New Junior Structure 2014

[matty2323]

Do the kids want to play A division, or the parents ?

Do the kids want promotion, or the parents ?

Kids leave if they're not in the A division, or their parents ?

either way ZJ, as there legal guardian those parents get to make the decisions. They pay for things, and like a school, they want the best possible club/coaching/competition.

So you agree ?

Kids just want to play, and if there's atleast points and a table, they're happy ? Agree ?

Just because kids are happy, dosent mean its great for development. Are kids happy winning or losing 25-0? no. Ambitious kids want tough games, because they get to test themselves against good teams. With this set up, some of my kids at playford could go their who junior career winning games by 10 goals, and not face their first challenge until they hit senior football at 16-17 years old. Im all for change, but not at the omission of balance.

[Facts and Stats]

What do you call young though? I think over 12 they are not young and want to win and get one over others.

We have 15 and 16 year olds playing seniors, when do you change from being a 'kid' to an adult, which is all about winning.

[matty2323]

Kind of like:
Would you be happier being bottom of the A div or top of B div?

pretty sure 2-3 years (13s-15s) of being bottom of Div A would see players wanting to move to a top Div B side, in turn creating spaces for top Div B players to join a Div A club.

There is a reason though that clubs like Aston Villa, Crewe, Southampton, West Ham, Ajax to name a few continue to produce great players, even when they are not the best in their league/continent (e.g. young lads going to Ajax could chose to head to EPL/La Liga/Serie A etc.). They have a proven set up and track record of producing players, achieved behind the scenes by people committed to making it happen (these academies were around before the last 20 years influx of money in to football.

very true, but having said that, making the first team in those teams left them with opportunity. Take a look at the juniors West Ham have produced in the current EPL sides. There's so many, but how many stayed at West Ham? not many. But they still had the opportunity to attract those players, develop them and get first team football out of them. They also make $$ out of them.

This set up will restrict the ability of SL clubs to recruit top level youth talent because we aren't a large footballing state, and there will always be room in the PL teams for top youths. Your argument is that the player not wanted by the PL club will need a club so the SL club should pick him up.. like i said, scraps.

[Željko Jurin]

What do you call young though? I think over 12 they are not young and want to win and get one over others.
.

Did I say anything that differs to this ?

[matty2323]

What do you call young though? I think over 12 they are not young and want to win and get one over others.

We have 15 and 16 year olds playing seniors, when do you change from being a 'kid' to an adult, which is all about winning.

i was 13 in state squads and i wanted both. i wanted to win while developing. winning creates confidence, and confidence is the key development. Kids are more likely to express themselves when they're confident and its producing results. My personal opinion is i hate coaches with a win at all costs mentality, but i think people have started going in the other direction and now dont want any score. Kids still know the score, they still count. Its about finding a balance. To focus on development and allow the kids to enjoy the reward of positive results. Kids care, they might go to school with 15-20 other kids who play local league at their age, and being in the Playford "B division" dosen't sound as good as the Enfield "A division" teams.. Kids care..

[Željko Jurin]

Your argument is that the player not wanted by the PL club will need a club so the SL club should pick him up.. like i said, scraps.

No, my argument is get good coaches in, start SSF at u6s rather then kids to just flock to a club at u12s, start getting a name as a club that you actually do develop and improve players at most age groups (and not just 1 or 2), and maybe things might progress ..... rather then just giving up because there is no promotion and relegation

[matty2323]

Your argument is that the player not wanted by the PL club will need a club so the SL club should pick him up.. like i said, scraps.

No, my argument is get good coaches in, start SSF at u6s rather then kids to just flock to a club at u12s, start getting a name as a club that you actually do develop and improve players at most age groups (and not just 1 or 2), and maybe things might progress ..... rather then just giving up because there is no promotion and relegation

We've started SSGs this season. Im actually led to believe the club had an agreement in place with E&D teams that we would hold out till u12's to ensure they were still involved in the process. I love the idea of SSG's and development, but what do we do in the 10 years its going to take to develop those current 6-8 year olds now that we will lose 90% of our current 12-16 years old with genuine talent? Buy players like Raiders did? no, sorry we dont have the money to do that... Implement this is 5 years time and give clubs the opportunity to prepare for it, and yes, i could then support it.. but to drop it like this, its suicidal for SL clubs.

[Željko Jurin]

Did we buy players ?

Didn't realise Playford received transfer money from us

[The Kings Jesta]

Kind of like:
Would you be happier being bottom of the A div or top of B div?

pretty sure 2-3 years (13s-15s) of being bottom of Div A would see players wanting to move to a top Div B side, in turn creating spaces for top Div B players to join a Div A club.

There is a reason though that clubs like Aston Villa, Crewe, Southampton, West Ham, Ajax to name a few continue to produce great players, even when they are not the best in their league/continent (e.g. young lads going to Ajax could chose to head to EPL/La Liga/Serie A etc.). They have a proven set up and track record of producing players, achieved behind the scenes by people committed to making it happen (these academies were around before the last 20 years influx of money in to football.

very true, but having said that, making the first team in those teams left them with opportunity. Take a look at the juniors West Ham have produced in the current EPL sides. There's so many, but how many stayed at West Ham? not many. But they still had the opportunity to attract those players, develop them and get first team football out of them. They also make $$ out of them.

