Age Appropriate Players

[juvefever]

If this has been answered elsewhere, then apologies, I cannot find it so......Have been watching junior games for a while now, and without any disrespect or malice to any persons, can someone tell me how the ffsa determines the age of some players who may not have birth certificates, some players I have watched look dreadfully older one was seen driving away on his 'p' plates from a very important under 15 game. Does the FFSA have certain stipulations i.e. a bone scans to determine ages or is it pretty much hit and miss.........as stated not a dig at any one club just asking a question as I know every player must present a birth certificate to be registered, so what happens when there isn't one.

[The moyesiah]

If this has been answered elsewhere, then apologies, I cannot find it so......Have been watching junior games for a while now, and without any disrespect or malice to any persons, can someone tell me how the ffsa determines the age of some players who may not have birth certificates, some players I have watched look dreadfully older one was seen driving away on his 'p' plates from a very important under 15 game. Does the FFSA have certain stipulations i.e. a bone scans to determine ages or is it pretty much hit and miss.........as stated not a dig at any one club just asking a question as I know every player must present a birth certificate to be registered, so what happens when there isn't one.

Maybe you should send your racially poised question to the FFSA.

[juvefever]

Listen, don't go making this out to be a racial vilification, this is not what this is about, however, I am trying to understand how the FFSA determines the ages of some players. A simple answer from someone who may know the answer is all that is asked....Why do you need to turn things into something it isn't and cause drama.

[The moyesiah]

Listen, don't go making this out to be a racial vilification, this is not what this is about, however, I am trying to understand how the FFSA determines the ages of some players. A simple answer from someone who may know the answer is all that is asked....Why do you need to turn things into something it isn't and cause drama.

Because every Australian born child has a birth certificate, meaning you are pointing out certain players that are not.

[juvefever]

Look, I believe that football is a fantastic sport, to be played and enjoyed by anyone and everyone that wants too........and yes it does so happen that Australian Kids do have a birth certificate, and that is the question I'm asking, I don't care what colour or race you are, the question again is if you don't have a birth certificate, how does one determine which age group you play in, and that is simply all so once again, don't go blowing this out to be something it is not.....if someone knows what the procedure is, please let me know.

[rossonero]

The migration dept will give the kids a birth year based on some tests they do.
Clubs and schools will use these dates for registrations.
Some players that I have seen in the past were not old enough to drive but their parents allowed them.

[Stitch This]

The old P plate story

That's been around for ages, even back when Stitch Jnr was playing U14s six years ago.

Do your research before coming on here. Your club has to check either a birth certificate or citizenship before a player can be registered. Bone density test can be ordered if it's felt necessary.

But generally as the The moyesiah has already suggested it really is just another urban myth generated by the small minded racists that infect our society.

[on-side]

It is also the case that some players are just given a random or best guess birth date.

The immigration department cannot do expensive bone scan tests on every child that comes into the country without any documentation.

This is not the childs or the families fault and I am sure the department does the best that it can in determining ages, but it is fact that some birth dates are way out.

This affects all sorts of sports not just soccer.

There was a situation quite a few years ago where there were some questions raised about a child competing in a sport competitions who was clearly several years older than his "birth date" but officials were told they could not request or insist on a bone scan to determine actual age unless they required all athletes to get one.

Again its not the childs or families fault but it does happen. Not sure what the solution is.

[juvefever]

Thanks all, let me just add I have no children playing soccer nor am I associated with any one club, I just watch a couple of matches here and there when I can. I find it a little strange though that in order to get into a state development programme I have heard some parents have had to take their children for a bone scan to determine their height or they will not be considered, not sure why players who wish to take part in any sport cannot have the same thing done. Thanks for the info anyhow.

[The moyesiah]

this is what is wrong with football in this state.

A ref/linesman makes a bad decision at an away game, and they are club aligned or cheating home refs.
A ref/linesman makes a bad decision at their home game, and it happens they are only human.

A team loses a coach and players follow, they want rules changed and are screaming.
A team gains a coach and players follow, they are happy to accept these players.

A team loses and they want to label or question the players.
A team wins and they don't care.

A club follows the paper work they are given and their integrity is questioned.
These same players go to another club and they do the exact same thing, but this time it's not the clubs fault because it's their club.

Maybe it is time for all clubs to say enough is enough, the registration system is flawed, the card check system is flawed and we want it fixed.

