I find it strange

[Željko Jurin]

Major sponsor?
all other sponsors?
ground sponsors?
fundraising?
profit over bar/canteen?

wouldn't this cover all that?

Why can't people just say of course juniors incomes helps seniors, just like seniors income will help juniors. Why all the cloak and daggers?

I've shown you enough expenses to show you where our junior fees go to, actually when you add them all up I am at a negative

Major sponsor goes to Seniors
Ground sponsors goes to seniors (around the Main pitch)

Junior sponsors .... say $500-$1000 x 5 or 6 teams = $5000

Junior Fundraising/junior kiosk income goes to (and is not even enough to cover these expenses);
$5000 for junior trophies
$5000 - $8000 for junior training equipment (balls, bibs, cones)
$4000 junior referees
$3000 off sight junior training in preseason, to preserve the pitches as long as possible

Am I making a profit anywhere, or am I still running in a negative ??

[Željko Jurin]

Now moyesiah, seeing you are up to date with how clubs should spend their junior money, show me your figures pls ?

[GaylyColouredStumps]

ZJ on his way to training...i know where the money goes!

[Željko Jurin]

Did I mention FFSA rego/insurance fees anywhere ?

[Željko Jurin]

All our coaches get one of these as well ....

[The moyesiah]

Now moyesiah, seeing you are up to date with how clubs should spend their junior money, show me your figures pls ?

I could care less what you label what, I'm not against you or any other club. I'm saying every cent that enters a club (who cares where it comes from) is used to run that club. There is nothing wrong with that, I never stated any club is rolling in $100s stored in a back room. I am saying who gives a toss where the money came from, it is Raiders FC income and Raiders FC use that income to run their club however they see fit, without going belly up, why is that wrong? Why defend that?

Hypothetical, Raiders income $100 (from where ever) and it costs $99 to run the club for a year, job done. Who cares if 20$ came from juniors or $50 came from sponsors, you need $100 a year to run the club and you did it, who cares where it comes from.

[Željko Jurin]

Now moyesiah, seeing you are up to date with how clubs should spend their junior money, show me your figures pls ?

I could care less what you label what, I'm not against you or any other club. I'm saying every cent that enters a club (who cares where it comes from) is used to run that club. There is nothing wrong with that, I never stated any club is rolling in $100s stored in a back room. I am saying who gives a toss where the money came from, it is Raiders FC income and Raiders FC use that income to run their club however they see fit, without going belly up, why is that wrong? Why defend that?

Hypothetical, Raiders income $100 (from where ever) and it costs $99 to run the club for a year, job done. Who cares if 20$ came from juniors or $50 came from sponsors, you need $100 a year to run the club and you did it, who cares where it comes from.

Because I've shown you where our junior fees go to (which arent even enough to cover the expences I've shown) ..... and I havent even got to senior wages, which are then covered by senior income/sponsorship, plus all the other expences from that side of things

[Željko Jurin]

And someone has to pay for my Lamborgini, but didnt want to show that anywhere so people wouldnt get upset ....

[paul merson]

What is the comparison in senior wage bills for Sunday Div1 clubs like Parafield Gardens (1st) or Elizabeth downs (2nd) vs Metro (1st) and ABE (2nd)? I bet the difference a year is very close to the difference per year in junior fees.

It's all relevant I'm sure.

As merson has already pointed out just a few posts above, Metro senior payments come from sponsorship.

Are you accusing him of lying or just plain thick?

If you think not $1 from junior fees are not going to seniors in some form, you might ask yourself the same question. I will say Merson is full of it, unknown to the true branches of fees or just political.

Bottom line is ALL money that comes in to a club is used to run the club, and guess what, Seniors are part of the club, it doesn't matter if it's 1000$ of junior fees or $20000 of junior fees.

It doesn't matter if a parent buys a chevap and a can of beer on Saturday, or a parent buys a hotdog and a can of coke on Sunday, this is club money to support the ENTIRE club and the running of the CLUB which involves juniors and seniors.

I'm also told at Mers club they have different line marking buckets for seniors and juniors. They also have two electrical boxes and juniors train under their electricity and seniors under theirs. They also do the same with water, two separate meters, even the rent is split.

Now you've just got pathetic, I'll keep this in mind for future topics.

