Lance Armstrong faces doping charges

[God is an Englishman]

I wasn't there and I'm not even in that business but I read some reports and it seems clear that adam is a bank robber and I hope he's remembered as such

[adam]

oh dear...

AUSTRALIA'S most influential cycling coach Matt White has confessed to being a part of the Lance Armstrong doping conspiracy that has become the biggest drug scandal in sporting history.

White, 38, a former Olympian, last night stood down from his jobs as the sports director of the emerging Australian professional team Orica-GreenEDGE and coordinator of Cycling Australia's men's road racing program.

"I am sad to say that I was part of a team where doping formed part of the team's strategy and I too was involved in that strategy," White said in a statement that followed a day of crisis talks with GreenEDGE founder, Melbourne businessman Gerry Ryan, and the team's manager, Shayne Bannan, who are both in China.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/more- ... 6494871368

[DOC]

David millar is a drug cheat, his testimony would get thrown out by any good lawyer

Matt white was sacked after telling a team mate to see a non team affiliated doctor, again his testimony means nothing

Find me a clean source and a positive test

I have discredited 7 riders testimony and I'm not a lawyer, sorry 8 with landis, if lance wanted to fight it he would, but it just takes money away from live strong

[DOC]

Could even say 9 riders as Davis has been implicated and cleared before so not sure what good he will do the case as he already has a dodgy past

[adam]

David millar is a drug cheat, his testimony would get thrown out by any good lawyer

Matt white was sacked after telling a team mate to see a non team affiliated doctor, again his testimony means nothing

Find me a clean source and a positive test

I have discredited 7 riders testimony and I'm not a lawyer, sorry 8 with landis, if lance wanted to fight it he would, but it just takes money away from live strong

how have you invalidated their testimony?

will see what the UCI lawyers think of it...

[God is an Englishman]

David millar is a drug cheat, his testimony would get thrown out by any good lawyer

Matt white was sacked after telling a team mate to see a non team affiliated doctor, again his testimony means nothing

Find me a clean source and a positive test

I have discredited 7 riders testimony and I'm not a lawyer, sorry 8 with landis, if lance wanted to fight it he would, but it just takes money away from live strong

how have you invalidated their testimony?

will see what the UCI lawyers think of it...

So, what about this bank robbing? Why don't you defend yourself on these accusations?

[sephiroth]

positive test in the open yet?

nope? ok then bankrobber adam

now he has implicated 3 aussies: allan davis, who has been cleared once before, but the allegation stalled his career, michael rodgers who has been at the top for ages and would have surely failed a test if he was doping, and michael white, i dont know a lot about him

go read the case file!!! many positive tests!

[adam]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... ull.column

A day of reckoning for Lance Armstrong's fans

The doping case will eventually chip away at the goodwill the cyclist has built up raising funds for cancer.

Gale Holland, Los Angeles Times

October 16, 2012

Tim Loranger is a Los Angeles aviation attorney who was deeply moved by Lance Armstrong's story of beating cancer. The former Marine wears the Armstrong yellow wristband, races in an Armstrong hat and has raised thousands of dollars for Armstrong's cancer charity.

He's not convinced that Lance Armstrong used performance-enhancing drugs.

"I don't think they have proven a case against him," Loranger said.

All due respect to Loranger, a dedicated philanthropist who has watched family and friends endure cancer, but the evidence is in: Armstrong used blood transfusions, the blood booster EPO, and testosterone "from start to finish" in winning an unprecedented seven Tour de France championships, the United States Anti-Doping Agency said last week. Now we can say it straight: Lance Armstrong is a doper.

Yet Loranger isn't alone. Armstrong still denies it; his spokesman, Mark Fabiani, argues the agency was "bending the rules at every opportunity," and its findings can't be trusted.

On one online forum after another, commenters attacked the anti-doping agency's case or insisted it doesn't matter.

What are we to make of this refusal to accept overwhelming evidence? No one cares?

Well I care. There's only one way to play sports: by the rules.

Let's run down some of the objections the Armstrongers raise against the anti-doping agency's proof:

• Armstrong never failed a dope test: Armstrong underwent far fewer tests than the 500 to 600 he has claimed, failed one and dodged others, the agency said. After testing positive for a cortisone injection, Armstrong had a prescription for cortisone cream back-dated, its report said. He said it was used to treat a saddle sore.