This can easily be addressed, as of 2014 all players must take in their original documents to the FFSA themselves, once stamped the FFSA will then take the players photo and send out a drivers licence style ID card. Not a laminated dodge job that can be steamed forged etc but a proper card that has a 3-5 year lifespan (no need to list the club). Yes the FFSA will be busy in 2014 but they will then have a non corrupt age/registration system that everyone knows was FFSA approved and made. If a player loses that card they can even charge for a replacement (which would be on a computer somewhere). It is very simple really, and after 2014 they would be doing this for minimal players.

[juvefever]

Stitch This, I asked a legitimate question for which I was hoping to get a legitimate answer. I did see a player with his strip get in a car with P plates on and drive away. Say what you like, believe what you like I really don't care, I saw what I saw.

[The moyesiah]

Stitch This, I asked a legitimate question for which I was hoping to get a legitimate answer. I did see a player with his strip get in a car with P plates on and drive away. Say what you like, believe what you like I really don't care, I saw what I saw.

So name the club? Did you take the number plate? Maybe the owner was a P plater and the boy didn't have time to remove it when he stole it.

Every week I see kids drive or at night clubs, guess what, it doesn't mean they are 18 or 16.

[angk43]

I'm guessing U15 cup round during the week. Did you get a video or photo.

[juvefever]

Moyesiah, why so defensive......I think you know which club this player belongs to!!! I unlike you have no reason to defend any individuals or clubs as I am not part of any of them, the result of any one particular game to me has no bearing, the game I watched was a cracker of a game and played well by both sides. You have turned this forum question into something it has never been. No I didn't get the number plate of the car, and to suggest the car could have been stolen is very poor on your part. I don't understand why this question has rattled you so, others in this forum have answered without getting so defensive. If true that FFSA are taking steps to ensure that boys play in their appropriate age groups next year this is a excellent. There are some very talented players out there irrespective of race or colour, lets just leave it at that.

[juvefever]

I'm guessing U15 cup round during the week. Did you get a video or photo.

No unfortunately I left the high powered lens at home.........

[The moyesiah]

Moyesiah, why so defensive......I think you know which club this player belongs to!!! I unlike you have no reason to defend any individuals or clubs as I am not part of any of them, the result of any one particular game to me has no bearing, the game I watched was a cracker of a game and played well by both sides. You have turned this forum question into something it has never been. No I didn't get the number plate of the car, and to suggest the car could have been stolen is very poor on your part. I don't understand why this question has rattled you so, others in this forum have answered without getting so defensive. If true that FFSA are taking steps to ensure that boys play in their appropriate age groups next year this is a excellent. There are some very talented players out there irrespective of race or colour, lets just leave it at that.

If you have a problem contact the FFSA they will inform you every single boy was checked with original documents by them.

[angk43]

did you see his wife and kids in the back.

[Željko Jurin]

Fact .... a lot of these kids come over with very little or no education, and are then put in lower classes at school than they're actual 'age', and therefore play in their 'school year level' rather then their actual age year level, which may not be known

[Armageddon]

this is what is wrong with football in this state.

A ref/linesman makes a bad decision at an away game, and they are club aligned or cheating home refs.
A ref/linesman makes a bad decision at their home game, and it happens they are only human.

A team loses a coach and players follow, they want rules changed and are screaming.
A team gains a coach and players follow, they are happy to accept these players.

A team loses and they want to label or question the players.
A team wins and they don't care.

A club follows the paper work they are given and their integrity is questioned.
These same players go to another club and they do the exact same thing, but this time it's not the clubs fault because it's their club.

Maybe it is time for all clubs to say enough is enough, the registration system is flawed, the card check system is flawed and we want it fixed.

This can easily be addressed, as of 2014 all players must take in their original documents to the FFSA themselves, once stamped the FFSA will then take the players photo and send out a drivers licence style ID card. Not a laminated dodge job that can be steamed forged etc but a proper card that has a 3-5 year lifespan (no need to list the club). Yes the FFSA will be busy in 2014 but they will then have a non corrupt age/registration system that everyone knows was FFSA approved and made. If a player loses that card they can even charge for a replacement (which would be on a computer somewhere). It is very simple really, and after 2014 they would be doing this for minimal players.

well said !

[Armageddon]

Stitch This, I asked a legitimate question for which I was hoping to get a legitimate answer. I did see a player with his strip get in a car with P plates on and drive away. Say what you like, believe what you like I really don't care, I saw what I saw.

