Round 3

[grandparent]

Sorry I wasnt meaning to be having a go and yes maybe the score may have been different with those other players in but it is good that other players can step up and make a difference. I know the coach was happy after the game and even though the girls didnt get the points they were happy with their effort.

[Granny]

The player in question was named in advance of Friday and I am 100% sure it was a simple mistake.

Furthermore, when you have at least 3 seniors (available) with the same given name it is not uncommon when you do the visual check the names do blend in and it was a hot day.

People seem quick to jump down peoples throats over this. I am not involved in the club other than as a dad but they are just people with kids playing / or are genuinely interested in advancing the women's game. So how about a bit of slack?[/quote]


Yes , lets make excuses...........oh for goodness sake, same names !!! and a hot day, what do you mean " hot day" ? WTF !! So the person filling out the Team Sheet was fatigued from the heat. I've never heard such pathetic excuses before. Someone stuffed up, take responsability.........

[Caretaker Coach]

The player in question was named in advance of Friday and I am 100% sure it was a simple mistake.

Furthermore, when you have at least 3 seniors (available) with the same given name it is not uncommon when you do the visual check the names do blend in and it was a hot day.

People seem quick to jump down peoples throats over this. I am not involved in the club other than as a dad but they are just people with kids playing / or are genuinely interested in advancing the women's game. So how about a bit of slack?

Yes , lets make excuses...........oh for goodness sake, same names !!! and a hot day, what do you mean " hot day" ? WTF !! So the person filling out the Team Sheet was fatigued from the heat. I've never heard such pathetic excuses before. Someone stuffed up, take responsability.........[/quote]

+1
you played a player who wasnt even on the team sheet - at Premier League level ??? no excuses ! no exceptions !

[nanstar]

Hot day? it got to a max of 28 degrees yesterday lol. Hardly hot enough to be affecting managers and coaches.

[pc9999]

Yes , lets make excuses...........oh for goodness sake, same names !!! and a hot day, what do you mean " hot day" ? WTF !! So the person filling out the Team Sheet was fatigued from the heat. I've never heard such pathetic excuses before. Someone stuffed up, take responsability.........

[/quote]
Why not get over yourself.
I can see the frustration of people who are really interested in the game yet are get frustrated by those who quick to persecute and make comments such as above.

Someone above said 1 week people are ripping into FFSA and now the same are applauding them.

No matter what is said someone will always have done the job correctly 100% of the time right? BS!!!!!.

Well I have faced this filling in team sheets while leaning on one knee struggling to read registration numbers in the sun, while trying to find a linesman for the half, etc etc. It isnt easy and yes I tried filling it in ahead of time only to have to rewrite it due to no shows and replacements and yes mistakes do happen .

I think anyone who has tried to help has had these days.

So why not get off your ivory tower and be appreciative of anyone who is prepared to help out just for the privelege of facing this sort of shit.
WTF bother at all.

What's done is done.

There is no reasoning or rationalising with some people it seems.

FWIW I am not advocating avoiding the stated penalty.

[southern]

Hey pc you are taking it too personal!
It's just the way it is, Uni blew it for themselves, that's all! I think you are reading too much into this, there are no persecutions. It's just funny when ppl come across as pretentious and full of themselves and they promise players spots in the W League and then they can't even fill in a team sheet... That said, they are still super favs for the double and as soon as they'll learn to fill in a team sheet they'll win every game

[John Cena]

dont think TJ would be very impressed with the team manager, anyway take your first loss uni and learn from it

[juniorsupporter]

It's the rule and everyone should have to abide by it. I don't doubt that it was an honest mistake. And unfortunately a well-fought, hard- earned victory was negated. I don't think it's fair to say that FFSA would let that slide from any club. Nobody at Uni will be pleased with the outcome. Let's all just move on and double check team sheets. Not one of us is infallible.

[Granny]

Yes , lets make excuses...........oh for goodness sake, same names !!! and a hot day, what do you mean " hot day" ? WTF !! So the person filling out the Team Sheet was fatigued from the heat. I've never heard such pathetic excuses before. Someone stuffed up, take responsability.........

Why not get over yourself.
I can see the frustration of people who are really interested in the game yet are get frustrated by those who quick to persecute and make comments such as above.