•The evidence against Armstrong is circumstantial: Nine professional cyclists were clients of Michele Ferrari, an Italian doctor hired by Armstrong, and gave eyewitness accounts of his doping practices; their statements are corroborated by financial records showing that Armstrong paid Ferrari $1 million, according to the agency's report. This is just the kind of case prosecutors like to tuck into their briefcases on their way to court.

And no, the U.S. attorney in Los Angeles did not clear Armstrong when he dropped a grand jury investigation into the cyclist in February. The case can be reopened and the agency evidence was developed independently of the criminal investigation.

•Armstrong's accusers have not been cross-examined: Armstrong in August walked away from a chance to put them on the grill. He and his lawyers said that's because the anti-doping agency's investigation was stacked against him, but he could have shown that at a hearing. Instead, he blew it off.

I could go on, but the real question is: Why does this matter?

Contrary to the rationalizers, not everybody was doping. Competitors who rode clean were cheated of a fair contest.

More importantly, Armstrong bullied his teammates into doping, supplied them with drugs and left their careers in tatters, the agency reported. When they talked about doping, he threatened their livelihoods, the report said. His Irish masseuse, Emma O'Reilly, told the New York Times that Armstrong impugned her as a prostitute with a drinking problem.

Livestrong, Armstrong's cancer charity, is no celebrity trifle. Armstrong has raised tens of millions of dollars for the charity, which is well-regarded in many circles for helping cancer survivors live better and overcome stigma.

But to my mind, Armstrong used the charity as a force-field to ward off doping accusations. He cultivated a public face both as a victim of the most dreaded disease of our time and a warrior vanquishing it. Quite a neat trick.

The Armstrongers shrug their shoulders: What are you going to do? Armstrong didn't invent doping, their argument goes, and you can't fight it. Bring on the pharmaceutical freak show, and may the best Dr. Frankenstein win.

Do these people play sports or just watch them? Throwing the sport wide open to pharma-meddling won't award the best cyclist, as they claim. It will award the best doper. And that would not only be immoral, and possibly dangerous. It would leach the magic from the sport.

The romance of cycling is a lone rider gritting up the Rockies beside a dancing creek, or schussing down a coastal incline. It is not a grubby little refrigerator stuffed with vials of fluids, or athletes hooked up to wheezing bags of blood with Dr. Vampire standing by thumbing rolls of cash.

Professional cycling inspires people to live clean and healthy and push for their personal best. The rest of it, the money and endorsements, is corporate noise.

But can anything really be done to clean up the sport? Forget about rectifying old titles and records. Ticking down the list of finishers to find a clean rider is a fool's errand. Everybody wasn't doing it, but the top guys clearly were.

However, the sport going forward can police itself a lot better. Cyclists including Armstrong wriggled out of drug testing by ludicrously simple stratagems like fleeing a hotel, dropping out of a race or simply not answering their door, the anti-doping agency said.

Sure, dopers will discover new chemicals, and we won't always catch them right away. But that's no reason not to try. The threat of stringent enforcement is a powerful deterrent. Doping enforcement in cycling hasn't posed a credible threat for a long time, if ever.

If Armstrong really cares about his charity, he should step down as the public face of Livestrong. Although his supporters are in full throat now, the doping scandal eventually will inflict damage, CharityWatch President Daniel Borochoff said.

"It will take a while before people accept it," he said. "But this latest evidence is so damning."

After leaving cycling, Armstrong has competed in marathons and triathlons, and according to the agency, he's remained in consultation with the Italian doctor. He shouldn't be allowed to taint these other sports.

A hero is a hard thing to give up. But a liar and a cheat is no hero.

gale.holland@latimes.com

Copyright © 2012, Los Angeles Times

[bapa]

yet, NO positive tests........?

[God is an Englishman]

positive test in the open yet?

nope? ok then bankrobber adam

now he has implicated 3 aussies: allan davis, who has been cleared once before, but the allegation stalled his career, michael rodgers who has been at the top for ages and would have surely failed a test if he was doping, and michael white, i dont know a lot about him

go read the case file!!! many positive tests!

I thought there was only one positive test which was satisfatorily explained at the time and no action taken.

