New Junior Structure 2014

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robinfriday10
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by robinfriday10 »

Željko Jurin wrote:Sorry, but I can not see Salisbury parents driving their kids to join Metro .... totally different demographics

Just like South Adelaide parents will not go to join White City

Ask most kids, and they'll say they want to keep playing with their mates

Yes, like the example above, there are a few clubs and a couple of age groups that will be advantaged ..... But MAJORITY, and a big majority, will all be the same as is, minus the promotion and relegation
But you have kids coming from Kapunda, Two Wells and Gawler ZJ....and these kids were playing with their mates but left so to get better opportunites to develop through playing at ahigher level. You even had kid/s leave Para Hills where they had played with mates because they could see certain teams at your club were getting stronger and the coaching was stronger..
Kids will always leave and go to stronger leagues if their clubs can't give that level to improve. No different to seniors
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

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Željko Jurin wrote:
paul merson wrote:
Željko Jurin wrote:
Sorry, but I can not see Salisbury parents driving their kids to join Metro .... totally different demographics
Just like South Adelaide parents will not go to join White City

Ask most kids, and they'll say they want to keep playing with their mates

Yes, like the example above, there are a few clubs and a couple of age groups that will be advantaged ..... But MAJORITY, and a big majority, will all be the same as is, minus the promotion and relegation
My parents drove me from Craigmore to Firle (ED Azzurri) for 4 or so years to train & play.
Why ?
Because a group of about 6 or 7 of us went from a E&D club to Azzurri together, oh & we lived in Craigmore.
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by Željko Jurin »

Aha ..... so you didn't leave another Fed club ...
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by paul merson »

Željko Jurin wrote:Aha ..... so you didn't leave another Fed club ...
Nah, Azzurri was my first Fed club.
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by Željko Jurin »

paul merson wrote:
Željko Jurin wrote:Aha ..... so you didn't leave another Fed club ...
Nah, Azzurri was my first Fed club.
So my statement above still stands ...
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

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Željko Jurin wrote:
paul merson wrote:
Željko Jurin wrote:Aha ..... so you didn't leave another Fed club ...
Nah, Azzurri was my first Fed club.
So my statement above still stands ...
Sorry, but I can not see Salisbury parents driving their kids to join Metro .... totally different demographics

No it doesnt, Im sure we have plenty of kids being driven from Salisbury to play at Metro, as I pointed out my parents drove me a lot further than that. Or am I taking that statement the wrong way?
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by SILENT P »

I had kids coming to Oakden from McLaren Vale, Mt.Barker and Flagstaff Hill.
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by Željko Jurin »

paul merson wrote:
Željko Jurin wrote:
paul merson wrote:
Nah, Azzurri was my first Fed club.
So my statement above still stands ...
Sorry, but I can not see Salisbury parents driving their kids to join Metro .... totally different demographics

No it doesnt, Im sure we have plenty of kids being driven from Salisbury to play at Metro, as I pointed out my parents drove me a lot further than that. Or am I taking that statement the wrong way?
Kids currently 'playing' at Fed club Salisbury, not kids living at/around Salisbury
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by paul merson »

Željko Jurin wrote:
paul merson wrote:[quote="Željko Jurin]
So my statement above still stands ...
Sorry, but I can not see Salisbury parents driving their kids to join Metro .... totally different demographics

No it doesnt, Im sure we have plenty of kids being driven from Salisbury to play at Metro, as I pointed out my parents drove me a lot further than that. Or am I taking that statement the wrong way?
Kids currently 'playing' at Fed club Salisbury, not kids living at/around Salisbury[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Ah, I was taking it as Salisbury the area, not sure I agree totally though.
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by robinfriday10 »

Why wouldn't they leave Salisbury to go to Metro if they are stuck in the B division. I'm sure they would leave Salisbury to go to a strong club like Metro given the chance. Thats why you have those kids that travel from Kapunda,Gawler etc playing at your club, because the club they were at don't have strong sides in their age group
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by The moyesiah »

robinfriday10 wrote:Why wouldn't they leave Salisbury to go to Metro if they are stuck in the B division. I'm sure they would leave Salisbury to go to a strong club like Metro given the chance. Thats why you have those kids that travel from Kapunda,Gawler etc playing at your club, because the club they were at don't have strong sides in their age group
Modbury / Para Hills all close to Salisbury and all PL clubs, let alone Metro. Sheesh one quick 10 minute drive down the northern connector and you have Croydon/Strikers/White City all PL clubs, not to mention a minor detour to WA/AC/Comets again all PL clubs.
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by Temperance »