This set up will restrict the ability of SL clubs to recruit top level youth talent because we aren't a large footballing state, and there will always be room in the PL teams for top youths. Your argument is that the player not wanted by the PL club will need a club so the SL club should pick him up.. like i said, scraps.

Point about most of those clubs is they are still in their countries/continents top tier. they've sold some on and kept a lot. VIlla even managed to keep Benteke this year as Lambert had a chat with him about the long term plans and Benteke is on board for that. It'll take a few out of their comfort zone, and require a little more ground work from the beginning, but the long term benefits could be huge if done right.
You may say they are scraps, but look around the EPL at teams that have former Man U/Liverpool/Arsenal etc. graduates and they are still in the top division. One mans trash can be another mans treasure. They may have been good enough but not quite as good as someone already in their position.
Maybe the FFSA should limit each club to one team in each age group (no more U16 JPL and JSL team for example) and also ask each club to register a maximum of 16 players per team (spots on a team sheet) at the start of the season. If the team is missing players then players need to be promoted from below. This will mean there will be a natural overflow of players down, allowing clubs below the top to pick up some quality players to compliment their current crop.
This would also work very well as the new structure will allow for the juniors to have Sunday's like the seniors do Saturday's i.e. a natural flow from the youngest team to the oldest all at the same venue.
Benefits:
when the 15s need a player he is already at the same ground playing for the 14's
clubs can plan their day for canteen and other facilities properly as they will be hosting 12s/13s/14s/15s/16s and possibly 17s on the same day (ground usage may force half teams at home half aways round 1 and the opposite round 16). Some clubs have to open up for one game on some Sunday's and make no money as neither the home nor away side hang around for food after.

I'll also reiterate: if marketed properly to the juniors, you could make a big push for better crowds at the seniors games as they'll be cheering for the current team to go up so they too can play in a higher division. If they don't back the first team, don't complain when you're not moving to the top league. Better crowds means better revenues.
I remember a couple of "Juniors" days at Cumberland where the young lads were ball boys, all the kids got a free feed and drink (parents had to pay so there was money made) and the atmosphere on the pitch was far better as it felt like you were actually playing for the club (200 kids/parents/junior committee was much better than the usual 50 or so, with respect, usual suspects). Makes the players lift a notch or 2 in my experience

[matty2323]

Did we buy players ?

Didn't realise Playford received transfer money from us

not the current group, im speaking back in the day. And considering the wages you offer are around 50% pay increase for the Playford lads, it is a way of "buying" them. At no stage will i ever disrespect Raiders, like i said, i think they're the bench mark, but you cant implement a structure like this at the end of a season and just expect everyone to evolve. Seniors wanted longer seasons for 5 years + now all of a sudden they want to overhaul the system in 4 months and give no clubs time to prepare..

[matty2323]

Kind of like:
Would you be happier being bottom of the A div or top of B div?

pretty sure 2-3 years (13s-15s) of being bottom of Div A would see players wanting to move to a top Div B side, in turn creating spaces for top Div B players to join a Div A club.

There is a reason though that clubs like Aston Villa, Crewe, Southampton, West Ham, Ajax to name a few continue to produce great players, even when they are not the best in their league/continent (e.g. young lads going to Ajax could chose to head to EPL/La Liga/Serie A etc.). They have a proven set up and track record of producing players, achieved behind the scenes by people committed to making it happen (these academies were around before the last 20 years influx of money in to football.

very true, but having said that, making the first team in those teams left them with opportunity. Take a look at the juniors West Ham have produced in the current EPL sides. There's so many, but how many stayed at West Ham? not many. But they still had the opportunity to attract those players, develop them and get first team football out of them. They also make $$ out of them.

This set up will restrict the ability of SL clubs to recruit top level youth talent because we aren't a large footballing state, and there will always be room in the PL teams for top youths. Your argument is that the player not wanted by the PL club will need a club so the SL club should pick him up.. like i said, scraps.

Point about most of those clubs is they are still in their countries/continents top tier. they've sold some on and kept a lot. VIlla even managed to keep Benteke this year as Lambert had a chat with him about the long term plans and Benteke is on board for that. It'll take a few out of their comfort zone, and require a little more ground work from the beginning, but the long term benefits could be huge if done right.
You may say they are scraps, but look around the EPL at teams that have former Man U/Liverpool/Arsenal etc. graduates and they are still in the top division. One mans trash can be another mans treasure. They may have been good enough but not quite as good as someone already in their position.
Maybe the FFSA should limit each club to one team in each age group (no more U16 JPL and JSL team for example) and also ask each club to register a maximum of 16 players per team (spots on a team sheet) at the start of the season. If the team is missing players then players need to be promoted from below. This will mean there will be a natural overflow of players down, allowing clubs below the top to pick up some quality players to compliment their current crop.
This would also work very well as the new structure will allow for the juniors to have Sunday's like the seniors do Saturday's i.e. a natural flow from the youngest team to the oldest all at the same venue.
Benefits:
when the 15s need a player he is already at the same ground playing for the 14's
clubs can plan their day for canteen and other facilities properly as they will be hosting 12s/13s/14s/15s/16s and possibly 17s on the same day (ground usage may force half teams at home half aways round 1 and the opposite round 16). Some clubs have to open up for one game on some Sunday's and make no money as neither the home nor away side hang around for food after.

