Age Appropriate Players

[juvefever]

I know what I saw....End of Story

[terminator]

I know what I saw....End of Story

I'm with you - some of these players claiming to be 12s, 13s, 14s or whatever age in the juniors is a joke - if some of these players r the age they say they are then I'm going to start telling people I'm 21!!

Its definitely a problem and needs to be sorted out now..

[Stitch This]

If its really such a serious and widespread problems (which I doubt it really is) then the problem is with the clubs and not the players.

Just another minor problem which has been around for years, but which the drama queens here on FN want equate with the end of the world.

[Cruie]

Just for giggles really ...

http://www.footballnews.com.au/forum/vi ... =7&t=67740

... when I read the OP in this topic I did think I had a very very very bad case of deja vu ... and I do too!

;)



(An extra half hour at Lords ... had to find something to keep me awake)

[Coach_Mulatinho]

i believe if you care that much about footbaal, you would tell your kids not to worry about cheaters and take care of their own development first.

if some people take advantage of the holes of the system, they are cheating themselves because they are playing ''wrong'' group age, making it easier for them to win. So they own development isnt honest.

i dont understand why people complain so much when you dont have a proper solution to solve the problem.

[The Kings Jesta]

Hopefully this will clarify a few things:
Having worked with players of various nationalities, who were refugee's from many regions, this is my understanding based on what they have told me, of the immigration process.
When children come in to the country they are tested on educational levels. Based on these results they are given a "birth certificate" to reflect their mental age. Most of them have 1/1/? as their D.O.B.
There can be a fairly large discrepancy between the mental and physical age of these children.

With regards to local sport, no one has broken any sort of FFSA laws when a player with a mental age of 14 and physical age of 16+ plays U/15s as the Aust Government has issued a document stating that the child concerned is 14.

If that player should progress through the local and state levels to an Aust National team, then the bone density test will be conducted.
This was the case with a potential Aussie U/21 player was tested and found to have a physical age of 24/26 one of them, either way he was subsequently removed from the team as he was deemed by FIFA to be too old for the team.

So as things stand now, it's probably a lost cause, unless there is a clear discrepancy in a players age, to have an issue with a player/club/FFSA as their relevant docs will state they are in the correct age...
A club deliberately breaking the rules by playing overage players is a completely separate matter.

Just think yourselves lucky you're not trying to gauge the age of American basketballers... Shaq was 6'3" at 13 and i think 90kgs... imagine if a 13yr old that size took the field here and the questions that would be asked?

[Sacred Noodle]

Know someone high in the education department that has verified similar to the above... also a primary teacher I know had concerns as a boy who would fall in the previous post category was apparently going through real physical changes and had hormones pumping ..

But that being said its not the kids fault ..that's the way the system is and really is fair enough from the education perspective.

Makes it a bit of a challenge for kids with the correct age and especially for those like my younger son who is born late in the year and so young compared to even a lot of others correctly in his age group when it come to sport..

Anyway its obvious this is all referring to the African kids.. the ones my boys have associated with seem to be all really nice boys so live and let live all balances out at the end of the day sporting wise... and from where and what some of these kids have come from can't really begrudge them of a few opportunities..

[juvefever]

Hopefully this will clarify a few things:
Having worked with players of various nationalities, who were refugee's from many regions, this is my understanding based on what they have told me, of the immigration process.
When children come in to the country they are tested on educational levels. Based on these results they are given a "birth certificate" to reflect their mental age. Most of them have 1/1/? as their D.O.B.
There can be a fairly large discrepancy between the mental and physical age of these children.

With regards to local sport, no one has broken any sort of FFSA laws when a player with a mental age of 14 and physical age of 16+ plays U/15s as the Aust Government has issued a document stating that the child concerned is 14.

If that player should progress through the local and state levels to an Aust National team, then the bone density test will be conducted.
This was the case with a potential Aussie U/21 player was tested and found to have a physical age of 24/26 one of them, either way he was subsequently removed from the team as he was deemed by FIFA to be too old for the team.

