Query on Campbelltown U16

[beach]

I have no problem with bringing age eligible players playing down to fill gaps, injuries, suspensions, etc. But I have a real problem when a Whole team is made up of players from other age groups. The club should either have an Under 16 team or not.
The 4 player movement from one age group to another is making a joke of the juniors this season.

[James]

I have no problem with bringing age eligible players playing down to fill gaps, injuries, suspensions, etc. But I have a real problem when a Whole team is made up of players from other age groups. The club should either have an Under 16 team or not.
The 4 player movement from one age group to another is making a joke of the juniors this season.

why not pull up players to fill voids?

[Karmic]

For the record WT Birkalla played and won on Wednesday at Para Hills in the 16B comp with every single boy U15 - stacking? or player development ! Comments to contrary are malicious, unfair on the boys and challenge the clubs integrity. If you don't know the facts shut up !

[James]

For the record WT Birkalla played and won on Wednesday at Para Hills in the 16B comp with every single boy U15 - stacking? or player development ! Comments to contrary are malicious, unfair on the boys and challenge the clubs integrity. If you don't know the facts shut up !

if they play 15's and are stepping up then fantastic. If they are playing 17 or above that is stacking. They have been promoted because they are better than u16b.

[owl man]

There was people from modbury there that they already played against and said it was a different team they where not under 15s

[The Kings Jesta]

I always love to read how seriously people (usually the parents) take JUNIOR football. so long as the player playing is eligible for the age group, who gives a stuff which other team they may or may not have been in. You should want to play against the best possible players week in week out, if you just want to win games and leagues put your team in the lowest division they can be and win every week... we all know how good a junior league title in SA looks on a coaches CV and a senior team won't pick player unless they have won a junior title... that sarcasm also applies to teams that "stack" purely for the sake of winning. If players have to come down to make up numbers (yes going up would be better but is not always possible) and they are eligible, be happy for the game you/your child/your team get to play, regardless of who they are playing.
As for the whole travel mid week after work thing... this is what your child chooses to do for fun, support or move on. If they are good enough to make State/SASI then you'll see what level of commitment is really required of player and parent if they want to go somewhere within the sport... 6 times a week.

Moral of the story: be happy that there is a game to play, regardless of the result

[The moyesiah]

let's be honest here, how many spots become available in 18s, ressies & seniors every year at a club?
I would say possibly 10, of those 10 half (if not more) are transfers in and out, leaving 5 spots from within.

The normal U16 team can have 16 players, meaning apx 75% of this team have no hope of breaking into the senior side, meaning they shop elsewhere, go to SAASL or quit. So given these apx stats isn't it any wonder most kids / parents want to enjoy their junior days, and what amounts to enjoyment? winning, success and definitely not losing for whatever reason.

[James]

I agree there are times where player drop down to assist. But if they are playing mid week why down they promote from the 15 side.

My mate coaches at AC and they take a lean senior squad. Any injuries and suspension and they draw up in every grade to fill spots. Great way to give experience to a young player.

I coached a team a few seasons ago and TBH they struggled. We played two top side in mid week games to catch up due to water logged pitches. Both sides dropped players back from grades above. Not players that are the fringe in the squad above. What for? They were scared maybe that we were going to do this also, or they wanted to ensure they won the keep the pressure on top spot. Win at all costs is narrow. Im not bitter just dont understand the reasoning for it.

And my squad got relegated that year. hmm maybe i should have stacked my side

[The moyesiah]

I agree there are times where player drop down to assist. But if they are playing mid week why down they promote from the 15 side.

My mate coaches at AC and they take a lean senior squad. Any injuries and suspension and they draw up in every grade to fill spots. Great way to give experience to a young player.

I coached a team a few seasons ago and TBH they struggled. We played two top side in mid week games to catch up due to water logged pitches. Both sides dropped players back from grades above. Not players that are the fringe in the squad above. What for? They were scared maybe that we were going to do this also, or they wanted to ensure they won the keep the pressure on top spot. Win at all costs is narrow. Im not bitter just dont understand the reasoning for it.

And my squad got relegated that year. hmm maybe i should have stacked my side

And answer this, how many players did that team lose the following year when they were relegated?

[James]

A couple jumped a grade - a couple left. Most stayed. They like the club theyre at and they play with/for their mates. So not a biggy we went down in the scheme of things. at the end of the day we werent of the level.

[The moyesiah]

There are reasons to every situation, and some are to survive, win, & player movement, but it happens everywhere. There is a team in our league, they have only one win, and that was played on a weeknight, stacked or just lucky? Then you have WA they have a team in U15s won the league 2 years straight, and a JSL team in the same age group. They also were having issues with an U17 team, did they choose to move that 15s team up to 16s replacing them with the JSL side, and then moving the 16s to 17s to keep that team? No they scrapped it cos they were losing, plus they didn't want to explain to parents why their son is now in the 16s & possibly not winning for the third year straight, so do some clubs really care? or they only care about what parents & players want because after all they pay the wages.