Someone above said 1 week people are ripping into FFSA and now the same are applauding them.

No matter what is said someone will always have done the job correctly 100% of the time right? BS!!!!!.

Well I have faced this filling in team sheets while leaning on one knee struggling to read registration numbers in the sun, while trying to find a linesman for the half, etc etc. It isnt easy and yes I tried filling it in ahead of time only to have to rewrite it due to no shows and replacements and yes mistakes do happen .

I think anyone who has tried to help has had these days.

So why not get off your ivory tower and be appreciative of anyone who is prepared to help out just for the privelege of facing this sort of cabernet.
WTF bother at all.

What's done is done.

There is no reasoning or rationalising with some people it seems.

FWIW I am not advocating avoiding the stated penalty.[/quote]




You know what, to make an honest mistake and to admit it , “Yes, I stuffed up, it was my fault, I take the blame” is the right thing, the adult thing, the mature thing to do.
They don’t have to like it though. Just stand up and be accountable.

Yes I’ve had those days also but I didn’t go blaming anyone or anything but myself.

I’m not pointing the finger to blame anyone, this isn’t a witch hunt, just saying the obvious………..if someone made a mistake, then admit it.
And they would also earn a lot of respect doing so.


Now, with regards to the comments I made before, they still stand……….hot day…..

[John Cena]

lets just hope that uni dont miss out winning the league by 3 pts and goal difference

[beaches]

I will stand corrected, but I heard (I think) that goal difference will not apply this year??? Points only!!

[Easy Tiger]

That's right, no goal difference.

[Drusetta]

On Sporting Pulse results/tables goals for and against is not displayed in both Premier and Reserves leagues.

There is also the Premier League review after 9 rounds - which could see changes for ther second half of the season.

[Bagman]

Correct me if I'm wrong , but it seems to me to be a MASSIVE reward to MUWFC to recieve 3 points for a game just because the person who filled in the opposition players card got a name wrong ( or missed one or whatever ).

No points for Uni - fair enough - rules are rules and they would be the same for any team in any div. ( as Uni already know )

But for Metro to have a 4-1 'Pumping' turned into a pretty vital 3 points , it takes them from 1 point after 2 games - to 4..

They shouldn't be rewarded for a player card error from Uni. Uni should be penalised , thats it.!

Uni should loose 3 points ( which they have ) Metro should not get them !!

IMO.

[Drusetta]

Good Point Bagman.

One option is to have names and numbers on shirts - and use a registration booklet as a "once of" Team Sheet for the season, like it's done in tournaments.
A few teams already have names and numbers, so as long as they're registered (which can be checked afterwards if need be) all should be okay.
There'd be no team sheets required for each match. The referee could simply record goalscorers, cards and injuries on one form , checked and co-signed by each club at the end of the game.
Also, as there is free movement between Premier League and Reserves, who cares what player is on a "list"; again as long as they're registered.
Even for insurance purposes - if the player is registered then their number (and therefore name) will be recorded as an injury on the day.
Shouldn't be that big if an issue in overage competitions.

And if people really want to cheat (which happens more often than we care to admit at junior level); they will find a way.

[snow white]

Correct me if I'm wrong , but it seems to me to be a MASSIVE reward to MUWFC to recieve 3 points for a game just because the person who filled in the opposition players card got a name wrong ( or missed one or whatever ).

No points for Uni - fair enough - rules are rules and they would be the same for any team in any div. ( as Uni already know )

But for Metro to have a 4-1 'Pumping' turned into a pretty vital 3 points , it takes them from 1 point after 2 games - to 4..

They shouldn't be rewarded for a player card error from Uni. Uni should be penalised , thats it.!

Uni should loose 3 points ( which they have ) Metro should not get them !!

IMO.

Uni played a player who wasn't eligible to play (ineligible in the sense she wasn't on the team sheet), hence the forfeit. The rule is longstanding and the penalty is appropriate. Think about the consequences of allowing teams to field ineligible players and only copping a slap on the wrist as a penalty.

The actual scoreline or even who played better is irrelevant. Whether MUWFC got pumped or not shouldn't come into it. If Uni had won the game 1 nil with an off-side goal that was given and scored by a player who was not eligible to play, how would your logic apply?


