Lady Reds vs Sydney FC

[guess_who]

Its now round 6 or whatever. We are last and have conceeded alot of goals. We unfortunately dont have the players to be able to play out from the back EVERYTIME! How many time do we have to turn the ball over just outside the box before we look to change tactics. If its on play it but seems like thats all we know and force it a number of times.

[juniorsupporter]

"The W LEAGUE IS NOT A DEVELOPMENT LEAGUE!!!"

I understand what you're trying to say SG, but it presupposes that a mature player, even a highly capped Matilda, playing in WLeague is not still developing, or that the team isn't developing as a group-not to split hairs, but even the best athletes in the world are always developing their game and trying to get better. It's always about development.

I suppose you might mean that in a perfect world they would be starting from a higher level of development than they are, being young overall- unfortunately, as has been pointed out on this thread there is a pretty big gap between the local comp and the WLeague- until that gets sorted out the options are to either go with what's available her in SA or recruit more from out of state and overseas- I don't think anyone can use the argument that it would be keeping opportunities from local players if they're not ready for it.

I have no doubt that all of the players in the Lady Reds this year are learning and developing heaps from the experience both individually and as a squad-whether it's skills, tactics, expectations for fitness or how to conduct themselves as professionals on and off the pitch... things to build on going forward.

[The General]

Good discussions.

I do have a huge problem with the coach asking the players what style they’d like to play. Then again in defence, he’s trying to do the best he can with many players from different clubs trying to cope with a game style at club level (and sometimes struggling with even that basic game plan) and then being asked to consider a new style of game.

As I’ve always said, the stock of quality mature players is diminishing and we’re now cutting into very young and inexperienced players to carry the flag.

The W LEAGUE IS NOT A DEVELOPMENT LEAGUE!!!

+1

[voldemort]

You could not be more wrong!

This type of football is exactly the style of football we players want to play! We don't want our keeper to punt the ball downfield and chase after it, we want to play football!

Please don't try to tell us what we want, you do not know!

In fact the team were asked by DE how they wanted to play and they said they wanted to play possession football, play out from the back etc. pretty forward thinking coach in my opinion, actually asking players at the star of the season how they want to be considered as a team and how they want to be seen by others et.

Hey QQ ease up turbo - I think you may have misread what CC was trying to say, does not mention anywhere about kicking ball long anywhere - "the way the game should be played", I thought refers to passing, keeping possession, supporting the player with the ball, 2nd + 3rd efforts etc. etc all simple stuff, which we are not doing enough off.
As for asking players what style they want to play, I find that strange ? Unless he did to see if the players were on the same page as him ?

+1 TG

So had the team said no we want to play a long ball game they would be playing that??
I think everyone wants to see a possession based game style but the alternatives aren’t as black and white as play out from the back every time or play a long ball and chase it game surely. Lets hope DE has a few options between the 2 extremes…good time to show them.
55% possession in own back third isn’t really helping much.

[snow white]

I find it very interesting that we have this growing school of thought out there that 'good' football only equates to playing out from the back in every instance and that anything else is backward and negative.

I think you will find little argument that a possession style game is far superior to a route one, long ball style in terms of the quality of football, attractiveness to the sporting public and indeed results on the park.

Playing 'possession' comes in many diverse approaches, based on the type of players you have and the tactical system that goes with your approach to the game.

The mantra of 'playing out from the back' is overly simplistic.

From what I've seen of the Lady Reds so far, 'possession football' equates to the keeper passing out to a defender or deep midfielder, who then proceed to pass either sideways or backwards in their defensive third, then after 4-5 passes, try to go past the half way and subsequently lose possession.

There is a complete breakdown in the ability to hold the ball in midfield, make time and space or carry the ball (Gorry would be perfect) and then link midfield and attack.

Currently we have meaningless possession in defense, but can't hold the ball in midfield or attack long enough to generate enough chances to have a decent conversion rate.

As such, we have only succeeded in scoring from open play in a 10 minute individual spell in round 1, and have conceded an avalanche of goals inbetween.

Too much focus and simplistic talk on the keeper starting the play, but not enough work and cohesion in linking defense to midfield to attack.

[guess_who]

I find it very interesting that we have this growing school of thought out there that 'good' football only equates to playing out from the back in every instance and that anything else is backward and negative.