The moyesiah wrote:
robinfriday10 wrote:Why wouldn't they leave Salisbury to go to Metro if they are stuck in the B division. I'm sure they would leave Salisbury to go to a strong club like Metro given the chance. Thats why you have those kids that travel from Kapunda,Gawler etc playing at your club, because the club they were at don't have strong sides in their age group
Modbury / Para Hills all close to Salisbury and all PL clubs, let alone Metro. Sheesh one quick 10 minute drive down the northern connector and you have Croydon/Strikers/White City all PL clubs, not to mention a minor detour to WA/AC/Comets again all PL clubs.





Yes, Modbury (if promoted, still close) Para Hills and Metro are all in the same area...... The argument is the unfair advantage given to the Premier league clubs through the new system.

Salisbury and others in the State League still stand to have their best juniors leave to play in the "A" league through no fault of their club, other than if they stay they will be playing against weaker opposition week in, week out with the odd 2 or 3 stronger teams that choose to stay with their State league club.
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

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Željko Jurin wrote:Can someone please explain to me why they think there will be more year long beltings, that doesn't already currently happen in all age groups, and in all divisions currently A,B or C ?

I repeat, 8 out of 80 State League teams are effected, of which most of those 8 are in the bottom half of their divisions

That is rubbish! We think it will affect the majority (perhaps 5 or 6 of our teams just in our club alone next season. So how can you say it will only affect 8 teams total?

People should not be so short sighted and look at what the leagues will be next year but the ramifications for the players and clubs for the future.

If our best players move to a PL club then there goes our development of a good senior team for the future that we were potentially starting to build so that one day they would be a good senior side and not only would gain promotion in the men's premier league but stay there!

I get the best should play the best, but some potential SL clubs have good coaches and good players and teams and if they leave their club it could really hurt their future.

If winning is not everything and development is what it is all about then I hope they are not intending on having a league ladder and points for either the PL or SL. You wouldn't need it would you? Because at the end of the day if it is all bout development their will be no need for FFSA to record any results.

I think we should be careful for what we wish for!
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by Mrs Red »

SILENT P wrote:I had kids coming to Oakden from McLaren Vale, Mt.Barker and Flagstaff Hill.
Oakden is very close to Blue Eagles! From memory you are at Blue Eagles??

You may get a few families that are able and willing to travel, the emphasis being on able. Some families have two parents working, multiple kids playing different sports, to say that well some travel long distances to get to a particular club then why can't they all, is very unfair and for the majority would be untrue.
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by Temperance »

Mrs Red wrote:
Željko Jurin wrote:Can someone please explain to me why they think there will be more year long beltings, that doesn't already currently happen in all age groups, and in all divisions currently A,B or C ?

I repeat, 8 out of 80 State League teams are effected, of which most of those 8 are in the bottom half of their divisions

That is rubbish! We think it will affect the majority (perhaps 5 or 6 of our teams just in our club alone next season. So how can you say it will only affect 8 teams total?

People should not be so short sighted and look at what the leagues will be next year but the ramifications for the players and clubs for the future.

If our best players move to a PL club then there goes our development of a good senior team for the future that we were potentially starting to build so that one day they would be a good senior side and not only would gain promotion in the men's premier league but stay there!

I get the best should play the best, but some potential SL clubs have good coaches and good players and teams and if they leave their club it could really hurt their future.

If winning is not everything and development is what it is all about then I hope they are not intending on having a league ladder and points for either the PL or SL. You wouldn't need it would you? Because at the end of the day if it is all bout development their will be no need for FFSA to record any results.

I think we should be careful for what we wish for!


Bang!
+1
If winning is not everything and development is what it is all about then I hope they are not intending on having a league ladder
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by paul merson »

Are all NPL clubs planning on putting on extra teams to accomodate all these players that are going to come flocking? Or will the same amount of positions still be available, you know, all those ones currently filled by the kids playing at the NPL clubs now.

I thought parents would start shifting kids when the PPS came in but hasnt really.
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by SILENT P »

Mrs Red wrote:
SILENT P wrote:I had kids coming to Oakden from McLaren Vale, Mt.Barker and Flagstaff Hill.
Oakden is very close to Blue Eagles! From memory you are at Blue Eagles??