So name the club? Did you take the number plate? Maybe the owner was a P plater and the boy didn't have time to remove it when he stole it.

Every week I see kids drive or at night clubs, guess what, it doesn't mean they are 18 or 16.

Many clubs bend the rules, clubs have to win at all costs, thats what some clubs think junior football is there for bar helping to pay for seniors !
I'm sure I'll get bagged by people associated with ABE, White City, Croydon or Toros....thats ok .....juvefever .....dont know who u r but obviously you've struck a nerve with some people. Its not racist to question why .

[The moyesiah]

how many of them are actually playing up, did you ever think of that? Clubs are not responsible for the families that move into their area and want to play football, they are given documents by these kids and the clubs use them within the rules. Sure a few clubs have been found with questionable paper work or issues but most cases the clubs are not to blame and either are the other 98% of players. How about we show some pride in these players and congratulate them rather than looking to question their achievements.

[juvefever]

how many of them are actually playing up, did you ever think of that? Clubs are not responsible for the families that move into their area and want to play football, they are given documents by these kids and the clubs use them within the rules. Sure a few clubs have been found with questionable paper work or issues but most cases the clubs are not to blame and either are the other 98% of players. How about we show some pride in these players and congratulate them rather than looking to question their achievements.

Moyesiah, I think you are missing the point, which was, it is unfortunate that the FFSA hasn't been able to establish a way in which all kids are playing on a level and fair playing field, if what I have read on this forum is an indication of what is happening, then really, some players that are playing in for example in under 15 or 16 could be as old as 17 or 18 dare I say 19 and not just one some may have even 4 or 5 on one team. Yes some of them are exceptional players, this is a given, however, how is this fair to opposing teams who have all players in the correct age group. Nor is anyone saying that all players are questionable, but you seem to forget the reason I raised this issue at all is when one sees a player who has just played in an Under 15 match drive away, you can see why this would be a tad confusing. I am not blaming clubs at all, this is an issue for FFSA to deal with should they wish too. You too must understand why some would question results even if this is within the rules. Football is a great game which can teach discipline, teams-man-ship and can also create great friendships. If clubs are adopting a win at all cost mentality which includes playing players who are not age appropriate, they are a failure to themselves, to their club and their players irrespective of how many trophies they may accumulate. My opinion only!

[The moyesiah]

how many of them are actually playing up, did you ever think of that? Clubs are not responsible for the families that move into their area and want to play football, they are given documents by these kids and the clubs use them within the rules. Sure a few clubs have been found with questionable paper work or issues but most cases the clubs are not to blame and either are the other 98% of players. How about we show some pride in these players and congratulate them rather than looking to question their achievements.

Moyesiah, I think you are missing the point, which was, it is unfortunate that the FFSA hasn't been able to establish a way in which all kids are playing on a level and fair playing field, if what I have read on this forum is an indication of what is happening, then really, some players that are playing in for example in under 15 or 16 could be as old as 17 or 18 dare I say 19 and not just one some may have even 4 or 5 on one team. Yes some of them are exceptional players, this is a given, however, how is this fair to opposing teams who have all players in the correct age group. Nor is anyone saying that all players are questionable, but you seem to forget the reason I raised this issue at all is when one sees a player who has just played in an Under 15 match drive away, you can see why this would be a tad confusing. I am not blaming clubs at all, this is an issue for FFSA to deal with should they wish too. You too must understand why some would question results even if this is within the rules. Football is a great game which can teach discipline, teams-man-ship and can also create great friendships. If clubs are adopting a win at all cost mentality which includes playing players who are not age appropriate, they are a failure to themselves, to their club and their players irrespective of how many trophies they may accumulate. My opinion only!

Again what game did you see this player drive away? I assume he is also not of Australian origin.

[juvefever]

how many of them are actually playing up, did you ever think of that? Clubs are not responsible for the families that move into their area and want to play football, they are given documents by these kids and the clubs use them within the rules. Sure a few clubs have been found with questionable paper work or issues but most cases the clubs are not to blame and either are the other 98% of players. How about we show some pride in these players and congratulate them rather than looking to question their achievements.