I think you will find little argument that a possession style game is far superior to a route one, long ball style in terms of the quality of football, attractiveness to the sporting public and indeed results on the park.

Playing 'possession' comes in many diverse approaches, based on the type of players you have and the tactical system that goes with your approach to the game.

The mantra of 'playing out from the back' is overly simplistic.

From what I've seen of the Lady Reds so far, 'possession football' equates to the keeper passing out to a defender or deep midfielder, who then proceed to pass either sideways or backwards in their defensive third, then after 4-5 passes, try to go past the half way and subsequently lose possession.

There is a complete breakdown in the ability to hold the ball in midfield, make time and space or carry the ball (Gorry would be perfect) and then link midfield and attack.

Currently we have meaningless possession in defense, but can't hold the ball in midfield or attack long enough to generate enough chances to have a decent conversion rate.

As such, we have only succeeded in scoring from open play in a 10 minute individual spell in round 1, and have conceded an avalanche of goals inbetween.

Too much focus and simplistic talk on the keeper starting the play, but not enough work and cohesion in linking defense to midfield to attack.

Amen Snowy!

[Bagman]

From what I've seen of the Lady Reds so far, 'possession football' equates to the keeper passing out to a defender or deep midfielder, who then proceed to pass either sideways or backwards in their defensive third, then after 4-5 passes, try to go past the half way and subsequently lose possession..

With KH in goal an asset that is sadly being wasted is the power of her kicks .
If The Lady Reds all knew that every third disposal was going to be a thumping kick and we had 3-5 players running at full pace toward the oppersition goal 'knowing' that the kick was coming- imagine the pressure on the opposition backs.

This would create much more time and space for the play out from defence option as well .

VERY small game plan change indeed.

[scipio africanus]

From what I've seen of the Lady Reds so far, 'possession football' equates to the keeper passing out to a defender or deep midfielder, who then proceed to pass either sideways or backwards in their defensive third, then after 4-5 passes, try to go past the half way and subsequently lose possession..

With KH in goal an asset that is sadly being wasted is the power of her kicks .
If The Lady Reds all knew that every third disposal was going to be a thumping kick and we had 3-5 players running at full pace toward the oppersition goal 'knowing' that the kick was coming- imagine the pressure on the opposition backs.

This would create much more time and space for the play out from defence option as well .

VERY small game plan change indeed.

Good observation ... KH's long kicks are the most penetrating in the Prem League, along with her throws which are strong enough to penetrate into the opening parts of midfield.

Now I'm not advocating that we revert to long kicks every time, but like you said, we could use this to our advantage on a ad hoc basis to try and catch the opposition unaware.

I watched Celtic cause a massive upset beating Barcelona, the best example of possession playing football. Celtic caused grief and I think scored, from a long kick. Morever, having watching Barce a fair bit in the Champions League, even their keeper does occasionally kick long.

But I want to reiterate that kicking long will not solve the problems. Its just having some diversity in the game plan.

The key is still focusing on possession, and playing out from the back, but ensuring that we can hold the ball and create sufficient FORWARD movement for the ball to reaching our attacking third.

I think DE is aware midfield mix is struggling hence, his recent changes, including playing McLaughlin alot deeper. I honestly believe Ruth Wallace should be in the mix. Properly motivated, Ruth has much value to add along with other midfielders in the league who either weren't selected or didn't try.

I also can't help but think what contribution Ebony W would add in central defense alongside Erceg. Not sure why she isn't playing, but its not often you get such a strong defender who from memory also scores 10 goals plus a year. Would also like to see what impact Jenna McCormick can add, even if its off the bench.

Final observation ... also noting that our opponents aren't pressing aggressively as we attempt to play out from the back. Instead, they back off, congregrate and take shape in the midfield and await four us to send the ball into that mix, and then press the turnover.

At any rate, I'm sure DE is across the deficiencies and hard at work correcting them. Unfortunately for him, the season is short and we are already at the half way mark.

[billy the kid]

Most of the players (90%) don't have the capacity to comprehends and or implement another game plan. Most of the se players have only played a few years and played in a team with very loose game plans. So trying to implement new game styles is like peeing in the proverbial.