To answer your original statement though, to win a game, you obviously must outscore your opponent, but the other half of the equation is that you must outscore them within the rules of the game. Uni didn't meet this criteria, hence forfeit the victory.

The only people to blame here is Uni ... not the referee who apparently spotted the error, the Federation who applied the actual rule, or MUWFC who were the beneficiary of the error, and who most likely, would have much preferred to win in normal circumstances as its not their fault they are faced in this uncomfortable position of winning, but knowing they lost on the pitch.

Time to move on ... and a lesson to all clubs, particuarly at Prem level, to follow the rules of the game, simple as they are in this case.

[nanstar]

Good Point Bagman.

One option is to have names and numbers on shirts - and use a registration booklet as a "once of" Team Sheet for the season, like it's done in tournaments.
A few teams already have names and numbers, so as long as they're registered (which can be checked afterwards if need be) all should be okay.
There'd be no team sheets required for each match. The referee could simply record goalscorers, cards and injuries on one form , checked and co-signed by each club at the end of the game.
Also, as there is free movement between Premier League and Reserves, who cares what player is on a "list"; again as long as they're registered.
Even for insurance purposes - if the player is registered then their number (and therefore name) will be recorded as an injury on the day.
Shouldn't be that big if an issue in overage competitions.

And if people really want to cheat (which happens more often than we care to admit at junior level); they will find a way.

Team sheets will always be necessary. EG: That Uni player who was not on the team sheet could theoretically rock up and play in div 3 next week and the federation wouldn't know. I assume the rule stands that you can't go down from prems to a lower div at your club unless it is the next in line (eg prems can go down to div 3 if they don't have reserves, div 1 or 2 teams)

Also, it would make no sense to give metro zero points for that game. That would be like saying, although you broke the rules, we are still rewarding u for a good game by taking points off the opposition. That is obviously not fair and hence why Uni needs to forfeit the win to the opposition. Hard lesson to learn, but im sure it won't be done again.

[Drusetta]

Nanstar - correct, the rules state over 17yo players can only go down one level.

I disagree that Team Sheets are needed all the same because of the reason that teams may drop Prems / Reserves players down several grades.
The rule is in place because of a few narrow minded people.
I re-iterate that if clubs really want to cheat, they will find a way (i.e. playing a Premier player under a different name in say Div 3).
From my experience it happens in all sports often enough.

Playing any further down is against the rules, granted. Frankly, I can't see the point. What? For the sake of winning a game in a social competition in little Adelaide! Please.
However, clubs can justifiably argue playing say a GK down two divisions because of its specialist position, in place of say a GK that is injured. Yet this is against the rules.
Also, an outfield player coming back from injury should be allowed to play in whatever grade will be suit their recovery. Yet this is against the rules.

If clubs / teams feel the need to drop players just to win games then I couldn't really care less.
This has happened to me as a player and as a coach in the past - you just need to put it in perspective.

Cheers

[nanstar]

Just because people may find other ways to cheat doesn't mean you remove the rules.

Also, ask anyone in one of these "social" divisions, they take their league seriously!

I also remember last year, goalkeepers were
allowed to go up and down more than one division (I know it happened between prems and div 1 last year). So I think there may be am exception there

[rain maker]

Correct me if I'm wrong , but it seems to me to be a MASSIVE reward to MUWFC to recieve 3 points for a game just because the person who filled in the opposition players card got a name wrong ( or missed one or whatever ).

No points for Uni - fair enough - rules are rules and they would be the same for any team in any div. ( as Uni already know )

But for Metro to have a 4-1 'Pumping' turned into a pretty vital 3 points , it takes them from 1 point after 2 games - to 4..

They shouldn't be rewarded for a player card error from Uni. Uni should be penalised , thats it.!

Uni should loose 3 points ( which they have ) Metro should not get them !!

IMO.

Uni played a player who wasn't eligible to play (ineligible in the sense she wasn't on the team sheet), hence the forfeit. The rule is longstanding and the penalty is appropriate. Think about the consequences of allowing teams to field ineligible players and only copping a slap on the wrist as a penalty.

