Wanderers vs Lady Reds

[johnydep]

I agree that the ethos, culture and mentality across the board needs to change, but I'm a firm believer in that leadership comes from the top, and in this regard the role of ffsa is fundamental in leading by example and creating the environment for change. The ability to unite all the divisions is critical. They are after all the self imposed custodians of the game.

I agree that FFSA can be instrumental in effecting such a change- other than telling the clubs and Prems coaches what's expected and giving them the resources to implement the changes, what else can they do? I'm asking for practical ideas and not suggesting that FFSA has done everything possible- however it's a two way street and I think that when you ask clubs and prems coaches to buy into a program aimed at feeding players into a higher level it all gets a bit territorial and not very collaborative. It makes the prems coaches a bit like reserves coaches to the WLeague if you think about it. The first step is to for all to agree about the reasons that the Prems competition exists and then implement programs that everyone buys into and is willing to support. That's the only way that the Prems competition will get strong enough to support a successful WLeague program. That's the long term solution. The short term solution is to find more money to import more players (both interstate and international) with higher level experience that will help to establish the proper culture among the local elite players.

Js there is so much I can say on this topic, but I will refrain for my own personal reasons.

I'll just reiterate that the ffsa are the self appointed caretakers of the game (the stakeholders, those volunteers who run the clubs, do not appoint them - a failure in the governance model there in itself).

In the private sector, what do u think happens to the CEO who doesn't have any solutions to the company's problems and looks to his/her customers for the solution or to apportion blame?

I'll leave you with that thought and where the onus of responsibility lies.

Spot on. The FFSA need to start communicating better, they need to start including clubs more on decisions of change, and they need to consult with clubs; before they've made up their mind on changes.

These are issues that just about every club from woman's, men's and juniors keep bringing up every year. Yet a few people have the gall to say its the 'clbs fault'.

The FFSA is the head of football in this State, the leader. If the troops are failing, it's up to the leaders to get them organised and winning. If moral is down, it's up to the leaders to boost it. If communication is failing, it's up to the leaders to repair it. If system updates are required, it's up to the leases to implement it efficiently and reliably. If one or more of these fail everything is weekend, and something has to change, otherwise everyone gets stuck in a quagmire.

Like you, I also can say a lot more on this subject. Anyone read the book Catch 22?

[Bagman]

What were we talking about again ??
:?

[SAD GAL]

SAD DAy for womens's soccer in this state.

Not the coaches fault. Not the players fault.

THE FFSA IS TO BLAME. How can you expect a team taht has players poaloying in an insipid prems league to have the fitness and conditioning to play in the W-League? HOWWWWWWW??????

You clowns.

[QuantoQuesta]

SAD DAy for womens's soccer in this state.

Not the coaches fault. Not the players fault.

THE FFSA IS TO BLAME. How can you expect a team taht has players poaloying in an insipid prems league to have the fitness and conditioning to play in the W-League? HOWWWWWWW??????

You clowns.

Maybe if they had some individual pride and desire to get fit for the W League?

EC manages to be fit?

Also as has been mentioned before DE tried to take players out of clubs to prepare for W League but was stopped... Was this FFSA or the clubs..?

[SAD GAL]

There needs to be a program...forget development...if it isn’t there it won't be useful at all. The girls come from a very low skills base.

A program of fitness and conditioning can be done. Prems clubs aren't anything special and they only train 2wice weekly and with probably a 40% turnout. Plenty of time to set up and run a conditioning program all year round. End of the day you can be a dynamo in the poor prems league however there needs at national league level, your conditioning needs to step up many many levels.

Question is, who’s in charge of the fitness and conditioning? The coach? Hope not.

Clubs or FFSA to blame for stopping players train with Reds? Clubs complain that 1 or 2 players may not come out to their high level high performance coaching so they step in and whine and whinge to the FFSA and make the player feel bad…threaten to drop them to prems…..This always has and will always happen.

Again. There needs to be a clear direction on what the FFSA wants to achieve with the Reds. And then set up a program where the players are in the best condition to embark on the National League campaign.

[Gazelle]

Getting adequate funding for Adelaide United will be the answer to all problems.

Firstly, international & interstate players will have an incentive to come and play for the Lady Reds, hence increasing the level of competition to get into the team.

This issue of the squad only getting together shortly before the season starts will be resolved: International and interstate players will have an incentive to remain in Adelaide throughout the year or half year, since they won't have to worry about finances.