[Stitch This]

I could care less what you label what, I'm not against you or any other club. I'm saying every cent that enters a club (who cares where it comes from) is used to run that club. There is nothing wrong with that, I never stated any club is rolling in $100s stored in a back room. I am saying who gives a toss where the money came from, it is Raiders FC income and Raiders FC use that income to run their club however they see fit, without going belly up, why is that wrong? Why defend that?

Hypothetical, Raiders income $100 (from where ever) and it costs $99 to run the club for a year, job done. Who cares if 20$ came from juniors or $50 came from sponsors, you need $100 a year to run the club and you did it, who cares where it comes from.

Ok all sorted........but one thing I forgot.

Could you tell us how much FFSA seniors are getting paid? I keep looking for the figure provided by the brain's trust on here, but nothing comes up when I do a search.

[The moyesiah]

Now moyesiah, seeing you are up to date with how clubs should spend their junior money, show me your figures pls ?

I could care less what you label what, I'm not against you or any other club. I'm saying every cent that enters a club (who cares where it comes from) is used to run that club. There is nothing wrong with that, I never stated any club is rolling in $100s stored in a back room. I am saying who gives a toss where the money came from, it is Raiders FC income and Raiders FC use that income to run their club however they see fit, without going belly up, why is that wrong? Why defend that?

Hypothetical, Raiders income $100 (from where ever) and it costs $99 to run the club for a year, job done. Who cares if 20$ came from juniors or $50 came from sponsors, you need $100 a year to run the club and you did it, who cares where it comes from.

Because I've shown you where our junior fees go to (which arent even enough to cover the expences I've shown) ..... and I havent even got to senior wages, which are then covered by senior income/sponsorship, plus all the expences from that side of things

ZJ answer these questions;

Are Junior fees used to run your club in any capacity?
Are Seniors incomes/sponsorships used to run your club in any capacity?

We both know the answer here is yes.

Are Juniors and Seniors a part of the same Raiders club that you pay these bills for?

We both know the answer here is yes.

Is money that comes into the Raiders FC used to run the Raiders FC? (which ever direction it goes)

We both know the answer here is yes.

Why label senior input goes there, junior input goes here, it is all used to run the mighty Raiders FC from Jan1-Dec31. I'm not saying the junior fees pay wages or buy the coke in the fridge, it's used to run the club from top to bottom just like the seniors input is.

[GaylyColouredStumps]

I'm surprised stairway to heaven hasn't told us that it makes him wonder

[Željko Jurin]

ZJ answer these questions;

Are Junior fees used to run your club in any capacity? Yes, the junior capacity
Are Seniors incomes/sponsorships used to run your club in any capacity? Yes, the senior capacity

We both know the answer here is yes. Correct, in their seperate capacities and bank accounts

Are Juniors and Seniors a part of the same Raiders club that you pay these bills for? The expenses I gave were from the Juniors part
We both know the answer here is yes.

Is money that comes into the Raiders FC used to run the Raiders FC? (which ever direction it goes) Seperate income, seperate expenses
We both know the answer here is yes.

Why label senior input goes there, junior input goes here, it is all used to run the mighty Raiders FC from Jan1-Dec31. I'm not saying the junior fees pay wages or buy the coke in the fridge, it's used to run the club from top to bottom just like the seniors input is. Incorrect, as there is not ONE bucket where ALL the income goes in to

I (as well as others), dont like it when people think that all clubs do things the same with their $$

I cannot comment on those clubs that charge $800-$1000 per child, that then get an extra $50,000 total income, and where that money goes
But I do know where all our junior fees go ...... they remain with the juniors

[Željko Jurin]

But dont forget, some of the money was used for my Lamborgini .... but shhh, please dont tell anyone

[Einstein]

Some interesting theories in this thread.

[Bomber]

To put simply, at our club the only part of junior fees that goes into general revenue, are merely the membership fees which are included within the package. Every other cent goes towards running costs/expenses incurred by/for the juniors.

As for timing of trials, given this is what the topic was about, I always held the theory that soon as some clubs start them, if you dont follow soon behind them (or at least at a similar time), maybe much of the "good stock" have already gone. The other thing is it seems to take many months to get kits ready in time for season start, so things have to get cracking early on.

[Željko Jurin]

To put simply, at our club the only part of junior fees that goes into general revenue, are merely the membership fees which are included within the package. Every other cent goes towards running costs/expenses incurred by/for the juniors.

