17a comp is a farce thx Drago

[dragons]

Drago has turned this comp in to a joke as he looks after the 17s and 19s and ovesees the Reserves. Raiders top undefeated all year and loose 5-1 are you serious? the 19s loose 6-0 and then this result as he does what he wants and gets away with it sure they are under 17s but the rest of us are trying to develop and play in the spirit of the comp, not ego tripper!!!
Shall we ALL play our 15/16 17 year olds who are playing up down in the 17s this year and what??

[PhilDunphy]

unfortunately this will continue to occur, if they're age eligible then no one can stop them.

there should be a rule in place that if you decide to play above your age group then you can't come back down. You should only be able to use players from lower age groups to cover for injuries/suspensions or any other legitimate reason, not to bring down for the sake of stealing 3 points and pushing further up the table. makes a mockery of those teams who try to play good football each and every week with the actual boys who were selected.

so much for building for the future

[dragons]

Well said i think thats the message i was trying to potray!!

[AL K HOLIC]

Drago has turned this comp in to a joke as he looks after the 17s and 19s and ovesees the Reserves. Raiders top undefeated all year and loose 5-1 are you serious? the 19s loose 6-0 and then this result as he does what he wants and gets away with it sure they are under 17s but the rest of us are trying to develop and play in the spirit of the comp, not ego tripper!!!
Shall we ALL play our 15/16 17 year olds who are playing up down in the 17s this year and what??

Is he doing what he wants or what the system allows?

Clubs out there scheduling Friday night games so they can drop aged players from higher age groups keeping their coaches happy in both camps allowing them to also play Sunday.

The sooner the FFSA makes a rule that players must be age registered and can only play in that age group, or that a player can only play one age group per round the better imo, but what do I know.

A club who has talent in older ages will drop them the moment the league is out of touch for their team, especially if the one below is there to be won, or to save a team from losing that A league spot.

But I'm sure they all say not our club.

[dragons]

he is playin within the rules buy is it right? In the spirit of what we are all tryin to do in DEVELOP the players or is it about how DRAGO can keep telling everyone how GOOD he is it and feeding his ego while we all sit back and allow it to happen!! Well why dont we all drop eligible 17s when we play super coach and then its back to my original point this 17s league is a FARCE!!!!!!!!

[magic]

Well said Guys! I've recently had some conversations with disgruntled parents who have sons playing at Croydon. They explained that Croydon have a lot of movement between teams week in week out. Thier concerns were that when players come into your team then obviously someone has to miss out. Thier sons have had to sit on the bench while players from other teams get priority. Croydon will argue, and claim that players are moved for "Developement reasons", but , it's hardly developement when players are moved down .
Parents pay a lot of money for thier kids to play at federation level. Surely FFSA have to step in and stop this practice. Playing kids up when needed is fair, but, bringing players down to win games is'nt.
Maybe after three games the player has to stay at the higher level and cant move down.
I wonder how much "player developement" we'll see then ? :?

[AL K HOLIC]

Well said Guys! I've recently had some conversations with disgruntled parents who have sons playing at Croydon. They explained that Croydon have a lot of movement between teams week in week out. Thier concerns were that when players come into your team then obviously someone has to miss out. Thier sons have had to sit on the bench while players from other teams get priority. Croydon will argue, and claim that players are moved for "Developement reasons", but , it's hardly developement when players are moved down .
Parents pay a lot of money for thier kids to play at federation level. Surely FFSA have to step in and stop this practice. Playing kids up when needed is fair, but, bringing players down to win games is'nt.
Maybe after three games the player has to stay at the higher level and cant move down.
I wonder how much "player developement" we'll see then ? :?

Croydon have Friday night games everyweek, however so do CCSC are they both doing the same thing?

As I mentioned one game per round is simple, however that means someone at FFSA would have to look at all team sheets lmao as if.

Players do at times need to return from injury or are simply out of form but we all know it is not the case everytime.

[Reus11]

4 minutes into a game in the u17c's his team were 2-0 down. He subbed off 4 u17c team players and replaced them with u17a's who were on the bench.

[MegaBonus]

dragons


he is playin within the rules buy is it right? In the spirit of what we are all tryin to do in DEVELOP the players

but isnt he developing players by playing them up???? as well as getting thm to play more than 1 game per week....???

plus....

if developmnt is your objective...the score/result shouldnt matter.....