So as things stand now, it's probably a lost cause, unless there is a clear discrepancy in a players age, to have an issue with a player/club/FFSA as their relevant docs will state they are in the correct age...
A club deliberately breaking the rules by playing overage players is a completely separate matter.

Just think yourselves lucky you're not trying to gauge the age of American basketballers... Shaq was 6'3" at 13 and i think 90kgs... imagine if a 13yr old that size took the field here and the questions that would be asked?

This is essentially what I was asking so thank you for your response.

[Steve#4]

Hopefully this will clarify a few things:
Having worked with players of various nationalities, who were refugee's from many regions, this is my understanding based on what they have told me, of the immigration process.
When children come in to the country they are tested on educational levels. Based on these results they are given a "birth certificate" to reflect their mental age. Most of them have 1/1/? as their D.O.B.
There can be a fairly large discrepancy between the mental and physical age of these children.

With regards to local sport, no one has broken any sort of FFSA laws when a player with a mental age of 14 and physical age of 16+ plays U/15s as the Aust Government has issued a document stating that the child concerned is 14.

If that player should progress through the local and state levels to an Aust National team, then the bone density test will be conducted.
This was the case with a potential Aussie U/21 player was tested and found to have a physical age of 24/26 one of them, either way he was subsequently removed from the team as he was deemed by FIFA to be too old for the team.

So as things stand now, it's probably a lost cause, unless there is a clear discrepancy in a players age, to have an issue with a player/club/FFSA as their relevant docs will state they are in the correct age...
A club deliberately breaking the rules by playing overage players is a completely separate matter.

Just think yourselves lucky you're not trying to gauge the age of American basketballers... Shaq was 6'3" at 13 and i think 90kgs... imagine if a 13yr old that size took the field here and the questions that would be asked?

This sought of information should be common knowledge to everyone involved in junior sport....Thanks, sheds some light on things I once thought were improper.

[angk43]

This is a topic about a kid playing an U15 cup game and driving off at the end. Not about how they are given aussie birth certificate and documents.

[Stitch This]

This is a topic about a kid playing an U15 cup game and driving off at the end. Not about how they are given aussie birth certificate and documents.

Are you the new moderator in town?

On ya bike!

[james stockdale]

This is a topic about a kid playing an U15 cup game and driving off at the end. Not about how they are given aussie birth certificate and documents.

i thought it was about a bunch of sour grapes after a 'important' under 15 game was lost. Must have got that wrong

[juvefever]

This is a topic about a kid playing an U15 cup game and driving off at the end. Not about how they are given aussie birth certificate and documents.

No I am sorry you are quite incorrect. I did pose the question after stating what I saw without mentioning which team or club and if you read my initial question it was how does the FFSA determine where players who don't have a birth certificate play again without mentioning nationality, colour or which club. It was turned into something else by others. For your info no sour grapes here, it was a cracker of a game as I have again already said. Obviously this has touched a raw nerve with some however, ultimately by the sounds of it this is something the FFSA will have to sort out...................eventually.

[Shelby]

I know what I saw....End of Story

I can categorically state none of the White City U15 players that participated in last Thursday's cup match drove home.
The majority of the team left in the bus. (No I am not the driver of the bus)
The remainder of the team left with their parents, I know that to be the fact.

I can only assume you are referring to Metro Stars??

Over to you juvefever.

[charlieadelaide]

My son is 13, plays for the 15s & 16s, is 6 foot tall, has stubble, is aussie, if he were from a different part of the world then people would be asking questions, some kids develop more than others......

On another note, a lot of these kids come here with no education, hence there age is said to be lower so they can get more schooling........I think fair, we all know that some of these kids are older than this, but lets not take away there opportunity to get an education.

In a few years when one of these kids scores the winning goal to get us into a quarter final of the world cup, would anyone complain then????