You may get a few families that are able and willing to travel, the emphasis being on able. Some families have two parents working, multiple kids playing different sports, to say that well some travel long distances to get to a particular club then why can't they all, is very unfair and for the majority would be untrue.
I was at Blue Eagles, about 5 years ago.

I don't disagree with you. Some parents can and will and some just can't do it. I wanted to play for Adelaide City as a kid but my mum wouldn't let me as Blue Eagles was much closer.

I was just stating how far some kids or parents are willing to go.
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by Željko Jurin »

Mrs Red wrote:
Željko Jurin wrote:Can someone please explain to me why they think there will be more year long beltings, that doesn't already currently happen in all age groups, and in all divisions currently A,B or C ?

I repeat, 8 out of 80 State League teams are effected, of which most of those 8 are in the bottom half of their divisions

That is rubbish! We think it will affect the majority (perhaps 5 or 6 of our teams just in our club alone next season. So how can you say it will only affect 8 teams total?
Please, please explain to me how 5 or 6 of Modburys junior teams (only look at where tables are) will be effected if your Seniors aren't in PL next year ?

Currently,
U12s .... 6th from 10 teams, would be in B or C div next year
U13s .... 9th from 10 teams in B div
U14s .... 3rd/4th from 10 teams in B div
U15s ..... 2nd-5th from 10 teams in B div with less games in hand then opposition
U16s ..... 7th from 10 teams in B div
U17s ...... NA

No disrespect to any State League clubs in any of my posts, but if ANY SL clubs had atleast 3, 4 or 5 junior teams in A div, ok there is a case
But most of the SL clubs have 0 or 1 junior team in A Div currently, what's gonna change ?
Also, are these players good enough for other clubs PL teams that you all keep saying are going to leave your clubs ?

A lot of assumptions .....

Do I need to go through each SL clubs juniors like I did above ?
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by bandito »

My boys play at Metro and we travel 35 minutes up and back. Whilst I agree this is not possible for some and perhaps some may not be willing to drive those distances, one of my boys played in the b division for 4 out of 5 years at the club. Whilst opportunities were presented at the end of almost every season to move clubs and play in division one, my son decided to stay with 'his mates' and try and contibute to a team effort. Where has loyalty and commitment gone now days. Glad to say that my son did stay and together with a great group of boys clawed their way into division one which they can say they contributed to and be proud of.......I have seen people leave because their team is no longer in div 1 for a div 1 team....personally why not try and bring the team back up. I understand developement and all the other comments made on this forum....however, we all need to put into perspective that not all kids that are playing are going to even make a senior team. My sons and our family have made some great friendships at Metro which I am sure will continue irrispective of which club we are at, and ultimately isn't this really what its all about. I think as adults its our job to put into perspective what football really is, its not always about the win, (yes it is nice) however it builds character, teamwork and friendships.
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by Željko Jurin »

Well said
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by runcorn2adelaide »

We live in the Western Suburbs, but we take our Kinds out to Oakden & Pooraka. (City & Metro Women s)
They have both previously played in Federation clubs in Western suburbs,
but they chose to move them for better competition and higher division.
No question, both have improved this year and are thoroughly enjoying their football

That said, Salisbury is pretty unique in its club atmosphere, and could understand why it would be a difficult decision to children/parents to make.
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

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Željko Jurin wrote:
Please, please explain to me how 5 or 6 of Modburys junior teams (only look at where tables are) will be effected if your Seniors aren't in PL next year ?

Currently,
U12s .... 6th from 10 teams, would be in B or C div next year
U13s .... 9th from 10 teams in B div
U14s .... 3rd/4th from 10 teams in B div
U15s ..... 2nd-5th from 10 teams in B div with less games in hand then opposition
U16s ..... 7th from 10 teams in B div
U17s ...... NA

No disrespect to any State League clubs in any of my posts, but if ANY SL clubs had atleast 3, 4 or 5 junior teams in A div, ok there is a case
But most of the SL clubs have 0 or 1 junior team in A Div currently, what's gonna change ?
Also, are these players good enough for other clubs PL teams that you all keep saying are going to leave your clubs ?

A lot of assumptions .....

Do I need to go through each SL clubs juniors like I did above ?
You are missing the point it does not only have to be about the teams /leagues you listed above. What if I had a potential coach for one of our SSF teams who has a very good lad (sibling) in the older age groups. with this structure he might just be thinking, it might be better to move to another club for the development of my older child. This scenario would lead to an SSF team now having no coach at our club and potentially could mean we have no coach for that team and no coach means no team. So this affects the number of players and teams at our club. This is only a scenario, so by no means think this is a fact but it very well could be.