I'll also reiterate: if marketed properly to the juniors, you could make a big push for better crowds at the seniors games as they'll be cheering for the current team to go up so they too can play in a higher division. If they don't back the first team, don't complain when you're not moving to the top league. Better crowds means better revenues.
I remember a couple of "Juniors" days at Cumberland where the young lads were ball boys, all the kids got a free feed and drink (parents had to pay so there was money made) and the atmosphere on the pitch was far better as it felt like you were actually playing for the club (200 kids/parents/junior committee was much better than the usual 50 or so, with respect, usual suspects). Makes the players lift a notch or 2 in my experience

Please don't take my incessant apprehension at what you're saying personally, i look at things from my clubs perspective. This is all great, but its all theoretical. I'm worried about the future of my club, I'm at my club 7 days a week and i personally believe that the initial shock and knee jerk reaction of players swarming to PL clubs will leave my club on the brink of ceasing to exist. Our position is already peculiar, i work my ass off as a coach to give them the best training cause i know that one slip up, and Raiders is awaiting them...

Is our club run in the best possible manner? no. Could we have done things better in the past? of course. Want to introduce something like this in the future? sure, but give clubs time to prepare. Allow them to meet all the criteria of SSGs first, give them 4-5 years to set it up and establish themselves, then make the changes. We, as a club, know the position we're in. We cant buy players, we cant even offer better wages then the fringe players at other SL clubs, so we rely on producing youth talent. Like ive said, 90% of the reserves side is eligible for u16's, and those kids were all in the A divisions within the last 2 seasons at junior level.

Im of the belief that this will put my club at further disadvantage. we're already competing with the reputations of other northern clubs, and keeping hold of talent is hard enough, now you want to take away the A division status many of these players worked their socks off for?

[Željko Jurin]

SSF came in in 2009, it's 5th year in place now, can't blame the FFSA for not giving enough time for clubs to come on board

[themessenger]

if promotion and relegation, and playing for points are considered unnecessary for a player's development - why do clubs hold trials?

[DUKE BLUE]

Matty 2323

I understand what you are saying, especially about kids playing at their optimum level.

However unfortunately senior teams are not able to attract decent crowds no matter how good their team is or what league they are in.

Why is it that many people don’t go to watch? I believe it is because there is far too much club hopping done by players, senior and junior, and the clubs are not building a club culture.

As bad as it seems in the short term to be in the State League for juniors to start with, and the fact that you will lose some players, after a year or two it will all settle down and the kids that come to your club will probably stay for a long time and become club people.

Club people will always follow one club, through thick and thin, and when you eventually gain promotion you will be a club that will be sustainable and not a club that only survives because of large benefactors and false loyalty.

PS, that tackle your centre back did on my son last week was shocking, that kid needs a lot of developing.

Matty2323

The talented boy missed Tuesdays Raiders session and also his STIC training session, the other talented boy who we carried off on Sunday is on crutches & will miss 2 weeks of football. Hard at the ball & tackling .....is this something we should be teaching 11yo?

I guess this is a sign of things to come for coaches chasing "tables & points".

I can hear passion in your words and also the theme of developing players, one would consider that playing out from the back with combination passing through the 3 lines with good risk taking in all areas is what is expected of us following the FAA curriculum, i suspect it is a snap shot ...2 games played between clubs but this is not what i experienced with your coaching.

The "developing" Northern Zone standard could be off set if you organised additional games with clubs from different zones...Comets, Birkalla, Metro Stars & West Adelaide are a few who would give you "clean" competitive games.....Nothing short of educational from our experiences......The long bombs from the playford keeper to a fast kid past the halfway line on Sunday just gone is nothing short of chasing a result?

.....either way your desire for relegation, points with tables may be a reflection on what your coaching philosophy is? Happy to be proven wrong though....All the best for the remainder of 2013 & we'll catch up soon.

The current system provides 18 competitive games...I am happy to play 30+ games......bring on the new system.

AJ

[themessenger]

Matty 2323

I understand what you are saying, especially about kids playing at their optimum level.

However unfortunately senior teams are not able to attract decent crowds no matter how good their team is or what league they are in.

Why is it that many people don’t go to watch? I believe it is because there is far too much club hopping done by players, senior and junior, and the clubs are not building a club culture.

As bad as it seems in the short term to be in the State League for juniors to start with, and the fact that you will lose some players, after a year or two it will all settle down and the kids that come to your club will probably stay for a long time and become club people.