Personally, I don't think that it's feasible to have year-round training. Players need a break or else they'll over do it and get injured or burnt out. I think it's a better option for trials to be held over 6 months prior to the commencement of the league and get the team training together once or twice a week for 6 months, increasing the frequency of training as the season approaches. Assuming players are also in a prems team, this will total 4 trainings and a game each week.

BUT again, this could not happen if the players do not get paid - 5 days of soccer a week is possibly too much for the girls who are supporting themselves financially because they'd have to work to make a living, while attempting to live the lifestyle of a professional athlete.

[voldemort]

FFSA to blame or not…??
I see FFSA making an effort with Women’s football but it’s just a cut down replication of the what’s happening in the boys and mens - Development squads NTC etc.
I don’t see any great initiative of development for the Womens and girls game apart from the W league team which they need to be applauded for supporting after the AU owners dropped it.
Most of what is happening development wise is probably FFA directive so there isn't much to get excited about from FFSA and the head of Womens Football in SA.

The debacle continues ...

What's that?? 7 defeats in a row, bottom of the table after winning the wooden spoon last year, and 7 straight games where we can't score from open play. That indicates that there is severe dysfunction all over the park.

Lets be honest here ... If this was the men equivalent, kosmina or another a league coach, someone would be held to account.

Another disappointing result.
SW is correct some accountability needs to occur for the results.
These aren’t volunteers doing the coaching roles they are full time paid coaches.
As SW points out results like these with any other team or league wouldn’t be tolerated

Time the Carter twins had a re think about resource allocation.
2 full time paid coaches on the bench and the players getting paid zero.
Get rid of one of them and allocate some of the saved money to the playing squad and improving the squad.
There r plenty of coaches around who could do the cone and ball boy duties of the present assistant, time FFSA were at least developing a female assistant for W league.
As for the head coach.
IMO
In a tough W league season after a rock bottom result last year and bottom result in NTC having the notion of Adelaide being able to play superior possession football with the least experienced, lowest profile & lowest paid (zero $) group of players is either over inflated expectations in coaching capabilities or naive.
Every team that plays Adelaide who has a 45% possession count and scores 4 or more goals would be delighted with that outcome.

Feel for the players – they deserve better.

[QuantoQuesta]

People really have no idea!!!

Possession based game plan was the ideal but it hasn't happened every week, against Canberra the lady reds played a much more counter attack based style, which worked until the last 16 minutes! A number of people saying the side plays one up front, yet on two occasions I've seen at least 2 sometimes 3 have played up front, I even understand they played 442 against Western Sydney at bathe weekend!

People commenting on formations or style of play etc when they don't even watch the games are ridiculous!

As for the NTC, well they beat WA, ACT, Northern at the recent NTC challenge, only losing to NSWIS, QAS and Victoria, all of whom have much bigger playing populations and much better resourced program's!

As for the two full time coaches being paid, they aren't being paid out of FFSA or Lady Reds budgets, they are paid for by FFA or funding for other jobs they do such as head of womens football, Paralympic sport etc... Completely differ to Previous coach who was paid $40k for 12 weeks work and given a huge budget to fly in out of state players each week as well as source international players from the US etc..

[voldemort]

People really have no idea!!!

Possession based game plan was the ideal but it hasn't happened every week, against Canberra the lady reds played a much more counter attack based style, which worked until the last 16 minutes! A number of people saying the side plays one up front, yet on two occasions I've seen at least 2 sometimes 3 have played up front, I even understand they played 442 against Western Sydney at bathe weekend!

People commenting on formations or style of play etc when they don't even watch the games are ridiculous!

As for the NTC, well they beat WA, ACT, Northern at the recent NTC challenge, only losing to NSWIS, QAS and Victoria, all of whom have much bigger playing populations and much better resourced program's!

As for the two full time coaches being paid, they aren't being paid out of FFSA or Lady Reds budgets, they are paid for by FFA or funding for other jobs they do such as head of womens football, Paralympic sport etc... Completely differ to Previous coach who was paid $40k for 12 weeks work and given a huge budget to fly in out of state players each week as well as source international players from the US etc..

QQ
Do you read what you write?
You mock as ridiculous comments on formation or style of play when they don’t watch games but just before & I quote “..I even understand they played 442 against Western Sydney …”
Either you saw it or by your own admission your comments are ridiculous which is it?

And you seem to have missed the pre-emptive suggestion to the next comments “… rethink on resource allocation”

If anyone thinks FFSA are just going to throw a pot of money at the Lady Reds well tell em theyre dreaming.