When we talk about the former SASI team and their successes in the old WNSL, the foundations were there in place. SASI for all their faults, had instilled a game plan that was taken into the WNSL and fared well. It also helped that 95% of the sensations was made up of SASI players. This non-SASI players were mature aged and competent.

This is not to with the Reds.

Happy to read a contrary view.

[scipio africanus]

Most of the players (90%) don't have the capacity to comprehends and or implement another game plan. Most of the se players have only played a few years and played in a team with very loose game plans. So trying to implement new game styles is like peeing in the proverbial.

When we talk about the former SASI team and their successes in the old WNSL, the foundations were there in place. SASI for all their faults, had instilled a game plan that was taken into the WNSL and fared well. It also helped that 95% of the sensations was made up of SASI players. This non-SASI players were mature aged and competent.

This is not to with the Reds.

Happy to read a contrary view.

Isn't the purpose of the NTC team to prepare the team all year and learn different game plans? But then question is, how many NTC players made it to the W League team.

[Gazelle]

I agree that the possession game is doing nothing good for the team.

They try to build up play from the back, but for various reasons, they can't do that successfully.

4 or 5 passes might be strung together in the defensive third, but sooner or later, the opposition closes in and takes the ball. The high % of possession means nothing. We keep the ball, then lose it to an attacker who can then shoot easily or attack dangerously due to how close to the goals we are turning the ball over.

There also seems to be limited desperation and hunger for the ball. It is instinctive to get rid of the ball when there is a scramble in the box, but time and time again we try to pass it out, lose possession and concede.

The girls should take it upon themselves to change things up during the match if they can see that something is not working. They're the ones playing, so they should be able to pick out the opponents weaknesses more easily than the coach.

The other problem about playing the same passing game for the 90 mins is that it becomes predictable. The opponents then know where the ball is going and can close the play down quickly. We need to start thinking more about what we're doing.

The predictability thing also goes for when the keeper has the ball. Harvey always goes short. She needs to believe in herself because she can make the long kicks. An example of when she should have shaken things up a little was in the dying minutes of the 2nd half against Sydney. She had the ball and should have booted it up to one of the attackers to give us one last chance for a goal, but instead she played it short. There was nothing to lose by kicking it long, so I don't understand why she didn't do that!

[scipio africanus]

I agree that the possession game is doing nothing good for the team.

They try to build up play from the back, but for various reasons, they can't do that successfully.

4 or 5 passes might be strung together in the defensive third, but sooner or later, the opposition closes in and takes the ball. The high % of possession means nothing. We keep the ball, then lose it to an attacker who can then shoot easily or attack dangerously due to how close to the goals we are turning the ball over.

There also seems to be limited desperation and hunger for the ball. It is instinctive to get rid of the ball when there is a scramble in the box, but time and time again we try to pass it out, lose possession and concede.

The girls should take it upon themselves to change things up during the match if they can see that something is not working. They're the ones playing, so they should be able to pick out the opponents weaknesses more easily than the coach.

The other problem about playing the same passing game for the 90 mins is that it becomes predictable. The opponents then know where the ball is going and can close the play down quickly. We need to start thinking more about what we're doing.

The predictability thing also goes for when the keeper has the ball. Harvey always goes short. She needs to believe in herself because she can make the long kicks. An example of when she should have shaken things up a little was in the dying minutes of the 2nd half against Sydney. She had the ball and should have booted it up to one of the attackers to give us one last chance for a goal, but instead she played it short. There was nothing to lose by kicking it long, so I don't understand why she didn't do that!

I would imagine the keeper is under the instruction to play out in all instances.

[Bagman]

The predictability thing also goes for when the keeper has the ball. Harvey always goes short. She needs to believe in herself because she can make the long kicks. An example of when she should have shaken things up a little was in the dying minutes of the 2nd half against Sydney. She had the ball and should have booted it up to one of the attackers to give us one last chance for a goal, but instead she played it short. There was nothing to lose by kicking it long, so I don't understand why she didn't do that!

KH would believe in herself ! What she has been through and achieved in the last 2-4 seasons is an absolute example to any young player and a credit to her , and IMO should make some of the automatically selected under performers look in the mirror ..


In the Prem's KH uses MASSIVE kicks often, almost always to the advantage to Metro's .

