The Manchester Evening News got it about right, there on the spot M.U reporter said MU fans that had home tickets asked to be put in with there own through obvious fears for there safety & the police opened turnstyles to let them in then 100's of MU outside probaly with legit tickets for seats taken by MU with forged ones stormed the turnstiles & charged into the seating.
How can they blame lille for this???
1. Uefa sets the amount of numbers that are allowed in a stadium, and only give the limit of seats to the away fans, so can't blame lille.
2. idiots buying home tickets when there away, thats where a lot of trouble starts from.
3. People had forged tickets
4. Charging of the turnstiles
People were getting crushed cause of idiots within the travelling group, not cause of police.
man utd v lille
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aussie_ascoli
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1) the stadium shouldnt be uefa standardLFTWNG11 wrote:Lille isnt to blame, the mancs are to blame... they should have given out the tickets just before the travelling fans let etc etc... the mancs gave out the tickets to their fans on the 1st of feburary, thats three weeks to creat forgeries!
2) wouldnt matter when they handed tickets out because i heard from a source that because there was only one entrance the staff didnt even bother checking alot of the away supporters tickets,just ushered them in
3) the french police over-reacted
4)lille are a disgrace for how they reacted
5) LFTY stick that in your pipe and smoke it and lick my left testy
Yeah and I suppose Liverpool wasn't to blame for Heysel too, you tool. At least manyoo wont get all English clubs banned from Europe for this. Typical Liverpool supporter, blame manyoo when your fans did exactly the same thing and resulted in 39 dead italians. However, to this day, can Liverpool fans put their hands up and admit they were too blame? No facking way. What was their excuses again? Oh yeah, it wouldn't have happened if the Italians had stood and fought. (Ok, well we both know that never would have happened.) The ground wasn't up to UEFA standard. It was not us, it was Chelsea, etc., etc. Just remember what happened in your own backyard clown. Yes some tickets may well have been forged, does that mean decent fans deserved to be crushed and have tear gas fired at them? You'd think of all people a Liverpool fan, given what happened at Hillsborough, wouldn't be so ignorant. Maybe the 100 Liverpool fans crushed to death deserved it, because of all the Liverpool fans who rocked up without tickets and flooded the turnstile? Thats the essence of your logic.LFTWNG11 wrote:Lille isnt to blame, the mancs are to blame... they should have given out the tickets just before the travelling fans let etc etc... the mancs gave out the tickets to their fans on the 1st of feburary, thats three weeks to creat forgeries!
Ask Lfty, it wasn't liverpool, it was the fence that killed the juve fans. Hardly think scouses are reflective of all English people though. The rest of England hates them, they are like Tasmaninans to mainland Australians.juventino_4_ever wrote:No the Poms don't kill each other, just opposition fans - eg Juventus.
There are corrupt leagues all over Europe, Germany, Poland and yes even England. It is not an Italian exclusive problem.
Nevetheless I think trying to towel in England and Germany as being corrupt is ridiculous. What evidence do you base this on? The referee in germany who was fixing div 2 games.? Hardly comparable to what went on in Italy. As far as I know or can remember, there is little or no evidence of any corruption in England, bar Bruce Grobellar, some 15 years ago and the betting scandal in 64 and once again it was merely individuals acting in their own interests. Hardly match-fixing on a large scale, involving the biggest clubs in the country, like what happened in Italy. Dont pass the buck and try and tell me that this sort of thing happens everywhere else, becuase it simply doesn't. Italian Football would be light years ahead of any other footballing organisation in terms of corruption and match-fixing. What I find really amusing is that many Italians simply cannot put their hands up and admit this to be true, rather try and drag down other leagues too. Saddest thing is, this is not the first time it has happened and it probably wont be the last.
Big Cheif... getting a bit emotional there... its ok... I know your probably still cut from various injustices in soccer (from your perspective)... but you should really try to get over it, I mean Italy are world champions and Liverpool ARE the most successful club to come out of Brtain... it must be hard for you to fathom.