[Željko Jurin]

True, but what about the development of the ones missing out on game time, the 'weaker' ones that were also selected in that team ?

One thing to help stop it, refuse to play Fri night games ...

[johnydep]

Same old cry babies, keep it up fellas. The invitation is still open; come down to a training night at Croydon and speak to the Development coaches.

It's better to get the facts from the source, rather than the wisper and rumour mill.

FYI Friday night our U17's played Metro, we brought 2 U16 players in, that played with 2 newly promoted U16 players, who played with the existing 2 U16 players and 1 U15 player.

Our original U17 squad selection had 5 players promoted to U19's in pre-season, those players occasionally come back to their original team when the U 17's can not bring up players.

On Saturday 5 players from the U17's (a 14, 15 & 3x 16 yo) played in the U19's, alongside the originally promoted U17 players (1x 14 & 2x 16 yo) 2 U19's played in the Reserves next to 2x 16 yo players that started in the 17's went to the 19's & now are regulars in the Reserves.

We've played the White City team, yes it was like playing an U19 squad. So what. It was a good hard game that saw us lose the lead twice & finish 5:6.

Why don't you all spend more time worrying about how your senior teams are traveling

[Armageddon]

If the rules can be used to a clubs advantage then it can happen & does at many clubs.
People don't care about the spirit of the game or development if those magical 3 points are up for grabs,
sad but has & will be the case whilst all people worry about is where their team finishes on the ladder.

[themessenger]

If the rules can be used to a clubs advantage then it can happen & does at many clubs.
People don't care about the spirit of the game or development if those magical 3 points are up for grabs,
sad but has & will be the case whilst all people worry about is where their team finishes on the ladder.

Assuming there is NO Under 17s league next year and junior teams stop at Under 16s - it should be less of a problem.

[Armageddon]

Maybe but it will still go on as long as those 3 points are on the line.
Winning isn't everything , its the only thing to some.

[Stitch This]

Well said Guys! I've recently had some conversations with disgruntled parents who have sons playing at Croydon. They explained that Croydon have a lot of movement between teams week in week out. Thier concerns were that when players come into your team then obviously someone has to miss out. Thier sons have had to sit on the bench while players from other teams get priority. Croydon will argue, and claim that players are moved for "Developement reasons", but , it's hardly developement when players are moved down .
Parents pay a lot of money for thier kids to play at federation level. Surely FFSA have to step in and stop this practice. Playing kids up when needed is fair, but, bringing players down to win games is'nt.
Maybe after three games the player has to stay at the higher level and cant move down.
I wonder how much "player developement" we'll see then ? :?

You realise a lot of this is just on your mind, especially the continued slander against Croydon.

If so many kids are getting benched at Croydon because of players dropping down, why would Croydon have what is probably the highest number of junior teams playing in the FFSA comp?

[AL K HOLIC]

Well said Guys! I've recently had some conversations with disgruntled parents who have sons playing at Croydon. They explained that Croydon have a lot of movement between teams week in week out. Thier concerns were that when players come into your team then obviously someone has to miss out. Thier sons have had to sit on the bench while players from other teams get priority. Croydon will argue, and claim that players are moved for "Developement reasons", but , it's hardly developement when players are moved down .
Parents pay a lot of money for thier kids to play at federation level. Surely FFSA have to step in and stop this practice. Playing kids up when needed is fair, but, bringing players down to win games is'nt.
Maybe after three games the player has to stay at the higher level and cant move down.
I wonder how much "player developement" we'll see then ? :?

You realise a lot of this is just on your mind, especially the continued slander against Croydon.

If so many kids are getting benched at Croydon because of players dropping down, why would Croydon have what is probably the highest number of junior teams playing in the FFSA comp?

they dont get benched they go lower again every team has 1 or 2 jsl teams to accomodate

[Grasshopper]

Same old cry babies, keep it up fellas. The invitation is still open; come down to a training night at Croydon and speak to the Development coaches.

It's better to get the facts from the source, rather than the wisper and rumour mill.

FYI Friday night our U17's played Metro, we brought 2 U16 players in, that played with 2 newly promoted U16 players, who played with the existing 2 U16 players and 1 U15 player.

Our original U17 squad selection had 5 players promoted to U19's in pre-season, those players occasionally come back to their original team when the U 17's can not bring up players.