Club people will always follow one club, through thick and thin, and when you eventually gain promotion you will be a club that will be sustainable and not a club that only survives because of large benefactors and false loyalty.

PS, that tackle your centre back did on my son last week was shocking, that kid needs a lot of developing.

Matty2323

The talented boy missed Tuesdays Raiders session and also his STIC training session, the other talented boy who we carried off on Sunday is on crutches & will miss 2 weeks of football. Hard at the ball & tackling .....is this something we should be teaching 11yo?

I guess this is a sign of things to come for coaches chasing "tables & points".

I can hear passion in your words and also the theme of developing players, one would consider that playing out from the back with combination passing through the 3 lines with good risk taking in all areas is what is expected of us following the FAA curriculum, i suspect it is a snap shot ...2 games played between clubs but this is not what i experienced with your coaching.

The "developing" Northern Zone standard could be off set if you organised additional games with clubs from different zones...Comets, Birkalla, Metro Stars & West Adelaide are a few who would give you "clean" competitive games.....Nothing short of educational from our experiences......The long bombs from the playford keeper to a fast kid past the halfway line on Sunday just gone is nothing short of chasing a result?

.....either way your desire for relegation, points with tables may be a reflection on what your coaching philosophy is? Happy to be proven wrong though....All the best for the remainder of 2013 & we'll catch up soon.

The current system provides 18 competitive games...I am happy to play 30+ games......bring on the new system.

AJ

and you are suggesting Raiders junior Coaches are not "chasing a result" and not "interested in points or tables"?

I repeat my earlier question - if promotion and relegation and playing for points are considered unnecessary for a player's development - why do clubs, including Raiders, hold trials?

[matty2323]

Matty 2323

I understand what you are saying, especially about kids playing at their optimum level.

However unfortunately senior teams are not able to attract decent crowds no matter how good their team is or what league they are in.

Why is it that many people don’t go to watch? I believe it is because there is far too much club hopping done by players, senior and junior, and the clubs are not building a club culture.

As bad as it seems in the short term to be in the State League for juniors to start with, and the fact that you will lose some players, after a year or two it will all settle down and the kids that come to your club will probably stay for a long time and become club people.

Club people will always follow one club, through thick and thin, and when you eventually gain promotion you will be a club that will be sustainable and not a club that only survives because of large benefactors and false loyalty.

PS, that tackle your centre back did on my son last week was shocking, that kid needs a lot of developing.

Matty2323

The talented boy missed Tuesdays Raiders session and also his STIC training session, the other talented boy who we carried off on Sunday is on crutches & will miss 2 weeks of football. Hard at the ball & tackling .....is this something we should be teaching 11yo?

I guess this is a sign of things to come for coaches chasing "tables & points".

I can hear passion in your words and also the theme of developing players, one would consider that playing out from the back with combination passing through the 3 lines with good risk taking in all areas is what is expected of us following the FAA curriculum, i suspect it is a snap shot ...2 games played between clubs but this is not what i experienced with your coaching.

The "developing" Northern Zone standard could be off set if you organised additional games with clubs from different zones...Comets, Birkalla, Metro Stars & West Adelaide are a few who would give you "clean" competitive games.....Nothing short of educational from our experiences......The long bombs from the playford keeper to a fast kid past the halfway line on Sunday just gone is nothing short of chasing a result?

.....either way your desire for relegation, points with tables may be a reflection on what your coaching philosophy is? Happy to be proven wrong though....All the best for the remainder of 2013 & we'll catch up soon.

The current system provides 18 competitive games...I am happy to play 30+ games......bring on the new system.

AJ

Please dont insult my coaching methods. Of my squad, only 3 are not from E&D last year. When a game gets competitive, these kids resort to old habits and that can involve trying to play the long ball over the top. Not all of us are blessed with 5 years of SSG's. Its why i view Raiders as the bench mark. Technical development from 6-7. They already know the basics.. a lot of mine are raw. And this means when under pressure they dont trust something they've only done for 8 months, and instead resort to something they've done for 6-8 years. Majority of my kids have been playing up their entire life to seek competition, and one thing you get with kids playing up is a physical approach.

I find it laughable that you think we employ "rough" tactics. Shoulder to shoulder and physical strength are apart of the game. As for late challenges, i have explained this. ANY kid in my team does something malicious and they're dealt with accordingly by us as coaches, and as a club in general. Watch football on TV, if you want to be a small, agile, skillful player, you're sometimes going to be too fast for defenders. When they make legitimate attempts at the ball but accidentally catch the player, the referee awards a free kick. This happened both times we played, and i actually discussed it earlier in this thread. My players weren't used to playing at that intensity, and we're "slow" on several occasions. But to insinuate we were aiming to hurt opposition players to change the outcome is wrong.

I am sorry for the injuries sustained to the players, football is a physical game and these things happen. The over reaction from the parents to my player could also be questioned. He stood next to the lad and put his hand on him to see if he was ok. The verbal wasn't necessary. Kids are out there to learn, they make mistakes, and that's not just looking pretty on the ball and occasionally giving it away, thats also miss timing tackles.

