New Junior Structure 2014

[Željko Jurin]

Every kid that has left me for Raiders has shook my hand, said i was a good coach but they feel they need to be playing in the top division for their development.

Who ??

Playford kids at Raiders that I know of ...

u12s ... 0
u13As ... 1
u14As ... 2
u15Bs ... I'm assuming 0, we are in the B's
u16As ... I'm assuming 0, as your 16s are also A's

In fact, your 16s have 3 ex Raiders players, and you have one in your u12 team = 4 !!

[matty2323]

1/ we have all those people at our club. But we dont have the community a club like Raiders have.

2/ I go back to when i was a junior, Playford, Para Hills and Modbury were the top 3 in almost every age group. The senior teams were doing well, clubs were well financed and E&D was producing copious amounts of talent. Then, inexplicably, all 3 clubs have been on a downward slope.

2 interesting points .....

1/ Our 'community', I'm assuming you mean Croatian community ? ..... I can tell you right now, we have <10% kids with Croat heritage.

2/ This is the real question you need to ask .... why ?? The 'fork in the road' I said before ....

By "community" Im talking about the footballing culture that you associate with Raiders. Croatian club, passionate footballing community, regardless of their heritage. As for the 2nd point, thats easy, finances. When Playford were on top they were privately funded by the Valicarri's (please excuse the spelling). Heavy investment in all facets of the clubs. Once they moved in the club had no money, and the new generation simply moved on. I was a Playford junior, played every year there. Made my debut for the seniors at 16 years old. The club got relegated, Metro came knocking and i moved there for 2 seasons where i won 5 trophies. Im Playford through and through, but i also knew that if i wanted to get a crack at the A-League (which every kid with ambition wants) i had to be playing in the top division against the best teams as it was the closest thing you go to A-League standard. That hasn't changed, look at Playford first team from last year - Cartwright, Pritchard, Macolino, M.DeBono, Crowley, Elekwachi, Johnson, (myself at the start) all moved on with the league restructure to play higher level football.

with the points system, kids will now move earlier so they wont be a points burden on our club. I want change, i want us to improve our junior set up, but i think this is too one-sided and only benefits PL clubs.

[matty2323]

Matty 2323

I understand what you are saying, especially about kids playing at their optimum level.

However unfortunately senior teams are not able to attract decent crowds no matter how good their team is or what league they are in.

Why is it that many people don’t go to watch? I believe it is because there is far too much club hopping done by players, senior and junior, and the clubs are not building a club culture.

As bad as it seems in the short term to be in the State League for juniors to start with, and the fact that you will lose some players, after a year or two it will all settle down and the kids that come to your club will probably stay for a long time and become club people.

Club people will always follow one club, through thick and thin, and when you eventually gain promotion you will be a club that will be sustainable and not a club that only survives because of large benefactors and false loyalty.

PS, that tackle your centre back did on my son last week was shocking, that kid needs a lot of developing.

shocking tackle, your boy said he was ok and the end of the game thank fully. It wasn't malicious, it was late. and this is key to what im trying to say. The lad who made the challenge is used to loping around and dominating. All of a sudden he's come up against excellent talent who are quick, agile and skillful. He hangs a leg and cleans the player up. Why? because he's not used to playing at that speed, that intensity and making decisions that quickly. Take that chance for him to develop and get used to playing teams like Raiders every week, and he's going to remain like that.

[matty2323]

Every kid that has left me for Raiders has shook my hand, said i was a good coach but they feel they need to be playing in the top division for their development.

Who ??

Playford kids at Raiders that I know of ...

u12s ... 0
u13As ... 1
u14As ... 2
u15Bs ... I'm assuming 0, we are in the B's
u16As ... I'm assuming 0, as your 16s are also A's

In fact, your 16s have 3 ex Raiders players, and you have one in your u12 team = 4 !!

players i have coached? Im not sure i can mention names on here? But your 16's has 4 alone, and those 3 ex raiders players in the 16's at playford were in my 14's, left for raiders in the 15's when we got relegated, then came back when we got promoted back to the A division!! (who says A division dosen't mean anything to kids).

[Raich Carter]

but i'm sure you have plenty of ex E&D boys ZJ....i know of a few

Did I say we didnt ?

All the good work that E&D do ..... does that mean if they play 1 or 2 years at E&D, and 5-6 at Raiders, they are good players because of E&D ?

And why do they come to us (as you say they do), and not all the other Northen FFSA clubs, which would then make those clubs also stronger ?

It's probably a bit different now but until SSG were introduced the E&D had U6-U8 modified and then 9-U11 so if the coaching was good and they were being taught good technique then yes it is because of E&D with the FFSA clubs also contributing to their development.