[DOC]

plus the 9 riders i have mentioned have tainted records and were tapped up to testify and many have already lied under oath, looks like a witch hunt

the only rider with a clean record implicated is rodgers

[adam]

Liggett stands by his man...

Despite USADA's evidence Liggett remains Armstrong's supporter
By: Daniel BensonPublished: October 15, 13:22, Updated: October 15, 18:45Edition:First Edition Cycling News, Monday, October 15, 2012

Tv commentator says he's been made to "look like a fool"

Phil Liggett, who has in the past criticized USADA’s case against Lance Armstrong and often defended the Texan, has given his first reaction since the anti-doping agency released their 1,000 page submission into doping in the US Postal team.

Armstrong was stripped of his seven Tour titles by USADA after a damning investigation that included testimony from 26 individuals, 11 of whom were former teammmates.

Liggett has been a constant supporter of Armstrong through the rider’s career and through numerous doping allegations. He admitted to not having read the report, with his information having been received second-hand through news sources. He told Cyclingnews: “It is a witch hunt, lets face it, because they only want Lance. Call it what you like, the fact is they only have one ambition and that’s to get Lance.”

Liggett, who has commented on the Tour de France for a number of television networks in a career that has spanned 40 years and 35 Tours, added that he was still a supporter of Armstrong, despite the fact the revelations around Armstrong's doping had made him ‘look like a fool’.

“If he’s been taking drugs then of course it’s right [to sanction] but they still lack the absolute proof as far as I’m aware. I still am a supporter of Armstrong. Whatever way we look at it Lance has been good for the sport. No one can condone, if it’s finally proved, that he’s ridden his whole career on drugs. I had an email from an eminent scientist from the US yesterday. An SMS actually. It said if Lance Armstrong had taken the drugs outlined by USADA he’d have been dead ten years ago. He’s an eminent scientist and a very intelligent man. I don’t know his name, the SMS came from a secondary person.”

In August, Liggett had claimed that witnesses had been paid for giving evidence against Lance Armstrong in the agency's investigation into doping and conspiracy – the veteran commentator still appeared to defend Armstrong, regardless of whether he had cheated. Liggett's claims were immediately rebuffed by USADA.

“He has been the best athlete in the world and the drugs have not made him that much better, He’d have probably still have won on a level playing field and still been the champion. He’s also brought a lot of happiness to a lot of people and no one seems to have taken this into account and introduced a lot of bike riders into the sport and into cycling as a pastime.”

Liggett’s assertion that Armstrong had brought happiness is at odds with USADA’s report, in which the disgraced cyclist is accused of helping to run a systematic doping regime, with intimidation an employed tactic.

“Of course you feel cheated. As a commentator you’ve made these guys super heroes and in frankness it’s made you see a bit of a fool to say the least but we were only fools in retrospect.”

Liggett added that Tyler Hamilton’s book, The Secret Race, had been an awakening. Having criticized Hamilton in the past, Liggett said: “I don’t believe it’s possible to write a book like Tyler Hamilton has done without it being the truth. I don’t think it’s possible. Everyone has read the book. There has to be a lot of truth in book but at the end of the day there has be a shadow of doubt.”

“But I’ve no reason not to support Armstrong. I don’t know. He told me to his face that he didn’t and I had no reason not to believe it. Don’t forget, on television we don’t actually mix with the riders. I call the pictures as I see them.”

In August, Liggett also stated that he would retire if Armstrong had been proven as a drug cheat. The UCI has to either ratify or appeal USADA’s case but Liggett said that his future had already been decided by future contracts.

“I can’t [retire] because of contracts that have been signed that will not let me walk away. If I had no contracts signed I’d be ready to give up the sport now. I’ll be 70 years old next year and there are still things I want to do with my life. I can’t walk away because of contracts I’ve signed until 2016. I do find it depressing at times.”

[bapa]

plus the 9 riders i have mentioned have tainted records and were tapped up to testify and many have already lied under oath, looks like a witch hunt

the only rider with a clean record implicated is rodgers

this!

[adam]

as in "this is naive" ...

[adam]

Scottish bookstore shelves Lance Armstrong bio in ‘Fiction’

So we all pretty much agree that no matter what the truth may be, Lance Armstrong's reputation is in tatters, yes? Given the United States Anti-Doping Association's damning report on Armstrong's alleged masterminding of a covert doping ring, it's become tough to reconcile the image of Armstrong now with the heroic seven-time winner of the Tour de France.