Whats more its funny how you try to put words in my mouth as to back your argument... can you not justify your argument without trying to put words into my mouth? hilarious.
I think if you ask most Liverpool fans, they recognise the importance of that disastous event and have taken their fair share of responsibilty for it... did you not see the memorial of that event when they played in the quarters in 2005? then again that wouldnt fit into your argument, ignorance is bliss. and yea the Juve fans ran cos they were scared and couldnt fight, like most eyetalians as you implied, which is hilarious... 1. what was the number of Liverpool fans compared to that of the Juve fans, oh thats right the Juve fans were totally outnumbered, they should stand around and get stomped right?? good call 2. have seen actually seen footage of ultras in Italy, i would say all things being equal they could hold their ground pretty well.
As for match fixing and italy being light years ahead... refer to the statement above about ignorance. not that is any defence for eyetalian football, of course its wrong that what goes on, but what do you expect from money and power hungry clubs... they try to gain the same advantage as big multinational in the business world. whats funny is all this crap goes on Italy and we can still win the world cup... Englands golden generation cant even get past the quarter-finals of any major competition! if the eyetalian league is light years ahead in corruption, the england national team is light years ahead in mediocrity.
To finish this rant off, everything I have said on here is bantar mainly aimed at manu4life because he unlike heros like yourself can handle it without having a big f.ucking whinge.
Whats more its funny how you try to put words in my mouth as to back your argument... can you not justify your argument without trying to put words into my mouth? hilarious.
I think if you ask most Liverpool fans, they recognise the importance of that disastous event and have taken their fair share of responsibilty for it... did you not see the memorial of that event when they played in the quarters in 2005? then again that wouldnt fit into your argument, ignorance is bliss. and yea the Juve fans ran cos they were scared and couldnt fight, like most eyetalians as you implied, which is hilarious... 1. what was the number of Liverpool fans compared to that of the Juve fans, oh thats right the Juve fans were totally outnumbered, they should stand around and get stomped right?? good call 2. have seen actually seen footage of ultras in Italy, i would say all things being equal they could hold their ground pretty well.
As for match fixing and italy being light years ahead... refer to the statement above about ignorance. not that is any defence for eyetalian football, of course its wrong that what goes on, but what do you expect from money and power hungry clubs... they try to gain the same advantage as big multinational in the business world. whats funny is all this crap goes on Italy and we can still win the world cup... Englands golden generation cant even get past the quarter-finals of any major competition! if the eyetalian league is light years ahead in corruption, the england national team is light years ahead in mediocrity.
To finish this rant off, everything I have said on here is bantar mainly aimed at manu4life because he unlike heros like yourself can handle it without having a big f.ucking whinge.
I'm just bantering back mate. I've lived in england for 4 years and seen first hand real hardcore Liverpool supporters try and pass the buck for Heysel, blaming everyone and everything else, but themselves. Hence, i find it ironic, you declaring that "the mancs" as you so eloquently put it, were 100% to blame for the incident in Lille. You personally might accept that Liverpool were in part responsible for the events of that night, i dont know, but given the history I still wouldn't go playing the blame game for what happened in Lille. Yes the italian comment was a cheap shot, but hey so was the tear gas comment, so I see it as 1-1 all.
Your comments about Liverpool being the most successful club in Britain and Itlay winning the World Cup have no relevance here, seeing as I never stated anything to suggest the contrary and never argued against them. Why you bring them up I don't know?
The memorial is organised by the club and the powers that be. Based on my experiences, I dont think that it is totally reflective of the fans beliefs on the incident. Dont get me wrong, alot of fans feel terrible for what happened and think its terrible that someone should die, simply going to a football match. However, there is a large section of liverpool fans, particularly the hardliners who refuse to take responsibilty for what happened. Its simple, the Liverpool hooligans kicked off the violence, which led to the deaths, yes the wall fell, yes the juve fans ran, yes the stadium was inadequate and barely fit for a tiddlywinks championship, but those Liverpool fans need to put their hands up and admit they played their part.