[Željko Jurin]

Every kid that has left me for Raiders has shook my hand, said i was a good coach but they feel they need to be playing in the top division for their development.

Who ??

Playford kids at Raiders that I know of ...

u12s ... 0
u13As ... 1
u14As ... 2
u15Bs ... I'm assuming 0, we are in the B's
u16As ... I'm assuming 0, as your 16s are also A's

In fact, your 16s have 3 ex Raiders players, and you have one in your u12 team = 4 !!

players i have coached? Im not sure i can mention names on here? But your 16's has 4 alone, and those 3 ex raiders players in the 16's at playford were in my 14's, left for raiders in the 15's when we got relegated, then came back when we got promoted back to the A division!! (who says A division dosen't mean anything to kids).

No names needed ...

You and I both know it was the travelling time, and thats why they went back to Playford, closer to home for the parents

Our current 16s have 4 (really ??)
Did they come this year or last ?
If this year, then why leave as you are also in A's ?
If last, then why didnt they also go back with the other 3 ? (I dont believe we took in 7 from Playford last year)

[fossil]

junior points system needs to be brought in with this rule change, that will stop the hoppers and give the clubs who develop players too stay and become stronger and not give the PL unlimited supply of the top 10% of good players which they all get now.
I remember hearing raiders having over 120 players for u/19 trials most 16-18 yr olds and I'm sure all the players were happy at their own clubs but they all wanted to be in the highest level to contest against a high level. (how many of your 17's you kept)

the amatures and the other codes will be the only winners if players can't push against the best then playing with their mates for fun will do.

big clubs will get bigger and the rest will fold or be close too it and then when PL clubs have so many players at trials and not knowing who too pick/keep and players having no chance at playing the better teams due to senior status they will leave.

[Željko Jurin]

120 players at our u19s trials ????

[matty2323]

No names needed ...

You and I both know it was the travelling time, and thats why they went back to Playford, closer to home for the parents

Our current 16s have 4 (really ??)
Did they come this year or last ?
If this year, then why leave as you are also in A's ?
If last, then why didnt they also go back with the other 3 ? (I dont believe we took in 7 from Playford last year)

yes, much closer to home for the young lad and he seems to be enjoying himself. Classy little player for his age.

14s relegated was 2011, at the end of that season i believe you got 5. 3 returned end of 2012 when we returned to the A division. I passed that squad on, and took control of the 12's. 2 then left for Raiders to seek out better coaching. so yes, i believe 4. winger, central midfield, striker(or winger) and a defender. Infact, they were playing at the same time as us on the weekend so i caught up with a few of them.

[Željko Jurin]

2 then left for Raiders to seek out better coaching.

Aha .... as both teams were in A div

[Nova]

Kids should not play for points if we are really serious about developing!
These debates about structures, A's & B's and club hopping really astound me

[matty2323]

junior points system needs to be brought in with this rule change, that will stop the hoppers and give the clubs who develop players too stay and become stronger and not give the PL unlimited supply of the top 10% of good players which they all get now.
I remember hearing raiders having over 120 players for u/19 trials most 16-18 yr olds and I'm sure all the players were happy at their own clubs but they all wanted to be in the highest level to contest against a high level. (how many of your 17's you kept)

the amatures and the other codes will be the only winners if players can't push against the best then playing with their mates for fun will do.

big clubs will get bigger and the rest will fold or be close too it and then when PL clubs have so many players at trials and not knowing who too pick/keep and players having no chance at playing the better teams due to senior status they will leave.

may have mistaken those tryouts with the reserves, only Micky Doyle Snr has that kind of pulling power! haha. But i agree with the rest of the competition getting stronger while the others are left to pick up the scraps.

My major concern.. PL clubs can now bump up fees knowing they're in high demand cause there kids automatically get to play A division. Also means the juniors are solely there to fund seniors now. You pay these fees, we get to buy good players to keep us in the premier league and your kid gets to play A division...

[Željko Jurin]

Parents in SA have got it VERY good when it comes to club fees .... lucky we dont live in Vic or NSW

[matty2323]

Kids should not play for points if we are really serious about developing!
These debates about structures, A's & B's and club hopping really astound me

agreed about the points, but what it does do is let kids play at their appropriate level. a kid may have decided to start playing football at 13. He's not going to be technically advanced as a kid who's been playing since he was 4 (theoretically). Hence the divisions. The "best" play the "best" at their age group, and so on. Without these divisions and balancing, you get teams like in my division having played 18, lost 18 with goals against at nearly 200... whats that do for their development? they quit the game.

[fossil]

ZJ how quick to dismiss do your checks with junior fellow Brenton (not sure if coach was a guy named paul but there was 2 coaches of them doing the trails) they cut them so quickly that if they wern't the right size, shape, age etc they had no chance there was just too many.

it was when you had the upstairs pitch going and before kossie if that helps jog your memory.