[beach]

Karmic. That's good value for money for the U15s at Birkalla, the U15s get to play two games a week and in two leagues.

The real point is, should this be allowed. Is it about development for the players or being frightened about not meeting FFSA NPL rules.

[The moyesiah]

For the record WT Birkalla played and won on Wednesday at Para Hills in the 16B comp with every single boy U15 - stacking? or player development ! Comments to contrary are malicious, unfair on the boys and challenge the clubs integrity. If you don't know the facts shut up !

I wonder if Para Hills are now asking if the team sheet has more than 4 extra names from the prior game? Let me guess the FFSA is not worrying about this rule in this case. Last year a JSL team with only 12 players, lost 6 due to Ramadan, were forced to forfeit a game because the FFSA would not allow them to move 5 players, making them have 11. Sure they could have played with 10, however the team was bottom and not having a great year and were playing the top team (who previously beat them 15-0 in a cup game) and did not see it worthy to play with 10. The club did go through with the game as a friendly, lowering 6 players, but the FFSA did not budge on the 4 player rule.

I guess the cheque is in the post.

[Spriggy]

Sorry but there deifinately was NOT any player stacking.

The U16 team is made up of mostly U15 (whoever is available) and the handfull of players that actually signed up for U16's and these players are also acutally u15 elligable.

I am sorry, nobody likes to lose, but I think you just need to gracefully accept that Para Hills were beaten fair & square by a squad of younger players.

[Spriggy]

There was people from modbury there that they already played against and said it was a different team they where not under 15s

Well it seems that the people from Modbury that were there at the Para Hills V Birkalla U 16 game got it wrong.....Biraklla had all younger players. Just accept they won fairly.

Maybe the day they played Modbury some players were away sick or injured, and different subs???? but doesnt this happen with every other team???

[Spriggy]

There was people from modbury there that they already played against and said it was a different team they where not under 15s

Sorry your Modbury friend is stirring you up unnessarily, The difference in the team is that IT IS the U/16 team (who are mostly actually U15 eligable anyway) The U/16s are made of U15s plus the U16's as there werent enough on their own, there would of been different players due to sickness, injury and availablility. At the end of the day they are all younger.

There was no player stacking,
Accept the loss gracefully and just Let the boys play the sport they love and perhaps congratulate the young boys for doing so well. Thankyou

[The moyesiah]

There is only one question here, are there more than 4 players moving each week from one team to another and if so this is a breach of the league rules.

7. Movement of Players

7.3 Where a club has more than one team in any JPL age group, the club may move a
maximum of four (4) players between each team at any given time.

Breach of the rule – Forfeit of game and Level 1 Fine

These are the rules you can ask to be followed and the FFSA must (should) follow them.

Therefore - For the record WT Birkalla played and won on Wednesday at Para Hills in the 16B comp with every single boy U15 - would possibly be a breach of that very rule, and any U14/15/17 game these players could be rotating between.

Development or not it's still a breach of the league rules.

[de niro]

There is only one question here, are there more than 4 players moving each week from one team to another and if so this is a breach of the league rules.

7. Movement of Players

7.3 Where a club has more than one team in any JPL age group, the club may move a
maximum of four (4) players between each team at any given time.

Breach of the rule – Forfeit of game and Level 1 Fine

These are the rules you can ask to be followed and the FFSA must (should) follow them.

Therefore - For the record WT Birkalla played and won on Wednesday at Para Hills in the 16B comp with every single boy U15 - would possibly be a breach of that very rule, and any U14/15/17 game these players could be rotating between.

Development or not it's still a breach of the league rules.

No, I think you've misinterpreted the rule. Note "Where a club has more then one team in any JPL age group,..." - I interpret this to mean in the U16 context - more than one U16 team in the competition. In other words, moving players from the A team to the B team in the same age group. It covers the odd occassion where JSL teams have ended up in the JPL comp because there weren't enough teams to make a JSL comp. Has nothing to do with players moving up and down age groups.

[Spriggy]

I am very sorry that Para Hills have taken the loss so hard, I wonder does it make a difference that your'e on top of the ladder, and question is it all about winning the league??????............

Birkalla have an U/16 team that is short of players, so they are bringing players UP so that the boys on the U 16's team can still field a team and play a game....it is just also a coincidence that the boys that have signed for 16's are also mostly 15 eleigable. So the U/16 team are mostly U/15 age.

Would you rather that these boys miss out on playing all together, if the others didnt come up & help to complete their team????.

Our boys just want to play and enjoy their soccer.
Accept your loss and let the boys play the game.

[The moyesiah]

There is only one question here, are there more than 4 players moving each week from one team to another and if so this is a breach of the league rules.