Moyesiah, I think you are missing the point, which was, it is unfortunate that the FFSA hasn't been able to establish a way in which all kids are playing on a level and fair playing field, if what I have read on this forum is an indication of what is happening, then really, some players that are playing in for example in under 15 or 16 could be as old as 17 or 18 dare I say 19 and not just one some may have even 4 or 5 on one team. Yes some of them are exceptional players, this is a given, however, how is this fair to opposing teams who have all players in the correct age group. Nor is anyone saying that all players are questionable, but you seem to forget the reason I raised this issue at all is when one sees a player who has just played in an Under 15 match drive away, you can see why this would be a tad confusing. I am not blaming clubs at all, this is an issue for FFSA to deal with should they wish too. You too must understand why some would question results even if this is within the rules. Football is a great game which can teach discipline, teams-man-ship and can also create great friendships. If clubs are adopting a win at all cost mentality which includes playing players who are not age appropriate, they are a failure to themselves, to their club and their players irrespective of how many trophies they may accumulate. My opinion only!

Again what game did you see this player drive away? I assume he is also not of Australian origin.

Moyesiah, I am not afraid to say which game this was.....seeing as you are persisitant in demanding to know....it was Under 15 Cup Whitecity v Metrostars at TK Shutter Reserve Last Thursday night. If someone can correct me or I am mistaken on the age group that has played, please do so, but I did ask whilst there and hence the question. His origin is of no consequence as after playing in an Under 15 game how can you be driving?

[The moyesiah]

No idea, I personally didn't see anyone drive away, but it would be interesting if you would elaborate now you have gone and labelled two teams, what team was it? It does matter because it is very interesting the things you claim.

[juvefever]

No idea, I personally didn't see anyone drive away, but it would be interesting if you would elaborate now you have gone and labelled two teams, what team was it? It does matter because it is very interesting the things you claim.

Moyesiah, how does the origin of the player matter, in this country unless you are 16 you cannot drive...fullstop. Stop trying to make this about race when it isn't! If I had seen any player with a strip that had just taken part in that game regardless of nationality or colour drive away I would be asking the same question and if you had seen the same thing so would have you. If this has hit a raw nerve with you then perhaps you had better look inwardly and stop trying to prod and turn issues into something they are not. This question was posed without mentioning club, game or players, you continue to be defensive, and I will not continue in this backward and forward manner with you. As I have stated previously, the outcome of that game is of no consequence to me and it is not up to me to be asking question of the FFSA to check players that played in that match, I will leave these matters to the politicians of the game.

[james stockdale]

No idea, I personally didn't see anyone drive away, but it would be interesting if you would elaborate now you have gone and labelled two teams, what team was it? It does matter because it is very interesting the things you claim.

Moyesiah, how does the origin of the player matter, in this country unless you are 16 you cannot drive...fullstop. Stop trying to make this about race when it isn't! If I had seen any player with a strip that had just taken part in that game regardless of nationality or colour drive away I would be asking the same question and if you had seen the same thing so would have you. If this has hit a raw nerve with you then perhaps you had better look inwardly and stop trying to prod and turn issues into something they are not. This question was posed without mentioning club, game or players, you continue to be defensive, and I will not continue in this backward and forward manner with you. As I have stated previously, the outcome of that game is of no consequence to me and it is not up to me to be asking question of the FFSA to check players that played in that match, I will leave these matters to the politicians of the game.

You need to be 17 to have your p plates. And if 17 your question is answered. So why start banging on about bone scans etc? Are you sure it was the kid that played or maybe a brother withthe same features

[The moyesiah]

well White City don't mind how many Metro players drove out the carpark, because 97% of thier team come in one car and the other three I saw myself drive out with the coaching staff, and they were in back seats, so I will let you continue to accuse Metro because everyone knows that WC team drive in a bus.

[bandito]

well White City don't mind how many Metro players drove out the carpark, because 97% of thier team come in one car and the other three I saw myself drive out with the coaching staff, and they were in back seats, so I will let you continue to accuse Metro because everyone knows that WC team drive in a bus.

Not commenting on any of the above however, my son is in the Metro Under 15 team and let me assure you....no boys overage or driving in that team!!!!!

[The moyesiah]

well White City don't mind how many Metro players drove out the carpark, because 97% of thier team come in one car and the other three I saw myself drive out with the coaching staff, and they were in back seats, so I will let you continue to accuse Metro because everyone knows that WC team drive in a bus.

Not commenting on any of the above however, my son is in the Metro Under 15 team and let me assure you....no boys overage or driving in that team!!!!!

I agree Bandito no player drove away from that game and juve is talking crap and making up stories, I invite him to contact the FFSA, I will even get one of the boys to drive him there.