Likewise, supporters of the Italian football should be able to freely admit that their national league has been tarnished corruption and not attempt to suggest that match-fixing goes on in other leagues with clearly no evidence of this. I'm not gonna get on my moral high-horse, because honestly under the right circumstances if I felt I could profit from rigging a match, I probably would. I just dont like people trying to justify the actions of one corrupt sporting body by implicating other innocent bodies.
Yeah Italy won the World Cup, congrats, they were the best team, but this is irrelevant to what I was posting about. And besides aren't you Australian anyway?
Seeing as you like banter so much heres some for you, What's the shortest book in the world? Italian War Heroes Vol 1.
[/b]
Your comments about Liverpool being the most successful club in Britain and Itlay winning the World Cup have no relevance here, seeing as I never stated anything to suggest the contrary and never argued against them. Why you bring them up I don't know?
The memorial is organised by the club and the powers that be. Based on my experiences, I dont think that it is totally reflective of the fans beliefs on the incident. Dont get me wrong, alot of fans feel terrible for what happened and think its terrible that someone should die, simply going to a football match. However, there is a large section of liverpool fans, particularly the hardliners who refuse to take responsibilty for what happened. Its simple, the Liverpool hooligans kicked off the violence, which led to the deaths, yes the wall fell, yes the juve fans ran, yes the stadium was inadequate and barely fit for a tiddlywinks championship, but those Liverpool fans need to put their hands up and admit they played their part.
Likewise, supporters of the Italian football should be able to freely admit that their national league has been tarnished corruption and not attempt to suggest that match-fixing goes on in other leagues with clearly no evidence of this. I'm not gonna get on my moral high-horse, because honestly under the right circumstances if I felt I could profit from rigging a match, I probably would. I just dont like people trying to justify the actions of one corrupt sporting body by implicating other innocent bodies.
Yeah Italy won the World Cup, congrats, they were the best team, but this is irrelevant to what I was posting about. And besides aren't you Australian anyway?
Seeing as you like banter so much heres some for you, What's the shortest book in the world? Italian War Heroes Vol 1.
[/b]nope Im Eyetalian.
love the bantar... too bad i heard that Italian war hero joke when I was in year 8...
of course hardcore Liverpool fans will think they did nothing wrong... whats more important is the club and general public think that it was wrong... hardcore supporters beliefs should be taken so seriosuly... I mean im a Laziale through and through and joke about Facism and that, but no way am I a facist nor bleieve that such a belief is right.
I only bought up the Italy and Liverpool successes because your posts implied some sort of bias against them...
if you took any notice of the details of the eyetalian scandal you would see that there no hard evidence convicting them either. no money changing hands, no one cauight red handed or anything... it was based on heresay and phone taps that were orgnaised by the president of the only big club not to get in trouble!!! (Inter's president Massimo Moratti). that itself implies corruption i guess... but im not trying to say what goes is right, all im saying is that your ignorance is hilarious!
i tell you what i dnt like people pointing out Italy as a disgrace and disregarding other countries who have done wrong as you do. germany was only second division match fixing, transfer bungs dnt count etc etc... that makes it alright and italy the devil right? you say Italy is light years ahead in curruption, as The Kop about the Greek league!!! thats jsut one example.
to get back to the point, i think if mancs forged tickets and took seats from their fellow supporters who in turn busted through the turnstiles... they have to be partly responsible for the shambles... just like Liverpool supporters have to be responsible for everything they have done wrong in the past.
love the bantar... too bad i heard that Italian war hero joke when I was in year 8...
of course hardcore Liverpool fans will think they did nothing wrong... whats more important is the club and general public think that it was wrong... hardcore supporters beliefs should be taken so seriosuly... I mean im a Laziale through and through and joke about Facism and that, but no way am I a facist nor bleieve that such a belief is right.
