5 years, everyone who has been part of our teams falls under 1 or more of those 3 categories. It is the reserves of the reserves, some clubs even have 3 C teams. where do you draw the line? Is not to say the C grade teams at clubs are unprofessional, some definately are but others are not, just that the players across the board are a mixed bag, compared to, say the Reserves who are generally that bit more professional as the very next step up they take is to play for the A grade

Players of less ability, yes true.
But I'm taking note that he's putting C's players down by saying: "if a C Team player is worth any salt, they would be part of their Reserves squad". Should the C's at clubs like Parafield or Ingle Farm feel ashamed about being the "reserves of the Reserves"? Surely the IF C's players will take offence to that comment.

The others two are very arguable. The standard of the "C-grade" has changed, there's teams that are young, fit and committed and would benefit from the extra games and experience that would be granted through a Cup competition. And like said above, if you don't have the resources or think you're of that level; then don't enter. To be frank, if you asked the Ingle Farm C players, I bet they'd welcome the opportunity for a C+ team Cup.

[BPBC]

why slate Robbo? He stated that C Teams are made up of:

a)unfit players
b)players of less ability
c) players of less commitment

There is absolutely nothing untrue about that. if you train, try, put the effort in or whatever, and dont make the B's, you are of less ability. I have played C's for the past 5 years, everyone who has been part of our teams falls under 1 or more of those 3 categories. It is the reserves of the reserves, some clubs even have 3 C teams. where do you draw the line? Is not to say the C grade teams at clubs are unprofessional, some definately are but others are not, just that the players across the board are a mixed bag, compared to, say the Reserves who are generally that bit more professional as the very next step up they take is to play for the A grade

Players of less ability, yes true.
But I'm taking note that he's putting C's players down by saying: "if a C Team player is worth any salt, they would be part of their Reserves squad". Should the C's at clubs like Parafield or Ingle Farm feel ashamed about being the "reserves of the Reserves"? Surely the IF C's players will take offence to that comment.

The others two are very arguable. The standard of the "C-grade" has changed, there's teams that are young, fit and committed and would benefit from the extra games and experience that would be granted through a Cup competition. And like said above, if you don't have the resources or think you're of that level; then don't enter. To be frank, if you asked the Ingle Farm C players, I bet they'd welcome the opportunity for a C+ team Cup.

I don't think its changed that much mate, i've been around for a while. 14 years ago at Para Hills West the C grade pretty much ended up being the A grade squad the next year. It just goes back to my point that its a very mixed bag. Some clubs have good young players in the C's, some others have old lazy pricks, some just can't make Sunday arvos. But I do see what you mean in regards to choosing to enter or not, makes sense.

[ontheblackburner]

I couldn't disagree more. In the 6 years I've been playing Cs at Florina the competition has changed dramatically. It's no longer a "shits and giggles" league and every player wants to win and do well.

For the last two seasons I've trained hard and been as fit as I've ever been. I couldn't break the reserves because the players in that team were of a higher quality than me or the coach couldn't fit me into his structure.

I would guess I'd comfortably play reserves at clubs who have a B-Team of lesser quality than ours at Florina.

Your argument is void.

[BPBC]

if thats the way YOU see it then fair enough

By the way our C's do play for sh!ts n giggles, dont train, and won the league you competed in this year

[sephiroth]

obvious issue is A grade players playing in C team cup so clubs chase silverware. big difference in quality between A and C comps. still big difference between A and B but gap is not as large as A and C.