The sadly predictable short passes and roll out's from defence is a DE directive ( I'm starting to think he has no choice either )
because it's not working and he would have to know that ...

4- nil x 2 ,
the girls don't deserve that happening again.

[connectfour]

Interesting reading all the posts, and I sometimes wonder if we have complicated things too much, become too technical.
I believe football/soccer is a simple beautiful game, complicated by the coaches and or the players.

Here we have a guy with qualifications would get him a coaching gig overseas, has all good intentions, for a professional team.
Our team is made up of players who work study ( or both ) and struggle to get to training, probably mentally worn out by game day.
Something about a full time coach working with a part time team, that doesnt quite add up. I feel for the coach ( is he trying too hard to justify his appointment ) I feel sorry for the players, they do not look like they are playing the type of football they enjoy.
Should he let go of the reins a little and just let them play ? Can they do any worse ? K.I.S. principle.

In reflection of holding the Reins. If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins. Benjamin Franklin

In saying, the players lack passion, they lack understanding of what it means to earn the right to wear the strip. The players lack the dedication and determination to step it up and fight for every square inch of ground. Coaching maybe a problem but from what i saw it was players who are letting the whole of Adelaide down, including their coaching staff with their poor attitude, carefree presentation on and off the field.
Humiliation is not the word here, absolutely pathetic is! The coach should demote several big names and not play them (they were dismal, those free kick stand up dummies would have done a better job) id rather have the younger girls who may lack skills but have drive, passion and determination and wont give up. Some players have it way to good, coasting along and thinking they don't have to work. DE has 20 odd players use them! Make the big gun players sit up and take a step back so they can smell the stench of disgust, instead of the sweet perfume of success which, if they are looking to go 4 in row at the bottom, then they are successfully on the right path to achieve it.

Watching training tonight again was piss poor, players rock up late, players take 1/2 hour to get ready after doing hair and putting little ribbons in them (while this is tongue in cheek it very much seems that way) i thought by the look and feel they had won six nil on the weekend?
The game showed where they are at, hugging the opposition after the game, smiles and laughter? WTF where is the look of "grit and dented pride" , "this isn't happening again" if passion drives you! there is none and therefore no drive! Reason is non-existent, why are you playing girls?

Hilary Clinton moved faster through Adelaide at 1 mph than some of the Lady Reds did in that game. I am loyal to the Reds and want the girls to compete even if they lose doing it but someone better tell these girls what’s required or another Pavlos Joseph and Beckham chat could occur. Winning one game doesn't mean you take the foot off the pedal, step up and be counted! coz the next newspaper article wont be so flattering.

This may fire up some players friends or even players GOOD! prove it on the field not here!

Like all things in football its my opinion and observations and is no way personal.

[SAD GAL]

Totally agree. The soccer scene fro albeit for a handful of players is about socialising and connecting with gal pals from across the state and interstate.

Been to many state comps where all that seems to be happening is a big social event. As I said for all but a few, its fun times.

It’s a weird scene. I thought that girls who played football had that edge that the barbie girls who played netball or basketball didn’t have. I’m wrong. Maybe it gets knocked out of those who do have the edge by those who don’t want to get their knees dirtied or hair messed up.

Hugging the opposition>? Give me a break. Don’t embarrass yourselves girls. Get off the pitch and get a reality check. SA women’s football is in trouble and no coach will arrest the slide.

2006 was the last time this game had any cred.

Yes....these are my views and I will not single out players for specific mention becuase its indemic across the whole sport.

[QuantoQuesta]

Interesting reading all the posts, and I sometimes wonder if we have complicated things too much, become too technical.
I believe football/soccer is a simple beautiful game, complicated by the coaches and or the players.

Here we have a guy with qualifications would get him a coaching gig overseas, has all good intentions, for a professional team.
Our team is made up of players who work study ( or both ) and struggle to get to training, probably mentally worn out by game day.
Something about a full time coach working with a part time team, that doesnt quite add up. I feel for the coach ( is he trying too hard to justify his appointment ) I feel sorry for the players, they do not look like they are playing the type of football they enjoy.
Should he let go of the reins a little and just let them play ? Can they do any worse ? K.I.S. principle.