Of course, the lawsuits are flying, with Armstrong charging that there is no merit to the USADA's accusations, and other entities, including the federal government, looking for their pound of flesh from Armstrong. Still, you can't just come right out and say Armstrong is a doper without risking incurring his wrath; he has filed suit before to protect his name.

So a Glasgow bookstore has taken a hide-in-plain-sight step: filing Armstrong's autobiography under the heading of "Fiction." Effective statement, isn't it?

Granted, one bookstore making a clever stand isn't exactly painting a scarlet A (or D, for "dope") on Armstrong's chest. But it illustrates a greater point: Armstrong has lost the faith of a significant percentage of the public, and may not ever get it back. At the very least, he's got a huge mountain to climb.

[God is an Englishman]

as in "this is naive" ...

you don't get it do you. I told you from the very start that I think he probably took the drugs. However, there appears to be little evidence other than from people with an axe to grind or previous drug cheats.

Have usada handed over the evidence yet?

[adam]

the 4 corners story

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/ ... 608613.htm

[adam]

as in "this is naive" ...

you don't get it do you. I told you from the very start that I think he probably took the drugs. However, there appears to be little evidence other than from people with an axe to grind or previous drug cheats.

Have usada handed over the evidence yet?

yes

[God is an Englishman]

the 4 corners story

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/ ... 608613.htm

saw that and apart from 1 person, they are all easily discredited and already proven liars.

[adam]

the 4 corners story

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/ ... 608613.htm

saw that and apart from 1 person, they are all easily discredited and already proven liars.

and that is what i think is naive... to think that a "proven liar" can not come clean and tell the truth...

have you never been told a lie, and then have that person own up?

[God is an Englishman]

the 4 corners story

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/ ... 608613.htm

saw that and apart from 1 person, they are all easily discredited and already proven liars.

and that is what i think is naive... to think that a "proven liar" can not come clean and tell the truth...

have you never been told a lie, and then have that person own up?

I am merely looking at it from a legal perspective, do you think a defence lawyer wouldn't question the motives of a bank robber accusing someone of being a bank robber.

Of course they could be telling the truth but history shows they have lied before and could lie again. All of them have something to gain.

[adam]

I am merely looking at it from a legal perspective, do you think a defence lawyer wouldn't question the motives of a bank robber accusing someone of being a bank robber.

Of course they could be telling the truth but history shows they have lied before and could lie again. All of them have something to gain.

yes... i agree with that. i choose to believe that they are now telling the truth...

and that Lance is left with the weight of his lies.

[adam]

Nike, the global sportswear brand with long standing ties to Lance Armstrong, have announced they have terminated their deal with the rider on the basis of "seemingly insurmountable evidence that he participated in doping and misled Nike for more than a decade".

[God is an Englishman]

Nike, the global sportswear brand with long standing ties to Lance Armstrong, have announced they have terminated their deal with the rider on the basis of "seemingly insurmountable evidence that he participated in doping and misled Nike for more than a decade".

He's retired anyway hasn't he. How long were they going to sponsor a bloke who's not actually competing.

[adam]

Nike, the global sportswear brand with long standing ties to Lance Armstrong, have announced they have terminated their deal with the rider on the basis of "seemingly insurmountable evidence that he participated in doping and misled Nike for more than a decade".

He's retired anyway hasn't he. How long were they going to sponsor a bloke who's not actually competing.

he was looking to get a lot more active in Triathlons, also he still participates in many runs and rides. He was sill a big name for Nike.

Also it is not so much that they have dropped him, but the wording of their statement that was interesting.

[DOC]

5 riders get out of season bans to testify, they have everything to gain

nike dont want the bad press, they are smart

landis fought for years before coming clean, lied in court under oath, as many others have, tyler hamilton is the same

[Rampant Antagonism]

I can't believe this is worth seven pages.

[God is an Englishman]

I can't believe this is worth seven pages.

no one forced you to read it.

[Rampant Antagonism]

I didn't.

[adam]

5 riders get out of season bans to testify, they have everything to gain

nike dont want the bad press, they are smart

landis fought for years before coming clean, lied in court under oath, as many others have, tyler hamilton is the same

so... now they are telling the truth. game over.