I only bought up the Italy and Liverpool successes because your posts implied some sort of bias against them...
if you took any notice of the details of the eyetalian scandal you would see that there no hard evidence convicting them either. no money changing hands, no one cauight red handed or anything... it was based on heresay and phone taps that were orgnaised by the president of the only big club not to get in trouble!!! (Inter's president Massimo Moratti). that itself implies corruption i guess... but im not trying to say what goes is right, all im saying is that your ignorance is hilarious!
i tell you what i dnt like people pointing out Italy as a disgrace and disregarding other countries who have done wrong as you do. germany was only second division match fixing, transfer bungs dnt count etc etc... that makes it alright and italy the devil right? you say Italy is light years ahead in curruption, as The Kop about the Greek league!!! thats jsut one example.
to get back to the point, i think if mancs forged tickets and took seats from their fellow supporters who in turn busted through the turnstiles... they have to be partly responsible for the shambles... just like Liverpool supporters have to be responsible for everything they have done wrong in the past.
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The one and only
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i dont know were you get this romanista filth thing from champ i may support them in italy but i am a manchester united boy through and through buddyLFTWNG11 wrote:how did you know I wrist off to Lazio walking onto the pitch?!?!? thats crazy man, your like telepathic or something...
just a side note, you will see the answer to your question in my last post on this thread to manu4life you piece of romanista filth.
and to the whole talepathic thing bro if you wanna admit that you bat off to lazio when they walk out the tunnel be my guest
just stick to giving people shit with your typing skills
[/b]I speak nothing but the truth
Exactly, which was my point in the first place, that I found your post hypocritical when you are a pool supporter, felt you needed to be reminded of some home truths. You have to remember that alot of the time people who forge tickets and buy tickets to different sections that they attempt to sit in are not even supporters of the club. Just hooligans looking to make a nice little earner irrespective of the clubs involved and the fact there is far more money to be made in european games.LFTWNG11 wrote: to get back to the point, i think if mancs forged tickets and took seats from their fellow supporters who in turn busted through the turnstiles... they have to be partly responsible for the shambles... just like Liverpool supporters have to be responsible for everything they have done wrong in the past.
Links showing contact between presidents, managers and referees is not little evidence. Under no cicrumstances should referees and presidents come into contact. What were they discussing? The Weather? The validity of fascism as a political ideology? Or maybe the Milan President was just shouting them all $10,000 watches to say well done for the unbias and impartiality that they demonstrated? Whos being ignorant now?
My ignorance is hilarious and here you are trying to tell me that nothing went on.
Btw, as far as I know the whole thing was uncovered by a criminal investigation by the Naples Prosecution Officer, which tapped phone calls between the juve general manger and a referee. Moratti is a director of telecom Italia, yes, but he did not launch the investigation and his involvement is inconsequential. The match-fixing was still going on, whether he assisted the effort to uncover it or not.
Transfer bungs are wrong, so is a 2nd div referee on the take, but like I have said before, these are merely individuals, not widescale corruption. The level of the offences are also different, transfer bungs-matchfixing is like assault-murder 1 or Mark Waugh-Hanse Cronje.
Nice one mate, but I dont support England, I support Australia. See unlike some people when I migrate to a country, I adopt their culture and customs and become one of their citizens. I don't enjoy all the luxuries, benefits and securities that come with living in the greatest country on earth and then pledge allegiance to a former homeland and claim to be of that nationality. If I loved that other country so much I would go and live there permanently.juventino_4_ever wrote:Or for a shorter book, see England's football triumphs, Euro 68 and beyond.
sorry manc filthThe one and only wrote:i dont know were you get this romanista filth thing from champ i may support them in italy but i am a manchester united boy through and through buddyLFTWNG11 wrote:how did you know I wrist off to Lazio walking onto the pitch?!?!? thats crazy man, your like telepathic or something...
just a side note, you will see the answer to your question in my last post on this thread to manu4life you piece of romanista filth.
and to the whole talepathic thing bro if you wanna admit that you bat off to lazio when they walk out the tunnel be my guest
just stick to giving people cabernet with your typing skills
i wasnt being hypocritical... i was merely stating my opinion... was I at Heysel stomping out Juve supporters was I??Big_Chief wrote:Exactly, which was my point in the first place, that I found your post hypocritical when you are a pool supporter, felt you needed to be reminded of some home truths. You have to remember that alot of the time people who forge tickets and buy tickets to different sections that they attempt to sit in are not even supporters of the club. Just hooligans looking to make a nice little earner irrespective of the clubs involved and the fact there is far more money to be made in european games.LFTWNG11 wrote: to get back to the point, i think if mancs forged tickets and took seats from their fellow supporters who in turn busted through the turnstiles... they have to be partly responsible for the shambles... just like Liverpool supporters have to be responsible for everything they have done wrong in the past.