[Stitch This]

I can only assume you are referring to Metro Stars??

We can only assume you were too lazy to read the whole thread.

[angk43]

This kid (allegedly)drove off at the end of the game after playing in the u15 cup game. If true, this player played under another name , probably under his brothers/cousins friend FFSA number/ID/name . Has nothing to do with his intellect or size/height/beard/colour/race... By the way I teach NAP/ESL at primary school.

[Shelby]

I can only assume you are referring to Metro Stars??

We can only assume you were too lazy to read the whole thread.

I can only assume you don't have the aptitude to understand why I'm asking.

BTW I have read the whole thread and we have juvefever making an accusation.

We have had one parent from Metro Stars denying it was one of their boys, no reason to dispute this.

I have categorically stated its not one of the White City boys.

What juvefever hasn't told us, which he/she continues to evade, is which team he/she is referring to.....which is why I posed the question.

Time for him to put up.

Come on juvefever tells us which team or are you just miffed about something which is usually the case.

[Shelby]

This kid (allegedly)drove off at the end of the game after playing in the u15 cup game. If true, this player played under another name , probably under his brothers/cousins friend FFSA number/ID/name . Has nothing to do with his intellect or size/height/beard/colour/race... By the way I teach NAP/ESL at primary school.

Nothing like a good fantasy story!!!!

[Coach_Mulatinho]

radamel falcao (AS MONACO), apparently is 29 and not 27. so isnt only an african problem. If a white kid comes to the pitch and he is taller than everyone, would you make the same assumptions?

[on-side]

The difference is - that the child would have a birth certificate... not a made up "date of birth".

Again I repeat its not the child's fault they dont have a valid birth certificate... the majority of these children and families come to Australia with nothing but the clothes they are wearing. These families are concerned about surviving day to day and not about whether they have documentation that proves a date of birth.

However this doesnt change the fact that the "estimated date of birth" provided by the immigration department - which is then used as the official "date of birth" for education, sporting and other purposes maybe way off the child's actual age.

I was interested to read in a previous post that for the player where they did a bone scan and determined the player was not U21's - did they change the birth date to suit?

[james stockdale]

The difference is - that the child would have a birth certificate... not a made up "date of birth".

Again I repeat its not the child's fault they dont have a valid birth certificate... the majority of these children and families come to Australia with nothing but the clothes they are wearing. These families are concerned about surviving day to day and not about whether they have documentation that proves a date of birth.

However this doesnt change the fact that the "estimated date of birth" provided by the immigration department - which is then used as the official "date of birth" for education, sporting and other purposes maybe way off the child's actual age.
I was interested to read in a previous post that for the player where they did a bone scan and determined the player was not U21's - did they change the birth date to suit?

It doesnt change the fact but why is it an issue in our domestic comp. Game was lost. Parent gets on here and wants clarity on how these kids get unlealistic age designations.

Is the win that important? Or can you look at fact that the kids came up against real hard opponent which in the end of the day would have been a good challenge/experience

[on-side]

Well if its not an issue with our domestic (local) comp then why have age groups at all...

Lets just have everyone of any age playing in any teams - a bit ridiculous dont you think?

The age groups exist to provide "a somewhat level playing field" - in the same way year levels exist in schools.

But we all need to acknowledge that is not perfect - nothing is and its got absolutely nothing to do with winning or losing but with fairness (and probably to some extend safety) which is why we dont have grown men playing with U12s (over the top example I know).

[james stockdale]

Never stated that it should be a free for all relating to anyone playing in any comp - thats a bit of a OTT statement. As already posted some of these kids come from backgrounds we are lucky not to have to experience in our lifetime so if there if an odd descrepency re age in this circumstance - IMO no biggie.

So are u saying all kids without an original birth certificate should have a bone scan to play football in our local comp? Or maybe not let the kids play at all because its not fair..