7. Movement of Players

7.3 Where a club has more than one team in any JPL age group, the club may move a
maximum of four (4) players between each team at any given time.

Breach of the rule – Forfeit of game and Level 1 Fine

These are the rules you can ask to be followed and the FFSA must (should) follow them.

Therefore - For the record WT Birkalla played and won on Wednesday at Para Hills in the 16B comp with every single boy U15 - would possibly be a breach of that very rule, and any U14/15/17 game these players could be rotating between.

Development or not it's still a breach of the league rules.

No, I think you've misinterpreted the rule. Note "Where a club has more then one team in any JPL age group,..." - I interpret this to mean in the U16 context - more than one U16 team in the competition. In other words, moving players from the A team to the B team in the same age group. It covers the odd occassion where JSL teams have ended up in the JPL comp because there weren't enough teams to make a JSL comp. Has nothing to do with players moving up and down age groups.

7. Movement of Players

7.2 A club may move a maximum of four players between the Junior Premier League
and Junior State League in any given week.

There is no mention of age so age makes no difference. Only 4 players may move from any JSL team to any JPL team.

7.3 Where a club has more than one team in any JPL age group, the club may move a
maximum of four (4) players between each team at any given time.

More than one team in any age group, U14/15/16 only 4 players may move between each team at any given time.

7.4 Where a club has more than one team in any JSL age division,the club may move a
maximum of four (4) players between each teams at any given time..

This is for clubs that have two JSL teams and a JPL team.

7.5 Goalkeepers are exempt from this rule and may move in accordance with age
eligibility.

Breach of the rule – Forfeit of game and Level 1 Fine

Ask Metro about what they thought rules meant and then ask the governing body.

After round one of the cup clubs were asked to explain this very subject, and why? because they did lower more than 4 players, however 2 were U18s but age eligible, so if the rule is wrong, why were these teams asked to explain?

Personally I could care less but it seems we may have one rule for some and not another.................no way never.

They do need to write rules with more clarity that I agree.

7.1 As of Season 2014 a club is not permitted to recruit 50% or more players from any
one club that is affiliated to the FFSA competitions. If a club has recruited 50% or
more players from any one club, they must demonstrate that there are exceptional
circumstances for the FFSA to consider. Any decision will be at the discretion of the
FFSA.

What does this mean? from one particular team or the entire club? Surely a club couldn't recruit over 50 players from one club to another, yet I read this and it says club, not a team from a club.

[de niro]

There is only one question here, are there more than 4 players moving each week from one team to another and if so this is a breach of the league rules.

7. Movement of Players

7.3 Where a club has more than one team in any JPL age group, the club may move a
maximum of four (4) players between each team at any given time.

Breach of the rule – Forfeit of game and Level 1 Fine

These are the rules you can ask to be followed and the FFSA must (should) follow them.

Therefore - For the record WT Birkalla played and won on Wednesday at Para Hills in the 16B comp with every single boy U15 - would possibly be a breach of that very rule, and any U14/15/17 game these players could be rotating between.

Development or not it's still a breach of the league rules.

No, I think you've misinterpreted the rule. Note "Where a club has more then one team in any JPL age group,..." - I interpret this to mean in the U16 context - more than one U16 team in the competition. In other words, moving players from the A team to the B team in the same age group. It covers the odd occassion where JSL teams have ended up in the JPL comp because there weren't enough teams to make a JSL comp. Has nothing to do with players moving up and down age groups.

7. Movement of Players

7.2 A club may move a maximum of four players between the Junior Premier League
and Junior State League in any given week.

There is no mention of age so age makes no difference. Only 4 players may move from any JSL team to any JPL team.
Yep, agreed

7.3 Where a club has more than one team in any JPL age group, the club may move a
maximum of four (4) players between each team at any given time.

More than one team in any age group, U14/15/16 only 4 players may move between each team at any given time.
Is English your second language? - more than one team in any JPL age group - pretty clear to me - means more than one U16 team or more than one U15 team

7.4 Where a club has more than one team in any JSL age division,the club may move a
maximum of four (4) players between each teams at any given time..

This is for clubs that have two JSL teams and a JPL team.
Yep, agreed

7.5 Goalkeepers are exempt from this rule and may move in accordance with age
eligibility.

Breach of the rule – Forfeit of game and Level 1 Fine

Ask Metro about what they thought rules meant and then ask the governing body.

After round one of the cup clubs were asked to explain this very subject, and why? because they did lower more than 4 players, however 2 were U18s but age eligible, so if the rule is wrong, why were these teams asked to explain?
Cup rules are different but regardless, it wouldn't be the first time FFSA interpreted their rules differently to the rest of us

Personally I could care less but it seems we may have one rule for some and not another.................no way never.

They do need to write rules with more clarity that I agree.