As for your suggestion, every bye we have had we have arranged a friendly with a team from Yellow zone. The most physical game we encountered was a Metro Stars game. No points involved. So you cant accuse them of "chasing the points"... instead they were "chasing the ball" and showing a desire to win it back as quick as possible when they lost it. Judging by the reaction of many of your parents in both games we have player, physical contact is not allowed in our sport. Fortunately, the players who make it at any level normally have a combination of strength, speed and skill.

[develop]

Not like the FFSA to NOT consult with anyone.

Think about it a bit harder:
1 Pre-season starting in Nov/Dec - OHS issues, competing with cricket, summer sports
2 Grounds - dual purpose, cricket summer v soccer winter
3 30 game season - how many pitches can take that
4 Club coaches/volunteers - 10/11 month season, work commitments, time needed at club, wages, power bills
5 Losing games = losing players, cancelling games, teams dropping out
6 Attracting players - higher fees in PL v AFL fees, less attractive in State league
7 Increasing fees - more games, longer season = more junior fees for cash strapped parents

Please add to the list and maybe we can use them to challenge this proposal

[DUKE BLUE]

Matty 2323

I understand what you are saying, especially about kids playing at their optimum level.

However unfortunately senior teams are not able to attract decent crowds no matter how good their team is or what league they are in.

Why is it that many people don’t go to watch? I believe it is because there is far too much club hopping done by players, senior and junior, and the clubs are not building a club culture.

As bad as it seems in the short term to be in the State League for juniors to start with, and the fact that you will lose some players, after a year or two it will all settle down and the kids that come to your club will probably stay for a long time and become club people.

Club people will always follow one club, through thick and thin, and when you eventually gain promotion you will be a club that will be sustainable and not a club that only survives because of large benefactors and false loyalty.

PS, that tackle your centre back did on my son last week was shocking, that kid needs a lot of developing.

Matty2323

The talented boy missed Tuesdays Raiders session and also his STIC training session, the other talented boy who we carried off on Sunday is on crutches & will miss 2 weeks of football. Hard at the ball & tackling .....is this something we should be teaching 11yo?

I guess this is a sign of things to come for coaches chasing "tables & points".

I can hear passion in your words and also the theme of developing players, one would consider that playing out from the back with combination passing through the 3 lines with good risk taking in all areas is what is expected of us following the FAA curriculum, i suspect it is a snap shot ...2 games played between clubs but this is not what i experienced with your coaching.

The "developing" Northern Zone standard could be off set if you organised additional games with clubs from different zones...Comets, Birkalla, Metro Stars & West Adelaide are a few who would give you "clean" competitive games.....Nothing short of educational from our experiences......The long bombs from the playford keeper to a fast kid past the halfway line on Sunday just gone is nothing short of chasing a result?

.....either way your desire for relegation, points with tables may be a reflection on what your coaching philosophy is? Happy to be proven wrong though....All the best for the remainder of 2013 & we'll catch up soon.

The current system provides 18 competitive games...I am happy to play 30+ games......bring on the new system.

AJ

Please dont insult my coaching methods. Of my squad, only 3 are not from E&D last year. When a game gets competitive, these kids resort to old habits and that can involve trying to play the long ball over the top. Not all of us are blessed with 5 years of SSG's. Its why i view Raiders as the bench mark. Technical development from 6-7. They already know the basics.. a lot of mine are raw. And this means when under pressure they dont trust something they've only done for 8 months, and instead resort to something they've done for 6-8 years. Majority of my kids have been playing up their entire life to seek competition, and one thing you get with kids playing up is a physical approach.

I find it laughable that you think we employ "rough" tactics. Shoulder to shoulder and physical strength are apart of the game. As for late challenges, i have explained this. ANY kid in my team does something malicious and they're dealt with accordingly by us as coaches, and as a club in general. Watch football on TV, if you want to be a small, agile, skillful player, you're sometimes going to be too fast for defenders. When they make legitimate attempts at the ball but accidentally catch the player, the referee awards a free kick. This happened both times we played, and i actually discussed it earlier in this thread. My players weren't used to playing at that intensity, and we're "slow" on several occasions. But to insinuate we were aiming to hurt opposition players to change the outcome is wrong.

I am sorry for the injuries sustained to the players, football is a physical game and these things happen. The over reaction from the parents to my player could also be questioned. He stood next to the lad and put his hand on him to see if he was ok. The verbal wasn't necessary. Kids are out there to learn, they make mistakes, and that's not just looking pretty on the ball and occasionally giving it away, thats also miss timing tackles.

As for your suggestion, every bye we have had we have arranged a friendly with a team from Yellow zone. The most physical game we encountered was a Metro Stars game. No points involved. So you cant accuse them of "chasing the points"... instead they were "chasing the ball" and showing a desire to win it back as quick as possible when they lost it. Judging by the reaction of many of your parents in both games we have player, physical contact is not allowed in our sport. Fortunately, the players who make it at any level normally have a combination of strength, speed and skill.[/

Like I said before ....."snap shot"......2 games......120 minutes .....13 free kicks .....3 yellow cards.