[Željko Jurin]

Back in the 'good ol' days', what FFSA are proposing is how it was done

Dont know when it all changed, but it worked back then and will work now

Like harry said, it will take a couple of years for it all to settle down and fall into place, but atleast there will be more 'loyalty' shown to clubs

Yes, 'some' kids from the only TWO relegated PL clubs each year might club hop, but it should be ALOT less then what happens now in EVERY age group each year

[Nova]

Kids should not play for points if we are really serious about developing!
These debates about structures, A's & B's and club hopping really astound me

agreed about the points, but what it does do is let kids play at their appropriate level. a kid may have decided to start playing football at 13. He's not going to be technically advanced as a kid who's been playing since he was 4 (theoretically). Hence the divisions. The "best" play the "best" at their age group, and so on. Without these divisions and balancing, you get teams like in my division having played 18, lost 18 with goals against at nearly 200... whats that do for their development? they quit the game.

I think that affects parents and coaches more than kids

[Željko Jurin]

ZJ how quick to dismiss do your checks with junior fellow Brenton (not sure if coach was a guy named paul but there was 2 coaches of them doing the trails) they cut them so quickly that if they wern't the right size, shape, age etc they had no chance there was just too many.

it was when you had the upstairs pitch going and before kossie if that helps jog your memory.

I know the year you are talking about with the names you've given .... but 120 for u19s ??

If that really happened, I think we would have taken a photo, enlarged it, gold plated it and mounted it !!

[GaylyColouredStumps]

junior points system needs to be brought in with this rule change, that will stop the hoppers and give the clubs who develop players too stay and become stronger and not give the PL unlimited supply of the top 10% of good players which they all get now.
I remember hearing raiders having over 120 players for u/19 trials most 16-18 yr olds and I'm sure all the players were happy at their own clubs but they all wanted to be in the highest level to contest against a high level. (how many of your 17's you kept)

the amatures and the other codes will be the only winners if players can't push against the best then playing with their mates for fun will do.

big clubs will get bigger and the rest will fold or be close too it and then when PL clubs have so many players at trials and not knowing who too pick/keep and players having no chance at playing the better teams due to senior status they will leave.

may have mistaken those tryouts with the reserves, only Micky Doyle Snr has that kind of pulling power! haha. But i agree with the rest of the competition getting stronger while the others are left to pick up the scraps.

My major concern.. PL clubs can now bump up fees knowing they're in high demand cause there kids automatically get to play A division. Also means the juniors are solely there to fund seniors now. You pay these fees, we get to buy good players to keep us in the premier league and your kid gets to play A division...

Raiders had over 100 kids trialling for U19/Reserves combined a few years back (those numbers have fallen back recently).

However, this had absolutely no reflection on our ladder position, just have a look at the ladders from the last 5 years.

[matty2323]

Back in the 'good ol' days', what FFSA are proposing is how it was done

Dont know when it all changed, but it worked back then and will work now

Like harry said, it will take a couple of years for it all to settle down and fall into place, but atleast there will be more 'loyalty' shown to clubs

Yes, 'some' kids from the only TWO relegated PL clubs each year might club hop, but it should be ALOT less then what happens now in EVERY age group each year

lets be honest here... does club hopping at junior levels really matter? Take Pritchard for example, who career at Playford, still left to seek out PL football. It does not matter where kids play their junior football, if they're not getting senior football when they think they're ready for it, they will club hop!. Its said, but its true. Its what happens. The good talent from state league clubs that have been there through out their juniors will jump ship for a top level club. They only come back when they dont get game time. This whole "loyalty" thing rarely exists in football because no matter how loyal you're, you still aren't happy if you dont get game time. Juniors is the same.. yes it will stop club hoping, but thats only good for the clubs in the top level. They have first pick. Yep we will take Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi etc etc and the state league.. here, have Titus Bramble.

[Željko Jurin]

lets be honest here... does club hopping at junior levels really matter?

So whats our discussion been about for the last 4 hours then ??

[matty2323]

Kids should not play for points if we are really serious about developing!
These debates about structures, A's & B's and club hopping really astound me

agreed about the points, but what it does do is let kids play at their appropriate level. a kid may have decided to start playing football at 13. He's not going to be technically advanced as a kid who's been playing since he was 4 (theoretically). Hence the divisions. The "best" play the "best" at their age group, and so on. Without these divisions and balancing, you get teams like in my division having played 18, lost 18 with goals against at nearly 200... whats that do for their development? they quit the game.