The actual scoreline or even who played better is irrelevant. Whether MUWFC got pumped or not shouldn't come into it. If Uni had won the game 1 nil with an off-side goal that was given and scored by a player who was not eligible to play, how would your logic apply?


To answer your original statement though, to win a game, you obviously must outscore your opponent, but the other half of the equation is that you must outscore them within the rules of the game. Uni didn't meet this criteria, hence forfeit the victory.

The only people to blame here is Uni ... not the referee who apparently spotted the error, the Federation who applied the actual rule, or MUWFC who were the beneficiary of the error, and who most likely, would have much preferred to win in normal circumstances as its not their fault they are faced in this uncomfortable position of winning, but knowing they lost on the pitch.

Time to move on ... and a lesson to all clubs, particuarly at Prem level, to follow the rules of the game, simple as they are in this case.

I am not objecting to the fact that Uni broke a rule and should take greater care in the future, however, I do not see how this error can influence the result of the game...Probably because it can't. Losing 3 points for an innocent error and then subsequently handing them to the opposing team is, in my opinion, harsh. Had a player that was not named on the team sheet or was ineligible to play, played, then yes, this could have influenced the final result. I believe Uni should have been handed a warning and if such a mistake ever occurred again, then they should be adequately penalised.

[neits/burgo/shadow]

Correct me if I'm wrong , but it seems to me to be a MASSIVE reward to MUWFC to recieve 3 points for a game just because the person who filled in the opposition players card got a name wrong ( or missed one or whatever ).

No points for Uni - fair enough - rules are rules and they would be the same for any team in any div. ( as Uni already know )

But for Metro to have a 4-1 'Pumping' turned into a pretty vital 3 points , it takes them from 1 point after 2 games - to 4..

They shouldn't be rewarded for a player card error from Uni. Uni should be penalised , thats it.!

Uni should loose 3 points ( which they have ) Metro should not get them !!

IMO.

Uni played a player who wasn't eligible to play (ineligible in the sense she wasn't on the team sheet), hence the forfeit. The rule is longstanding and the penalty is appropriate. Think about the consequences of allowing teams to field ineligible players and only copping a slap on the wrist as a penalty.

The actual scoreline or even who played better is irrelevant. Whether MUWFC got pumped or not shouldn't come into it. If Uni had won the game 1 nil with an off-side goal that was given and scored by a player who was not eligible to play, how would your logic apply?


To answer your original statement though, to win a game, you obviously must outscore your opponent, but the other half of the equation is that you must outscore them within the rules of the game. Uni didn't meet this criteria, hence forfeit the victory.

The only people to blame here is Uni ... not the referee who apparently spotted the error, the Federation who applied the actual rule, or MUWFC who were the beneficiary of the error, and who most likely, would have much preferred to win in normal circumstances as its not their fault they are faced in this uncomfortable position of winning, but knowing they lost on the pitch.

Time to move on ... and a lesson to all clubs, particuarly at Prem level, to follow the rules of the game, simple as they are in this case.

I am not objecting to the fact that Uni broke a rule and should take greater care in the future, however, I do not see how this error can influence the result of the game...Probably because it can't. Losing 3 points for an innocent error and then subsequently handing them to the opposing team is, in my opinion, harsh. Had a player that was not named on the team sheet or was ineligible to play, played, then yes, this could have influenced the final result. I believe Uni should have been handed a warning and if such a mistake ever occurred again, then they should be adequately penalised.

So let's just give every team a "first" warning for any rule that is broken?? Now that is ridiculous. The rule and consequence has been given for this situation. I am sure Uni have taken it and moved on. But for you to say only a warning to be given? People need to learn to pay attention to detail, thats just a necessity in life. Stop the spoon feeding, making excuses so people can get off lightly, or else how will they learn? Remember - its not just about developing footballers/football leagues, but also developing people.

[pc9999]

I am not objecting to the fact that Uni broke a rule and should take greater care in the future, however, I do not see how this error can influence the result of the game...Probably because it can't. Losing 3 points for an innocent error and then subsequently handing them to the opposing team is, in my opinion, harsh. Had a player that was not named on the team sheet or was ineligible to play, played, then yes, this could have influenced the final result. I believe Uni should have been handed a warning and if such a mistake ever occurred again, then they should be adequately penalised.