I like to think outside the square and think about all the pluses and minus for any given situation and try and form an opinion accordingly. Theories are great but when reality hits they don't always work as well as we had hoped them too and they may affect us in ways that we never really thought of.
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by Željko Jurin »

So for your 1 coach and older son, that 'might' jump ship (have you spoken to him?), we don't restructure ?

Again, would he actually be good enough anyway for a PL team, 'if' he did jump ship ?
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by johnydep »

bandito wrote:My boys play at Metro and we travel 35 minutes up and back. Whilst I agree this is not possible for some and perhaps some may not be willing to drive those distances, one of my boys played in the b division for 4 out of 5 years at the club. Whilst opportunities were presented at the end of almost every season to move clubs and play in division one, my son decided to stay with 'his mates' and try and contribute to a team effort. Where has loyalty and commitment gone now days. Glad to say that my son did stay and together with a great group of boys clawed their way into division one which they can say they contributed to and be proud of.......I have seen people leave because their team is no longer in div 1 for a div 1 team....personally why not try and bring the team back up. I understand development and all the other comments made on this forum....however, we all need to put into perspective that not all kids that are playing are going to even make a senior team. My sons and our family have made some great friendships at Metro which I am sure will continue irrespective of which club we are at, and ultimately isn't this really what its all about. I think as adults its our job to put into perspective what football really is, its not always about the win, (yes it is nice) however it builds character, teamwork and friendships.
Well said.
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

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bandito wrote:My boys play at Metro and we travel 35 minutes up and back. Whilst I agree this is not possible for some and perhaps some may not be willing to drive those distances, one of my boys played in the b division for 4 out of 5 years at the club. Whilst opportunities were presented at the end of almost every season to move clubs and play in division one, my son decided to stay with 'his mates' and try and contibute to a team effort. Where has loyalty and commitment gone now days. Glad to say that my son did stay and together with a great group of boys clawed their way into division one which they can say they contributed to and be proud of.......I have seen people leave because their team is no longer in div 1 for a div 1 team....personally why not try and bring the team back up. I understand developement and all the other comments made on this forum....however, we all need to put into perspective that not all kids that are playing are going to even make a senior team. My sons and our family have made some great friendships at Metro which I am sure will continue irrispective of which club we are at, and ultimately isn't this really what its all about. I think as adults its our job to put into perspective what football really is, its not always about the win, (yes it is nice) however it builds character, teamwork and friendships.
there it is. He showed loyalty and team effort and was rewarded with promotion which he can be proud of. You're taking this away from the kids with the new ideas. Would he have stayed if there was no possible chance of helping his mates gain promotion to the A division? It gave that "B" squad a common goal. Develop, play well and earn the right to play against the best.

Clubs dont need to have 7 strong age groups. I look at certain SL clubs and think "1 strong team out of 6-7".. but that 1 strong team will be the clubs saving grace. 4-5 out of that squad may take the step to first team football. Not everyone has the luxury of having 6-7 strong sides, and thats why each age group has its own promotion and relegation.

Think of United and its class of 92. 1 youth team squad that went on to shape the club.
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by Mrs Red »

Željko Jurin wrote:So for your 1 coach and older son, that 'might' jump ship (have you spoken to him?), we don't restructure ?

Again, would he actually be good enough anyway for a PL team, 'if' he did jump ship ?
Zelko there are so many points.............................

Another...................
We don't re structure because I don't believe 95% (juniors) of our club should be put in a league that is dependent on what 5% (senior team) of the club achieves.
That is unfair to put that amount of pressure on a senior team! Oh by the way! if you don't get us promoted you will have 100's of families in our juniors not happy, not to mention the hard working volunteers administering the club! That is bollocks!

Junior teams should be put in a league (call it what you like, red blue green, A, B, C, etc) with teams of equal ability
not due to the season your senior team had.
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by Željko Jurin »

When I was a junior this is how it was, it never got questioned and there was never a problem ..... when it all changed and why I don't know

So unless someone who has also been there with me can dispute it, all what you and others are saying are only 'assumptions' of what you think is going to happen
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by paul merson »

Mrs Red wrote:
Željko Jurin wrote:So for your 1 coach and older son, that 'might' jump ship (have you spoken to him?), we don't restructure ?