Links showing contact between presidents, managers and referees is not little evidence. Under no cicrumstances should referees and presidents come into contact. What were they discussing? The Weather? The validity of fascism as a political ideology? Or maybe the Milan President was just shouting them all $10,000 watches to say well done for the unbias and impartiality that they demonstrated? Whos being ignorant now?
My ignorance is hilarious and here you are trying to tell me that nothing went on.
Btw, as far as I know the whole thing was uncovered by a criminal investigation by the Naples Prosecution Officer, which tapped phone calls between the juve general manger and a referee. Moratti is a director of telecom Italia, yes, but he did not launch the investigation and his involvement is inconsequential. The match-fixing was still going on, whether he assisted the effort to uncover it or not.
Transfer bungs are wrong, so is a 2nd div referee on the take, but like I have said before, these are merely individuals, not widescale corruption. The level of the offences are also different, transfer bungs-matchfixing is like assault-murder 1 or Mark Waugh-Hanse Cronje.
where did I say nothing went on? Im saying that there isnt hard evidence... all that stuff you go on about is heresay... and your trying to tell me Moratti as a director of telecom could not have influenced or instigated the investigation?? tripping... but i dnt think you udnerstand what im saying... obviously something corrupt went on BUT there wasnt much hard evidence, whihc means in court of law it would have been hard to prove what they were convicted for, yet these principles werent really adhered to in the calciopoli... alot of substantial evidence and heresay, which is bad enough anyway because a conflict of interest not only implies there to be no conflict, but it has to be seen from the outside as no conflict, whcih was obvisouly not the case... but still no solid evidence. I dont see police arresting and getting convictions on heresay... thats my point. so again you need to put words into my mouth to back up your argument.
if i was you, i wouldnt support england niether Big_Chief!
I'm not putting words in your mouth, you said there was no hard evidence, etc. etc. I think the obvious implication is that there is no proof of actual match fixing, hence it didn't occur. I disagree on that as I have stated.
This is my last post on this matter so I'll make my position clear on two issues. The Man U-Lille one and the Italian Football one.
First of all, if i supported a club whose fans were reponsible for 39 deaths and all British teams being removed from European competitions for years, I wouldn't go blaming other clubs fans for crowd trouble and putting shit on mancs. I mean seriously, you can't possibly have a go at mancs and suggest they were to blame for what happened at Lille and not expect them to bring up Heysel? Are you serious? Its like Charles Manson saying to Ted Bundy, you're a murderer and not expecting poor Ted to give it back to Charlie. Obviously, you are not personally involved, but get real mate, you blame my clubs supporters for one thing and I'll bite back with your clubs supporters faults, its simple.
As for Italian Football, it is by far the most corrupt league in the world, because it does not happen at the lower end of the scale, but rather because it beginds from the top down. I cant think of any other major league in Europe that has consistently seen clubs forcefully relegated because of match fixing, bar the Serie A. Of course there are isolated incidents in other countries, but these generally involve individuals. This is what I stated before and you rebutted by talking about Moratti's involvement etc. etc.
Moratti didnt instigate the investigation as I have stated which is fact. He was a director, not the president and like most companies there would be a number of other directors on the board also. I dont think there is a conflict of interest, considering Moratti represents only one vote on the board. I would imagine like any telecommunications company in the world, if police want to investigate suspicious phone calls, you are at their mercy and must offer full transparency. Hence, the moratti factor is a non-issue. Even, hypothetically speaking, he was pulling the strings that uncovered it, does that mean he is to blame or those involved?