Prioritising resources seems the only way

NTC 2012
Table After Round 20
POS TEAM P W D L For Agst GD FF PTS
1 Croydon 20 15 3 2 55 18 37 0 48
2 Adelaide Blue Eagles 20 15 0 5 84 28 56 0 45
3 West Adelaide 20 11 4 5 57 43 14 0 37
4 Adelaide City 20 10 2 8 42 33 9 0 32
5 Adelaide Comets 20 9 5 6 41 32 9 0 32
6 Raiders 19 9 4 6 45 34 11 0 31
7 Campbelltown City 20 7 5 8 37 32 5 0 26
8 Cumberland United 20 7 5 8 43 40 3 0 26
9 Seaford 19 5 1 13 36 50 -14 0 16
10 WT Birkalla 20 2 8 10 31 62 -31 0 14
11 NTC Girls 19 0 1 18 14 106 -92 0 1

[QuantoQuesta]

That's why I said apparently!!! I have seen the other games, just not the one in Sydney, when 'I understand' they played 442.

As for posting the league table from the boys competition that the NTC girls played in, That does not change the results they got at the NTC challenge when they were competing against other NTC teams!!

It would suggest that with a team of 14 and 15 year old girls the U15 boys comp was not where they should have been playing and from what I hear they won't be playing in the boys comp this year, instead just training and playing friendlies since the idea of them becoming a full time program was blocked by clubs...

As far as your talk of reallocation of resources, if the coach is paid for by FFA (as with all other states) as the NTC coach then FFSA cannot magically reallocate his salary to pay players!? So I'm not sure what you are suggesting? Previously SASI paid their coach and Adelaide United paid MB, a rumoured combined total of $110,000 compared to the $50000 of DE for both jobs.

[Faith No More]

Lady reds ...insipid.
another year being the laughing stock of w league.
PS: goalie should stop eating pies !

Keeper is in great shape and wld put u to shame most likely.

What level do u play at????? I assume juniors going by the quality of the post, but then that offends all kids.

i watch them at training each week, inspiring.............NOT!

[billy the kid]

Who runs the NTC program? It sounds like its a mess too

Do we have any future here? When is someone going to hold these people to account. The FFSA (SAWSA) have single handedly seen the rise and capitulation of the womens's league. Its a shadow of its former self.

Paying players etc will change nothing.

A solid program of fitness and development is required. And it doesn't involve rehashing old has beens in the coaching circles.

[Gazelle]

Paying players etc will change nothing.

A solid program of fitness and development is required. And it doesn't involve rehashing old has beens in the coaching circles.

So do you not think that paying players will increase the competition and encourage younger players to strive for the top spot?

Of course paying players changes everything - just look at the turn around that Perth have had this year!!

When the youngsters see their city's team doing well, with top players producing quality football, it will motivate them to do better, try harder and strive to be the best player they can be. This will raise the standard on an individual level and then, with the development programs in place, their abilities can be furthered on a team level.

Nothing will change unless funding is dramatically increased.

[QuantoQuesta]

Paying players won't change the players we have but it will allow us to attract better players, as Perth have done!
Goalkeeper, centre backs, centre mid and strikers are all new to Perth and would not have gone unless there was money available.. (Telford, Milne, Canadian girl, McCollum, Gill and DeVanna)

[juniorsupporter]

That's the first half of the solution- well stated QQ. The second half is finding a way, over the long term, to strengthen the quality of the club competition so the players can transition more easily to a competitive WLeague team.

One question that hasn't been asked is where Melbourne and Perth (especially as the size of their federation is similar to ours) are getting all this money to pay imports?

[billy the kid]

The girls just want to play in a competitive unit that has direction. They want to be a part of the team that has a structure that will make success (and success will mean different things to different people) inevitable.

Year round? Of course not however, a conditioning program. Proper education on things like fitness nutrition and strength and conditioning program is what's required. Otherwise SA is treating the W-League as a prems league ie do F All and hope for the best. Its the national league FFSA. NATIONAL LEAGUE. Not the SA Prem league. Hence why the results are where they are. And why our players are not up to the rigors of national league.

Again (and not that I want to) raise the SASI squad. They basically transposed over to the National League team and even they (with all the training and playing in a boys comp) found it a challenge. At least they played attractive football at local and National levels. This is not something we are hearing from the Red OR the NTC squad!!!!

[voldemort]

That's why I said apparently!!! I have seen the other games, just not the one in Sydney, when 'I understand' they played 442..