Again, would he actually be good enough anyway for a PL team, 'if' he did jump ship ?
Zelko there are so many points.............................

Another...................
We don't re structure because I don't believe 95% (juniors) of our club should be put in a league that is dependent on what 5% (senior team) of the club achieves.
That is unfair to put that amount of pressure on a senior team! Oh by the way! if you don't get us promoted you will have 100's of families in our juniors not happy, not to mention the hard working volunteers administering the club! That is bollocks!

The whole perpuse of clubs, in my opinion, is to produce players, players to fit into the clubs philosophy on how the games played which should be reflected by the first team.

All the junior teams should be making these kids as good as they can, so when they get to under 18's they can start moulding them into what the senior team needs, progression then goes on to the reserves where all players should be prepped ready to walk into their position in the seniors with out a hiccup.

What the FFSA has done has removed that urge to play for wins to get promoted, as has been mentioned in here and other topics.

I realise junior parents will probably not accept this and it surprises me Mat that you dont being on both sides of the fence, but thats the reality, I am a junior parent and senior player and to be junior coach soon, will I do it to get a team promoted or win the league? No chance, despite the fact my club is implimenting coaching KPI's which dont even mention results.

I think back to my junior days and yes the world did revolve around us, winning an under 17 cup was life or death, do I think playing for results all through my career hampered my development, YES.
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by DUKE BLUE »

Just a couple of “points” to add to the discussion.

1) “Over the years there were 3 families at Raiders with 3 siblings in each who all play for Raiders (different age groups) they spend far too much time on their "logistical nightmare's" for each Sunday's game, sometimes one of their kids would not even have their parents at the game to watch them. I guarantee that there would be many clubs with similar.

2) We will improve the Club to Club Atmosphere ...2 clubs coming together on the day (home or away)...Would certainly improve relationships between clubs & maybe just maybe get the juniors coming to the senior games to improve the overall “IMAGE” of the game.

I know from my own experience that I would hang around to watch another Raiders game to be played at the away club & hanging around would then entice me buy a bucket of chips & a fizzy drink to help the fundraising of that club.
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Re: New Junior Structure 2014

Post by matty2323 »

paul merson wrote:
The whole perpuse of clubs, in my opinion, is to produce players, players to fit into the clubs philosophy on how the games played which should be reflected by the first team.

All the junior teams should be making these kids as good as they can, so when they get to under 18's they can start moulding them into what the senior team needs, progression then goes on to the reserves where all players should be prepped ready to walk into their position in the seniors with out a hiccup.

What the FFSA has done has removed that urge to play for wins to get promoted, as has been mentioned in here and other topics.

I realise junior parents will probably not accept this and it surprises me Mat that you dont being on both sides of the fence, but thats the reality, I am a junior parent and senior player and to be junior coach soon, will I do it to get a team promoted or win the league? No chance, despite the fact my club is implimenting coaching KPI's which dont even mention results.

I think back to my junior days and yes the world did revolve around us, winning an under 17 cup was life or death, do I think playing for results all through my career hampered my development, YES.
I agree Dan, and at no stage do i put results/promotion ahead of player development. But as a junior coach at a club that dosen't have the attraction of Metro, Raiders, City, BEagles etc, im also clearly aware of how hard it is for us to attract players to the club, both at a junior and senior level. We rely on promoting junior players through the club and having them play senior football. 14-16 of the current first team squad are Playford juniors.

As a metro coach, you dont have to worry about results because your club naturally attracts more ambitious and higher quality talent that, if coached correctly, will be strong. We dont worry about results either at Playford, but we do value our more talented youth players, and if you take the need for competition away from those kids, they will seek it somewhere else. We're already fighting an up hill battle just to attract kids to the club, now we have to fight even harder to keep them there. What will happen to a club like Playford when they can no longer produce their own talent? They cant attract senior players, so they will cease to exist.

My first coaching role as u14's (and then 15's) has produced 1 current senior player, and 8 playing reserves for the club. Taking the under12's this season i scouted local E&D clubs. Elizabeth Downs, Munno Para etc. Would you like to attend trials at Playford? No thanks, im going to Para Hills, im going to Raiders.. and on top of that was Metro and Croydon. 4 years of coaching at the club and i've become aware of how hard it is to compete with these other clubs in terms of just getting kids out to trials, let alone developing them.
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