Harping on about no hard evidence and moratti's involvement seems to me like you are trying to exonerate the guilty parties. If this is not the case and you are doing so merely to highlight these facts, they are moot points and irrelevant to your initial argument that Italian football is no more corrupt than other European leagues (I think this is what you were arguing, I find it difficult to read where you stand, considering you diverge so much throughout your posts).
Ultimately, there probably wasn't as much evidence as I'm sure those involved in the case would have liked, but this was reflected in the leniancy of the punishments.
Furthermore, I think we can both agree that the clubs involved were acting inappropriately and deserved everything they got.
This is not an anti-italian football rant, I enjoy italian football immensly, particuarly the technical aspect which is far superior to that of many other European Leagues. However, no one who follows the game can possibly suggest that the level of corruption in the league hasn't seriously damaged its reputation and the Serie A scandal is incomparable to any other incidents that have occured in other major European leagues.
This is my last post on this matter so I'll make my position clear on two issues. The Man U-Lille one and the Italian Football one.
First of all, if i supported a club whose fans were reponsible for 39 deaths and all British teams being removed from European competitions for years, I wouldn't go blaming other clubs fans for crowd trouble and putting shit on mancs. I mean seriously, you can't possibly have a go at mancs and suggest they were to blame for what happened at Lille and not expect them to bring up Heysel? Are you serious? Its like Charles Manson saying to Ted Bundy, you're a murderer and not expecting poor Ted to give it back to Charlie. Obviously, you are not personally involved, but get real mate, you blame my clubs supporters for one thing and I'll bite back with your clubs supporters faults, its simple.
As for Italian Football, it is by far the most corrupt league in the world, because it does not happen at the lower end of the scale, but rather because it beginds from the top down. I cant think of any other major league in Europe that has consistently seen clubs forcefully relegated because of match fixing, bar the Serie A. Of course there are isolated incidents in other countries, but these generally involve individuals. This is what I stated before and you rebutted by talking about Moratti's involvement etc. etc.
Moratti didnt instigate the investigation as I have stated which is fact. He was a director, not the president and like most companies there would be a number of other directors on the board also. I dont think there is a conflict of interest, considering Moratti represents only one vote on the board. I would imagine like any telecommunications company in the world, if police want to investigate suspicious phone calls, you are at their mercy and must offer full transparency. Hence, the moratti factor is a non-issue. Even, hypothetically speaking, he was pulling the strings that uncovered it, does that mean he is to blame or those involved?
Harping on about no hard evidence and moratti's involvement seems to me like you are trying to exonerate the guilty parties. If this is not the case and you are doing so merely to highlight these facts, they are moot points and irrelevant to your initial argument that Italian football is no more corrupt than other European leagues (I think this is what you were arguing, I find it difficult to read where you stand, considering you diverge so much throughout your posts).
Ultimately, there probably wasn't as much evidence as I'm sure those involved in the case would have liked, but this was reflected in the leniancy of the punishments.
Furthermore, I think we can both agree that the clubs involved were acting inappropriately and deserved everything they got.
This is not an anti-italian football rant, I enjoy italian football immensly, particuarly the technical aspect which is far superior to that of many other European Leagues. However, no one who follows the game can possibly suggest that the level of corruption in the league hasn't seriously damaged its reputation and the Serie A scandal is incomparable to any other incidents that have occured in other major European leagues.
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aussie_ascoli
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If you support a small club in italy, your absolutly digusted. What people haven't understood is that when big clubs plays things to their advantage its effects are massive. For example no-one realises that the most affected clubs are the small ones. All this "we should of won the league" and only "juve were persecuted" is crap. Cause their were clubs who got relegated cause of the big clubs, think of the finacial and stautual loss those clubs incure, while juve only gets a season in B. Small clubs could of got financially ruined cause of this.Big_Chief wrote:Likewise, supporters of the Italian football should be able to freely admit that their national league has been tarnished corruption and not attempt to suggest that match-fixing goes on in other leagues with clearly no evidence of this. I'm not gonna get on my moral high-horse, because honestly under the right circumstances if I felt I could profit from rigging a match, I probably would. I just dont like people trying to justify the actions of one corrupt sporting body by implicating other innocent bodies.