On Saturday 5 players from the U17's (a 14, 15 & 3x 16 yo) played in the U19's, alongside the originally promoted U17 players (1x 14 & 2x 16 yo) 2 U19's played in the Reserves next to 2x 16 yo players that started in the 17's went to the 19's & now are regulars in the Reserves.

We've played the White City team, yes it was like playing an U19 squad. So what. It was a good hard game that saw us lose the lead twice & finish 5:6.

Why don't you all spend more time worrying about how your senior teams are traveling

;
JD it must be quite satisfying seeing kid play at different age groups and being able to say that " development" is the way coaches justify wanting to win. It makes everything ok because this turmoil is all about perspective.
I have watched a club standby and have a coach pull up players from 2 age groups below in the name of " development". After 1 game he quickly drops them back and looks for another player to see if he can find the magic bullet he is looking for.
What coaches fail to see is that this only create instability for every other team in the club which has a knock on effect. The team that these players come from have to look below for other players, the team that players move up to have 6 on the bench and the reserves team is often given 3 players to play at the expense of game time for players who have trained and
are regular 2nd team players.
If you are serious about junior football, you will look at the other end of the talent squad and put your resources and time into the families who have invested their time and money supporting their kids in the B's and in your case C's by ensuring that is where your programs address deficiencies at this end of the spectrum. You will probably find you will have a larger more loyal supporter base.
All juniors should be treated like valued manners of a team, not just those who are "identified" by coaches looking for already developed players they can poach from their own club in the name of "development".

The perspective that is important here is that of the junior players who are moved down or on the bench to make way for the "development" players. Do they not count or are they just making up numbers and contributing to the finances of the club to develop others.
Show me a coach who brings players up and down when he has a full squad and I will show you a coach who wants to win and calls it " development "
How does a coach justify playing players from other teams who have a bye or play at an earlier or later game when he has 14 players ? Why not develop what you have - or are you incapable or not patient enough because you want to win ?

[MegaBonus]

you are confusing 2 arguments....

1 - all junior plays including B' and C' players are entitled to equality...eg playing time, access to facilities and resources etc etc

&

2 - the dropping down of players to 'win' games


the reality is B' and C' players, with all the 'developmental' resources at a clubs disposal, will hardly ever play first team....

[AL K HOLIC]

There is a difference between dropping players to JSL from JPL in same age group and dropping players that play 15 or 16 to the lower age for whatever reasons.

Injuries and form needs to be handled or rewarded but as I said earlier no player should be allowed to play for two different teams in one round, easy.

[corona]

this topic comes up ever season , clubs will look after there juniors , specially to keep them in Div A , as players will leave to another club to play at the highest level .. as parents are told by some to be seen for SASI or ADEL UTD , you need to play higher and in the best league , so clubs find it hard to keep a player they develope , so these movements will happen , and they happen from U13s to U17s . and we would be blind to say my club doesnt . so Drago dropped some players , good challenge to opposition team . this is life . and will not change unless you bring in once you have played say more than 4 games above you can not move down .

end of the day , everyone wants to win , what ever way , was not long ago a team got caught with over age players . .

[rabbit]

I remember it well..........

[johnydep]

....If you are serious about junior football, you will look at the other end of the talent squad and put your resources and time into the families who have invested their time and money supporting their kids in the B's and in your case C's by ensuring that is where your programs address deficiencies at this end of the spectrum. You will probably find you will have a larger more loyal supporter base.
All juniors should be treated like valued manners of a team, not just those who are "identified" by coaches looking for already developed players they can poach from their own club in the name of "development".....

All clubs, including CKFC, are continually tweaking their football strategy. No one, as far as I'm aware of, do it for any other reason other than to help the club and it's members, and no one has a perfect system.

Our U15 JSL teams were originally allocated into two different leagues, one lower than the other, and all teams including the JPL were structured in order of strength. During the trials, all players and parents were told that there would be player movement between the teams, depending on development, fitness, attitude, etc.

Just before the season started, we were notified by the FFSA that one of the U15JSL leagues had collapsed and that both our U15JSL teams would be in the same league. The Development Coaches discussed what would be the best options for the teams, two options were finalised;

• 1) create two equal JSL teams - we phoned other clubs in the same situation and were advised that this was their course of action.
  2) Rotate two different players each fortnight, thus strengthening the weaker squad, and helping the two JSL2 players develop by playing at a higher level.