Liar !!!
I saw you driving around in one of these, and rumours were that junior fees helped you pay for it ....

[Bomber]

To put simply, at our club the only part of junior fees that goes into general revenue, are merely the membership fees which are included within the package. Every other cent goes towards running costs/expenses incurred by/for the juniors.

Liar !!!
I saw you driving around in one of these, and rumours were that junior fees helped you pay for it ....

I gave that thing to hawkesy as it suited the area he now dwells in.

[Željko Jurin]

To put simply, at our club the only part of junior fees that goes into general revenue, are merely the membership fees which are included within the package. Every other cent goes towards running costs/expenses incurred by/for the juniors.

Liar !!!
I saw you driving around in one of these, and rumours were that junior fees helped you pay for it ....

I gave that thing to hawkesy as it suited the area he now dwells in.

When did he move Kazakstan ?

[The moyesiah]

I thought 'Amateur' league = No player payments ?

Do amateur players report this income, and pay tax on this income that they are allegedly receiving ?

Just asking, because you might be opeing up a dangerous can of worms here with your post

A bit dramatic. Anyway the point you make about your water, electricity etc, you dont pay a premium because you are Fed. Also your bill is so high due to the amount of grounds you have which in turn allows you to field more teams which = more revenue from fees. Enfield for example has 9 junior teams, how many do you have 15, 20? Based on $650 a kid you could be talking about a 90K take compared to a $180K take. You use more resourses you have to pay. Then these extra players and parents buy their chevap, chips and cans of coke.

These are all my estimates at my junior club ...... not the clubs actuals, but I do know about the water bill, and the apparel cost is not hard to work out

Say 150 kids x $650 = $97,500
50 kids x $300 = $15,000
Total = $112,500 in fees (and I wont take off the coach and manager discounts for their kids)

Water for 3 months = $40,000+
Water for the rest of the 9mths = $20,000 (a guess)

Apparel for 200 kids x $150 = $30,000

Electricity = $20,000 (a guess, probably much more) ... my home costs $4,000 for the year, and I dont have 4 pitches with 9 light towers

Ground maintenance, mowing, line marking = $5,000 to 10,000

Even if I'm out by $10,000 with my 2nd water guess, how much left over change is there ?

What are your senior bills like? After all these are junior bills only right? paid only with junior fees and income.

[Željko Jurin]

1/7th

[Steve#4]

These are all my estimates at my junior club ...... not the clubs actuals, but I do know about the water bill, and the apparel cost is not hard to work out

Say 150 kids x $650 = $97,500
50 kids x $300 = $15,000
Total = $112,500 in fees (and I wont take off the coach and manager discounts for their kids)

Water for 3 months = $40,000+
Water for the rest of the 9mths = $20,000 (a guess)

Apparel for 200 kids x $150 = $30,000

Electricity = $20,000 (a guess, probably much more) ... my home costs $4,000 for the year, and I dont have 4 pitches with 9 light towers

Ground maintenance, mowing, line marking = $5,000 to 10,000

Even if I'm out by $10,000 with my 2nd water guess, how much left over change is there ?

What are your senior bills like? After all these are junior bills only right? paid only with junior fees and income.

I was thinking the same thing...Plus full kits, FFSA fee for Premier League, coaches, strappers/physios and all the tapes/rubs they use, incidentals in running 3 senior sides, after match function expenses...etc, etc....

If you are going to quote figures (which no one asked you to do) give us what the Seniors cost the club as well to balance the argument....

I would think the Juniors give a better return than the Seniors......

[mrrombold]

These are all my estimates at my junior club ...... not the clubs actuals, but I do know about the water bill, and the apparel cost is not hard to work out

Say 150 kids x $650 = $97,500
50 kids x $300 = $15,000
Total = $112,500 in fees (and I wont take off the coach and manager discounts for their kids)

Water for 3 months = $40,000+
Water for the rest of the 9mths = $20,000 (a guess)

Apparel for 200 kids x $150 = $30,000

Electricity = $20,000 (a guess, probably much more) ... my home costs $4,000 for the year, and I dont have 4 pitches with 9 light towers

Ground maintenance, mowing, line marking = $5,000 to 10,000

Even if I'm out by $10,000 with my 2nd water guess, how much left over change is there ?

What are your senior bills like? After all these are junior bills only right? paid only with junior fees and income.