Thats why a supporter of a small club is always the first to say, the big clubs tarinished italian football, but the big club supporters are ignorant to it. So its not really we don't freely admit, its the big club supporters don't want to admit.
this wouldnt have happen if lille had listened 2 united request of being moved to a bigger stadium. how can u forge tickets when they get scanned through a comp, obv this means that there staduim wasnt up 2 standards, and in europe lefty it is normal to get tickets for events way in advance... im sure thats wat happen in the WC didnt it? gettin tickets like 2 months in advance? but i dun c ya complainin bout that, instead u gotta say ur 2 cents and wat a weak answer it was.
but anyways moving on, all done with now UEFA threw out there claim in regards to giggsys goal, but looks like they have got themselfs in trouble cause UEFA are lookin into the incidend with the man utd supporters and how lille tried 2 walk off
but anyways moving on, all done with now UEFA threw out there claim in regards to giggsys goal, but looks like they have got themselfs in trouble cause UEFA are lookin into the incidend with the man utd supporters and how lille tried 2 walk off
that has nuffin to do with this topic, but i guess thats all u write when u know that u got nothing logical to say in terms of responding to someones topic. wat big chief posted is 100% correct... look in ur own backyard b4 u accuse othersLFTWNG11 wrote:Big Cheif... getting a bit emotional there... its ok... I know your probably still cut from various injustices in soccer (from your perspective)... but you should really try to get over it, I mean Italy are world champions and Liverpool ARE the most successful club to come out of Brtain... it must be hard for you to fathom.
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Apology accepted we can be friends againLFTWNG11 wrote:sorry manc filthThe one and only wrote:i dont know were you get this romanista filth thing from champ i may support them in italy but i am a manchester united boy through and through buddyLFTWNG11 wrote:how did you know I wrist off to Lazio walking onto the pitch?!?!? thats crazy man, your like telepathic or something...
just a side note, you will see the answer to your question in my last post on this thread to manu4life you piece of romanista filth.
and to the whole talepathic thing bro if you wanna admit that you bat off to lazio when they walk out the tunnel be my guest
just stick to giving people cabernet with your typing skills
I speak nothing but the truth
of courseThe one and only wrote:Apology accepted we can be friends againLFTWNG11 wrote:sorry manc filthThe one and only wrote:i dont know were you get this romanista filth thing from champ i may support them in italy but i am a manchester united boy through and through buddyLFTWNG11 wrote:how did you know I wrist off to Lazio walking onto the pitch?!?!? thats crazy man, your like telepathic or something...
just a side note, you will see the answer to your question in my last post on this thread to manu4life you piece of romanista filth.
and to the whole talepathic thing bro if you wanna admit that you bat off to lazio when they walk out the tunnel be my guest
just stick to giving people cabernet with your typing skills
i already explain the point of that...MUFCBOY wrote:that has nuffin to do with this topic, but i guess thats all u write when u know that u got nothing logical to say in terms of responding to someones topic. wat big chief posted is 100% correct... look in ur own backyard b4 u accuse othersLFTWNG11 wrote:Big Cheif... getting a bit emotional there... its ok... I know your probably still cut from various injustices in soccer (from your perspective)... but you should really try to get over it, I mean Italy are world champions and Liverpool ARE the most successful club to come out of Brtain... it must be hard for you to fathom.
You underestimate the Moratti factor.... that being said I agree that Italian football has disgraced itself somewhat, but to say we are the most corrupt, because what has jsut happened is BS. They catch them and punish them... obvioulsy not to the extent that most people (because of lack of evidence), so what more do you want?Big_Chief wrote:I'm not putting words in your mouth, you said there was no hard evidence, etc. etc. I think the obvious implication is that there is no proof of actual match fixing, hence it didn't occur. I disagree on that as I have stated.
This is my last post on this matter so I'll make my position clear on two issues. The Man U-Lille one and the Italian Football one.