If a kid damages a player would it not be suitable to speak to him, they can come off & on throughout the game...the teacher...the game.

The parents are not accustomed to seeing kids being carried off the pitch...when it is your own kid you'll understand. But if strength is a key aspect of coaching then I pity the development in South Australia......strength may be part of the game but tackling from behind is not.

11yo kids...not professionals.

[DUKE BLUE]

Matty 2323

I understand what you are saying, especially about kids playing at their optimum level.

However unfortunately senior teams are not able to attract decent crowds no matter how good their team is or what league they are in.

Why is it that many people don’t go to watch? I believe it is because there is far too much club hopping done by players, senior and junior, and the clubs are not building a club culture.

As bad as it seems in the short term to be in the State League for juniors to start with, and the fact that you will lose some players, after a year or two it will all settle down and the kids that come to your club will probably stay for a long time and become club people.

Club people will always follow one club, through thick and thin, and when you eventually gain promotion you will be a club that will be sustainable and not a club that only survives because of large benefactors and false loyalty.

PS, that tackle your centre back did on my son last week was shocking, that kid needs a lot of developing.

Matty2323

The talented boy missed Tuesdays Raiders session and also his STIC training session, the other talented boy who we carried off on Sunday is on crutches & will miss 2 weeks of football. Hard at the ball & tackling .....is this something we should be teaching 11yo?

I guess this is a sign of things to come for coaches chasing "tables & points".

I can hear passion in your words and also the theme of developing players, one would consider that playing out from the back with combination passing through the 3 lines with good risk taking in all areas is what is expected of us following the FAA curriculum, i suspect it is a snap shot ...2 games played between clubs but this is not what i experienced with your coaching.

The "developing" Northern Zone standard could be off set if you organised additional games with clubs from different zones...Comets, Birkalla, Metro Stars & West Adelaide are a few who would give you "clean" competitive games.....Nothing short of educational from our experiences......The long bombs from the playford keeper to a fast kid past the halfway line on Sunday just gone is nothing short of chasing a result?

.....either way your desire for relegation, points with tables may be a reflection on what your coaching philosophy is? Happy to be proven wrong though....All the best for the remainder of 2013 & we'll catch up soon.

The current system provides 18 competitive games...I am happy to play 30+ games......bring on the new system.

AJ

and you are suggesting Raiders junior Coaches are not "chasing a result" and not "interested in points or tables"?

I repeat my earlier question - if promotion and relegation and playing for points are considered unnecessary for a player's development - why do clubs, including Raiders, hold trials?

To provide opportunity for young footballers to experience a high level of coaching and effectively provide a pathway to an elite football program.

Raiders will play a brand of football that will enable a result in a competition provided by FFSA....win/loss or draw the kids learn from the game...the teacher...the coaches they just fill the gaps for development.

[themessenger]

Matty2323

The talented boy missed Tuesdays Raiders session and also his STIC training session, the other talented boy who we carried off on Sunday is on crutches & will miss 2 weeks of football. Hard at the ball & tackling .....is this something we should be teaching 11yo?

I guess this is a sign of things to come for coaches chasing "tables & points".

I can hear passion in your words and also the theme of developing players, one would consider that playing out from the back with combination passing through the 3 lines with good risk taking in all areas is what is expected of us following the FAA curriculum, i suspect it is a snap shot ...2 games played between clubs but this is not what i experienced with your coaching.

The "developing" Northern Zone standard could be off set if you organised additional games with clubs from different zones...Comets, Birkalla, Metro Stars & West Adelaide are a few who would give you "clean" competitive games.....Nothing short of educational from our experiences......The long bombs from the playford keeper to a fast kid past the halfway line on Sunday just gone is nothing short of chasing a result?

.....either way your desire for relegation, points with tables may be a reflection on what your coaching philosophy is? Happy to be proven wrong though....All the best for the remainder of 2013 & we'll catch up soon.

The current system provides 18 competitive games...I am happy to play 30+ games......bring on the new system.

AJ[/quote]


and you are suggesting Raiders junior Coaches are not "chasing a result" and not "interested in points or tables"?

I repeat my earlier question - if promotion and relegation and playing for points are considered unnecessary for a player's development - why do clubs, including Raiders, hold trials?[/quote]



To provide opportunity for young footballers to experience a high level of coaching and effectively provide a pathway to an elite football program.

Raiders will play a brand of football that will enable a result in a competition provided by FFSA....win/loss or draw the kids learn from the game...the teacher...the coaches they just fill the gaps for development.[/quote]




are you referring to the FFSA's elite football program which is run by Richie Alagich, who is also a Raiders coach?

[matty2323]

Like I said before ....."snap shot"......2 games......120 minutes .....13 free kicks .....3 yellow cards.

If a kid damages a player would it not be suitable to speak to him, they can come off & on throughout the game...the teacher...the game.