I stand to be corrected but if we think about it. Traditionally the only way of knowing who was playing was the information on the Teamsheet.

This no doubt served several purposes
a) The validation of registered players in the squad, ie their eligibility being paramount.
b) a way of tracking game info, ie cards and scores
c) ensuring a valid number of players in the squad hence the fixed number of boxes to write in.
d) the number/player link was easier for the officials (they note the shirt number and then marry it up to the teamsheet)

Even with current technology it is a commitment from the club 'that it is all above board and we're not trying to diddle the system'. (They sign it with that intention)

The paramount point I think in all this is the accuracy of the teamsheet, no one can second guess intentions and unfortunate the error was it I think (and probably wrong terminology) breached 1 or more of the above technically invalidating it. Follow this up with the punitive action they FFSA (any federation) can impose on invalid teamsheet to address the POTENTIAL attempts at not being honest and honoring the spirit of the game they have to revert to a lowest common denominator and be consistent with any penalties imposed.

(lots of words to say this sorry)
but if Team A deliberately plays unregistered (or plays an unlisted player) (or illegal player) the penalty is appropriate
If Team A forgets to list a player or get's their name wrong then how is the FA supposed to know? they then revert to the stated rule to ensure the teamsheet is the canonical source of information it is the Club's statement saying we know what we put on here and we confirm it is 100% correct (read contracts) breaches of this result in consequences such as discussed.

From my perspective, I am confident it was an error, but from the FFSA perspective they have done everything as per the rules/regs they define them their hands are tied pretty much, and from the Clubs perspective it is a lesson learnt more care needs to be taken and then double checked to avoid these situations in the future.

Some interesting discussion in all this no doubt.
(I may raise some other questions relating to cup side of things in the cup thread but eligibility of players moving b/w res/prems/juniors is another interesting (if not contentious topic)

[snow white]

Correct me if I'm wrong , but it seems to me to be a MASSIVE reward to MUWFC to recieve 3 points for a game just because the person who filled in the opposition players card got a name wrong ( or missed one or whatever ).

No points for Uni - fair enough - rules are rules and they would be the same for any team in any div. ( as Uni already know )

But for Metro to have a 4-1 'Pumping' turned into a pretty vital 3 points , it takes them from 1 point after 2 games - to 4..

They shouldn't be rewarded for a player card error from Uni. Uni should be penalised , thats it.!

Uni should loose 3 points ( which they have ) Metro should not get them !!

IMO.

Uni played a player who wasn't eligible to play (ineligible in the sense she wasn't on the team sheet), hence the forfeit. The rule is longstanding and the penalty is appropriate. Think about the consequences of allowing teams to field ineligible players and only copping a slap on the wrist as a penalty.

The actual scoreline or even who played better is irrelevant. Whether MUWFC got pumped or not shouldn't come into it. If Uni had won the game 1 nil with an off-side goal that was given and scored by a player who was not eligible to play, how would your logic apply?


To answer your original statement though, to win a game, you obviously must outscore your opponent, but the other half of the equation is that you must outscore them within the rules of the game. Uni didn't meet this criteria, hence forfeit the victory.

The only people to blame here is Uni ... not the referee who apparently spotted the error, the Federation who applied the actual rule, or MUWFC who were the beneficiary of the error, and who most likely, would have much preferred to win in normal circumstances as its not their fault they are faced in this uncomfortable position of winning, but knowing they lost on the pitch.

Time to move on ... and a lesson to all clubs, particuarly at Prem level, to follow the rules of the game, simple as they are in this case.

I am not objecting to the fact that Uni broke a rule and should take greater care in the future, however, I do not see how this error can influence the result of the game...Probably because it can't. Losing 3 points for an innocent error and then subsequently handing them to the opposing team is, in my opinion, harsh. Had a player that was not named on the team sheet or was ineligible to play, played, then yes, this could have influenced the final result. I believe Uni should have been handed a warning and if such a mistake ever occurred again, then they should be adequately penalised.

I've got no doubt that it was an honest mistake that Uni initially made not including the name of the player, but as soon as that player wasn't listed on the team sheet, she wasn't ELIGIBLE to play. Apparently the player in question came on and scored and thats how the Ref noticed the mistake, so I dispute how you can argue that an ineligible player who came on and scored 'didn't influence the result of the game'. As noted in an earlier post, its impossible for the Federation to judge intent, so the rule is black and white.