In reflection of holding the Reins. If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins. Benjamin Franklin

In saying, the players lack passion, they lack understanding of what it means to earn the right to wear the strip. The players lack the dedication and determination to step it up and fight for every square inch of ground. Coaching maybe a problem but from what i saw it was players who are letting the whole of Adelaide down, including their coaching staff with their poor attitude, carefree presentation on and off the field.
Humiliation is not the word here, absolutely pathetic is! The coach should demote several big names and not play them (they were dismal, those free kick stand up dummies would have done a better job) id rather have the younger girls who may lack skills but have drive, passion and determination and wont give up. Some players have it way to good, coasting along and thinking they don't have to work. DE has 20 odd players use them! Make the big gun players sit up and take a step back so they can smell the stench of disgust, instead of the sweet perfume of success which, if they are looking to go 4 in row at the bottom, then they are successfully on the right path to achieve it.

Watching training tonight again was piss poor, players rock up late, players take 1/2 hour to get ready after doing hair and putting little ribbons in them (while this is tongue in cheek it very much seems that way) i thought by the look and feel they had won six nil on the weekend?
The game showed where they are at, hugging the opposition after the game, smiles and laughter? WTF where is the look of "grit and dented pride" , "this isn't happening again" if passion drives you! there is none and therefore no drive! Reason is non-existent, why are you playing girls?

Hilary Clinton moved faster through Adelaide at 1 mph than some of the Lady Reds did in that game. I am loyal to the Reds and want the girls to compete even if they lose doing it but someone better tell these girls what’s required or another Pavlos Joseph and Beckham chat could occur. Winning one game doesn't mean you take the foot off the pedal, step up and be counted! coz the next newspaper article wont be so flattering.

This may fire up some players friends or even players GOOD! prove it on the field not here!

Like all things in football its my opinion and observations and is no way personal.

Absolute lies!!!!! Training starts at 6.30 and every single player was there well before that! Why lie?

[billy the kid]

Quanto Questa.....Its like hearding cats at training time. BY the time you take out the chit chat and other discusisons (not soccer related) there's not much left of the training session.

[paul merson]

Quanto Questa.....Its like hearding cats at training time. BY the time you take out the chit chat and other discusisons (not soccer related) there's not much left of the training session.

We have a fines system, if your not on the pitch ready to start at 6.30 on the dot you pay, you'll find people get a move on and are ready on time.

Oh and being ready to train doesnt mean being on the pitch at 6.30, its being mentally ready to train too.

[Caretaker Coach]

You could not be more wrong!

This type of football is exactly the style of football we players want to play! We don't want our keeper to punt the ball downfield and chase after it, we want to play football!

Please don't try to tell us what we want, you do not know!

In fact the team were asked by DE how they wanted to play and they said they wanted to play possession football, play out from the back etc. pretty forward thinking coach in my opinion, actually asking players at the star of the season how they want to be considered as a team and how they want to be seen by others et.

I am sorry you misinterpreted what I was trying to say, and reading some of the latest comments , I feel some people still dont understand.
There are a lot of things that happen during a game, that have not come up at training, and it is how quickly you react to certain game situations that show what kind of player you are. You just cant prepare at training for every situation.
I am a great believer in players being pro active , rather then being reactive.

[Gazelle]

I am a great believer in players being pro active , rather then being reactive.

+1

[Caretaker Coach]

I am a great believer in players being pro active , rather then being reactive.

+1

I think you mentioned something similar in your post, about the girls looking to take some individual responsibilty when things arent going well on the park.

[juniorsupporter]

"The game showed where they are at, hugging the opposition after the game, smiles and laughter? WTF where is the look of "grit and dented pride" , "this isn't happening again" if passion drives you! there is none and therefore no drive! Reason is non-existent, why are you playing girls? "

connectfour- was watching the men's game v. CCM last night. Top of the table clash, very intense- At the end of the game what were all the guys from both teams doing? standing in the middle of the field, shaking hands, patting each other on the bum - smiling and laughing...socialising!

Are you going to say that the men have no grit or intensity because they are chatting on the pitch after the final whistle?

[Gazelle]

What's on the pitch stays on the pitch and what's off the pitch stays off.

People can do whatever they want once the final whistle has blown. As long as the joking around and socialising doesn't occur within the 90 mins, what's the problem?