The parents are not accustomed to seeing kids being carried off the pitch...when it is your own kid you'll understand. But if strength is a key aspect of coaching then I pity the development in South Australia......strength may be part of the game but tackling from behind is not.

11yo kids...not professionals.

a kid needs information on the spot about a miss timed challenge? He knew he had committed a foul, the referee paid a free kick and spoke to him. I do not understand what more needs to be done? As for a tackle from behind, that's debatable, the young lad went past him with superior skill, he hung a leg and caught him. Accidents do happen on football pitches.

You believe strength is not important? shielding a ball, holding off opponents in tight areas. Im not talking about who can bench press more at 12 years old. But if players are chasing the same ball, shoulder to shoulder, then majority of the time at this age the smaller lad losses out. Its not foul or rough play, they're fighting for the same piece of grass surrounding the ball. protect the ball, protect the space and turn into it.. just because a smaller lad is knocked over dosen't mean the bigger lad is a bully.

You have an extremely good group of lads, with tremendous technical ability. But dont be naive, they need to get used to physical contact. Im not talking about the type of physical contact that involves getting their legs chopped, but players leaning on each other for a ball is allowed in our game.

Strength is a key component of the game world wide. Messi, Ronaldo.. two of the strongest players in the world. The ability to ride tackles, beat opponents etc.. thats agility, strength, pace and skill. As for getting back on topic, what do you think about these rules? You've just played a season in a league consisting of all SL clubs.. do you believe playing in the A division is important?

[themessenger]

Not like the FFSA to NOT consult with anyone.

Think about it a bit harder:
1 Pre-season starting in Nov/Dec - OHS issues, competing with cricket, summer sports
2 Grounds - dual purpose, cricket summer v soccer winter
3 30 game season - how many pitches can take that
4 Club coaches/volunteers - 10/11 month season, work commitments, time needed at club, wages, power bills
5 Losing games = losing players, cancelling games, teams dropping out
6 Attracting players - higher fees in PL v AFL fees, less attractive in State league
7 Increasing fees - more games, longer season = more junior fees for cash strapped parents

Please add to the list and maybe we can use them to challenge this proposal

Question - does FFSA actually state anywhere in their discussion paper that there will be 26-30 rounds for the juniors, as per the Seniors competition?

For the reasons outlined above, it will be virtually impossible for any FFSA club to support anywhere near that number of games for Juniors and Seniors in one season. Unless of course they are planning to reduce some of the burden on club pitches by playing more games at Burton.

[fossil]

anyone looking back at the early SSG how many players used to do the pack run and crash to chase the ball too kick a goal before they got the information and processed how they could stay off and allow play 10 months or more than 2 years so asking kids to learn new processes at 12 when they have had 5+ years doing the opposite is not going to be easy and things will go wrong.

ask how many kids lift their feet throwing a ball back into play and everyone can see the challenge with young players clearly
is a goal keeper great or brave for making a solid save and putting his body on the line?
if kids have several siblings some older and are used to being pushed around are they worse for doing the same thing for attempting to win the ball on field to a player who is not?

if we take away the chances of playing against the best then the sport is the worse off

[fossil]

Not like the FFSA to NOT consult with anyone.

Think about it a bit harder:
1 Pre-season starting in Nov/Dec - OHS issues, competing with cricket, summer sports
2 Grounds - dual purpose, cricket summer v soccer winter
3 30 game season - how many pitches can take that
4 Club coaches/volunteers - 10/11 month season, work commitments, time needed at club, wages, power bills
5 Losing games = losing players, cancelling games, teams dropping out
6 Attracting players - higher fees in PL v AFL fees, less attractive in State league
7 Increasing fees - more games, longer season = more junior fees for cash strapped parents

Please add to the list and maybe we can use them to challenge this proposal

Question - does FFSA actually state anywhere in their discussion paper that there will be 26-30 rounds for the juniors, as per the Seniors competition?

For the reasons outlined above, it will be virtually impossible for any FFSA club to support anywhere near that number of games for Juniors and Seniors in one season. Unless of course they are planning to reduce some of the burden on club pitches by playing more games at Burton.

has anyone thought of what will happen to the kids when growth sperts and possible injuries, general soreness occur and how the teams will function with only 16 players total and 5 missing?

[fossil]

anyone think the player exodus will now occur earlier and if not how many PL clubs will be able to keep their current juniors going into seniors in 5 years time when their current seniors are keeping them from being relegated, after all a club will not be able to keep 60 players for 1st team or will the new structure mean the 1st team is made up of 18-20 year olds rolled out after 3 years of being a senior player?

where will the clubs 200 + game player come from if they have to be pushed out early

[DUKE BLUE]

Matty2323

The talented boy missed Tuesdays Raiders session and also his STIC training session, the other talented boy who we carried off on Sunday is on crutches & will miss 2 weeks of football. Hard at the ball & tackling .....is this something we should be teaching 11yo?

I guess this is a sign of things to come for coaches chasing "tables & points".