I think that affects parents and coaches more than kids

you think? we were beating a side 18-0 earlier in the season and i had opposition kids coming to their bench crying. Some of their kids didn't get a single touch of the ball for the whole 60 minutes. I took 2 of my players off and played with 9, leaving 5 on the bench. Now my kids are getting less game time, feel bad about seeing other kids cry and then after the game, i have to shake hands with the coach and listen to him apologize about not giving us a game... its gut wrenching and benefits absolutely no-one. Where if they were playing the bottom teams in each division, they would be more in their ability range. The fact they would get to touch the ball would help their developing. Ignorance is bliss at some of these bigger clubs.

[fossil]

junior points system needs to be brought in with this rule change, that will stop the hoppers and give the clubs who develop players too stay and become stronger and not give the PL unlimited supply of the top 10% of good players which they all get now.
I remember hearing raiders having over 120 players for u/19 trials most 16-18 yr olds and I'm sure all the players were happy at their own clubs but they all wanted to be in the highest level to contest against a high level. (how many of your 17's you kept)

the amatures and the other codes will be the only winners if players can't push against the best then playing with their mates for fun will do.

big clubs will get bigger and the rest will fold or be close too it and then when PL clubs have so many players at trials and not knowing who too pick/keep and players having no chance at playing the better teams due to senior status they will leave.

may have mistaken those tryouts with the reserves, only Micky Doyle Snr has that kind of pulling power! haha. But i agree with the rest of the competition getting stronger while the others are left to pick up the scraps.

My major concern.. PL clubs can now bump up fees knowing they're in high demand cause there kids automatically get to play A division. Also means the juniors are solely there to fund seniors now. You pay these fees, we get to buy good players to keep us in the premier league and your kid gets to play A division...

nope reserves and seniors were trying out seperate.

if the FFSA is serious about this players and points need to apply from the last 2 years this will allow the true club developers/players who have stayed with a club be there and the hoppers to be shown they have a penalty if the PL want them.
I'm sure the PL clubs will run out of facilities, coaches etc by then or have a waiting list and if players can't get in then what does a player do?

[robinfriday10]

Did raiders seniors get any players/coaches fron a certain northern state league club also??

[matty2323]

lets be honest here... does club hopping at junior levels really matter?

So whats our discussion been about for the last 4 hours then ??

i dont see this as club hoping. i see this as giving an unfair advantage to PL clubs. Kids currently club hop to play in the top level, but at the moment, any club and any age group has the chance to play in the top level. Now that is totally reliant of the outcome of the senior set up. Im a Playford boy for life, i love the club, and i plan on coaching for the next 40 years of my life... this sort of structure being implemented puts the future of my club at risk. Playford cant afford to compete financially at senior level, now we wont be able to attract quality coaches or players at junior level.. please, tell me, what is the point of us remaining in the federation?...

[Željko Jurin]

Did raiders seniors get any players/coaches fron a certain northern state league club also??

Players yes

Coach just returned as he was with us previously

[matty2323]

Did raiders seniors get any players/coaches fron a certain northern state league club also??

only about 10 of us! lol.

[Željko Jurin]

please, tell me, what is the point of us remaining in the federation?...

To try get promoted isnt it ? And if we get relegated ....

then ....... BINGO !

[Željko Jurin]

Did raiders seniors get any players/coaches fron a certain northern state league club also??

only about 10 of us! lol.

Chevap rolls and lamb/pig on the spit vs meat pies .... you guys arent dumb

[harrycripps]

Matty 2323

I understand what you are saying, especially about kids playing at their optimum level.

However unfortunately senior teams are not able to attract decent crowds no matter how good their team is or what league they are in.

Why is it that many people don’t go to watch? I believe it is because there is far too much club hopping done by players, senior and junior, and the clubs are not building a club culture.

As bad as it seems in the short term to be in the State League for juniors to start with, and the fact that you will lose some players, after a year or two it will all settle down and the kids that come to your club will probably stay for a long time and become club people.

Club people will always follow one club, through thick and thin, and when you eventually gain promotion you will be a club that will be sustainable and not a club that only survives because of large benefactors and false loyalty.

PS, that tackle your centre back did on my son last week was shocking, that kid needs a lot of developing.

shocking tackle, your boy said he was ok and the end of the game thank fully. It wasn't malicious, it was late. and this is key to what im trying to say. The lad who made the challenge is used to loping around and dominating. All of a sudden he's come up against excellent talent who are quick, agile and skillful. He hangs a leg and cleans the player up. Why? because he's not used to playing at that speed, that intensity and making decisions that quickly. Take that chance for him to develop and get used to playing teams like Raiders every week, and he's going to remain like that.

Maybe it would be better for him to play with slower players in a lower division and then progress to play against quicker players when he has learned how to time tackles properly?