I tempted to ask where "apparently" was in the post but reading the rest I won't bother
I do watch games as well.

As for posting the league table from the boys competition that the NTC girls played in, That does not change the results they got at the NTC challenge when they were competing against other NTC teams!!

ACT, NT...wow big scalps! good for the CV. Here I was thinking bottom of the w league table 2 years running, NTC girls bottom in their league, lowest participation for years, lowest numbers in STIC for years and perhaps thing weren't so good...
btw Hope the WA NTC coach isn't going for the Matildas job - might be struggling there

It would suggest that with a team of 14 and 15 year old girls the U15 boys comp was not where they should have been playing and from what I hear they won't be playing in the boys comp this year, instead just training and playing friendlies since the idea of them becoming a full time program was blocked by clubs...

Here I'm misinformed too, I was lead to believe this team consisted of some over age players as well.
I guess run so successfully thats why the clubs have blocked it

As far as your talk of reallocation of resources, if the coach is paid for by FFA (as with all other states) as the NTC coach then FFSA cannot magically reallocate his salary to pay players!? So I'm not sure what you are suggesting? Previously SASI paid their coach and Adelaide United paid MB, a rumoured combined total of $110,000 compared to the $50000 of DE for both jobs.

Thats two goes at misreading my original comments

[snow white]

Paying players won't change the players we have but it will allow us to attract better players, as Perth have done!
Goalkeeper, centre backs, centre mid and strikers are all new to Perth and would not have gone unless there was money available.. (Telford, Milne, Canadian girl, McCollum, Gill and DeVanna)

McCallum, De Vanna are local WA girls.

To think Perth lost Sam Kerr to Sydney, and yet in the space of 12 months have gone for fighting to for the wooden spoon and losing to Adelaide, to genuine league contenders, is impressive. When Perth beat Sydney a few weeks ago, Perth didn't have McCallum, De Vanna and Gill, yet despite these 3 outstanding players, they still managed to beat Sydney with basically local players and their 3 internationals.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't our current coaching regime boast on arrival of having a reputation for turning around struggling teams into competitive units???

Yes Perth has its internationals, but so do we ..... If they have developed through their system players like De Vanna, McCallum and Kerr, then thats a compliment to them, not an excuse for us.

Last year lack of preparation and fitness was the excuse. Fair enough .... but 12 months on, we were all told that the preparation was great, and the girls were training 8-10 times per week. Sadly, that excuse is now redundant by the coach's very own blog.

Actually, the excuses have run out .... and now we are grasping the apparent lack of finances as the core reason, when in reality, none of us reliably know what other teams are paying their players, if any.

Finally, world football also teaches us in many examples, that the richest clubs, and those that pay the highest, don't always win titles.

[juniorsupporter]

The other teams are paying more players more money. It is known.

Richest clubs don't normally come bottom either.

[southern]

Some great point in this thread but some massive ones are still overlooked IMO.

First of all, as far as I know clubs were never asked to consider year long training for WLeague, NTC etc. Is this true though? When was this done and what were the clubs involved? Some of you talk about this like it's public domain...please give us some more insight.

Second - and most important - I think when you talk about all the shortcomings you don't see that THERE ARE NO EXCUSES because, even if we admit to the fact that in SA there are no good players etc. when you look at the players two play for Australia (with Emma Checker being a "bright star" on the papers and all...) and another 7 are imports!!! That makes it 10 players at least that should be excellent, plus a goalie who is actually doing ok IMO. Like SW says, where are NOW all those talks of great preparation etc? There needs to be someone accountable here, and please stop ranting about the clubs...How about the people responsible for the shambles?

[snow white]

The other teams are paying more players more money. It is known.

Richest clubs don't normally come bottom either.

'It is known'. Please provide your sources JS and whether these payments extend to the whole squad or just some high profile players, otherwise its just rumour and innuendo.

Your right though, that richest clubs don't normally come bottom, but I think everyone here would be happy just with a competitive team.

Its a no brainer that more money will help, but not the panacea. When MB was in charge I gather the Lady Reds had a greater budget, but the results were still abysmal. Sometimes throwing money at the problem does not resolve the problem. Perth were still able to develop the likes of De Vanna, Kerr and McCallum ...... that should be one of our aims. The last full fledged Mathilda we had was Alagich and time is rapidly moving on.

I'll ask you for the third time, despite the debacle we have seen for largely the last 5 years, has anyone ever been held to account?

Accountability rather than excuses maybe the first positive step in the right direction.