I can hear passion in your words and also the theme of developing players, one would consider that playing out from the back with combination passing through the 3 lines with good risk taking in all areas is what is expected of us following the FAA curriculum, i suspect it is a snap shot ...2 games played between clubs but this is not what i experienced with your coaching.

The "developing" Northern Zone standard could be off set if you organised additional games with clubs from different zones...Comets, Birkalla, Metro Stars & West Adelaide are a few who would give you "clean" competitive games.....Nothing short of educational from our experiences......The long bombs from the playford keeper to a fast kid past the halfway line on Sunday just gone is nothing short of chasing a result?

.....either way your desire for relegation, points with tables may be a reflection on what your coaching philosophy is? Happy to be proven wrong though....All the best for the remainder of 2013 & we'll catch up soon.

The current system provides 18 competitive games...I am happy to play 30+ games......bring on the new system.

AJ

and you are suggesting Raiders junior Coaches are not "chasing a result" and not "interested in points or tables"?

I repeat my earlier question - if promotion and relegation and playing for points are considered unnecessary for a player's development - why do clubs, including Raiders, hold trials?[/quote]



To provide opportunity for young footballers to experience a high level of coaching and effectively provide a pathway to an elite football program.

Raiders will play a brand of football that will enable a result in a competition provided by FFSA....win/loss or draw the kids learn from the game...the teacher...the coaches they just fill the gaps for development.[/quote]




are you referring to the FFSA's elite football program which is run by Richie Alagich, who is also a Raiders coach?[/quote]

FFSA/FFA & or A-League...What this country has to offer.
There are a number of good coaches out there...
Richie does not coach at Raiders he has a wealth of football knowledge that you can draw from him if you ask & he has time....he may even be able to view one of your sessions if you ask him.
Not sure if you are a coach?

[DUKE BLUE]

Like I said before ....."snap shot"......2 games......120 minutes .....13 free kicks .....3 yellow cards.

If a kid damages a player would it not be suitable to speak to him, they can come off & on throughout the game...the teacher...the game.

The parents are not accustomed to seeing kids being carried off the pitch...when it is your own kid you'll understand. But if strength is a key aspect of coaching then I pity the development in South Australia......strength may be part of the game but tackling from behind is not.

11yo kids...not professionals.

a kid needs information on the spot about a miss timed challenge? He knew he had committed a foul, the referee paid a free kick and spoke to him. I do not understand what more needs to be done? As for a tackle from behind, that's debatable, the young lad went past him with superior skill, he hung a leg and caught him. Accidents do happen on football pitches.

You believe strength is not important? shielding a ball, holding off opponents in tight areas. Im not talking about who can bench press more at 12 years old. But if players are chasing the same ball, shoulder to shoulder, then majority of the time at this age the smaller lad losses out. Its not foul or rough play, they're fighting for the same piece of grass surrounding the ball. protect the ball, protect the space and turn into it.. just because a smaller lad is knocked over dosen't mean the bigger lad is a bully.

You have an extremely good group of lads, with tremendous technical ability. But dont be naive, they need to get used to physical contact. Im not talking about the type of physical contact that involves getting their legs chopped, but players leaning on each other for a ball is allowed in our game.

Strength is a key component of the game world wide. Messi, Ronaldo.. two of the strongest players in the world. The ability to ride tackles, beat opponents etc.. thats agility, strength, pace and skill. As for getting back on topic, what do you think about these rules? You've just played a season in a league consisting of all SL clubs.. do you believe playing in the A division is important?

Did i say strength was not important? It is part of the game but there are far more things that can be taught for these kids at this age.
I was 5m from the incident you were on the far side of the pitch, the referee provided a free kick and did not communicate the dangers of this sort of tackle....he was a Raiders referee.

Empathise or reverse the role of the incident & let me know how you would have handled this type of incident?

I have hijacked the original topic so we can discuss under a differnt topic in junior football.....I do not disagree that the better kids need to be playing amongst eachother to be challenged... I came on here recommending more games but also contributing to your detail with respect to "developing" players....I did not witness in the 2 games we have played what has been asked of us as coaches from the FFA. But like you said you have some raw talent that needs to be nurtured.

[GaylyColouredStumps]

and I thought ballet mums were bad...

[Željko Jurin]

What's with the essay long discussions .... Lets stick to one liners pls
And no personal attacks, we're all learning and trying our best, what some might believe is right, others might not .... it's how we perceive things, but who is right and wrong, only time will tell

themessenger, why bring RA into this ? He's a Raiders parent, and the poor bloke can't even watch his kids train during the week because of his commitments that are not at Raiders, so I'm not sure what team you think he coaches ?
Or does driving your kid to his game on Sunday classify all parents as coaches ? That probably sounds about right actually ....

And if he was one of our coaches, why is he doing sessions at your club, AC, Hills, C'town, Birkalla, South Adl etc, etc, etc, and any other club that asks him ?

[Željko Jurin]

Now back to the discussion, Playford have 1 coach represented here, Modbury a couple of people/committee? , any other State league clubs want their voice heard, or are they happy with the proposal ?