7.1 As of Season 2014 a club is not permitted to recruit 50% or more players from any
one club that is affiliated to the FFSA competitions. If a club has recruited 50% or
more players from any one club, they must demonstrate that there are exceptional
circumstances for the FFSA to consider. Any decision will be at the discretion of the
FFSA.

What does this mean? from one particular team or the entire club? Surely a club couldn't recruit over 50 players from one club to another, yet I read this and it says club, not a team from a club.
50% not 50 players but yes, from a team not a whole club. Very poorly worded but is meant to stop a coach moving clubs and taking half his squad with him, leaving the old club without enough players to field a team

[beach]

I am very sorry that Para Hills have taken the loss so hard, I wonder does it make a difference that your'e on top of the ladder, and question is it all about winning the league??????............

Birkalla have an U/16 team that is short of players, so they are bringing players UP so that the boys on the U 16's team can still field a team and play a game....it is just also a coincidence that the boys that have signed for 16's are also mostly 15 eleigable. So the U/16 team are mostly U/15 age.

Would you rather that these boys miss out on playing all together, if the others didnt come up & help to complete their team????.

Our boys just want to play and enjoy their soccer.
Accept your loss and let the boys play the game.

If it's not about Winning then play your games on Sundays, at 12noon. You did last weekend and lost to Gawler after, no doubt, after a tough game for the U15s at 8.45am. Moving all of your home games to midweek at SAWSA park, and asking for away games to be moved sounds more like playing to Win, than about developing your players , or letting them "play and enjoy their soccer".

The way Birkalla have manipulated the system this year is either going to be the norm from now on or the rules need to be made very clearly. That is, either play who you like, on any day of the week, that suits you, OR all clubs play to the same rules, and at the same times, and on a Sunday.

[beach]

Birkalla U16 so far this season;

Sunday games played 2, lost 2
Midweek games played 5, won 4, drawn 1

Nothing fishy there then!

Of the remaining 11 games, only 4 to be played on Sunday (one during STIC weekend when no other games scheduled). The rest midweek, when all of the players are available.

Any wonder other clubs think you might be stacking the team

[James]

no point sooking. just junior football. Good research though

[Spriggy]

Birkalla U16 so far this season;

Sunday games played 2, lost 2
Midweek games played 5, won 4, drawn 1

Nothing fishy there then!

Of the remaining 11 games, only 4 to be played on Sunday (one during STIC weekend when no other games scheduled). The rest midweek, when all of the players are available.

Any wonder other clubs think you might be stacking the team

Firstly if all the players are mostly U15's with a a few U16's to make up a team, then how is it "stacking"??

Secondly, to go to the extent you have to nit pick & read whatever your imagination wants to make of the statstistics it just shows how focussed you are about winning the league as you obviously feel threatened by this young team and that is the only reason you are so obsessed with this.

Thirdly you make it sound like Birkalla are the only club that have scheduled night games so they can field a team.
What about Croydon last year sharing their 17's, 16's & 15's?? With night games so that they could field all grades?? etc

And Finally, I also heard that on Sunday Birkalla's 17's also played Para Hills and nearly beat them. They had a draw and that was with a "field player" (a valuable defender) who was told an hour before the game that he was playing GK.
Plus 2 of the normal U16 players had to fill in as due to injurys they would not of had a sub which meant the 2 players were not available to go out to Gawler for the U16 game, plus 2 other players were U15 age & 3 or 4 others are also U16 age AND they still managed to nearly win without a GK.

Are you going to also accuse them to of "stacking" their team because they did so well ???

I think Birkalla should be proud of having so many Young talented players!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[beach]

No body else struggles to put a team together?

Play on Sundays and take what you get

[Spriggy]

Hmmm, Seems like somebody needs to open their other eye!!!!

[Željko Jurin]

Birkalla should just pull out and leave teams with a BYE, then I'm sure everyone would be even happier

[Cha Ching]

No body else struggles to put a team together?

Play on Sundays and take what you get

Yeah I guess that would be better, instead of giving the U15's a chance to develop & have experience playing UP, why not just make it harder for them & the rest of the U16 team .....

Heres a better idea, Maybe instead Birkalla should bring Down all the U16 age eligible boys that are playing Up in the U/18's as they dont have a Sunday game, now that would really rattle the cage, LOL......

[Cha Ching]

Birkalla U16 so far this season;

Sunday games played 2, lost 2
Midweek games played 5, won 4, drawn 1

Of the remaining 11 games, only 4 to be played on Sunday (one during STIC weekend when no other games scheduled). The rest midweek, when all of the players are available.

Just wondering if you also have all the statstics for all croydon's games last year when they played all their night games of similar age groups so could share players as not enough to field all age groups??? Nobody seemed to have a problem with allowing them to play night games??????

Can you please also explain why playing a make up game on STIC weekend is such a problem. I am sure there will be other clubs doing the same across the board...