First of all, if i supported a club whose fans were reponsible for 39 deaths and all British teams being removed from European competitions for years, I wouldn't go blaming other clubs fans for crowd trouble and putting cabernet on mancs. I mean seriously, you can't possibly have a go at mancs and suggest they were to blame for what happened at Lille and not expect them to bring up Heysel? Are you serious? Its like Charles Manson saying to Ted Bundy, you're a murderer and not expecting poor Ted to give it back to Charlie. Obviously, you are not personally involved, but get real mate, you blame my clubs supporters for one thing and I'll bite back with your clubs supporters faults, its simple.
As for Italian Football, it is by far the most corrupt league in the world, because it does not happen at the lower end of the scale, but rather because it beginds from the top down. I cant think of any other major league in Europe that has consistently seen clubs forcefully relegated because of match fixing, bar the Serie A. Of course there are isolated incidents in other countries, but these generally involve individuals. This is what I stated before and you rebutted by talking about Moratti's involvement etc. etc.
Moratti didnt instigate the investigation as I have stated which is fact. He was a director, not the president and like most companies there would be a number of other directors on the board also. I dont think there is a conflict of interest, considering Moratti represents only one vote on the board. I would imagine like any telecommunications company in the world, if police want to investigate suspicious phone calls, you are at their mercy and must offer full transparency. Hence, the moratti factor is a non-issue. Even, hypothetically speaking, he was pulling the strings that uncovered it, does that mean he is to blame or those involved?
Harping on about no hard evidence and moratti's involvement seems to me like you are trying to exonerate the guilty parties. If this is not the case and you are doing so merely to highlight these facts, they are moot points and irrelevant to your initial argument that Italian football is no more corrupt than other European leagues (I think this is what you were arguing, I find it difficult to read where you stand, considering you diverge so much throughout your posts).
Ultimately, there probably wasn't as much evidence as I'm sure those involved in the case would have liked, but this was reflected in the leniancy of the punishments.
Furthermore, I think we can both agree that the clubs involved were acting inappropriately and deserved everything they got.
This is not an anti-italian football rant, I enjoy italian football immensly, particuarly the technical aspect which is far superior to that of many other European Leagues. However, no one who follows the game can possibly suggest that the level of corruption in the league hasn't seriously damaged its reputation and the Serie A scandal is incomparable to any other incidents that have occured in other major European leagues.
Like I said... was I at Heysel? How does that make me responsible and therefore not allowed to expres smy opinion on the Lille-Manc game... it wasn't the "The club" who stomped out Juve supporters, it was the hooligans who follow the club, the same type of hooligans who forged ManUSA tickets to overpack that part of the ground. So if we go by hwat you say about "the club" being repsonsible, then your stating ManUSA is at fault for the hooligans who follow them around and thus whop forged the tickets.
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King Henry Returns
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Big_Chief wrote:Nice one mate, but I dont support England, I support Australia. See unlike some people when I migrate to a country, I adopt their culture and customs and become one of their citizens. I don't enjoy all the luxuries, benefits and securities that come with living in the greatest country on earth and then pledge allegiance to a former homeland and claim to be of that nationality. If I loved that other country so much I would go and live there permanently.juventino_4_ever wrote:Or for a shorter book, see England's football triumphs, Euro 68 and beyond.
your comment is narrow-minded (arrogant and stupid would be a more accurate description)
Is there a hard and fast rule that should determine nationality? Is being born and raised in one country more important than your blood-line? For example, I know of an intelligent man with French heritage who was born in China but made his home in Australia. He feels Australian by way of citizenship, but French at the same time. He does not consider himself Chinese.
Basically, either you do or do not have a choice. Home, they say, is where the heart is, but let us consider why the heart might beat for another country. I put much of it down to institutional racism and the decades of persecution, which influenced the views of these Australians with foreign family links.
and Nevertheless, what gives ‘Anglo-Australians’ the right to question who Australian-Italians (or anyone else) should support?
If you truely adopted our great counties customs.. then u should b on an AFL or cricket forum.
grow up mate