I was thinking the same thing...Plus full kits, FFSA fee for Premier League, coaches, strappers/physios and all the tapes/rubs they use, incidentals in running 3 senior sides, after match function expenses...etc, etc....

If you are going to quote figures (which no one asked you to do) give us what the Seniors cost the club as well to balance the argument....

I would think the Juniors give a better return than the Seniors......

90K in senior wages behind before you even start. Then the affiliation fee is about 12k I think. Then add their portion of the running expenses, power, water etc = about 20K. $300 for each seniors kit approx + 16K. Seems we are getting close to 140K in a blink and if they pay there own club fees (approx 36K) we are back to about a loss of 104K. Then add coaches, strappers, physios bla bla. Could be upward of 120K. Just estimates.

[Željko Jurin]

Dont need to quote the senior side, as I was just showing where our 'junior fees' go

Yes, you need to find another $100k+ to run a senior PL team

[paul merson]

Dont need to quote the senior side, as I was just showing where our 'junior fees' go

Yes, you need to find another $100k+ to run a senior PL team

I get the feeling people are arguing because they actually want to hear that juniors fees fund senior wages not because they want to actually know what happens.

[johnydep]

Dont need to quote the senior side, as I was just showing where our 'junior fees' go

Yes, you need to find another $100k+ to run a senior PL team

I get the feeling people are arguing because they actually want to hear that juniors fees fund senior wages not because they want to actually know what happens.

There is a very easy fix to all this: all parents that do not want their 'juniors' money to be part of a senior club structure - leave! Go to a club or organisation that does not have a senior side.

It's that easy; no whinging, no complaining, no worry about fees, no having to support a senior side - you're all free.

[paul merson]

Dont need to quote the senior side, as I was just showing where our 'junior fees' go

Yes, you need to find another $100k+ to run a senior PL team

I get the feeling people are arguing because they actually want to hear that juniors fees fund senior wages not because they want to actually know what happens.

There is a very easy fix to all this: all parents that do not want their 'juniors' money to be part of a senior club structure - leave! Go to a club or organisation that does not have a senior side.

It's that easy; no whinging, no complaining, no worry about fees, no having to support a senior side - you're all free.

That's way too sensible for footballnews

[The moyesiah]

Dont need to quote the senior side, as I was just showing where our 'junior fees' go

Yes, you need to find another $100k+ to run a senior PL team

I get the feeling people are arguing because they actually want to hear that juniors fees fund senior wages not because they want to actually know what happens.

There is a very easy fix to all this: all parents that do not want their 'juniors' money to be part of a senior club structure - leave! Go to a club or organisation that does not have a senior side.

It's that easy; no whinging, no complaining, no worry about fees, no having to support a senior side - you're all free.

Finally someone that can actually admit that a club has money that comes into it from many areas, the club also pays out money to many areas. There is no juniors that support this or seniors that support that, there is a club that supports EVERYTHING.

The club as an entity needs 200K a year to run, the club gets that 200K from many areas, juniors/seniors/sponsorship's/donations/grants/fundraisers/canteen/bar/raffles/events/bottle returns/whatever else a club does to generate money.

Some clubs might have a little left over, some clubs have a lot left over, some clubs don't even make it, either way they don't all split the profit between board members, it is stored for another season where they may fall short, or put towards the growth of the club to move forward.

[POLONIAROCS]

I played at Polonia SC for 10 years. From juniors to seniors. From late 80s to late 90s. In those times there was never major arguements about supporting the seniors.

The juniors and even amateur teams would contribute to the senior club. I cant remember costs but lets just say $50 per person.

The senior club would then use this money for all its expenses and upgardes. Some could have been for player payments / water / clubroom upgrades etc.

Now it just seems that people want all their money to go to their team only and no one else. You cant get anywhere like this.

People will complian about supporting their seniors for $50 but they are happy to spend $100 a week on smokes.

And the people that complain often do the least to help out.

[regangrandson]

Dont need to quote the senior side, as I was just showing where our 'junior fees' go

Yes, you need to find another $100k+ to run a senior PL team

U18/Res/Seniors 120K divided by about 55 players. So each cost about $2k to pit on the park. It's not that it''s a terrible thing, just a fact that seniors are susidused by income coming from juniors fees. If people don''t like it they can FO, but stop ******** about it not being the case.

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