[juniorsupporter]

Snow White- you win. You're right. I give up.

[snow white]

Snow White- you win. You're right. I give up.

Its not about me winning JS ... the sport I love is in a malaise when it should be flourishing.

I have the choice of sitting in silence, or voicing my opinion in the hope someone in the position to make changes, will. My opinions may well be wrong, but I do know that things are far from right as we speak.

I just asked for you to source your info that other W League are paying their entire squads. I've been around football long enough to not believe everything I hear on the grapevine, especially player payments, which are often confidential between player and club, yet many claim to know who is on what.

As for the accountability question, I believe its fundamental going forward. Once again, just my opinion.

[johnydep]

.....

Accountability rather than excuses maybe the first positive step in the right direction.

Sounds good to me.

Football organisations should be treated like any company with shareholders/stakeholders.

[John Cena]

please dont mention the carters on here last time I did i was told that legal action will be taken but you know your underperforming and hurting the brand, do the game a favour and walk and lets get some new blood in, the fact is ever since anton has moved away from the sport its gone downhill. but thats just my opinion

[juniorsupporter]

The other teams are paying more players more money. It is known.

Richest clubs don't normally come bottom either.

Paying more players more money does not equal "paying their entire squads". This is why it is pointless to argue- glad you're passionate about the game. But I am still not going to argue any more.

[snow white]

The other teams are paying more players more money. It is known.

Richest clubs don't normally come bottom either.

Paying more players more money does not equal "paying their entire squads". This is why it is pointless to argue- glad you're passionate about the game. But I am still not going to argue any more.

Not looking for arguments JS, just valid sources to substantiate ur pay claims.

[QuantoQuesta]

Just a quick question, do any of you think DE was going to post a pre season blog that said, I'm afraid the lady reds are poor againthisnseason and will struggle because of poor quality players andnamweak local league?

Of course not he had to say preparation was better and things look positive....

[snow white]

Just a quick question, do any of you think DE was going to post a pre season blog that said, I'm afraid the lady reds are poor againthisnseason and will struggle because of poor quality players andnamweak local league?

Of course not he had to say preparation was better and things look positive....

What utter nonsense and poor attempt to defend.

Why lie this season when he was very comfortable in telling everyone the same things 12 months ago other than to hide the failures of the program??

Remember it's also his paid job to turn things around. So what your saying is that someone can continue to get dismal results for the next 5 years, and every year blame it on the league and the clubs.

If preparation was actually poor, responsibility rests soley with him. He is a full time, paid professional who had 12 months lead time, with paid assistant with new training facilities. Aside from preparation don't you think a coach's role is at least improve the players he has?? Can you honestly say the team has shown any improvement from last year? We are not talking winning w league here, just improvement.

I amazed how the clubs are singled out for blame along with those few, ever diminishing volunteers who run the clubs. The clubs don't run the league. They only get a chance to put in feedback. They have no voting rights or sway in final decision making process. As such, only those who actually run the league can be held responsible, if u think the poor league is the main reason behind the lady reds woes.

[johnydep]

It's tiring to hear the constant blaming of clubs, and of the Lady Reds coach.

The problem is in the way that the organisation is implementing its system; lack of consultation and communication with clubs and players, confidence of players, and so on (can't be bothered saying it again).

Did anyone watch this years State teams? The training was low intensity, the games mostly boring, player/parents had little or no feedback, football education was poor (there's more to it than just knowing one position).

Some of those players were with the State system for several years; has anyone done an audit on their progress? Some of the exceptional players learnt their trade at clubs, not the State. These are the future Lady Reds players.

Everyone on here needs to stop blaming the players and the coach. You need to look at the people that have implemented change and those that have been happy to follow rather than lead, you need to look at the experience of those working in the system. There are (or was) junior experience teaching the senior squad, people being influenced by parents rather than consulting clubs, etc.

Questions that need answering:

• How many players has the State system produced in the past 6 years?
• Which clubs did those players come from?
• What is the percentage figure, of players developed that have moved into a serious football playing role (using total player numbers from State system)?
• Which coaches produced players ready for high level competition? (List of players for each coach).
• Has there been any analysis work done (on system used, players, coaches, outcomes to clubs and their players, etc)?
• What is the final goal of the State system, is there a time line, is there another way if the current system fails?
• What is the process used by the FFSA in coming up with the current process and implementing change?
• Who is on the board that decides and introduces the football development system of the past 6 or so years?
  Etc

There is one simple answer - Independent inquiry!