I stand by my statement that it doesnt really matter in the scheme of thing unless the win matters.

Take away the points from the comp then this topic wouldnt have been raised. But thats another debate in itself.

[Stepover]

This is a topic about a kid playing an U15 cup game and driving off at the end. Not about how they are given aussie birth certificate and documents.

i thought it was about a bunch of sour grapes after a 'important' under 15 game was lost. Must have got that wrong

Hi James,
hope all is well mate.
To be fair I don't think anybody from metro has come on here and whinged about WC and player ages.
Pretty sure those that have commented about overage players are associated with other clubs.
Unfortunately WC may be in the eyes of some tarnished by a previous over age indiscretion.

[The moyesiah]

This is a topic about a kid playing an U15 cup game and driving off at the end. Not about how they are given aussie birth certificate and documents.

i thought it was about a bunch of sour grapes after a 'important' under 15 game was lost. Must have got that wrong

Hi James,
hope all is well mate.
To be fair I don't think anybody from metro has come on here and whinged about WC and player ages.
Pretty sure those that have commented about overage players are associated with other clubs.
Unfortunately WC may be in the eyes of some tarnished by a previous over age indiscretion.

Can't argue here Metro and City played a fair and very entertaining game, with no incidents. Only a goal in the last minute of extra time, split the two from the dreaded penalty shootout. I agree WC did have an incident at the beginning of the year, which was found that WC were NOT at fault. The stigma will be there, I can accept that, what I and many others can't accept is the lie that was made up. It was impossible that any WC player drived away, and the fact this person made up this story, is a disgrace.

[dinozoff]

Forgive my ignorance here, but judging by the indecent that supposedly happened there is only two ways this could of happened:

1. The child was using a false ID to play in the team.
2. The child was using a false ID to drive the car.

The age of the child compared to his birth certificate is irrelevant.......

[angk43]

Every mother in the world knows exactly when each and everyone of her kids were born.

[james stockdale]

Every mother in the world knows exactly when each and everyone of her kids were born.

My relative councils some of these kids. Mum and dad killed in the home land - or they were separated from parent due to war - they get moved to this country to live with an 'aunty or uncle' who is really someone that was from the same village. Not always that clear cut. Not saying all come from this position but more than what you think

[Shelby]

Every mother in the world knows exactly when each and everyone of her kids were born.

Hope you're being sarcastic, if not that statement shows a total lack of ignorance of where these parents and children have come from.

Most of these children are refugees, their parents come from a background of not having any decent form of education and most have tried to survive from a very young age. Given the life these people lead most would have difficulty in keeping up with what day, month or year it is. For these parents to know exactly when their children were born would be a guess at best and most of the countries they come from would have absolutely no record of birth.

So then then they come out to Australia, most probably have no papers or birth certificates and its then up to the Australian Government to identify these people and come up with a reasonable estimation of their respective age.
Regardless of how this process works these people are provided, by the Australian Government, with a visa or some other government documentation and in some cases issued with citizenship certificates.
Once these documents are provided to these people it will also detail their year of birth, it may not be correct but it is the year of birth detailed on Government issued documents and in many cases these are the documents clubs use to place players in their age groups.

What some on here fail to understand is that no matter how old they look and no matter how old others think they are, these players are placed in ages group relative to the date of birth on their government issued documents.
Like it or not this is how it works and this is how their age group is determined. People need to move on from the constant "he looks older" and "there's no way he is that old". As I said in most cases these kids will have Government documents with there age.
In extreme cases where there may be a discrepancy with the age the Government or Government body can order the child to undertake a bone density scan to determine the child's age.

These methods are the only reasonable way to make an assessment of the child's age. So maybe in future people should understand the process before they start accusations of cheating.

What some of you should also know before you start pointing the finger at certain clubs is that the FFSA has recently acknowledged that the age /identification issues are widespread across all clubs and not the domain of a few clubs like some of you think.