Option 1 was the preferred plan, however, it was not for the coaches and the parents. Option 2 became the course of action.

All the required information was discussed with the Coaches and Managers, players and parents were informed by a Dev Coach, but the full details had to come from the team leaders.

If parents or players have issues, the DC's are always approachable at training nights, home games and Senior home games. Several weeks ago, two parents approached the Junior Delegate and told him of their concerns; weakening the stronger JSL team, lack of communication, and to inform him that they had a petition to stop any player movement from "their" team.

Senior home games is an excellent time to discuss and talk football. Every junior team is allocated a home game to run the canteen, this is part of the players commitment to the club, and an excellent opportunity to get to know the club officials and talk with them. Two weeks ago it was the duty of the three U15 teams to take care of the canteen, sadly not one U15 JSL parent came to the game or helped at the canteen. The parents of the JPL team had to take care of the canteen from 11am - 5pm.

We treat all juniors as equals, all as valued members of the club, we identify players from JSL and JPL teams, we assist coaches that ask for assistance, we help players that are going through a rough patch, we run coaching courses for coaches and Monday night development training for any player wanting to improve, move players around to help them improve and get extra game time, we do a lot more and all we ask is that players and parents come to the Senior games and help when it's their turn.

Many hands make light work.

[Željko Jurin]

JSL teams .... a club is damned if they try and do the right thing and have as many kids playing as possible, and then you're damned if you don't have them (eg letting all the kids go and maybe quitting the sport)

[Bomber]

Its all quite simple really. CKFC have had massive injuries and a few player walkouts from the reserves. Others in all grades are sometimes going away with family on holidays, call in sick etc etc. In turn, it has created gaps and therefore opportunitites for players to go up. Our ressies this week had 6/7 players that were originally in the 19s squad. It therefore makes perfect sense that 17's need to play up, 16's play up etc etc. To me that IS development as they are given chances to play up (and reward for persistence).
However when players return from injury, holidays etc, sometimes its necessary for players to return to their original squads. Its bloody hard to level things out with so many changes each week and sometimes squads need tweaking.
What shits me off is uninformed who just sit back and slang shit about a club that know nothing about what actually is required to properly function such a big junior system.

[Stitch This]

All clubs, including CKFC, are continually tweaking their football strategy..............

Many hands make light work.

Good post JD. Unfortunately it will go right over the heads most of the on here.

To hell with 'em I say.

[Stitch This]

I remember it well..........

You could see in Ratten's eyes during the post-match interview, he needs to pull a rabbit out of the hat if he wants to be coaching next year.

Looks like there's a future for you in AFL

[Side Kick]

Drago has turned this comp in to a joke as he looks after the 17s and 19s and ovesees the Reserves. Raiders top undefeated all year and loose 5-1 are you serious? the 19s loose 6-0 and then this result as he does what he wants and gets away with it sure they are under 17s but the rest of us are trying to develop and play in the spirit of the comp, not ego tripper!!!
Shall we ALL play our 15/16 17 year olds who are playing up down in the 17s this year and what??

What are you trying to say here???

What does an u17 result got to do with an u19 result.

Anyone who was at the first game of the season between these 2 clubs would have know white city should have won by the same score, if it were not for the missed changes and some good saves by the raiders keeper, seems this time round the they scored more than they missed.

So the fact raiders hadnt lost a game till the weekend might have been more good luck than anything else

[manutd64]

Drago has turned this comp in to a joke as he looks after the 17s and 19s and ovesees the Reserves. Raiders top undefeated all year and loose 5-1 are you serious? the 19s loose 6-0 and then this result as he does what he wants and gets away with it sure they are under 17s but the rest of us are trying to develop and play in the spirit of the comp, not ego tripper!!!
Shall we ALL play our 15/16 17 year olds who are playing up down in the 17s this year and what??

As long as these lads are the right age you shouldnt be saying anything he is doing nothing wrong not braking the law and i know he isnt the the first coach to do this and as for ego tripper i dont think so he is well respected in the soccer world

[tryhard]

If they are the right age , it doesnt matter where they play - if they are playing up and then come down for a game - no problems - makes everyone else lift their game

[lion66]

I'm jealous. Our club won't even entertain the thought of player movement between jpl and jsl teams. The parents have have to do the junior development themselves.