By the way, I saw on the results email that Uni supplied the name of another player as a goal scorer, instead of the ineligible player. Can anyone explain this oversight?

[rain maker]

So let's just give every team a "first" warning for any rule that is broken?? Now that is ridiculous. The rule and consequence has been given for this situation. I am sure Uni have taken it and moved on. But for you to say only a warning to be given? People need to learn to pay attention to detail, thats just a necessity in life. Stop the spoon feeding, making excuses so people can get off lightly, or else how will they learn? Remember - its not just about developing footballers/football leagues, but also developing people.

Obviously for more serious scenarios, a warning is not adequate and the penalty should be implemented immediately. But for something that was an innocent error and had absolutely NO impact on the result of the game, I believe a warning should be granted. You may ask what constitutes an innocent error; well that is to the FFSA's discretion but in my opinion, it should be something that did not have any influence on the overall result. Which was the case for this situation.
No one is perfect which is why people make mistakes. Sometimes in life you forget to 'dot the i's and cross the t's' but to be punished for that so heavily is harsh. And yes, it is also about developing people but I am 100% confident that warning's are given all throughout society so why should this be any different?

Is it fair to punish all of the Uni players who obviously played well enough to secure the win for a mistake that was made by their manager, someone that cannot influence the team's performance on the field?

[snow white]

So let's just give every team a "first" warning for any rule that is broken?? Now that is ridiculous. The rule and consequence has been given for this situation. I am sure Uni have taken it and moved on. But for you to say only a warning to be given? People need to learn to pay attention to detail, thats just a necessity in life. Stop the spoon feeding, making excuses so people can get off lightly, or else how will they learn? Remember - its not just about developing footballers/football leagues, but also developing people.

Obviously for more serious scenarios, a warning is not adequate and the penalty should be implemented immediately. But for something that was an innocent error and had absolutely NO impact on the result of the game, I believe a warning should be granted. You may ask what constitutes an innocent error; well that is to the FFSA's discretion but in my opinion, it should be something that did not have any influence on the overall result. Which was the case for this situation.
No one is perfect which is why people make mistakes. Sometimes in life you forget to 'dot the i's and cross the t's' but to be punished for that so heavily is harsh. And yes, it is also about developing people but I am 100% confident that warning's are given all throughout society so why should this be any different?

Is it fair to punish all of the Uni players who obviously played well enough to secure the win for a mistake that was made by their manager, someone that cannot influence the team's performance on the field?

rainmaker, in this case we are not talking about a spelling error or typo, but that the player in question was totally missing from the match card.

You yourself wrote "Had a player that was not named on the team sheet or was ineligible to play, played, then yes, this could have influenced the final result."

This is exactly what occurred.

[gunners14]

Last year in the social division 4 league, PHU beat para hills east, cant quite remember the end score, something along the lines of 16 - 0.

Now before the match the team sheet was filled in and handed to the referee, after the end result and a day later we were stripped of our win, and 3 points were given against us for a mistake like adelaide uni, with two same names on our information sheet, one of the incorrect names were placed on the team sheet. It did put a scare for the season table for a while, but we had to move on.

No matter the division, rules are to be treated the same, so yes Adelaide Uni should recieve the same outcome as PHU, regardless of being in the high divisions or not.

[WHL_Girl]

With Adelaide Uni now sitting bottom of the Prems table after two losses/defeats/typing errors (delete whatever's not applicable), is it true that they have consigned the pre-printed 'Prems Champions 2012' T-shirts to the same recycle bin that last year's 'U17 Cup Final Winners' T-shirts were dispatched? Can anybody confirm?

[Caretaker Coach]

Lets move on.

[Lucas Leiva]

Lets move on.

+1

[abbie's keeper]

With Adelaide Uni now sitting bottom of the Prems table after two losses/defeats/typing errors (delete whatever's not applicable), is it true that they have consigned the pre-printed 'Prems Champions 2012' T-shirts to the same recycle bin that last year's 'U17 Cup Final Winners' T-shirts were dispatched? Can anybody confirm?